anti fishstick

hi ladies,
i just got back from my trip to the philippines and noticed a few things there. my perspectives were changed completely! of course, being in a country where pace of life, diet, and evolutionary things (smaller bone frames, etc.) are different is going to make some changes. i was put in an environment where most everyone was skinnier than me, with tiny waists, and not one person was ever as obese as you see people in the states.

with everyone my size and smaller (mostly smaller) and people commenting on how "fat" i was (even if they only meant it jokingly or in a non-threatening friendly way.. whatever that is), i started to feel a little bad about my self esteem. i'd look in the mirror and think i was chubby. it's also interesting to note that a lot of guys still noticed me there, but that wasn't important to me. it wasn't about male attention, it was about how my self-esteem changed based on how my environment, in turn changed.

and as for body politics, i was used to being a "S" or "M" in the US but found that 'L' or 'XL' pairs of shorts fit me perfectly.

now i'm back in the states, and looking in the mirror thinking i'm a sexy bitch :-D how does the mirror lie or stretch the truth? and what is "truth"? is it only relative to the images we see and compare ourselves too? i'm still the same person in the reflection, no bigger or smaller but somehow, my perspectives allow me to see something positive or negative.

i don't know where i'm really going with this.
just something to think about
and discuss?

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SabrinaFair

I know what you're talking about, especially the part about mirrors and perspectives.

If I'm in the mirror-lined gym surrounded by a bunch of skinny broads on treadmills, I feel huge. If I'm surrounded by a bunch of weight-lifting muscle-head guys, I feel tiny. I feel most comfortable looking at my mirror here in my own room. When I look in that mirror, I feel confident and downright gorgeous. Then I'll catch a glimpse of myself in a reflection off a window going to class, with sorority belles and fashionistas all around, and I'm like, "Damn, Sabrina, you're a joke compared to these ladies." So yeah. It's all about perspective.

I feel fat or normal sized depending on what stores I'm shopping in...if I'm at an Old Navy that has sizes from 0-22, I feel nice and average. If I'm rummaging through the racks at somewhere like Abercrombie or American Eagle, where my size (10-12) is the highest one they carry....I feel abnormally fat. Of course, I don't shop places like that anymore. I much prefer stores that carry a variety of sizes, in a variety of legnths. Sorry, Abercrombie, but very few people are a size 4 Tall.

Really interesting thread, anti fishtick. Hope I didn't get too off topic.

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anti fishstick

exactly!
when i said i felt like a "sexy bitch", i was looking at the mirror in my room, where i'm most comfortable.

that brings another interesting set of questions (thanks Sabrina). when/where do you feel the most comfortable with yourself and when/where do you feel the least?

for me, i feel least comfortable at a big rock concert gathering (festival or arena) where TONS of girls are sporting tight clothes and cleavage and i'm in normal attire, and have no cleavage. you can tell they've obviously dressed up for the occasion, and they're all trying to get male attention... and i know this, and choose not to participate but i still secretly compare and feel jealous, awkward and uncomfortable around such 'gorgeous' girls.

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~Anais Nin

ICER

whoops.....forgot to sign in

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Ladyhawke

OK..now lets try it under my name

Well fishstick....When I look at you...I think your a sexy bitch as well

take it from a a lady that is more then a little chubby....It's all about your attatude about yourself

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lisa

Hhmmm, I don't know what to think about this really...
Do you mean you felt bad about yourself because you felt fatter then the rest, or do you mean you felt bad about yourself because the people there were skinny _ perhaps due to under nutrition... ???

How can you worry about the way you look when you're in a country like the Philipinnes where there is still so much poverty!?
I don't know, maybe I've misinterpreted your post... but when it would be me coming back from a visit to the Phillipines, I wouldn't really be thinking about the way I look or how much I weigh... more about the way I live, and the consequences thereof, or how lucky we all are that we have the luxury to worry about banalities such as weight or appearances....

(sorry if I sound preachy )

brianna

this is a great topic! unfortunately body image is often constructed based on what seems desirable in our current environment... when that environment changes it can upend a person's self esteem. think about reading "the beauty myth" by naomi wolf -- it's a great book about how the constructs of "beauty" in a society (she mostly focuses on the USA) affect women.

anti fishstick

i felt bad because i WAS fatter than the rest (more body fat) and the juxtaposition between american people and filipino people really made me see the difference which kind of played with my self esteem. i was just trying to illustrate that people can have either positive or negative body images of themselves based on the environment they're in and made an example with the philippines.

i have also come back thinking about the way i live, mostly the way i eat. the philippines is a much healthier diet by far. people who are in poverty are skinnier, but i don't think to the point of malnutrition, although some probably are, especially children. maybe i just don't see the 'slums' of the philippines much because my relatives are pretty well off, as far as living. they might not have all the luxuries people in america have but they are able to have the basics you need and a few luxuries here and there. poorer people just eat mongo soups and leaves a lot which is more of a vegeterian diet so of course they're going to be skinnier.

coming back from the philippines has made me realize just *how* unhealthy i have been eating in the states. i spend most my money on fast food, and eat ice cream every day (i work around it, i couldn't help it!). this juxtaposition between my diet in the philippines vs. the states has made me realize i should probably start eating healthier in general (less fast food, no ice cream, more juice and water, etc..). i don't necessarily want to lose weight. i just want to lead a healthier lifestyle.

the "beauty" of being thin is universal. even people in the philippines worry about their figure or gaining weight and being "fat". my 26 year old cousin was as big as me, maybe a bit chubbier. and she worried about it a lot more than i did. so don't think it escapes third world countries! worrying about such things isn't a luxury, it's just a big part of society.

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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin

InTeGrA77

WELCOME BACK, by the way!!!

This is a really good topic. This happens to me all the time. Why is it when we're by ourselves we think that we look just gorgeous, but when put into public with the "competetion" our self-esteems drop a tragic amount?I always tell myself that it isn't going to happen, but I just can't help it sometimes...

As Sabrina said, hardly anyone is a size 4 tall, including me. Sometimes I have to get jeans in almost the highest available size JUST so that they're long enough. But then they're hu-mun-go at the waist....Oh, why are clothes so tiny these days?

I used to be able to fit into S/M shirts pretty easily but now the XLs are about the size of the S the past...why is this???

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ladyadmin

I've been told that I have a sexy body and beautiful eyes since high school. I never fully believed it was true because the lack of confidence and low self esteem I had.

Now I feel comfortable in most situations unless there are other girls around that I consider sexier than myself.

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teriaki

Anti Fishstick

I know exactly how you feel- I was in Japan two years ago, and not only was I the tallest female in sight, but also the most 'rotund' (and I'm a 5 or 6 here, in most places).

I was most uncomfortable in my body, which isn't common for me normally. (well, aside from the "does my butt look big in this" or, "I'm so bloated today").

How they ate was a big shock to my system as well- even with all the beer and sake I was consuming, I managed to lose 5 lbs when I was there, just because their diet is generally better.

It makes you really examine the societal eating differences- they had McD's and such as well, but it served soba and udon, instead of fries and a shake.

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sexymama

I decided about 12 years ago that I was going to accept me as me. My heritage is "rubenesque" thus, so am I. Following a year of trying to loose weight and not succeeding, I took a fitness test. At 170 lbs I was only 1 lb. above my ideal body weight. I am very muscular, strong and curvy. I still struggle once in awhile and can understand what Anti is talking about; but for the most part I'm healthy and happy -- so I embrace my big breast and large hips and celebrate being me.

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Supple Cow

This makes me think of my biology class, oddly enough. One of our first lectures was on the issue of scale in life: that all life is scale dependent. To give an example, humans are pretty big so our world is dominated by gravity, but microscopic organisms live in a world where viscosity rules - air and water can feel like vaseline or even thicker to a little 'un, while we can walk and swim through them with ease because of our size. (Okay, I'm going to start relating this to what you're talking about soon.)

I think it's basic human nature to want to match our environment (the people who surround us) to a great extent in the interest of not standing out and being an outsider. This is why when went to the Philippines, a drastically different environment than here in the States, it made you uncomfortable. It showed you how comfortable you had become in your lifestyle here in the States and how being in this environment has changed you. (So much I gather from what you've said; I'm not trying to put words in your mouth or anything.) I'm pilipino too, and I went to Japan a few years ago, where I wasn't exposed to as much poverty (and the skinnyness that comes with it) and everything just turned out to be comforting because things were my size!

I'm doing a bad job of relating this all to your story, but I guess it just made me think of these things. Another thing it made me think of was the associations in Pilipino culture of fat with money. My relatives there are also pretty well off, and everytime my sisters or I go to visit, they all tell us that we should be eating more because we're skin and bone. This, coming from our ninangs (godmothers) who are the closest thing the Philippines has to obese. I wonder if they consciously associate their girth with their wealth.

Anyway, interesting thoughts. Thanks for starting the thread.

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lisa

interesting thread indeed,...

i've been thinking about this for a while now and don't really come to a satisfying conclusion...

I've been to LatinAmerica myself, in a so-called poorer region, and like Supple Cow said, being "fat" is often seen there as a symbol or at least as a sign of money, and class... So we can't really say that being thin is a universal beauty-standard... These beauty-standards are very relative to geographical, economical, sociological and historical factors.

For example, until the beginning of the 20th century, being pale (not tanned) was the thing to be, when you weren't pale, that meant you had to work a lot outside (probably as a farm) and that meant you were poor... Things changed a lot, as now, every summer, we all get into our sunbanks getting that nice tanned look...

The question I've been asking myself in the last couple of days was about the following stated:I think it IS a luxury,
I don't believe poor people -and I mean really poor people, those people who wake up everyday, not knowing wether they'll have something to eat on that day, or wether they will find a place to sleep at night etcetera,

I don't think that they actually worry about the way they look... do you? I think they are worried more about how to survive, and how to make it to the next day...

anti fishstick

I think you've reduce poor people down to some sort of one-dimensional thing. People are people and they do care about how they look no matter how much they have or don't have. Poor people aren't like dogs or rats - they think and have feelings too. Being poor does not make you a simpleton. You're making a vast, damaging stereotype, in my opinion. Poor people tend to be treated as less than other people enough as it is.

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And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.
~Anais Nin