little_tippler

So, leading on from the friends for a lifetime thread, here is something that stems from my post there. This is a bit long so, sorry in advance.

I have a very close friend, who I've known since I was 8. That makes 17 years of friendship...wow. I didn't realise it was that long!

We have always got on like a house on fire, she is such an easy-going, open, sweet and kind person, I really love her to bits. She will always have a special place in my heart. When we finished high-school, we each went to different universities. We started seeing a lot less of each other, and I think it really got her down.

She has always been an insecure person, not confident though she seems to glow to everyone, the only one who doesn't see it is her, even though she has always been surrounded by people who love her (at least in terms of friends), she has the best sense of humour and can make me laugh with ease, she is very giving and has the easiest time making friends with people. Mainly her home life wasn't great because her mom is not a balanced person and has always made her feel worthless.

She had her first sexual experience at around 17 with some asshole who had sex with her then dropped her like she was nothing...she thought it would be a proper relationship...and that's where it all started going downhill. She became traumatised by this. She had a string of boyfriends who were not worthy of her, who completely undervalued her, but to me it seemed like she wanted bad men who would confirm she is worthless as she believes she is. Through all this she always had a smile on her face.

Then she met her current boyfriend...this guy used to be in a street gang, we have heard rumours that he raped a girl we know, he is a loud-mouthed obnoxious person...one of those people who makes a scene just to always be at the center of attention, when he drinks it's impossible to be around him, if you have a conversation with him watch out because you will have NO say in the conversation, if you try he just cuts you off, he pushes your shoulder while he's trying to make a point, and if you don't want to be rude then you will be glued to the spot until he decides he wants to talk to someone else! Aaaargh he is awful awful awful. I can't even begin to describe this with accuracy. He also lies left and right, that he knows this and that famous person, and how he had coffee with Peter Gabriel once and really ludicrous stuff...and even when he has known you for a while, he still feels he needs to do this to impress or be at the focus of everything. Even so, he is no longer in a gang and seems to have ammended his "ways" to some degree...but he's still so unpleasant to be around.

The thing is, I know she's not sure. She has broken down a few times, after coming out with me and other friends, that he is very possessive, and he wants them to move in together but she doesn't want to because she'd feel suffocated, she says he sometimes forces her to have sex...and numeorus other things. And worst of all she says, she has thought of breaking up with him lots of times, but she is afraid...of being alone. And nobody else ever wanting her. I just want to shake her and tell her to wake up, this is your life! You are so much better than this...

I hate him. I feel he manipulates her beyond words. She seems to be so wrapped up in him. I LOVE my friend. We live in the same city but I haven't seen her in MONTHS because of this guy. He goes with her everywhere. She loves him to bits. Why...it's incomprehensible to me. I think I will have to let her go. They have been together for ovr 5 years now. And the day she marries him...will be one of the saddest days of my life.

Maybe it's all in my head, but not one of our friends likes him. My boyfriend met him only once, and said he was horrible. Everyone agrees...but it's her choice right? I just feel so helpless watching this happen. We haven't fallen out at all, and I sometimes sacrifice myself and go with her and him to dinner or whatever, but it's so painful. I've come to the point where I don't want to meet him ever again. My boyfriend refuses to go out as couples with them. He says she is lovely, really adorable. So what do I do? In my heart I know it's a case of just letting go, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Have any of you been in this situation? As far as I know, this is quite a common occurrence.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

maleficent

My best friends girlfriends. Had absolutely no use for her and she was not even close to being good enough for him.

Tom was a great guy, really kind heart especially for stray puppy dogs, and that's what most of the women he ended up with were. I never quite got it either, Tom was really good looking, intelligent, athletic, great sense of humor, but when it came to women, he seemed to be attracted to those with lots of emotional baggage or just plain issues.

Usually that baggage came bubbling up in the relationship and he ended up being the one getting hurt and not really quite understanding what had happened. He was definitely the anti-maleficent. As cynical as I am towards people, he was the opposite, he saw good in these people... but when he was sitting there with his heart in his hands... he realized the truth about these women.

Thru it all though, I never once abandonded my friend, friends don't do that. I sucked it up thru many dinners and other events with these women, knowing what was going to happen at the end. He was an adult, he made his choices, but in the end he still needed me as his friend, and no matter what choices he made, I wasn't going to let him down.

I would give my right lung to have him back.

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little_tippler

I see what you're saying. I go to these get togethers for her sake too. But it's like she doesn't need me any more. She doesn't call me up any more, I do. He poisons her mind as well, tells her her friends are horrible. Sometimes I hear things coming out of her mouth that I know it's him speaking through her. All she talks about is him. It's hard...I'm not saying I'd turn away from her if she called, but sometimes it just makes me want to scream.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

maleficent

That's what matters then... Sometimes you can't protect people from themselves... I'd just drop her a note occassionally, or a phone call -- let her know you are still there... but otherwise -- she's got to figure it out for herself - -and I'm sure she will.

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Squishor

Have you tried just telling her how you feel, like you did us? I'd have a really hard time doing so myself, but sometimes it's better to take a risk and have a potentially more positive outcome than to just do nothing and watch your friendship die anyway.

little_tippler

it's funny you should say that...she knows. I have had an argument of sorts with him once...she knows and it doesn't matter to her.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

cellophanedeity

I suppose there's not much you can do.

Don't give her the ultimatum "It's either him or me" 'cause she'll choose him. It's just what happens. Did to a couple of friends, and to my mother when she was a kid. I'd just make sure you stayed open to being with her, incase the relationship turns worse than it sounds like it is allready.

Good luck, I know this must be terrible and hard.

SparklingDot

Here's to hoping she'll wise up eventually. It is really hard watching someone you love be treated like dirt, and acutally belive she deserves it. Is there anything you can do to help her slowly build her confidence? Its hard, but be persistant. How long has she been with this current jerk? Worst care scenario, if you can't remove him from the picture, maybe you can help her take some breathing room. Invite her on a trip, take her away someplace so she can remember what it is like to enjoy herself.

All you can really do is try. The rest is up to her. But never give up on her. She'll need you eventually.

__________________

17 seconds is all you really need
- Smashing Pumpkins

Meditrina

I would not let her go completely. I would be there for her, if and when she comes back. She will need you as a friend if she ever realizes what an ass he is and leaves him. I feel sorry for her, and I understand a bit of what she feels. I had a 2 yr relationship with a guy like that. Alot of my friends abandoned me because of him (or was it vice versa), except for my sister. She was there for me the moment I left him. Sorry, didnt mean for this to be about me. I would say dont forget her, ever. and be there for her when she returns.

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"Toughness is in the soul and spirit, not in muscles." ~Alex Karras

Sweetpea

This VERY serious and struck warning bells for me immediately . . . this can quickly turn into a serious Domestic violence situation if it hasn't already . . . what he is doing is systematically breaking down her self esteem . . . This is going to need an intervention before it gets anymore serious . . .

Him at times forcing her to have sex is one of the first ways of controlling and abusing . . .

Is there anyway you can get her into couseling clinic and talk about what's going on and to deprogram her from this situation? It may not be too late to free her from this situation . . .

Here is a hotline that may help her:

http://www.ndvh.org/

This site offers help as well and a search that help you locate places that can help intervene in your state.

http://www.ncadv.org/protectyourself...gHelp_128.html

You've had the correct reaction to be alarmed by this man's behavior, it shows many classic signs and can potentially lead to more serious abuse and possessiveness . . .

I know it's hard because when someone turns away from you when they are in this situation, but it's because their abuser teaches them that their friends don't really care for them, it's his way of keeping her isolated . . . I know it's really hard, but you're a great friend to be concerned for her and if there's anyway to get her one last time to see that she is in an abusive situation . . . try it one last time. I applaud your compassion for your friend.

Sweetpea

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"I am the Type of Person Who Can Get Away With A lot, Simply Because I Don't Ask Permission for the Privilege of Being Myself"

Grasshopper Green

I have to agree with sweetpea, and I'll add that him pushing someones shoulder to make them listen to him isn't a good sign either. This sounds very much like an ex of a friend of mine. He never "raped" her (physically forced her to have sex), but would wear her down until she finally submitted. After awhile, he started hitting her. She needs to be out of this relationship; only she can make that happen, but you can help the process along. Good luck to both of you.

__________________
"They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king"

Formerly Medusa

little_tippler

Thanks for the advice sweetpea, though I don't live in the states. I can see that it could become an abusive relationship, but it's more of an emotionally abusive one than a physical one. You know how hard it is for someone to see that for what it is. You can tell yourself, "but he doesn't hit me, so it's ok". But yeah I have been toying with the idea of calling her up soon and arranging something to do together... if I make any progress I'll let you guys know.

And thanks everyone for your support, I really needed to get this off my chest, and hear that I'm not paranoid.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

maleficent

Sadly, a lot of women, especially those with self esteem issues...

/me raises hand

don't see emotional abuse as abuse. It's equally as damaging as physical abuse, sometimes moreso because bruises heal... damage to the psyche take a lot longer to heal.

I hope you do call her, even if it's just to talk, or to go out for a girls lunch, just so she can have a healthy relationship in her life, and it shows her that her friends have not abandoned her, and if she needs an out -- she's got one that she's not alone. (abusers will often segregate the abusee from their friends in hopes that the abusee won't have any option but to stay)

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