retg34

I saw this last night and have to agree with Kadath. It sucked. Where the hell was the editor on this movie. Did he fall asleep during the first half hour of the movie (like I almost did). What was the point of the 15 god damn minutes of sex scene (not to diss Carrie at all but I really would appreciate it if Keanu kept his cloths on at all times)/dancing tribal orgy. 2 minutes max is how long that scene should have lasted. And what the hell was up with Morph's speech. "Let them hear you", I thought the point of Zion was that the location was secret. You could have left that crap out as well as the utterly pointless chocolate cake aphrodesiac program. I think the cake should have killed her. I would have liked the character much better if he was an evil bastard and not just a sex starved renegade bit of poorly wrtten code. I spent most of the movie just wanting the characters to shut up because every thing they sad came out like they didn't understand what the hell they were saying and the other part going thinking "yeah, it's a cool fight scene, but if he can just fly away, why is he bothering."

Many people are going to say, "you just didn't get it." So let me just address that. Yes, I got it, I just didn't think it truly followed the thought process of the first one and the logic/theologic points they were trying to make were unconvincing and often times seemed flawed to me. I would have liked more rational for the social structure of Zion - or better yet don't show it at all (did they really need any of the scenes that took place there). I wanted character development of some kind. I wanted more of the twins even though they looked like Milli Vinilli dipped in flour(some back story, where these all just old agent programs or is there an occational "bug" that causes a program to go all homicidal - a great way to tie in the idea of serial killers, and other evil people as they exist in the Matrix, especially since the system knew it needed to create a non-utopia). I also felt that hey really didn't do a great job of timing. I want the militaristic characteristics of Trinity back, and I didn't believe the troubled chosen one act of Neo's one bit (and where the hell did they get grapes for crying out loud). And Tank died, yeah I got that, but how? Was there another battle? How long after the first movie is this one supposed to be? OK, I'm done, go ahead and rip into me. I'm just going to sit here in my disappointment and try to look forward to some sort of salvation in the third movie.

Bob Biter

SPOILERS (but who cares at this point?)







While I liked the plot twists and "middle-of-the-trilogy" feel Reloaded had, I was generally disappointed by the movie as a whole. Matrix, IMHO, was flawless. Of course, I might simply feel this way because the first flick was a totally new concept and had a nicely wrapped up ending, as was mentioned before, but some elements of Reloaded really detracted from my enjoyment:

1- The crappy "video-game" feel caused by excessive use of CGI: OK, so Neo tangles a shitload of Smith agents; obviously, we need some computer back-up here, but this was ridiculous to the point of being offensive. I really enjoyed the live-action fight scenes, with the light CGI touches for sudden movements and blocks and whatnot, but was an ENTIRELY computer-generated sequence really necessary? If so, couldn't they have made it better? If I were playing a game, I'd be sprating my shorts if it had graphics like that. However, this is a movie, so I expected much higher quality. Perhaps it would have been better if they kept the CGI-only stuff exclusively on the long distance angles, like the bird's eye view when Neo was knocking agents around with the lamp post.

2- 360 sequences: OK, we were all blown away when Neo dodged the bullets in Matrix while we got a nice slow-mo view at all angles in 1 fluid motion. However, in Revolutions, quite a few scenes used that technique, which cheapened it immensly. There is such a thing as "too much of a good thing."

3- Stereotypes: When I first heard Merovengian speak, I knew I was in for the pinnacle in stereotypical overload. They made him French. Now that they did that, why stop there? Let's make him an arrogant, mysoginistic, cowardly sex-hound. Let's make him the embodiment of everything most North Americans think of when presented with a French person. I bet that went over really well in theaters. Sure, being from Montreal, one might think I took it personally, but aside from language I have nothing in common with European French. I'm simply disappointed that they used an easy, unimaginative way to bring out an antagonist. I would still feel the same way if he had been German, English, Italian or whatever. My point is that there are other types of character development that would've been much better.

4- Trinity: There was almost no character progress with Trinity. Along with Neo and Morpheus, she is the core of the "good guys" and therefore could have used more details or progress. I sincerely hope we don't have another "(insert verb) this" in Revolutions, since I really find that gimmick tired. We had "Dodge this" in Matrix, which was poignant and very appropriate, then "Sample this" in Reloaded, which was part of an almost totally useless scene. Leave the recurring one-liners to Ahhnold, not her.

Of course, I did enjoy a number of things about the movie, such as the highway chase against traffic on a speed bike and the meeting with The Architect, but then you have the "rave" scene and the rather formulaic approach of the whole film... Anyway, I still can't wait for Revelations.

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denim

Game? Game?? What platform?


I thought most of the fight scenes lasted waaaay too long.

denim

Given that the thread is labeled "SPOILERS", I see no further reason to do so.

I'm fairly certain it's another Matrix. Given how Neo was able to handle the squiddies, I don't see how it can be otherwise. Also, how can The Architect be correct if it's otherwise? I think that's why Neo appears to be in a coma now. He's working it out.

The problem with a mythology like this one is that it can be nested arbitrarily deep. How many "realities" are needed? For that matter, how do you know we're not in a Matrix of some sort?

Yes. If they say that he can reprogram a human with himself, like a "Snow Crash" virus, that's one thing. If he morphs the human into his own looks... it's proof that the "reality" in this movie is another Matrix.

If the "super matrix" theory is true, then The One could be another program (like Deckter is another Replicant in "Bladerunner"). This would explain how The One and Zion came to be in the first place: the machines made them as a relief valve. I mean, you're going to tell me that humans somehow built Zion with all its support equipment w/o help? I dunno.... I don't think any of this is outside the Matrix, in one way or another.

After all, if you think you've freed yourself, you stop fighting. As I said, it's a relief valve.


Mine too.

Bonesaw

Good movie overall. Everyone here has posted some interesting theories. Smith as Bane hadn't occured to me until now reading through all of this. But do I really want to go see it a 2nd time so soon? NO. While the first one was fresh and exciting. Reloaded leaves too much on Neo being the one. Since he is the one he can just wave his pinky and eliminate all the baddies. Too much of let's put the good guys into a really sticky situation and see how long it takes for them to get out of it. I'm not saying I won't watch it again because this is definitely a movie that needs to be watched a 2nd or 3rd time to truly appreciate all of the philosophy that the "boys" put into it. Thank God that not all Hollywood movies are just action with minimal plot, but this one just did have the same threat that the 1st one had.

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Q. What is the difference between erotic and kinky?

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denim

One question I was left with is, why do the various Matrix denisons have their stigmata back? They spent a lot of time in the original movie showing them removing all the "access ports", other than the one on the back of the neck, from Neo, so why'd they all come back on all of them?

wondash

Here's my problem with the whole Matrix in Matrix theory; Why go to all the effort to program the second level Matrix? Others have stated that it would be necessary to control the humans who become aware of the first level Matrix. Wouldn't it be easier to just kill them (disconnect them and dump them into the drink). They've got millions of other humans working just fine. Delete the ones who aren't!

Of course, IF the whole concept of the machines, humans, batteries, matrix, etc. is all just a game for some higher level group, then all bets are off. But that would suck! The whole 'world inside a world inside a world' concept has been done before. Anyone remember a movie called The Thirteenth Floor?

denim

The "real world" could just be another part of the regular Matrix, too. An "If they want to think they broke out, put them here" kind of thing.

We don't know what they're actually getting from all this. We also don't know who "they" are.

Cynthetiq

I thought it was great. I don't have anymore to add than the people here have already done.

as far as the .torrent file... do a search for BitTorrent...

what I don't want to happen is at the end of Revolutions that he rolls over next to Trinity and says,"Woah....I had a wild dream..." (ala Bobby Ewing in Dallas circa 1970's)

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denim

If they do that, not only can they kiss off any further Matrix movies, they can kiss off their careers as movie makers. I doubt they'll do it.

Cuball

SPOILER ????? SPOILER ?????
just came to see it ... I found it overdone, fights are cool, but the second time it's like : OK another fight .. third time it's just boring ..

I didn't think about the concept matrix in a matrix, but it does make sense ... well we will see in the next one :-)

but I won't go back to watch this movie agian, just this once :-)

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Realizm

I watched it again.. may watch it.. again..



Some thoughts I had that seemed to be a bit conflicting.. in the scene where he is fight Meru's group, and he bleeds, Meru tells them he's just a man using the blood as an example.

Fast forward. Keymaker gets shot, bleeds. I thought Keymaker was a program, so why would he be bleeding?



Next.

I tried watching all the background scenes in the area with the Architect as it was showing past Neo stuff and seeing if any of the shots were of OUTSIDE the Matrix.. didn't see any.. but then again I couldn't pay attention to all the shots. Anyway, I tried looking out for it.. and will again.. If they show scenes from outside of the Matrix, well.. that would enforce the general concensus of Matrix within a Matrix.


There was something else I noticed but now I can't think of it.

Oh yeah, if these are UPGRADED Agents, how is Morpheus kicking so much ass This time versus sucking so much versus Smith?

I thought the sexual content within this second movie was a bit far out (or, not good). If they hadn't put in the Rave/Sex scene, I think this movie could have easily been PG-13. I know, who cares about ratings, but really.. the Sex stuff kind of... was totally not in the first one and so I didn't look forward to/want/like it. Although, the music during the rave was quite excellent.

KBilly

Morpheus almost lost the fight, but he got in a lot of good punches. I guess he might have been pumped up b/c he has the keymaker and he thinks he is very close to ending the war? Maybe Neo is an inspiration to him so he fights better? I dunno...

Bonesaw

From what I remember of that scene, the past life of Neo started with him as a boy. That wasn't in the original, however, if you watch the 2nd Rennaissance in the Animatrix there is a scene reminiscent of what is displayed on the screens behind the Architect, of a little boy and his family.

I like the fact that they have crossed the story line over into other media to enrich the universe they have created. I wish that I had an Xbox or PS2 so that I could play enter the Matrix.

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Q. What is the difference between erotic and kinky?

A. Erotic is using a feather... kinky is using the whole
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Halx

That was the baddest movie I have ever seen.

Period.

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Realizm

Bonesaw.. if you have a PC (assuming you must have a mac?) you could play ETM, too..


The other thing I remembered..r elated to Animatrix.. in the Animatrix, when the girl that delivered the package to the drop box gets disconnected ont he Ship, she disappears in the Matrix. When characters get disconnected (die) in the Movies... the characters die (and stay) in the Matrix.. as dead bodies..

^^^^CONFLICT

wondash

Good Point!

-Ever-

A few things-

I give it a 7 1/2 out of 10. It just didn't really challenge my mind. Sure the CG was good and the action scenes were amazing, but if I wanted action I'd see yet another Jackie Chan movie. I liked the original Matrix cause it changed my world. It was amazingly abstract with the white rabbit, Neo first realizing his world is fake, the white armory room, Morpheus sitting in the chair with a fisheye-type of lens being used...everything was just much more trippy. It almost seemed as if directors changed because Matrix 2 was "action scene, dialog, action scene, dialog, cheesy lame ass joke, action scene, another cheesy joke..." I was like WTF, if I wanted comedy I'd go see Dumb and Dumber. I think adding jokes (at least more than the first) and a exceedingly high ratio of action scenes to whatever else a director can do were both way too extensive. If someone told me that the theater would crack up in laughter more than 10 times in Matrix 2 (went on at least 30 by the end), I would have waited for it to come out on video even though I've been waiting day in and day out for the movie. Just seemed like the directors were going after the wrong things IMO.
Beyond this, onto the story line. Someone said earlier that neo stopping the sentinals could have been actually done by the Nebacanezzer (sp...) because he too was knocked down. Well Trinity was standing right there and didn't fall so scratch that idea. I think that there is for sure some kind of second matrix going on.
Quick background question: Was Matrix 2 written before, during, or after the making or release of part 1?
All in all, I enjoyed the movie and look foreward to seeing it again, as well as seeing part 3. However I think the excess of jokes was absolutely depressing, as were Gimli's in LOTR Twin Towers. I just felt kind of unintelligent while watching it, realizing that the directors aimed their movie towards such an easily-thrown crowd

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--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

Bonesaw

I hate playing games designed for a Platform that is also ported for a PC. To me the games just don't play the same.

I will consider it though.

__________________
Q. What is the difference between erotic and kinky?

A. Erotic is using a feather... kinky is using the whole
chicken.

Realizm

It was in my eyes that they were ported to Console.. not the other way around..

Cuball

well there is worse, but The Matrix (1) was much much better that's for sure

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John Henry

My friend just tried to download it from Kazaa and claims he got some Dutch porno instead.

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Cuball

haha some of my friends tried downloading it also, they got 101 Dalmatiers, and some fetish pr0n video :-)


so so funny :-) just go watch in the cinema

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FuddMan

SPOILER

I think Ratbastid has a point. While I may be missing some plot detail, I do remember Agent Smith leaving the Matrix in Neo's dream. Neo could simply be seeing the future again just as he saw Trinity being shot, which could still allow Bane's actions to follow the plot correctly. Suppose Bane was never infected. Suppose he is simply a normal human who just so happens to be particularly evil. Neo's dream might show that subconciously Neo knows this, but for this to be true, Neo must have had spent some time with Bane. This might be cleared up in other Animtrix shorts or even the game. Neo's dream might just show that Bane isn't infected until Revolutions. He is still dangerous though, since for Neo to dream about such a terrible thing happening, he must be all kinds of crazy. This could even be the reason Smith chooses to infect him. I'm probably way off...

Realizm

Bane said "We'll be seeing you." That makes me think of "Me and the other Smiths"




Moving over into the real world? Aside from the whole matrix in a matrix answer to it, it seems to me it would be possible to imprint himself onto the human consciousness, as it's what is actually playing as a digitized form in the Matrix.

Bonesaw

Neo's dream though only ever centered around Trinity and her death. As long as Bane isn't directly responsible for Trinity dying, would Neo be able to dream about him being the bad guy on the inside?

Realizm I'll look into the PC version. If the game is meant to be played on a game pad and doesn't play well with a keyboard and mouse then I'd rather play it on a platform. I'm so used to playing shooters with keyboard and mouse that to try and play a game any other way is difficult to get used to (all the extra buttons to accidentally push). When I play stuff on a platform and there are fewer buttons to push I have less difficulty in playing. I guess I'm just weird that way.

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Q. What is the difference between erotic and kinky?

A. Erotic is using a feather... kinky is using the whole
chicken.

Lasereth

Me and a friend were debating Reloaded the night before last, and after seeing it twice each now, we have come to the conclusion of why some viewers disliked it after the first viewing. In the first Matrix, the audience was presented with characters that were only known in the ship Nebuchadnezzar and in the Matrix. That's it. Hell, all other life besides those main characters (and the agents) simply didn't exist in the plot in the first Matrix. This resulted in the main characters being very close to relate to and very easy to analyze.

Now, on to the part where people find Reloaded disappointing: Reloaded is nothing like the first Matrix. After seeing the trailers and tv spots for Reloaded, we all imagined that the characters portrayed in the first Matrix would be shown in the same manner in Reloaded. Wrong. The Wachowski Brothers managed to fit an intricately detailed plot into Reloaded, all the while constructing amazing action scenes that were stylish and well-directed in between. When we see Neo and Trinity in Zion, it just doesn't seem right. Why? Because we are used to seeing them in the grungy-ass Nebuchadnezzar or fighting in the Matrix. The real killer was seeing OTHER people in the Matrix and in Zion besides our beloved main characters from the first one. Simply enough, Reloaded had a different feel and atmosphere than the first one. Anytime we saw an event in Reloaded, we tried to compare it to the first one. We tried to fit the main characters from the first Matrix into their molds we expected them to play; it just didn't work in Reloaded. Why? Because this movie is smarter, wiser, and philosophically loaded. Reloaded is much more complex, thrusting it into the "epic" status. Those that want a repeat of the Matrix need to go watch that movie again, because it's not going to happen. The first Matrix was written like a videogame; Reloaded was written like a novel. Matrix Reloaded is simply a better movie than the first one. Die hard fans will be pissed about this, mainly the ones that wanted action and nothing else. Suck it up, Reloaded is better in every aspect. If you want action, go watch a Chuck Norris movie. Or better yet, go see the doomed Terminator 3. If you are going in to Reloaded expecting to be reminded of the first one, then you will be disappointed. If you go in to see Reloaded with an open mind, believing that it can be different and BETTER than the first one, then you'll love it. Just as Morpheus was quoted saying in the first Matrix..."Free your mind."

-Lasereth

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-Ever-

Pretty cool ideas. I'm still not into the movie as much as I'd like to be, but I dig the idea that the change of characters played a big part in peoples dissapointment.

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--Acknowledge your weaknesses--

brandon11983

Sure is a good thing the bike had gas in it, huh?

I have a bad feeling about Revolutions. Either Neo isn't as great as they all think he is, or he is waaaaay better than anyone ever thought. The theories about having 2 matrices do make sense.

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holtmate

All right...I saw it twice, and have been playing Enter the Matrix too. Obviously, I loved it. Great action, and definitely left you wanting more.
My theory on the whole multiple matrices idea...I think that when Smith was "destroyed" by Neo, he left a little of himself in Smith, which helped Smith become a "virus". And, when Smith tried to infect Neo, he left a little of himself in Neo. So those two are connected. That's why Neo jumped when Bane returned to Zion after being infected. And, Link even had trouble recognizing Neo's code after he leaves the chateau. So he's been changing. Maybe, since he is "The One" he can just do this...he might still be a program, but he's got some humanity in him, and he's learning.
Just my two cents.

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Shokan

Excellent movie, and this thread has made me think alot of the movie.

My only problem is the rave/sex scene. I think it went on way too long. But then I got thinking about that. After Morpheus' speech, everyone is enflamed with passion. They are all partying, having fun and really enjoying themselves. Being passionate. You can see that in the way they move (jumping around, wavin they hands like they just dont care ). Maybe it supposed to emphasize the passion and love shared between Trinity and Neo.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

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AsianRage

How else would they have been able to move the bike up to the platforms?

AsianRage

After the first movie, people wanted more. In Reloaded, we got more. Alot more. You can't expect much more than the quality being presented in the movie. Spiderman had similar use of CGI and they didn't fare any better than Reloaded. And FYI, the Burly Brawl sequence wasn't completely CGI.

One might consider the fact that the Merovingian had researched all aspects about the French culture and picked out what he liked the most about it. And he was both arrogant AND cowardly. hmmmm. He was referred to twice as being "once like" NEO. I doubt if he is as much of a coward as you think.

[quote]
4- Trinity: There was almost no character progress with Trinity. Along with Neo and Morpheus, she is the core of the "good guys" and therefore could have used more details or progress. I sincerely hope we don't have another "(insert verb) this" in Revolutions, since I really find that gimmick tired. We had "Dodge this" in Matrix, which was poignant and very appropriate, then "Sample this" in Reloaded, which was part of an almost totally useless scene. Leave the recurring one-liners to Ahhnold, not her.
[quote]
Come on, tired gimmick? "* this" was only used one time in each movie. And in this case, the expression was used to illustrate her growing offended nature at Persephone's offer.

Formulaic. If formulaic, means that they made it in to a love story and told it entirely in flashback, with Neo dreaming about the possible fate of Trinity, and spending the rest of the movie reaching that point..... then sure.

AsianRage

The nature of the Reloaded didn't require the same earth sahttering approach that was taken in the first film. I thought that the jokes and lighter moments made it more enjoyable. This was a different movie than the first one. A slightly different approach was taken to accomodate the new storyline.

The Nebuchanezza exploded before the sentinels came. I think it the was ship that remained that sent out the EMP. The Matrix has always been considered a part of a bigger story. The only question after the first one was made was whether it would make enough money to warrant a sequel to tell the remaining story.

AsianRage

Here's my revision

AND

Realizm

While I thought the sex content was a bit far out, I think the comedy that was inserted into the movie was just over the top.

The people in the theater laughed several times during the two times I went to watch and it just detached from the mood of the movie some. Matrix just didn't look like it was supposed to ever be comedic to me.

oldtimer

I skipped down the lenghty reviews just to post mine.
First of all, the movie was not confusing. If you pay attention you will understand it. If you did not see the first don't bother watching the second. Why? Simply because you're not a true fan. Who is the Oracle? Who is Tank? Who is Agent Smith? That's mainly why.

To add to the "answer" of what really happened in the Matrix. I will go with this. To disect this we must go to the first movie. The children who were being taught to "accept" the program or become an anomaly had a bald headed child who I remember could bend spoons with his mind (maybe more). Now in Reloaded he sends Neo the spoon as if he will understand why. Is it a gift or maybe something more? I'm not going to look too deep into that. Another thing in the first, was that after Neo jumped inside Agent Smith they swapped data. Being that Neo already being the "One" merged some of that data into Smith while Smith might have also gave Neo some "system" or "matrix" data that allows him to do what he can do. Ex: Flying, but it may not be limited to only that. Now at the fight scene with a lot of Smith's we learn that he is no longer a part of the system. Instead he is some kind of rogue program removed from the matrix and maybe the only reason he fights Neo is for a personal vendetta. Adding to that idea, another agent (the new agent, just with a different face) stumbles onto the fight as an chinese lady holding grocery bags. Smith immediately turns him into an Smith. Why? Maybe he is more of a virus or plague and would like to be the only agent.

As we see, the two different kinds of Agents never work together. So indeed Smith may be an asset to Revolutions. But, what happened to the Smith who "dialed out"? (used the phone to get to the real world) Now obviously someone will say that since he is a code or program he can not fuse with the human brain but how can we rule this out after seeing Neo carry his hairstyle back and forth through the Matrix. It could have just been that they didn't want to bother with all that mess of "bald" then "full head of hair". But remember this is the Matrix, it is not limited to our way of thinking. So the man with the weird goatee should in fact be Agent smith. Why was he cutting his hands? He never experienced feeling before or for that matter, even seen blood (coming out from himself). And the knife? To end the battle between Zion and the Matrix by killing the One.

Will everyone die, including the Matrix and Zion because of Neo's choice? Hell no! You see the Source explains that there have been 6 anomalies therefore 6 "One's", so if they all chose the door to the salvation of Zion then they picked 27 females, 17 children and 7 males (so kill me if it's not exact, I don't remember) to start Zion over. Because what reason would the Source have to lie? To avoid death? No. He already explained that there were levels of living they, the machines, were willing to accept. So Neo did in fact make the right choice by choosing to save Trinity because I assume no "One" before him attempted to do so (choose the door back to the Matrix). For this change, you have to expect an opposite outcome. The end of the Matrix.

Earlier where Secretmethod said that it could be another Matrix? True, but why would they go as that far to confuse us. It stops somewhere. But it was on 500 mini Tv's (I'm sure someone will sit down pause their dvd version and count every single tv) and when Neo's thoughts were shown every monitor had a different response so that does mean there are more matrixes? Not really, because the monitor only showed expected responses as "Bullshit" or "Fuck you!" whenever the hero is told the truth. One stands out and speaks. So the other monitors were not really showing seperate worlds or more Matrix's nor Neo's true feelings. I'll leave this one open many answers.

And I've seen a lot of people bitching about the sex scene, the talking, the CGI, everything.....

1. It was something different so sue them. Good speech some people bitched about the "let them hear us" part. People who are not yet ready to cope with death do not understand this. If you are not afraid who cares if they hear you. Their approaching anyway and the only reason they haven't already come is because they can't drill through some iron-ore.

2. The Talking- Fuck the movie for having any kind of a story or plot. If you ask me it was better than all the damn fighting put together. They EXPLAIN the MATRIX to us! More or less. so this was definently a good story not just a action thriller made for wannabe white boys who run around screaming "I am Neo". It's just a movie no one will ever possess that kind of power.

3.CGI- One guy up there said it better than I could. About how it being required for redefining the blocks and tiny but noticeable attacks. But in the highway scene it was just full blown fake. Neo grabbing Morpheus and the Keymaker and dragging them up upwards like two rag dolls which was only saved by the token black guy's "YES!!!" I can't expect perfection this is no Animatrix (although it should have been) or Final Fantasy. There are many parts in which the fighting angered me. Bad choreography and boring fight sequences God forbid Neo should be hit. I accept what Warner Bros. has thrown at us and do so with a smile. Because if were put into their situation, Could you do better? HELL no. Before you bitch remember the time and effort that was put into the film. I close my argument here.

Quoting chinese guy: "I protect that which is most important." (or something to that effect) Is it the Oracle? or something deeper?

And the weirdest thing is that me and one other poster above have one thing we share. During the movie I had about 3 to 4 wide eyed moments where I accepted information that blew my mind or where I put the "pieces of the puzzle" together, so to speak. But during one of those moments, maybe it was all the green, I said to myself. This is like the 13th floor! Yet I have never seen the movie!!!!! The only bit I remember is from a preview of it where green surrounds all these "business type clients" and some ball explodes or something like that. I think something subliminal is going on. Don't be surprised if you see an ad for "The 13th floor" anytime soon on sale or something.
"I have more to add that's what the edit button is for."

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Shokan

http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm

Thats a good article about the religious overtones of the Matrix. Well worth the read.

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Legalize it.

hotzot

7 out of 10, I gave the original 8 out of 10

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The Bully Boys are here!

rogue49

My reply from BoCo's thread