dirtyrascal7

I guess I missed where you talked about that earlier in the thread. Thanks for clarifying again... I definitely agree with your thinking.

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ratbastid

I avoided this thread until I'd seen the movie, which I've just done. I'm not doing spoiler tags--anyone who doesn't want to be spoiled shouldn't be in here. If you don't want to be spoiled, quit reading this post NOW.

Regarding the "did Joker set up Dent's fall" question: I think that's answered for us by Joker himself at Harvey's bedside. He's not a schemer. He'll set up scenarios like the ferries, but big, elaborate setups aren't his gig. The most complex we got in the movie was allowing himself to get caught so he could get into police HQ. The simultaneous triple-murder of the comissioner, the judge, and the DA took planning for sure, but it was a one-step deal. Anything longer than that, and he's an improviser, highly skilled at turning the current circumstances to his own advantage. He's a few steps ahead of everyone else, but he hasn't usually set things up, which is what lets Batman get him every time. And he certainly couldn't have foreseen Dent's injury, which is a critical part of turning him. In Two-Face cannon, he's burned by acid thrown by Sal Maroni after a decisive win against him in the courtroom, and it's the pain of his injury and the torment of his disfigurement that turns him into a villain. They motivated it a bit better than simple vanity in the film, but the pain from his burns is certainly part of his descent.

The "Bat Voice" bothered me. He needed to get Lucius to work up some Bat Cough Drops or some Bat Lemon Tea or something.

I'll differ from the popular position and say I thought the sonar thing was super cool. Also, if I ever wreck my car, I want it to dump me out of it in a motorcycle version of itself. Bad ass.

Here's what broke my brain the whole movie: Gotham is Chicago. Looks like Chicago. Feels like Chicago. Scattered with Chicago landmarks. The buildings from the cover of the Wilco album Yankee Hotel Foxtrot are visible in the background out Wayne's penthouse windows. Hell, the hotel I stayed at last weekend was just barely out of frame in a couple shots. Yet every street address they spoke was a Manhattan address. Dent was hidden way up on the upper West side, and Rachel was out in Brooklyn. But, you know, Brooklyn, Chicago.

Where IS Gotham supposed to be? I always assumed it was meant to be NYC. Also, Gotham got reset back to current times, after the last movie. Gotham was all steampunk-futuristic last time around, and although we have story continuity, the city itself has regressed.

Willravel

Gotham is supposed to be NYC-esque, with islands and such, but I'm not sure if Nolan's Gotham is on an ocean or just by large rivers. Gotham-Chicago took some getting used to for me, but I don't think about it anymore. It's just Gotham.

I think Joker wanted it to be Batman's fall, but settled for Dent to hurt Batman.

MSD

The comics sort of had a back story, like the movie did, where he makes it up as he goes.


She wasn't looking her best, and camera angles can only do so much to hide the fact that she was either more or less pregnant every few scenes.

sloindahed

You guys should listen to this great interview with screenwriter Jonah Nolan on writing TDK. It gives great insight to the story and just gives the film that much more depth.

They also discuss Harvey/Two-Face's fate (whether he died or not) although it's to note that Nolan doesn't really confirm his death and is very ambiguous about it.

Creative Screenwriting interview with Jonah Nolan (mp3): http://media.libsyn.com/media/creati...nightQandA.mp3

Derwood

Am I the only one who like Holmes better than Gyllenhal? I didn't buy (at all) that Maggie was a lifelong friend of Bruce. She was also very cold in her scene with Alfred.
-----Added 26/7/2008 at 01 : 50 : 03-----
I was also sorta bothered by the fact that Gotham went from Chicago+CGI to just Chicago. All the new buildings/islands were gone, the multi-level el train system was gone. Seemed like a strange change in aesthetic

Charlatan

I finally saw this last night...

I agree with Ratbastid that Joker didn't plan on Dent's downfall. It was just something that happened along the way that he was able to capitalize upon.

I also like to think that Dent is dead. The reason being that Dent *was* a very stand up guy. He did the right thing. I find it hard to believe that his lapse into the mind set of Two Face would last. Eventually, he would come to his senses and regret his actions. Dying as he did, without the opportunity of remorse is all the more tragic. More tragic = more better.

I also agree that killing Rachel was essential to the larger story arch (i.e. beyond this film). Batman should not have romantic attachments. It's much better that he has one that died, perhaps because of his actions, so to better drive him forward. Romantic attachments do not allow him to do what needs to be done.

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FoolThemAll

More than that, I didn't really have much of a problem with Holmes in Begins. Yeah, there were a couple scenes that even I recognized as bad acting ("your father would be ashamed" comes to mind), but mostly I though she had a good demeanor for a childhood friend of the dark knight and prosecutor for the dark city.

Gyllenhal was waaaay too bubbly and cheerful.

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evilbeefchan

Saw it Sunday night, 10:10 Imax. AMAZING!! Especially the beginning wide shot of the city, almost gave me vertigo.

I hate to be cheesy and describe TDK as being "grittier, darker," etc, but it really is. I kept forgetting it was a PG-13 movie, which is a GOOD thing. I felt Ledger outshined everyone else. The complexity of the character, critiquing and criticizing humanity through that big smile of his, just made this movie so much more. And a master of slight-of-hand, too!
What I loved about TDK was that it did't try to make Batman cool. Yes, they gave him new gadgets, new suit, awesome wings etc. For me, every superhero movie has banked on everybody wanting to be that hero. By the end of TDK, you honestly feel like this is a burden for one man, and all the crazy gizmos won't make it better. Spidey may have said "This is my destiny, this is my curse..." but you really feel that in TDK. The ending speech summed up the character of Batman perfectly.

Halx

I was mostly bothered by the PG-13 editing. The movie itself was great, but the quick cuts to avoid showing gore were SO obvious.

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Frosstbyte

I can't wait for the DVD to come out so we can see what it looked like without those cuts, because, yeah, that was pretty fucking stupid.

telekinetic

I have a picture from a cinematography magazine showing a burning pile of money with a burning body on top of it. That footage exists, and will 100% be released in an 'uncut directors edition'

Also, the amount of practical effects done in this movie blew my mind. The semi truck flip was done full scale with a stunt driver

Most of the "batman stares into the city and ponders it from the top of a tall building" shots were actually done with Christian Bale standing on top of a tower.

They actually blew up Spoiler: a candy factory dolled up to look like a hospital

speshul-k

Finally, got back from seeing this in a full house too.
This movie is just exceeding so many expectations its amazing and a fitting testament to everyone who has been involved in bringing all of this together.
I've always been disappointed with what I look apon as the Hollywood machine which exists only to fill seats and make more money.
Yet, sitting through this film you could see the passion and carefully crafted work that has gone into this fine piece of work.

While, some minor things like the 'BATVOICE' did seem a little unnecessary, they far outweigh everything that is good in this movie.

Heath Ledger's performance without a doubt will go down in the annuals of memorable characters ever played. I could go on about this topic but everyone here seems to have alot of the angles already covered too.

*Nikki*

I noticed the quick cuts also, but my take on why they did that is different. A lot of the quick cuts involved The Joker. I am thinking maybe Heath died before they got all the footage how they really wanted it to be.

Also I think that Maggie is way too unattractive to play the love interest of two very powerful men. She does very poorly in close up shots of her pig nose.

MSD

At this point, do we really need spoilers anymore? If you haven't seen it, why are your reading this thread?


I want to go on record as saying I'm 100% sure that Two-face isn't dead.
It seemed to me that her death showed him how dangerous it could be to fall in love in the same way that the end of Casino Royale showed Bond that trusting anyone would be his downfall.
I personally thought that avoiding anything too violent or gory would have taken away from the movie. I'll be interested to see the director's cut and how different it would have been, but I doubt it will add to the movie rather than take away from the plot.

abaya

I had the same thought... but I found the parallels to be a bit too close, especially for two movies that came out with a few years of each other. For a movie that struck so many chords of originality and complexity (and I did love it), I thought they might have come up with something a tiny bit less cliched for that bit.

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Xazy

I just saw the movie last night, was wondering what other movie or show had Spoiler: Where the hostages were dressed like the captors and the captors pretending to be hostages. I know I saw this somewhere else.

Great movie and like others said, should have been R rated.

abaya

It also reminded me a little too much of The Departed (with all the good guy/bad guy switcharoos), but of course The Dark Knight was a far superior movie.

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