JoeyB

Although NBC has ordered another 2 seasons of episodes of the Emmy winning series The West Wing, Creator Aaron Sorkin and director Thomas Schlamme have announced that this season will be their last.

Both are well-respected....even Sorkin is praised for his work, despite his personal problems, including a drug arrest last year.


So....does the show survive the departure of two talented, influential men?

Yes, the show has a great cast, but without the right words and the right shots, will anyone care?

Has the show already peaked and this is just the first of many departures?

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gov135

West Wing, unfortunately, has peaked.

I don't watch to much television other than sports but this show has captivated me from the start. And its the writing that does it. Its so smart - but not over your head smart - that you need to sometimes think for a second to get the bigger point the writer is offering.

Sorkin was the show. Unlike others where a team of writers write a script a week, he wrote everything, everyone else just edited, etc. He will be sorely missed. Its a great shame that egos had to get in the way. This show is a great outlet for Sorkin, who has a great mind for this stuff. Supposedly, and if your a fan you know all about this, Sorkin had trouble delivering scripts on time. This is why West Wing has alot of trouble keeping an audience, its only new a few times a month.

It will be different from now on. And someone gets kidnapped in the next episode? I don't know. Too much drama for me, not enough of the witty tongues and smart plots that made the show so great.

Show is guarenteed through this season and the next. After that, NBC may not renew.

MahlerIsGod

The Wing used to be the highlight of my week. BUt I am always disappointed recently. I think my incredibly high expectations cannot be meet and I will always be let down. Personally, I think the show has definitely jumped the shark. IMHO.

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lucidity

I'd like to revive this thread in honour of CJ's secret that came out last week. An affair with the ex-VP? Please.

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frankgrimes

Sadly, i concur. The show aint what it used to be. The cast is still great but what they say and do just isn't as interesting any more. Sorkin was the life of the West Wing...

mystmarimatt

Yeah, i watched avidly the last few seasons, but they're running out of material, and this season just hasn't been up to par. Although tonight's was cool, just because I totally love Elmo.

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lucidity

I didn't see last night's episode. Someone throw me a bone!?

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Kadath

It is going downhll. Watching the reruns on Bravo serves to clearly indicate that fact. That doesn't mean there's no chance it can come back; I'm just not overly hopeful.

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Xenomorph

It made sense in the Clinton era, before 9-11, Iraq, and all of the events that have come to dominate the political scene since the show's beginning.

Sorkin said himself that the show is now in la-la land. Democrats no longer control the White House. Yasser Arafat is no longer the most pertinent name among rogue leaders...so on, so forth, I think the show is on a downhill slide.

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diergray

This season has been pretty poor so far. I don't like the camera angles at all and everyone is so grumpy. It was much better when Toby was the only grumpy one.

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Dingo2879

Did anyone watch last nights episode? C.J. is to be the new White House Chief of Staff? I have watched this show since the beginning, and I have seen the decline ever since Sorkin left, but this a huge plot turn that does not make a whole lot of sense. Leo picks her over Josh? Josh is supposed to be his #2 man.... Are we to believe that this high ranking position is to be filled by the former Press Secretary? This blew me away last night, and I'm not sure if I can watch this show anymore. Don't get me wrong, I like CJ's character, but the leap from press secretary to Chief of Staff is so unrealistic that I've about had it with this down spiraling show.

diergray

I agree that it was strange that he picked CJ over Josh, though they have been making Josh act like a buffoon lately. Did you watch next weeks preview? It doesn't look like Toby takes it too well. Do you think Will Bailey will become the new press secretary?

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DDDDave

Big WW fan here too...

Josh is not COS material. He has become almost a loose cannon. Toby? definitely not.
Obviously, they tried to imply that Will was going to get it (secret mtg. w/POTUS and all), then they sprung CJ on us in the preview.
I still think that Will wil end up with the job. As that one reporter said , 'He can manage up.' That is a very hard skill to master.

I don't know, maybe CJ takes the job and then turns it down.

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maleficent

The show has definitely jumped the shark this season -- I've spent the weekend watching the season 3 DVDs (the commentary is superb) you can see a huge difference in the writing... and it's a shame...

CJ as chief of Staff? I'd love to know the justification behind it...

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MovieNut

I have to agree, this fifth season is just terrible. There's so much wrong with this show it's hard to put a finger on all of it. Josh's character seems all wrong. There's too much conflict between characters. Now they want to bring in two actors that don't belong, like Jimmy Smits and Alan Alda? I might be able to stomach Alda, but not Smits. Puh-lease.

I know NBC will never do it, but they need to bring back Sorkin and Schlamme. That said, it's almost unbearable to watch. How sad.

C'mon, give us back Sorkin and Schlamme.

Silly studio is killing the show. How long will it be before they screw up Law and Order?

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I like these calm little moments before the storm. It reminds me of Beethoven. Can you hear it? It's like when you put your head to the grass and you can hear the growin' and you can hear the insects. Do you like Beethoven ?

guthmund

Have you seen the Farina episodes? I've only managed to watch a few as they are so unbelievably hard to sit through. Though to be honest, I really only watched because I enjoy Orbach and Watterson, now with half of that tandem gone....well.

Oops, we were talking about the West Wing, weren't we?

I don't know. It seems like CJ would be the odd choice, but I've never really liked Josh all that much and Toby would be a horrible choice.

I think this new season is decidedly better than last season. However, last season was a complete disaster, so, really anything better would be a step up. I'll give it a few more episodes before I pass judgement.

Ask Sorkin and Schlamme back and at least the writing would be better. If they wanted to make my day, they'd ask Rob Lowe to come back as well. After all, Dr. Vegas is cancelled, no?

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Daval

I quite liked last nights episode. I was kinda suprised at the choice of CJ as the new head of staff, and thought during the episode that it could be a short lived promotion, but she seems to be finding her groove. I think she could work out well, and it could lead to all kinds of interplay with her being the boss of her former co-workers.

I thought Toby's press conferance at the start was hillarious, as was the fake resignations

I've really only watched West Wing for the last 2 years or so, and have seen a bunch of older episodes on the repeat channels, but I am still quite addicted to it nonetheless, the storylines at times could be stronger, but I still think its one of the best shows on TV and I look forward to my Wednesday night fix.

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inharmony

I have only watched west wing briefly and I really like it even though at times I have trouble following along. I didn't use to care for CJ, but after last nights episode I really like her. I especially liked her moment of bitch putting the head of d.o.d. in his place And I agree with you Daval, Toby's press conference was funny. I thought the interviewing of a potential person to fill CJ's position was quite funny as well.

I plan on watching much more of this show. I'm hooked

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maleficent

Last nights episode was one of the better episodes of season 5... The first few seasons the writing was sharp, and crisp, and now it just has lost it's focus.

The line about CJ hitting them with her purse was priceless...

The Smits character has some interest - -but it depends on what they do with it... The dialog between him and Josh was interesting, I almost felt like they were setting Josh up for a new series or a contiuation of this series when Bartlett's term is over... having him run for office somewhere...

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Daval

I got that impression as well. Will be interesting to see where this leads.

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guthmund

I felt that they were setting the Smits character up....

What really struck me was the look on Josh's face as Smits was leaving. It reminded me of the episode where he goes to see Bartlett speak at some local VFW thing and realizes that Bartlett is a "good man" and decides to join the campaign.

Maybe I read too much into it. I was decidely pleased with last night's episode. The writing is still not there, but the storyline was pretty good. If that means anything.

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rabblerouser

I agree that the writing has not been nearly as good Sorkin left. The dialougue doesn't seem to flow like it used to and I feel the writers don't have a thorough understanding of where they are headed.

I miss the days of Sorkin and Seborn. My favorite example of the awesome writing was the episode in which after starting at the White House, Ainsley Hayes gets the cold shoulder from the senior staff, especially Sam. However, when a dead plant and a note that only says "Bitch" on it turns up on her desk, Sam rushes over and schools the offenders by writing your fired on a piece of paper and says something to the effect of "When I have something to say, I have the courage of signing my name to it". Just a truly well developed episode and insight onto these characters.

That right there is what is missing. The stories are good, but I really don't care for the characters in the same way I once did.

Kadath

I was really surprised to find out that Sorkin more or less wrote the eps on the fly. The President's MS was written in just to bring up the fact that Abby was a doctor, and then they ran with it.
I haven't watched any of this season, but things were definitely floundering a bit from what I saw last season.

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maleficent

So the show has really fallen off this season... there have been a few moments of the show it once was.... Tonite's season finale was one of those moments...

Santo's speech at the DNC was pretty good -- some of Well's best writing this season.... and never saw Leo as the VP nominee coming... Excellent... I love his charachter..

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guthmund

Really???

I certainly liked the Santos/Josh storyline this season, but Leo as the VP nominee seemed like such a cop out. The whole season finale, which I thought was pretty good, kept building and building to this monumental moment and then.....meh?

Does anyone know if Schiff is going to be back next year? Toby has always been one of my favorite characters. I'd hate to see him go.

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rabblerouser

I agree. This episode was a good one. Bartlett meeting with the education union leader seemed stright out of the Godfather. It made me laugh!

I have to admit the FBI investigation of the seemed a little flat. I even forgot that it wasn't resolved untill writing this so, for me=, not much of a cliff hanger.

Willravel

I bought seasons 1-3 on DVD and I'm enjoying them thoroughly. I find the show smart, liberal and preachy, just like me! I'll admit that Martin Sheen has always been hit and miss with me, but he keeps hitting it out of the park with the President Bartlet character. When he owned the shit out of that right wing radio show host at the beginning of season 2, I almost shit myself I was so happy. The assassination attempt on Charlie and Zoe and Josh was hit, I again almost shit myself. Each character is rich and entertaining. Not only that, but I actually found myself liking Rob Lowe, despite my murder/suicide blood oath to destroy the Brat Pack. Bradley "Billy Madison" Whitford is honestly funny. Ainsley Hayes is hot, and yet somehow is able to come off as a smart Republican.

Someone told me that John Goodman was in the show. I can't wait.

spindles

Well, not in the DVDs you just bought. He comes in at the end of season 4.

The Oz TV station that originally bought the rights to this (way back when), played a couple of episodes in prime time then shifted this to a ridiculously late time slot before cutting it altogether in season 3 or 4. It has recently been bought by the ABC (government owned TV station), who played seasons 4-7 in double episodes (i.e. two episodes back to back each week). This is when I became a fan - I have just borrowed seasons 2-5 from a mate and have been watching these (which leaves me season 1 unseen).

I agree with a lot of the comments above - the earlier seasons are certainly wittier. The further in the programme went, the more serious it became. I wonder how much of this was driven a bit by current affairs when the episodes were made...

I think Alan Alda's character and his interaction with Smits was good, though I do wonder whether the Republicans would choose such a moderate candidate...

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