Willravel

I'm finally watching Lost. In a few short days I've gotten through seasons 1 & 2 (watching Live Together, Die Alone Part 1 now). I'll probably be caught up by late this week. I've also downloaded the podcasts, which I'll be listening to after I've seen the appropriate episode.

I'll be joining you all soon....

mixedmedia

I caught up with this season this past weekend and while I find the show to be addictively watchable, I also find it to be maddeningly convoluted. They have to be making this stuff up as they go along.

And it makes me want to pull my hair out when people won't share information with the group or with the people who obviously need to have it. And when they do, like, stupid things. I find myself talking to the tv a lot: 'Tell him, you jerk!" 'Don't go out there, you idiot!,' 'What the hell are you doing now?!' I feel like I'm coaching a pack of deaf pinheads. If they'd just do what I say, they wouldn't be in all this mess.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

ratbastid

Negative. They're working inside a VERY carefully planned out story arc--the executive producers have said that especially since they made their agreement with ABC about how many more episodes they're making and how they lay out over the coming seasons, they've got the next 2.5 seasons plotted out nearly episode by episode. They were always working inside an overall plan, but now that plan is very specific and detailed.

mixedmedia

yeah-huh

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Troublebot

I'm gonna put all that on the shoulders of my man, Brian K. Vaughn. He's written some great comic series, most notably "Y:The Last Man" and "Ex Machina." Not only are they interesting to read, but they have a story arc, both a beginning and an END. Y just wrapped up and Machina is going to soon (both of which make me very sad).

Anyway, the show seemed to be floundering a bit until they hired him. Then within a month or two, they announced how the next few seasons would be set up and that there would be a ending date... something which I don't think they had ever mentioned before.

Ok, it's probably not all his idea, but he's a great writer and I'd imagine he had something to do with all the awesomeness we're seeing now.

__________________
Howard Moon: The wind is my only friend.
Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

ratbastid

WOW, I had no idea they brought Vaughn in. That's a BRILLIANT choice. Y is the best graphic novel series I've EVER read, and that's saying something. They guy's an American Alan Moore, but hipper and less gratuitously erudite.

I know I'm dragging out the inevitable to say it, but... Y ain't over yet! Vol 10 isn't out until June!

Troublebot

Yeah, I read the trade paperbacks too, which is why I'm craving some Machina right now. And some Walking Dead.

I love Alan Moore, but I think you hit the nail right on the head with that one. Imagine if he started working on Lost!

__________________
Howard Moon: The wind is my only friend.
Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

ratbastid

Love me some Walking Dead.

Oh, man. We'd have Victorian literary figures dropping randomly onto the island. The island would be the Shining Lands! And... Ben would be Jack the Ripper! And... Locke would have a Rorschach mask! And... Instead of imploding the hatch, Des would have blown up Parliament!

In all, it's a good thing it's Vaughn and not Moore.

Troublebot

Yes, but Kate could wear the Silk Spectre outfit, what's wrong with that?

Ok, now I'm geeking myself out.

__________________
Howard Moon: The wind is my only friend.
Wind: [whistling] I hate you.

ratbastid

You have a point, sir. Also, instead of a helicopter, they'd be flying Archie out to the freighter.

Somehow I think Jack would make a good Night Owl.

You and me both. Notice how everybody else on this thread has shut up?

Grancey

Also, the lot number for the journal at the auction was the same number that Farraday told Desmond to set the oscillator.

__________________
Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

Fremen

I went to Google Silk Spectre and found this:

http://www.canmag.com/nw/9130-malin-akerman-watchmen

__________________
Google

fresnelly

Which are also from Hurley's Lottery numbers etc...

4, 8, 15, 16, 23 42

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

Grasshopper Green

So...someone explain something to me. We know 5 of the Oceanic 6...Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid..and who? Aaron? I'm confused.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

radioguy

i was wondering if ben is considered part of the six. i know he wasn't on the plane, but we know he's off the island.

Willravel

I doubt Ben is one. He wasn't on the flight, and also his nemesis, Penny's dad, would know of his existence. Aaron may be considered one of the six, which means there's one left. If he doesn't count, Michael and Dwight may have made it back. I mean they've been boating for quite some time.

Sayid has apparently turned into James Bond.

Grasshopper Green

I thought that too...but he wouldn't be on the airplane manifest (maybe he took a dead person's name). They'd have to explain him somehow.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

Yeah, somehow I don't think Ben would let himself rise to the level of celebrity that the Six are at. Not with Old Man Widmore on his butt. So, is Sayid killing Widmore's people?

I loved the Locke/Ben scene in the basement in New Locktonia. "They are going to be sooo mad when they realize you still don't have a plan." "Do you have a plan?" "Oh, I always have a plan."

fresnelly

My hunch is that the last of the six is either Sun or Jin. I just don't see them still together by the end of the series, and if not on the island, then back to Korea away from the spotlight.

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

yellowmac

I think so. Based on the information from the most recent episode, where Widmore is revealed to be the one masterminding/financing the attempt to get onto the island, Ben/Sayid team up to help protect everyone that's left on the island by going to war against Widmore's agents. Makes sense to me.

Another thing, I have a feeling the BOTH Jin and Sun are the last of the remaining Oceanic 6, and that Aaron doesn't count. Just a gut feeling.

ratbastid

What makes you guys think Jinn and Sun are going to be rescued? I haven't seen anything yet to hint at that, and I can't say I share your gut feeling...

Let's see who the candidates are for #6, assuming they actually had to be ON the plane:

Sun
Jinn
Claire (although I doubt it because she'd have kept Aaron)
Locke
Sawyer
Michael
Walt
Rose
Bernard
One of the random background players that the writers refer to as "Socks" (just like your socks, you need them, and they're there in the drawer, but you don't pay much attention to them)

Of all of those, the biggest potential for storytelling drama comes from Locke being rescued. Maybe against his will, maybe as some sort of deal to protect the island or the other survivors, he's returned to his home and his wheelchair and his job at the box company as a noble martyr to the preservation of the island...

I suspect that Penny's coming for Des, and that she'll sneak him off the island separately.

Grasshopper Green

The only reason I would assume this is because of the teaser for next episode. However, I think it would be Sun that got off, not Jinn, and certainly not both of them.


This would tie up the funeral, seeing as how the first letters of the obit seemed to be "Jo". And why no one showed up to the funeral.

Isn't he already on Daddy Widmore's boat? Would he return to the island, or does she rescue him from the ship?

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

Ah. I never watch the teasers--not as a matter of policy, I just hit "stop" on my DVR when the last "LOST" card comes up. This week's episode is named "Ji Yeon", so it's clearly a Jinn/Sun episode.

Doesn't need to be soon. We've got like 30 more episodes. I imagine that Des and Sayid will go back to the island before too long. I'm just predicting we'll see a Daddy/Penny showdown over Des before the end.

fresnelly

Good calls. Would Locke count if he was DOA? If not, then we could have Locke +1.

__________________
Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

yellowmac

Quick thoughts upon just having watched "Ji Yeon'...

1. Oh, those clever, sneaky producers. I really should have picked up on the fact that both a flashback and flashforward were being shown in this episode. I picked up on the "year of the dragon" remark but went off on the tangent that somehow Jin and Sun were either back in 2000 or in the future in 2012. i should have known better... Plus, there's the fact that no one recognized Jin as someone from the plane.

2. I wonder how Jin will die ... I mean, he's gotta be dead from the way Sun's character is acting at the graveyard (i.e. it's not like he's still on the island or something), but with the tombstone's date being the date of the crash, I wonder what sort of shenanigans are at play.

3. So it's implied that Ben has the resources to stage a fictional plane crash, I'm assuming in order to prevent anyone from stumbling upon the island as they look for the flight.

4. Geez Juliet, way to be a total bitch telling Sun about the affair. So now he knows that his wife cheated on him, and he's gonna die before he gets to see his daughter. Sad.

Willravel

Jin Nooooo!!!!

Frosstbyte

I think it's FAR more likely that Jin is alive and on the island. I think that monument is a tribute to him designed to reinforce the story they're all telling rather than him actually being dead.

I'm kind of frustrated that they basically wasted our time to trick us, though. Lost, certainly, loves its plot twists, but I never remember them actively spending time on some which has no purpose other than to create a twist. We learned NOTHING about Sun or Jin or the greater mythology from seeing his flashback. Its sole purpose was to make us think he was coming to meet with Sun and then to pull the rug out from under us. Unless the vagaries of my memory have resulted in me simply forgetting, but I really don't think they've done something like that before. It's annoying, but whatever.

As much as I love Jin and Sun and as nice as it was to finally see all 6 of the Oceanic folks to get back, I think next week's episode will be fantastic.

Grasshopper Green

I concur. Since they were married and he didn't make it back...it would look suspicious if Sun didn't have some sort of funeral/memorial for him.

I caught on to the fact that Jin was a flashback pretty quickly.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

Agreed.

Regarding Michael on the boat: I WAS RIGHT! I WAS RIGHT! HA HA ON EVERYONE WHO'S NOT MEEEE!

But it turns out y'all's gut hunch about Sun being rescued was right, in spite of my skepticism.

I didn't twig to the different-era flashing until the very end. I did think that Jinn looked awfully spry in his flash-whenever, but I figured it was just a matter of having a shower and a decent suit. I didn't realize until the end that they had younged him up in the makeup chair. I found the final scene with Hurley to be very powerful.

What do you make of the captain? Don't trust him? So far, everything he's said checks out against what we know but Sayid and Des don't...

yellowmac

I disagree. Perhaps I am taking what I see too much at face value, but the way Sun's character acted at the graveyard, it just seemed too authentic for it to mean anything else other than Jin actually being dead. I just don't think it's plausible that she would act that way at the graveyard if deep down she knew that he was still alive on the island.

So in my opinion, it's more likely that Jin dies sometime soon, before the Oceanic Six get rescued, and the date of the plane crash is there on the tombstone to protect everyone else on the island.

I'll happily stand corrected if that means there's a happy reunion for the new family somewhere down the line, but I'm not convinced.

Anyway, next week's episode is going to be FANTASTIC. I can already feel it.

Grasshopper Green

I think if she was unsure if she would ever see him again...being upset at the cemetery would be perfectly realistic because he may as well be dead. That's just my take on it

The flashforward/flashback thing had me confused for a minute, but as soon as he left the panda in the car and ran after the guy and dropped his antique looking cell phone, I knew. Especially after running to get another panda. I don't think a father who didn't think he could be a father would miss the birth of his baby for a stuffed toy.

As far as the captain goes...he seems like a jerk but that's about it.

So...is Michael Ben's man on the boat? Is he pretending to not know who he is, or does he have amnesia or something?

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

ratbastid

I sometimes think I'm way to gullible to watch LOST--I thought it was weird, obsessive behavior, but I didn't twig to a storytelling trick. I like to suspend my disbelief with this show, it rewards trust.

Oh, I think absolutely he's Ben's man on the boat. Why would Ben have kept it a secret otherwise? If it's not Michael, there's no point not telling. "I have a man on their boat." "Who is it?" "Remember that guy who hasn't aged in like 15 years? The one who recruited Juliette? Him. But I'm not going to tell you--it's some big secret." Naaah. Had to be Michael.

Pac-man04

I going to say that Jin is dead!! Sun just seemed to hurt for him to simply be on the island. I think if that were the case then she would be more enraged than hurt like she was.

Anyone have any ideas how Ben was able to create a plane full of passengers to sink? I'll start out by saying (going way out on a limb here) that they could possibly be the bodies of the first islanders that he gassed.

__________________
"He's the best of us. The best of our best, the best that each of us will ever build or ever love. So pray for this Guardian of our growth and choose him well, for if he be not truly blest, then our designs are surely frivolous and our future but a tragic waste of hope. Bless our best and adore for he doth bear our measure to the Cosmos."

"You are
What you do
When it counts"

yellowmac

Seems plausible to me... though in my opinion I don't really think you'd need to account for every body. Not exactly a marine biologist here, but wouldn't something deep in the ocean take care of eating some, if not all, of the passengers? Like I would think that Ben could get away with putting, say, 50 bodies down there with the plane, and the world would reasonably believe that everyone on the plane died.

Hmm... actually, that's a very good point.

The_Jazz

Some questions to ponder:

What does the date mean on the LEFT side of Jin's grave marker? It was something when he was around 6. Any ideas?

Why would the Captain be carrying around the flight recorder? They're not going to be hauling it around on the off chance they run into Losties. What other value could it have, or did some folks on the outside know that there were survivors all along?

So we've got either all of the Oceanic Six or are still missing one. Jack, Kate, Hurley, Said, Sun and maybe Ben or maybe Claire's baby (who's name escapes me at the moment). Any thoughts on that?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

mrklixx

Last week the preview said "The final Oceanic Six member is revealed", so it would stand to reason that the 6 are Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Sun, and Aaron (Claire's baby). I seriously doubt that Ben would have expended all of the resources implied to remain hidden, only to announce himself as a worldwide celebrity.

__________________
This post is content. If you don't like it then you are not content. Or perhaps just incontinent.

This is not a link - Do not click here

I hate animated avatars.

Grasshopper Green

I want to know WHERE he got the flight recorder...aren't black boxes located in the cockpit? The cockpit part of the plane crashlanded in the trees...

Also...where is Walt? Is he pretending to be someone else too?

Spoiler: Who do you all think is going to die next episode? Personally, I think it's Claire. Her story has no where else to go now that Charlie is dead and there has to be a reason that Kate is taking care of Aaron.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

Frosstbyte

That flight recorder is the fake flight recorder from the fake crash with all the bodies which the captain alleges that Ben planted somehow. The real flight recorder was not actually recovered, unless the others or the Losties snagged it at some point

Your point about the possible death is well taken. If it's a "main" character, s/he seems like a good candidate. It could also easily be one of the freighter people or a side character. Who knows.

yellowmac

That's simply Sun's date of birth. The tombstone is a family tombstone so that Sun will eventually be buried next to her husband.

ratbastid

Maybe I'm just a cynic, but I always assume those "Someone.... Will.... DIE!!!!!" teasers are talking about a side character.

The question is whether the captain is really telling the truth. That black box could have come from anywhere, or could be a fake. Widmore would have the resources to get a spare or decommissioned black box, I think. And having it on hand would be helpful in convincing 815 survivors to help out against Ben.

The crew seems to have some issues with him--the doctor, who CSI fans will refer to simply as "Eckley" said, "He tells it like it is, but don't make him mad."