Jimellow

I'm 24, just graduated from college this month, and I intend to move out of this state (PA) in the not too distant future. I've been to Canada once while in high school (Toronto), and I unfortunately don't remember enough of the experience. I remember going to the science museum, downtown in the day, but was on a strict schedule as I was there on an orchestra trip.

My ideal places to move to include North Carolina, California, or Canada. The only thing preventing Canada from being #1 is the cold weather, as I tend to be a warm weather guy. Despite me remembering so little about my trip to Canada, I am intrigued by the notion that it has friendly people and is safer. Realistically, I don't currently live in a state of fear or anything, but it just seems like there are too many assholes in America, and Canada seems very refreshing to me.

I have no idea what part of Canada I'd like to move to specifically.. Are there any warm parts? I'd appreciate some feedback on recommend portions of Canada, as well as some supporting arguments for why that area is nice.

Moving to Canada would be a big step in my life, as I've lived at home, and continue to. I'm at the point where I am going to likely be starting a career, and I'd really prefer not doing it here in PA. I don't have any debt/loans, but I'd appreciate information on how much money you would recommend having before starting this move. How is the job market in Canada (or a specific part of Canada if you are recommending one)? I have a nice part time job currently, but if I move I will obviously be out of work and looking. My degree is a BA in English, so it likely won't play too large a role in what job I get, or am eligible for.

I'm not currently in a relationship or anything else that would bind me to PA, so I think it's a nice time for me to move and start life somewhere. It's really easy to write about doing this, and I've been talking about doing it since I started college, but to put the plan into action is a whole different story. If anyone has any comments, recommendations, or thoughts regarding Canada in general, I'd greatly appreciate it.

I really don't want to live in this same city, area, state, my entire life. It's a big world, and I already feel like this area, and to some extent the people around me, is getting "old" and tiring.

Also, how cold is it in Canada? Is it always cold, or do you have warm months? Basically, everything in Canada is a big draw for me, except the weather, as I definitely consider myself to be a big fan of warm/springish weather.

Is cost of living high in Canada? The factor that moved California down a few notches on my list of desirable places to live is the high cost of living, and seeing that iniitially I won't have much money, this could be a pretty big issue.

After reading that over, that is pretty much all I can think of in regards to questions I have about living in Canada. However, if you have anything to say, regardless of how related it is, I'd really appreciate it if you shared it.

I feel I am at a neat point in my life, as I am able to go wherever I want and start life there, I'd just prefer to make a good initial decision.

Thanks.

__________________
Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

mokle

The Okanagan Valley in southern British Columbia is great. Very mild winters (sometimes it doesn't even snow), dozens of orchards, vineyards, lakes, mountains, it's just beautiful.

What kind of career are you wanting?

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Mokle
"Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

highthief

That's the real question.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

jth

Well lets see, the thought of just packing up and moving to Canada is something that is going to have to take a lot of preperation and work. You are afterall considering moving to another country, you have to deal with immigration, taxes length of stay etc. If you want to move to Canada to work your best bet is to select a center and get hired for a job before you move thus making it a hell of a lot easier to get the proper documents (visa).

Canada is a huge country (2nd largest or maybe the largest, I am not up on my national demographics) and has a huge economy, it's one of the richest in the world and if you can think of any job, you can find it.

In terms of climate... much of the most populated areas of the country are not unlike midwestern US. The west coast is mild in the winters and warm in the summertime. The East cost has more extreme winters. Say on the East coast once November hits it drops to Freezing pretty much until April. The winters in British Columbia tend to not fall to freezing at all and hover around 40 degrees F. The Summers on the East can get up in the 90's.

I lived in Canada my entire life and was born there despite my profile saying I live in texas btw, i'm back home on th east coast now.

Mis-conceptions that Canada is some sort of of haven of safty and nice people isn't entirely accurate. Cities are rough in some parts, we have gun and drug violence in major centers like Toronto. However in more rural or smaller urban areas people are certainly nicer and more helpful then maybe the average north american.

There is lots of work in Canada, especially in cities lke Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver in any field. If you are looking for the big bucks, trying to get into the Oil industry in Alberta probably is the best way to go. Get yourself certified in the US by taking the training and then get yourself a job up there. Most Oil jobs are 21 days straight of hard work and then 21 days off with a huge paycheque.

Anyway, good luck with your decision. There is a lot to consider if you are very serious about moving here. I suggest you do some looking online at Canadian Immigration and see what you can and cannot do without a visa.

__________________
"A real leader faces the music, even if he doesn't like the tune." - unknown quote

percy

If I were in your shoes, I'd go west. Calgary Alberta is booming now and a great place to work immediately. British Columbia is great but a little expensive.

I've worked in a few places in Canada briefly (assignments or have travelled there frequently enough) and this is how I see things.

Charlottetown--Biggest city on PEI. Very quiet .

Halifax--Not a bad place but a little slow.Best to be transferred there if you want to live there rather than looking for work.

St.John--Quaint city in New Brunswick. Havent been in a while but pleasant.

Montreal--A great city in the midst of redefining herself. If you speak french that would be a bonus.

Ottawa--My current place of existence. Quiet city. Very clean. Unless you have a specialty or designation most jobs here require french and english to secure employment.It used to be only govt but now more and more the private sector is implementing those requirements

Toronto--Lived there for a couple of years. Probably my least favourite place in Canada. (Sorry Charlatan) Found it cold, unfriendly ,snobbish and hated it taking me over an hour and a quarter to drive 20 kms to work. Do travel there frequently on business but try to get in and out as fast as possible.Never thought I'd look forward to seeing the inside of Pearson as much as I do after my business is done.

Winnipeg--Truely a city with no identity. 2nd least favourite place.

Saskatoon--Havent been there in sometime but is a farming community that surrounds the city.Did hear though that the tech industry is picking up in relation to agriculture though.

Calgary-- Boomtown now. City is growing faster than ever. If I was in need of a job I spend some time there.

Edmonton--Like Calgary but not as much personality. A little rougher.

Vancouver--Big City. Expensive. Kind of like a place all unto its self.

Victoria--Retirement and homeless community.(apologies to those who inhabit there. Just seems evverytime I go to Victoria it looks like little TO with homeless folk around) Maybe just the day.

Jimellow

Thanks for the replies.

I am not sure what I want to do for employment, but something in a field related to English/Writing would be ideal. My indecisiveness regarding a career and a degree in English are not a good combination, as it leaves me uncertain about what I will end up doing for a career.

I appreciate the location-specific comments, as I've never been to the western part of Canada.

While moving is a big deal, I figure if I am going to start life outside of home anyway, it shouldn't matter where. I do know that I don't want to continue living here in PA in the long term, and am certainly willing to put forth the effort to relocate, even if it is to another country.

The move likely will not be something that occurs in the immediate future, as I tend to plan and overthink almost all decisions to make sure they will benefit my life, but it's certainly something on the horizon I am strongly considering.

If anyone has any other comments or recommendations, I definitely welcome them.

__________________
Desperation is no excuse for lowering one's standards.

james t kirk

I think a trip would be a way to start.

You could select a few cities to visit and go from there.

I could see Halifax, Montreal, Toronto, Vacouver as interesting places to start - obviously, Toronto, Vancouver and Montreal being large cities.

Quebec City is interesting to visit, but you'd better speak fluent French.

After that, take your pick.

I am biased towards Toronto as I live here, though I grew up in Hamilton (Canada's Pittsburgh). I moved to Toronto in the mid 90's and I couldn't see living anywhere else now. Unlike Percy, I find the people very friendly, though no-one bugs you so sometimes people mistake that for being cold. Toronto is a collection of neighbourhoods each with distinct feels to them. That's the beauty of the place in a lot of ways. You can be walking down the sidestreets in my neighbourhood and perfect strangers will say hi if you make eye contact with them.

The secret to Toronto is to live IN the city, and in the old part of the city on top of that. Not out in the burbs (it's awful out there). If you live in the 905 belt (the suburb area surrounding the city) you are making a HUGE mistake. (Sounds like Percy was commuting from Mississauga, or maybe Markham, or some other godforsaken suburb.)

For me, you need to live in the following areas in Toronto:

1. Annex
2. High Park
3. Riverdale
4. South Riverdale (reasonable cost)
5. Beaches
6. Forrest Hill (very expensive)
7. Rosedale (even more expensive)
8. Bloor West (where I live)
9. Parkdale / Roncessvailles (certain areas - less expensive, artist community)
10 North Toronto (Yonge and Lawrence) (expensive)
11. Parts of Cabbagetown
12. Parts of Leslieville / Queen Broadview village

Outside of those areas, there is little appeal for me. I'd sooner move back to Hamilton. Those areas probably make up about a quarter of the city, so that gives you an indication.

As to the weather, the weather in Toronto would probably be EXACTLY like the weather in Pa.

feelgood

FYI, if you're gonna consider moving to Calgary or around Calgary, better be prepared to go deep in your pockets for a new place. There isn't enough housing with everybody trying to get a piece of the hot economy, especially in Calgary.

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Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

percy

Yeah your right. Everyday from Burnamthorpe Rd and Highway 10. Although I did live just off of Royal York Rd. and Lakeshore Blvd. for a while.

I did like the action in TO though.Lots of concerts, goods restaurants etc and pretty safe for a big city. I don't know though, I've developed a bias I suppose.

Can't see myself living in TO again. Mind you Ottawa rolls up the streets at 6:00 pm here but at least I can leave my house at 7:15am, be in my office at 7:45am by bus,leave work at 4:00pm and be sipping a wine spritzer by 4:40pm (God that sounded so Toronto)

I guess it was the wasted time in the collector lanes or something that did it to me.

james t kirk

When I first moved away from the Hammer, I lived around Hwy 10 and Burnamthorpe as well. Townhouses off of Central Parkway.

It's godforsaken land out there for sure. Fortunately at the time, I was working around Sherway Gardens, so the commute was easy.

highthief

Depends on who you are. We live in Toronto and are moving to Newmarket this week. Had enough of this town. It's no place to raise kids.

I do like the Beach, however, just can't afford Beach real estate (nor much other real estate in anything resembling a desirable part of Toronto).

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

Charlatan

I agree with JTK's read on Toronto. It is all about the neighbourhoods.

I currently live in South Riverdale. I can walk my kids to school. I know my neighbours and chat with them on a regular basis (including many that I just see walking by on a regular basis). I can take the streetcar to work and be there in less than 30 minutes.

My kids, have three very large parks in walking distance not to mention that we can get to all of the major attractions very quickly.

I grew up in the suburbs (it is now one of the very bad parts of town) and it was hell.


Ottawa has a lot going for it. I've lived there as well and despite what percy say, there is a night life to be had there -- you just need to work to suss it out. It is a very beautiful city.


As for the cold... it isn't all that bad. The key is to dress for it and work with it. For example you can skate on the canal in Ottawa during the winter. You can go tobogganing, skiing, etc.


As others have said, it is more important to know what it is you want to do. With your degree you are pretty open. If I was you I would:

a) do some serious research on the cities in which you are interested
b) do some research into the job markets in each of those cities.
c) plan a visit to the one (or ones) that seem most promising
d) find a job before you come.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

james t kirk

Bah, I lived in Newmarket for 6 months. The dustiest place in Canada.

When I retire, I am going to move to Newmarket cause 2 years will seem like 20.

All joking aside, here are some interesting crime statistics for Canada. You will note that Toronto is well down the list.

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050721/d050721a.htm

Crime rates for selected offences by census metropolitan area
Homicide Robbery Break-ins Motor vehicle theft Total Criminal Code Offences
2004 rate* 2004 rate* 2004 rate* 2004 rate* 2004 rate* % change in rate 2003 to 2004*
CMAs with population of 500,000 and over
Winnipeg1 4.9 229 1,124 1,932 12,167 1.9
Vancouver 2.6 148 1,325 1,104 11,814 0.2
Edmonton 3.4 141 1,129 1,018 11,332 3.0
Montréal 1.7 150 894 663 8,173 2.7
Calgary 1.9 91 815 457 7,101 -3.2
Hamilton 1.3 88 680 540 5,764 -13.0
Ottawa2 1.1 84 578 316 5,663 -10.0
Quebec 0.8 59 783 277 4,997 -0.9
Toronto 1.8 103 449 325 4,699 -8.6


CMAs with population between 100,000 and 500,000
Regina 5.0 211 2,112 1,351 15,430 2.4
Saskatoon 3.3 209 1,797 590 13,767 -9.1
Abbotsford 4.4 97 1,390 1,529 13,252 -1.2
Victoria 1.5 76 935 336 10,309 -2.2
Halifax 2.4 161 957 540 9,924 5.0
Thunder Bay 0.0 85 865 323 9,226 8.2
Windsor 1.2 70 922 455 7,676 4.0
London 1.1 70 732 611 7,335 -3.0
Saint John 0.7 63 679 135 7,056 -8.3
Kingston 0.0 49 647 233 7,010 2.6
St. John's 0.6 50 1,149 325 6,787 4.2
St. Catharines–Niagara 1.6 63 737 354 6,222 -9.0
Greater Sudbury/Grand Sudbury 0.0 41 851 489 6,188 -4.7
Sherbrooke 0.0 49 855 526 6,094 -9.0
Gatineau3 0.4 59 928 304 5,909 -4.9
Kitchener 1.3 80 738 459 5,887 -0.2
Trois–Rivières 0.7 45 692 367 4,787 -9.9
Saguenay 1.3 18 542 337 4,079 -2.4
* Rates are calculated per 100,000 population.
1. Crime data from April to December 2004 for Winnipeg are estimates (except for homicide and motor vehicle theft) due to the implementation of a new records management system.
2. Ottawa refers to the Ontario part of the Ottawa–Gatineau CMA.
3. Gatineau refers to the Quebec part of the Ottawa–Gatineau CMA.

Leto

At the moment (since circa 1986) I live in the city (currently a near-Beaches neighbourhood, but prior to that Cabbagetown). I have also grown up in the burbs (specifically Agincourt - Scarborough, Weston - North York) and have lived in different cities (Barrie - cute, a great place to learn how to drink; Kingston: ditto; Vancouver - Kitsilano: a Beaches like area).

On the whole, I have to agree with JTK's assessment. Living in the city makes all the difference. I have 3 kids, and I would not subject them to suburban life now that I have experienced the richness of the community that I live in now. My oldest is 16, and there is no second guessing our decision.


As for the weather issue, The winters in Ontario can be very similar to Pennsylvania. I spent a year working in Pittsburgh, and found the climate to very similar to Toronto's.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

highthief

I grew up in Montreal, and lived much of my adult life in Toronto. I used to like it (i.e., when things like nightlife were important to me) but as a parent, I see little here but hugely overpriced property, and an increasingly divided community.

Where we are moving - brand new community centre, new school, extensive walking, running and hiking trails outside our door, many children my daughter's age to play with, and plenty of room to move around.

The house, which cost me $300,000 in Newmarket, would have cost me over $600,000 here. And, I work in North York, so the commute is easy.

It's a lifestyle choice - probably most young, single people would prefer the city, that's for sure.

__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum.

splck

Or, you could just move West and do away with the cold Yeah, yeah it can rain out here (depends where you live), but the flowers are up in March.


Seriously, how would one decided what area to move to in this country, it's so big and has so much to offer.

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nice line eh?

Charlatan

It was only a matter of time before the smug West chimed in about flowers in March...

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

splck

not smug, just truthful

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nice line eh?

Sticky

As for a career that you can work up in Canada in english in any of the major cities (including Montreal), have you thougth about Technical Writing(some job postings on Monster)?

Another major question aside from what do you want to do fro work is: What do you want to do for play? Maybe you are a Skier, maybe you like to party or love restaurants, or hunting and fishing.
What you want to do with your free time should be an important factor as well as the different cities in Canada are very different in these respects as well.

By the way, the winters in Toronto and Montreal will be very similar to Northern PA. Montreal and Toronto will be several degrees colder (in celcius maybe 10-15 degrees F?) and may get more snow but it won't be anything shocking. There are some cities in Canada that have a much milder winter and some that have a much more harsh winter. In general, among the major cities listed so far the ones with milder winters generally have a smaller variance between their coldest winter day and their warmest summer day than do the cities with the harsher winters. For example, Vancouver's coldest day in the winter will be warmer than Montreal's (or Toronto's for that matter) coldest day but Montreals hottest day in the summer will be hotter than Vancouvers hottest.

Not enough representation of Montreal:

Let's start with the cons
- While you can live with English only it is a real benefit to know French. If you don't know French you will not be able to take advantage of Montreal's full Potential. That said, however, French can be learned and improved especially if you are willing to use it. Also there are many English only people that love Montreal and would no think of living anywhere else.
- Employment: In general Montreal's employment scene is good. It however is no comparison to Toronto or Calgary (from what I hear about Calgary right now). I am not sure how it compares to Vancouver - it is probably less favorable than Vancouver).
- The taxes. Quebec is one of the highest taxed privinces overall (income and sales) although not that much different than Ontario.
- The Quebec separation issue that is always hanging over our heads. It is probably more the uncertainty that will likely always be there that is the worst part about it. This is one of the major reasons why cost of living has remained low in Montreal while Toronto has skyrocketed.
- The expos are gone
- I may have more to add later...


The Pros
- The women (if this is important - I can't talk about the men becuase I really don't pay attention to them). I don't care what you all think about the women in the cities where you come from (or live) but if you have spent time in Montreal (especially in the summer) then you know what I am talking about.
- Oh the summers. Summers in Montreal are amazing. The weather is spectacular, the Festival season (Jazz Festival, Comedy Festival, The Grand Prix, Food Festivals, film, fringe, take a look at this for more) like no other city.
- Food (Restaurants)
- Nightlife
- In city Suburbs (and other residential type areas). It is possible to live in a suburb that is a 10 minute drive from downtown with no traffice issues. There are the regular traffice issues if you commute from the suburbs outside the center of the city but nowhere near as bad as Toronto.
- Cost of living. Of the big three cities in Canada (Toronto, Montreal, Vancouver) Montreal's cost of living is significantly lower. This includes housing (buy or rent), recreaton, parking, oublic transportation...
- The Montreal Canadiens
- Proximity to U.S. Northeast. Montreal is within driving distance of Boston, New York and almost anywhere in PA.
- Proximity to Toronto (ys I am saying this). You can benefit from everything toronto has to offer by taking a 4.5 to 5 hour drive down the 401 without having to live there

This is all that I have come up with so far.
I am not trying to argue for Montreal, I am just trying to represent it so that you have more info.

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Sticky The Stickman

Leto

And this from a true bleu et blanc Torontonian: I love Montreal. I love the attitude there, from the cosmopolitan, laissez-faire atmosphere, to the way people drive. Yes believe it or not, the drivers in Montreal (in my experience) are not crazy. There seems to be an observance there of mutual respect, which is absent in Toronto. You can be flipped the finger 5 times in one block in Toronto, yet in MTL, people seem to expect and respect other driver's intentions. The culture of entitlement seems to be lacking there.

I've bunked out with friends in Ville d'Anjou, Pierrefonds, Point Claire and Ile Bizzard. All of these suburbs are within easy reach of the downtown core, at half the time of driving in from North York or Scarborough in Toronto.

Oh yes, the subterranean life: while the underground city in Montreal is smaller than in Toronto, it is more established and has less of a mall-like feeling.

I would definitely consider Montreal, especially if you want to try a new place for a while.

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Toaster126

I think a good question to find the answer to is "does Canada want you to immigrate?" There are criteria for who they decide can immigrate. I really don't remember how to find that information, though.

__________________
"The question isn't who is going to let me, it's who is going to stop me." (Ayn Rand)
"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Leto

this government link may help answer that question:

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

metalgeek

Housing prices have risen all to hell, but rentals are still reasonable, all things considering.
I'm currently paying 625$ + utilities for a relatively large 2 bdrm, around a 10-15 minute drive to downtown. (near the uni) Obviously rent here is more expensive than in say, Regina, but still usually cheaper than Vancouver or Toronto.. (for similar size, distance, and quality of community)

__________________
The truth is, wherever you choose to be, it's the wrong place.
Chuck Palahniuk , Diary

Temporary_User

I'm in calgary. Definately a city you want a car in. The winters are cold, but not too bad. I live DT, and have underground parking. It helps alot!

On moving to Canada, you do have to pass immigration. If that is a problem to you, I would consider thinking about moving to Seattle or Oregon. both cities are very similiar to Vancouver.
I've lived in Seattle for many years of my life and love it.

As one person above mentioned, what do you like to do for fun?

Calgary, has Mts. somewhat nearby. They are like a 1-2 hr drive. there really isnt many lakes nearby, although some true locals will try and argue that.

metalgeek

Hah, I'm a true local. (hell, my necks even currently red!!)
Thar ain't no water here
Yeah, I agree with the car statement, although if you live in a neighbourhood close to downtown, near a grocery store like I did, you can survive without one.. (I did for over a year)

The mountains here wold be to me one of the biggest draws. Calgary does have a scene, but you usually have to search it out, but it does exist.

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The truth is, wherever you choose to be, it's the wrong place.
Chuck Palahniuk , Diary

Charlatan

If you want to see living in downtown Calgary, rent the movie "waydowntown" for the suburbs of Calgary, check out "Kitchen Party".

Gary Burns knows his Calgary.

__________________
"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

feelgood

Blah, I'm the true local around here. There are some lakes here, just aint that many

But on a serious note, there is some decent lakes about 2-3 hours from Calgary (McGregor, Buffalo, Lousie, etc)

__________________
Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war