Halx

Honestly I've never seen a movie after A Clockwork Orange that incorporated raw sexuality and intriguing plot. I'm dying to see a movie that not only excites me sexually, but involves me mentally. Hell, the only movies like this anymore are foreign and never make it to the states.

WHAT IF porn evolved. WHAT IF intercourse had it's place in the movies? WHAT IF pure nudity and arrousal was involved in the plots, instead of just a side attraction to draw in viewers?

Imagine the intensity movies could make us feel!

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Sparky

Are you talking porn level of sex/nudity or like Mulholland Drive?

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warrrreagl

Wouldn't it have something to do with the Rating System? I would guess that producers have to edit out enough of the explicit sex to keep it down to an R rating, and by then the sex isn't sexy anymore.

And I remember "Clockwork Orange" having an X rating when it first came out.

How did "9-and-a-half Weeks" make you feel?

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Halx

Sparky, Porn-level sex is cheesey because it's all low budget. Imagine hollywood budget sex! It could take on a whole nother level of erotic!

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monkeydriven

Watch foreign or indie films, many will have explicit, but not exploitive nudity. And the story's are usually good and involving.

Ex. Intimacy, Sex and Lucia, Killing Me Softly

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Mr.Deflok

Mulholand Drive and Eyes Wide Shut used it quite well I reckon.

JoeyB

Halx,

I generally agree with what you said, but what about Monster's Ball? I enjoyed that movie and the sex was (at least) more graphic than in most movies.

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Spinach_Indeed

Velvet Goldmine is one of my favorites, and incompanies explicit sexuality and nudity.

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Halx

But was there any hard cock in these movies?

There are little bits of sex that are left out in movies... all they ever show are breasts.

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JoeyB

Oh, I see!

I didn't realize how explicit you wanted to go. With that in mind, Monster's Ball might as well be Monsters Inc.

It would be incredibly entertaining and shocking if hard core would ever make a mainstream movie, but I don't see it happening soon.

The X rating or even NC-17 (does that still exist) means box office disaster. The shock value needs to be worth a few coins, or else it's not going to happen.

If there ever was a time to do it, the John Holmes movie coming out this summer would be the right opportunity!!!

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Halx

Yep, I'm talking about VERY explicit sex. I'm talking about Mulholland Drive, but with real carpet licking. Boogie Nights with real cock.

I'm talking about a movie about nudists, bondage, prostitution. Think of all the new plotlines that can be followed if more explicit shit was allowed!

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maximusveritas

In the end, movies will only get enough of a budget to be good if they can turn that budget into profits.

Its true that sex sells, but usually only when its T&A.

Seeing a hard cock on screen makes most people uncomfortable,. There may be a double standard, but its a standard enforced by our society. Similarily, "nudists, bondage, prostitution" also make most people uncomfortable.

prettypinkfiary

maybe it;s 'cause the MPAA is too busy shoveing their heads up their own butts to consider that the whole world might not fall appart if we were all _watching_ other peoples butts on screen. I do agree that budget has a great deal to do with it but that's not the whole problem

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l_o_c

Romance (http://us.imdb.com/Title?0194314) features brief hardcore acts of explicit sexuality, erect male nudity, spread female nudity, bondage, etc, and lots of other stuff, and I'd say it's interesting, and maybe even very good. It's not a great film, but it's interesting. Those looking to be titillated need not apply, but for those that dig arty foreign films, and want to see if a mainstream movie can contain a money shot, check it out.

Baise Moi is also supposed to feature hardcore sex, but I've not seen that.

Halx, rent Romance.

Quadraton

This goes with the old Sex in Films vs Sex in Movies debate.

Sex in a film is always the end of a woman's agonizing journey of self-discovery, and liberation from the shackles of a harsh and cruel society.

Sex in a movie is because the actress needs $100 to buy a bag of crack.

Okay, a little cynical, but it's almost true, and unfortunately, Hollywood is in the business of making movies. They want to make something they know will sell, and if that means taking the next floozy broad they come across, and putting her naked on the screen, then that's what they will do. It costs too much to hire someone to come up with a good story line, and in the end, they don't really care.

It's sad, but if you want a more fulfilling experience, you're most likely going to have to go with foreign or Independent films. These people are usually more interested in telling a story.

(BTW Halx, your new Avatar is very creepy, and even now, it still kind of bugs me out).

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BBtB

I second that.

You know what I would like to see? A GOOD show that was sort of a combination sitcom and porn. You know, not any more sex in it then typical sitcom now. Just actully show the sex.

warrrreagl

How about semen? Has there been a non-X film that showed semen? "Something About Mary" only showed the result of semen in the hair, but didn't show the actual semen.

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Mr. Mojo

It was on his ear - that's where she got it from to put in her hair. Or do you mean you didn't see the ejaculation?

Some porn movies have pretty high quality, Vivid makes some nice stuff now, thank you Kazaa… But its no where near Hollywood type stuff.

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aus5tin

Last Tango In Paris...as bad as Brando wanted to be.
Get the European cut. Great Movie, it's the study of sex as pathology.

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l_o_c

Like I said, Romance has a very brief ejaculate shot. Real semen. It's not rated, but I'm going to assume by 'X' you mean pornographic.

Zotz

Its been years since I've seen it, but I remember Caligula having a lot of sex, nudity, and orgies. It was a good story but had some pretty gruesome and disturbing scenes in it.

yangwar

Every once in a while I see a great thread that I wish I could contribute to put I simply have little to say. Thanks to all for making this place so great.

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GSRIDER

Caligula was made by Penthouse... it was suppossed to be high brow porn I believe.

Nothing like seeing Malcolm McDowell fisting a bride to be.... precious.... of course he gave the groom the same treatment.

Damn i believe a DVD purchase is in order.

Mr. Mojo

<a target=new href="http://us.imdb.com/Trivia?0080491"><b>Trivia for Caligula</b></a>

Disappointed at the lack of nudity in the final cut, producer Bob Guccione included extra footage of models taking off their clothes.

Writer Gore Vidal did not want credit for his work.

Peter O'Toole and John Gielgud claimed to have been unaware hardcore sex footage was being shot for the film.


in the movie <a target=new href=""><b>Irréversible</b></a> with Monica Bellucci, theres a 9 minute rape scene. Newsweek stated that this was the most walked out of movie of the year.

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PredeconInferno

Halx, when you make this movie, I will watch it. Until then you have my support... and by support I mean that I think it's a good idea. So really, you don't have any support from me at all. Unless it's for ideas, in which case I give you support. But other than ideas, there is no support, especially monitary support.

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440sixpack

Mmmmmmmmm, we can dream.

zfleebin

Halx: I would have to agree with you. All the movies nowadays are based around attraction and inevitably sex but when they get to the sex its like you see em make out, bust out a titty and then fade to the next morning. I think it would be a good challenge for the actors/actresses to actually show their sexiness in some other way than how they are dressed. Tastefully done porn is a dime in a dozen and it lacks the emotion of a hollywood film. I think someone should remake some drama/romantic movies and put some dick in em. It would be great, my girlfriend could enjoy the heartfelt attraction and I could enjoy the moment the guy bends her over and gives her the business. Good idea

Sun Tzu

Was Caligula too out there for you Halx?

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greytone

When a movie of high quality with good actors that happens to have a X-rating can be widely released and people won't be afraid to be seen going in public; that is when you will see big studio porn. It is simply a business decision.

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WildZero

There's a french film titled Baise-Moi that you might like.

A porn actress and a prostitute end up going on a killing spree...kind of like Thelma and Louise, but about a million times cooler. The story comes first, but there are some very explicit nudity and sex scenes.

Another you might like is the original Cafe Flesh. Yes, it's a porno, but it's also a sci-fi movie and an art film all rolled up into one...a really enjoyable movie on a lot of different levels.

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Bonesaw

The worst case of Sexplotation in a Hollywood produced film IMHO is in Desperado. There is a great story line of a man trying to get revenge and because Selma Blair is in it there has to be nudity. The staging of it was even horrible. The couple are embrased, hands running over each other's bodies and then she turns to face the camera so that he can remove her bra and grope her tits. Why couldn't he have done that while she was facing him? Because Hollywood was filming it and that is why Desperado is nowhere near as good as El Mariachi!

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hilbert25

I believe you mean Salma Hayek. And I'll take her nudity when I can get it, thank you very much.

Have you actually seen El Mariachi? Really? It's fantastic for a $20k movie, but when compared to something with a real budget, effects, and actors it's sorely lacking.

But on to topic, what about something like Requiem for a dream, granted it was faked, but it did involve Jennifer Connelly's character getting penetrated anally by a double ended dildo. I can't imagine getting an actress to do that for real, but it wasn't especially necessary as the scene did get the point across.

Sion

Halx, I do believe that someday your dream will come true. But that day is probably at least another 10 r 20 years down the road. As I see it, what it will take is just one big name actress to be willing to cross that line. Also, a DAMNED good story will have to be the vehicle. Something that even people who hate porno can watch and say "yes, it was explicit sex, but it was such a good/important story".

This is something I have thought about before. And while I agree with whoever said that and X or NC17 rating usually spells box office doom, I think that in the right situation, it could make such a movie a blockbuster.

Consider: take a big name actess with a good reputation, such as a Nicole Kidman, or a Meg Ryan or a Helen Hunt. combine her with a great story that just so happens to involve explicit sex. make and release that movie and the lines will go around the block for days on end. The big problem though is this: how many really good stories can you think of that require explicit sex to tell the story. That is the problem with most porn and with sex on film in general. The act(s) of sex are mostly pretty dull in terms of advancing a plot. Basically, it comes down to this: do you really NEED to see penetration in order to understand (with regard to telling the story) that it took place?

dont get me wrong, I'd love to see explicit sex go mainstream. but as it would be a rare story that actually required it to be properly told, and as few producers, actors/actesses, and directors actually have enough balls to even attempt it, I dont see it happening soon.

and thats a bummer, big time. coz I'd LOVE to see Salma Hayek getting her turd cutter reamed out by say, Sean Michaels or Lex, followed by a big sloppy facial, of course.

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Cuball

I don't think films like that should get main stream ...

I saw Baise-Moi, it's really disugsting imo ... i'll stick to the soft erotic scenes, more than enough to me, i'll leave the rest to my fantasy :-)

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Bonesaw

I did mean Salma Hayek. Bad typo on my part....although Selma Blair naked would be nice too.

I think my issue with El Mariachi vs. Desperado is that you can tell a Hollywood film from a movie that was done by someone who was truly passionate about making his movie. The difference to me is that the actors in El Mariachi (while not the greatest) gave the best performances they could putting their heart and souls into making the best movie they could. With Desperado you have actors making a big chunk of change (when at least compared to the actors of El Marichi) who just show up on the set after the crew had done everything so they weren't as emotionally tied to the movie to make sure that the project was completed.

I guess my biggest gripe is that with Hollywood films, bigger doesn't always mean better. And in the case of Desperado, Hollywood's influence can truly be felt by the prescene of a sex scene that 1) is staged poorly and 2) isn't necessary to move the plot along.

To get back to the actual topic of this thread I would suggest to anyone who wants to watch a movie that has explicit sex and a fairly plausible story line that makes sex the motiviation for each scene, to check out Suggestive Behavior from Vivid Video.

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l_o_c

Ironically, that scene, according to the makers interviewed for Bravo, was for the international release. They wouldn't have gotten the film made without it, since they could advertise it in Latin and European countries.

Bonesaw

That is interesting. Bravo is a great channel. I miss cable tv.

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l_o_c

Now, sex scenes (and nudity) of an R rated caliber aren't welcome since it keeps the valuable 16 and below crowd away. The last film that I can think of that actually advertised it's shallow nudity (aside from The Real Cancun) was Swordfish. The big push on that was that you could see Halle Berry's breasts.

Now, most films get edited to get a PG-13 instead of the opposite. I would complain, but the films that are editing to get a PG-13 aren't films I'd have been interested in in any form.

reverendjay

Note to Bonesaw before getting to Halx's query: Robert Rodriguez was involved in both movies, crafting 'El Mariachi' by hand, and directing 'Desperado' as it's Hollywood-esque sequel/remake. Both movies succeed in their own ways, but you are right, you cannot compare one to the other without finding deficits in both.

Halx,

My friends and I have had this discussion many a time, and it always comes down to this... Would you still be able to believe she's a Nuclear Physicist after she takes the dick out of her mouth? Or after she's done screaming the Lead Character's name? IMO the best (almost) use of Graphic Sex was in American Psycho. Granted, Bret Easton Ellis had far different intentions for that scene, but it still served to illustrate the relative 'inhumanity' of Christian Bale's character. I think that until a story/script is written where a graphic sex scene can be used to vividly expose some facet of the lead character's personality or motivation, that you will not see graphic sex in a mainstream movie. The only other way I could see it happening would be an abuse/rape/deflowering scene which effectively transitions the character to the opposite spectrum of their personality. For instance the quasi-rape of Julia Roberts by her husband in 'Sleeping with the Enemy'.

I just can't picture a plot where any graphic sex scene could serve any other purpose. Of course, I've been wrong before, and I wouldn't really mind being wrong now... But that's my $.02, for what it's worth.

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Podmore

The answer is simple: like most things in the movie industry, it comes down to dollars. Movies with explicit sex get an NC-17 rating, which many theaters won't show and which can't be advertised in many papers and such. Studios won't make NC-17 movies that they think might have a wide audience appeal. The movies that have the potential to be big have to be R rated or less. So the NC-17 movies that get made are either small, independent films or ones that are really cheap and the studios think might hit some nitch market enough to make money.

Actually, <i>Matrix Reloaded</> is a really good thing for us. The studios stopped making big budget R rated movies for a while because it cuts out young teens, who are the big movie goers. It doing well will probably mean more big R rated movies.