How Young is Too Young to Hunt? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

f6twister · 12-17-2005, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Younger hunters measure advances
Assembly OKs bill that lowers age limit from 12 to 8
By DARRYL ENRIQUEZ

Posted: Dec. 16, 2005

For Christian Larson, new legislation that reduces Wisconsin's hunting age from 12 to 8 is sure to disappoint.

It's a year too late for the Cedarburg youngster, who is eager to join the hunt when he turns 12 next year.

"I'm sure he would have loved to have hunted deer this fall, but he had to sit in the stand with me instead," Christian's father, Mark Larson, said Friday, a day after the state Assembly passed the Youth Sporting Opportunities Act.

The measure allows gun and bow users as young as 8 to bag everything from bucks to bunnies under the watchful eye of a mentor who must always be within arm's reach of the child. Only one weapon would be allowed between the two hunters.

Under current law, children can begin to hunt with adults at the age of 12, provided they have completed safety courses.

"It would have been nice to have gotten my daughter out earlier," Larson said.

Emma Larson, 13, is an avid pheasant hunter who joins her father on an annual South Dakota bird hunt.

Hunting and wildlife organizations strongly support the measure that will go to the Senate next month and could go into effect for the 2006 hunting season.

On Friday, the Wisconsin Wildlife Federation - which includes 114 hunting, fishing and trapping organizations - praised Assembly passage of the bill.

"Under this bill, Wisconsin joins 38 other states throughout the country in providing a safe hunting experience for young men and women under the age of 12," said George Meyer, the federation's executive director.

Critics cite safety concerns

The bill also has detractors who question the wisdom of letting children armed with bows and guns stalk the woods, even with a mentor and only one weapon between the two of them.

Opponents say a child should have to pass a hunter safety course before entering a mentorship program, as should the designated mentor.

Mark Judd, a hunting safety instructor in Jefferson County, said the course can "weed out" children who are not intellectually or physically developed enough to hunt safely.

Judd said he has seen a lot of 12-year-olds who are not capable of walking through heavy woods and brush while carrying a gun, and he doubts many 8-year-olds will be able to cope with the demands of hunting.

The legislation would allow parents to determine whether their children are ready to learn about hunting and who will be their mentor.

Judd argues some parents pressure their children into sports at too early of an age. Judd also is a member of the Wisconsin Conservation Congress.

"I've seen it in 4-H and in Scouts," Judd said of parental pressure. "We've got a system in place. Let's see if these kids can pass the test."

Rep. Gary Alan Hebl (D-Sun Prairie) unsuccessfully argued in committee this week that all mentors should be required to pass hunter safety courses.

"I don't want to do something here that will threaten the integrity of hunting safety," he said.

Randy Stark, the state's chief conservation warden, said the Department of Natural Resources is neutral about the bill, but he stressed other states have not seen a rise in safety problems among young hunters.

The purpose of a reduced hunting age is to get children interested in the sport by allowing them to hunt at an earlier age, bill sponsor Rep Scott Gunderson (R-Waterford) said. Making children and their mentors go through hunter safety courses would hinder that goal, he said.

"Let's get them out there and see if they're interested," he said. "If they are, they can go through hunter's safety when they turn 12."

Maintaining hunting heritage

Getting new generations committed to hunting is important to maintaining its heritage in the state and continuing the $1.7 billion and 19,000 jobs it contributes to state's annual economy, Stark said.

"Hunting is a lifetime sports if kids learn it early," Larson said. "Kids who try to pick it up in their late teens are almost embarrassed to take hunter safety courses with a bunch of young kids."

States with no minimum age requirements are more successful in recruiting new hunters, says a study commissioned in 2004 by the Wisconsin Conservation Congress, the National Wild Turkey Federation, National Shooting Sports Foundation and the U.S. Sportsmen's Alliance.

The study found that in Wisconsin, 53 new hunters replaced every 100 who retired from the sport. Continuing that rate would reduce by half the number of hunters in just one generation.

Three neighboring states with no age requirement had a higher replacement rate: Illinois, 89 new hunters for every 100 retired; Iowa, 87 hunters for every 100 retired; and Minnesota, 59 hunters for every 100 retired.

Wisconsin licensed 722,893 hunters in 2004, compared with 769,430 in 1999, the year automation allowed for an accurate count of licensed hunters, according to the Department of Natural Resources.

Gunderson, a sports shop owner in Wind Lake, said he began working on the bill about 18 months ago. An earlier version had reduced the age to 10. The age went down to 8 as a concession to legislators who wanted no minimum age restrictions in Wisconsin.

Safety concerns about young hunters are unfounded, Gunderson said. By having only one weapon, a mentor's focus will be completely on the youth, who always will be at arm's length, he said.

When the youngster registers for a hunting license, an accompanying adult will receive a DNR pamphlet on gun safety.

Mentors must be at least 18 and a licensed hunter. They can be a parent or a designated guardian, such as a grandparent. Regardless of the argument about mentors going through hunter safety, state law remains intact that requires any hunter born after 1973 to complete a safety program.

"Hunters who get involved as being a mentor are not out there for themselves, they're out there for the kids," Stark said.

Link to Story

I find this scary. I used to be an instructor for the hunters safety course and saw first hand why kids should not have guns. Not only do they not understand the ramifications of their actions, they are too easily distracted and pose a safety risk. II think safety and responsibility was a big reason that the purchase age for rifles/shotguns is 18 and handguns 21.

I also could be wrong, but what could an 8 y/o shoot other than possibly a .22 that they could control? I also can't see a 8 y/o being strong enough to use a bow.

Bill O'Rights · 12-17-2005, 11:13 PM

I used to be a hunter safety instructer, as well. And yeah, I saw kids that had no business handling firearms. But, that was part of why I was there. I viewed hunter safety as my safety, as well as the kids, because these kids, that I was teaching, were going to be in the field...with me. How's that for motivated instruction? I also saw kids that I would be far more comfortable being in the field with, than a lot of so-called adult hunters that I know. That part is all relative.
8 year olds, though? I dunno. I guess I really don't have a problem with them being in the field, with a seasoned hunter, but I don't see them carrying the firearm. I think that I was 10 years old, when my father bought me, and taught me to use, a Savage "Camper's Companion", a .22/20 guage over and under. The 20 guage knocked me on my ass, from a kneeling position, the first time that I fired it. It never happened again.
I guess it all boils down to the kid, and his "mentor".

cj2112 · 12-17-2005, 11:15 PM

My son shot his first 20 ga. shotgun at 9 y.o. (he'll be 10 Monday and currently shoots clay targets every chance he gets). I plan on taking him on a youth pheasant hunt this year, he'll be using his semi-auto 20 ga. beretta 390. I have no issue with this law provided that the hunter safety course is a pass/fail course with the safety aspect strongly emphasized. Not all children this age are able to deal with the level of discipline and personal responsibility that handling a firearm (closely supervised) requires. This why I think that hunter safety needs to be required and MUST be a pass/fail course.

Gatorade Frost · 12-17-2005, 11:29 PM

I started hunting at 8 without any real negative effects. At 18 I don't really have an interest for hunting, but back then I enjoyed spending a weekend with the guys. I used to go hunting with my Dad who had been hunting probably since he was about 8, so I was going with a group of guys who probably had a combiend 250 years of hunting under their belts.

la petite moi · 12-18-2005, 12:12 AM

That's disgusting. If I had it my way, we wouldn't hunt at all.

Fire · 12-18-2005, 12:24 AM

I have to respectfully disagree- here in the midwest, we have a lot of problems with deer on the roads- the whitetail herd is immense - not to mention the "hillarity" that ensues when a deer gets lost in a suburb during morning rush- We have removed every other thing that eats deer from the landscape, and they like to breed (cant blame them there) Note that I feel that if one is going to hunt, one should either eat it or donate it to a food processor that donates the meat (we have several round here) - and while I am at it the antlers and bone makes great knife handles...... Seriously, its either let people hunt em or have the fish and game cull them- or let them get creamed by semi's ( saw that once, the deer actually seemed to explode) oh, and if its not a semi, you can get a serrious accident/fatality- Oh and to address the topic, I feel that 8 is ok as long as the mentor is competent and the kid has gone through the class and passed it......

Johnny Pyro · 12-18-2005, 12:37 AM

I agree with fire. The deer population out here is insane. I got into an accident recently avoiding a deer in the road. Alot of close calls too. Hunting is justified as long as its regulated and the animal is used for food or craft.

I think 8 is a good age too. Depending on the maturity of the child. I was 9 when I first went hunting and shot a .22 rifle. Didn't get anything, but I'll never forget it.

alpha phi · 12-18-2005, 12:49 AM

I was around 8 when my dad first took me hunting
I used a 22 bolt single shot
He kept the bullets in his pocket,
and would give me one as he saw fit.
I was only allowed to hunt small game.
I do believe that both the young hunter
and the mentor should be required
to pass hunter/gun safety training.
Especially anyone hunting on public land.

Grasshopper Green · 12-18-2005, 06:39 AM

I have no problem with hunting as long as it isn't just for sport. People have been hunting since we lived in caves...I'm sure we'll continue long after I die. I've also lived in an area with very high deer population, and it does help keep them under control. Some years, at least here in Utah, many starve to death during the winter because there simply isn't enough for all of them to eat. As for an 8 year old handling a gun..I think that the standards that they are held to should be very strict, but as long as he/she is with a qualified, capable adult, I think it's ok.

ScottKuma · 12-18-2005, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Rep. Gary Alan Hebl (D-Sun Prairie) unsuccessfully argued in committee this week that all mentors should be required to pass hunter safety courses.

That was the most reasonable idea I've seen - have both the mentor and the young hunter pass safety courses. Why didn't they pass that provision, as well, I wonder???

I've seen 8 year olds who would be fine out hunting...and I've seen 20 year olds that wouldn't be ok out there. It matters on the child's maturity & the mentor's ability to teach & control the child.

Siege · 12-18-2005, 08:15 AM

I don't understand the sport of hunting.

I can't really see there being much of a challenge versus the animal, so who are you competing against and in which way?

I'm actually pretty curious about this. Is it accuracy? Most head shots?

moot1337 · 12-18-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siege

I don't understand the sport of hunting.

I can't really see there being much of a challenge versus the animal, so who are you competing against and in which way?

I'm actually pretty curious about this. Is it accuracy? Most head shots?

Most headshots = Halo 1 & 2

As far as the question at hand... *shrug*. Could be best trophy, or best meal or food/craft use....

If you can't kill a deer with one shot, the f*cker runs off into the woods and you've got to trail it to make sure it doesn't live mutilated/wounded because of you. Also, most trophy animals aren't shot in the head because of the trophies they're made into... guess it could be most heart shots/least times chasing a wounded animal into the forest o_O

Pip · 12-18-2005, 09:13 AM

Speaking from my limited experience of kids and the outdoors (was a assistant scout leader for 10-12 year olds for a couple of years) I think it's doable under those regulations mentioned. On one hand, children under 12 usually don't understand the consequences of their actions. On the other hand they are very capable of learning and following strict safety rules. They certanly enjoy teasing the adults who break the same rules...

stevie667 · 12-18-2005, 10:59 AM

Does an 8 year old actually comprehend fully all the aspects of what he's doing when hunting? Does a 12 yr old for that matter?

I'm all for hunting adults, but i don't think it would be fully appropriate for someone that young to.

Cynthetiq · 12-18-2005, 11:05 AM

As a young scout I was taken to the range at a young age of 12 with other youths which had to learn all the fundamentals that my father already taught me at 10. There were a number of kids that did not get the idea of shooting and how to act responsibly with firearms.

Stopping kids from just shooting random animals was done by making them cook and eat what they killed.

As far as adults go, I went to a range with several computer geeks in the late 80s and they were no better. One guy hit himself with the recoil of the .45 right in the forehead because he didn't listen when proper stance was explained, nor did he listen to the rangemanster. I never went shooting with that group again.

snowy · 12-18-2005, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa99

I have no problem with hunting as long as it isn't just for sport. People have been hunting since we lived in caves...I'm sure we'll continue long after I die. I've also lived in an area with very high deer population, and it does help keep them under control. Some years, at least here in Utah, many starve to death during the winter because there simply isn't enough for all of them to eat. As for an 8 year old handling a gun..I think that the standards that they are held to should be very strict, but as long as he/she is with a qualified, capable adult, I think it's ok.

I agree with you, Medusa. Having grown up in the country, among hunters (my family doesn't hunt, but almost all of my parents' friends do) I can see how hunting does help the environment in some respects as well as I can understand what a bonding experience it can be for parent and child. As long as the adult is willing to be fully reponsible, and dedicate themselves to their child (and everyone else's) safety, I have no problem with it. Wisconsin has tried to write the law as best as possible, with one firearm between two people and direct supervision required.

analog · 12-18-2005, 11:35 AM

I wonder if there will be a backlash from PETA for this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

That's disgusting. If I had it my way, we wouldn't hunt at all.

Every animal is on the food chain. You can't ignore bunnies and pheasants and bambi because they're cute, or because you have a misguided notion that hunting is somehow "wrong". Humans, homo sapiens, have been a part of the food chain for as long as there have been humans. We have relied on the animals we've killed for food, clothing, shelter, weaponry, and a host of other things, just as every other living creature relies on some other animal(s) for its survival. Were it not for the hunters of the past, we would not be sitting here, able to make our opinions known.

So why, in this "enlightened" age of tofu turkey and veggie burgers, do we still feel the "need" to kill animals? There are areas where the economy and food supply still rely on hunting for fur trade, for meat, and for other crafts. The deer, etc., are still taking part in the food chain to this day, as they always have, because they are still an essential component in many lives.

As for hunting for sport, as has been said, population control is a big issue. If the population isn't kept within certain bounds, bad things happen. The worst of which is when a deer is in the road and is hit by a car. The deer dies anyway, and violently, and often the accident results in a human death as well. So now instead of proper control, you still have a dead deer- but now you also potentially have a human fatality and definitely a wrecked car.

Of course, that is just a reason for hunting to attempt to calm people bothered by it. For those not bothered by it, it's simply fun. I can no more describe to you, a hunter-hater, how "fun" hunting is than a NASCAR fan can describe to me, a person who hates NASCAR, that watching it is "fun". You are not going to understand my view on hunting, and I am not going to understand NASCAR- that's just the way it is, and no amount of whining about how stupid and pointless it is on either of our sides is going to make it go away.

Re: Topic... Within arm's length, one firearm between the two of them? Good enough for me. As has been said, it's about maturity and following safety instruction. My friend in NY, back when I was 8 and he was 9, was already very proficient with weapons his body size could handle, and 100% on safety. Since then, i've been out a few times with other people and, like others noted, i've been appalled at the behavior of some "adults". Education is the key to firearms.

feelgood · 12-18-2005, 12:05 PM

Had to be done

alpha phi · 12-18-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feelgood

Had to be done

Provided that federal law and the laws of both the dealer`s and purchaser`s states and localities are complied with:

An individual 21 years of age or older may acquire a handgun from a dealer federally licensed to sell firearms in the individual`s state of residence

An individual 18 years of age or older may purchase a rifle or shotgun from a federally licensed dealer in any state

http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/FederalGunLaws.aspx?ID=60

analog · 12-18-2005, 12:24 PM

I think the aim of the joke is not the age necessarily, but the fact that videogames are touted as "dangerous" and demonized so thoroughly... i mean, the comic is from Penny Arcade, a web comic about videogames. I doubt their main argument has anything to do with purchasing age, other than it's ridiculous you have to be as old to buy a real shotgun as you do for a videogame (18).

Sage · 12-18-2005, 01:02 PM

I got the gist from the article that there isn't a requirement in Wisconson for everyone to pass a hunter saftey course before getting a hunting liscense. I'm pretty sure you have to take a hunter saftey course in NC before getting a liscense. Hell, I took hunter saftey in 9th grade health class and shot skeet on school grounds with the sheriff.

As long as the venison keeps coming, I'm happy. I've never really seen the point of hunting tho, I mean the "excitement" part of it. I really liked your analogy Analog, about hunting and Nascar being two things you just can't explain the thrill of. Me, I like to fish.

LPM, perhaps you, having a contrary opnion to many of the people on this board, could explain why you don't like hunting.

alpha phi · 12-18-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

I think the aim of the joke is not the age necessarily, but the fact that videogames are touted as "dangerous" and demonized so thoroughly... i mean, the comic is from Penny Arcade, a web comic about videogames. I doubt their main argument has anything to do with purchasing age, other than it's ridiculous you have to be as old to buy a real shotgun as you do for a videogame (18).

I agree with the ratings system
It gives parents the tools
to take responsibility for their children.
Rather than blaming the video game/movie industry
for their lack of parenting.
If anything the ratings system protects
the games that are demonized
from abusive censorship

la petite moi · 12-18-2005, 01:16 PM

Sage, I am opposed to the killing of animals for sport because it is cruel and has lead to the endangerment of many species. I know many will argue that we need to kill animals to keep the population to a minimum, but killing for fun is wrong in my opinion.

Gatorade Frost · 12-18-2005, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

Sage, I am opposed to the killing of animals for sport because it is cruel and has lead to the endangerment of many species. I know many will argue that we need to kill animals to keep the population to a minimum, but killing for fun is wrong in my opinion.

Honestly when I hunted it was for a chance to get out doors with a group of close friends; to me the actual hunting was an afterthought.

Whenever we hunted, we'd be hunting white tail deer, like most people I assume, and we would process the meat and eat it. We wouldn't kill a deer just for the sake of getting to kill something. And most years whenever we would kill two deer (between my dad and me) we would donate the meat to a family who needed it.

Saying that hunting an animal for sport leads to the endangerment of an animal shows a lack of understanding about, at least in this case, deer hunting. Hunting where I've hunted has required a license and a limit, you can't just go around shooting deer, you have to tag each deer and have them processed when you go to have the meat processers take care of your meat.

I suppose it would be impossible to persuade some one to have a change of opinion on hunting, though, as it's purely a philosophical opinion as to whether hunting for sport is alright or not, so I'll leave my opinion there since there's really no use in persuading that kind of thing.

f6twister · 12-18-2005, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage

I got the gist from the article that there isn't a requirement in Wisconsin for everyone to pass a hunter safety course before getting a hunting license.

That is correct. Only those people born after 1973 are required to take the class. It is optional for anyone older than that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

I feel that 8 is ok as long as the mentor is competent and the kid has gone through the class and passed it......

I think this is where I find the problem. As you and a number of other people have stated, they agree with the idea as long as there is a competent mentor along. When I taught the safety classes, I did see a few adults come through that scared me more than some of the kids. I also work with a guy who thinks that it is okay for him to point his gun anywhere he wants as long as he doesn't have his finger on the trigger. The thought of these people being responsible for making sure their 8 y/o hunts properly is disturbing. Who is going to determine if the mentor is competent?

I guess it's situations like those above that makes this change in law unsettling. I would change my position if I saw some additional provisions added to the law. I think the parent should be required to take the safety class with their child, whether they have already taken the class or not. I would also like to see limits on what they can hunt and types of firearms. I can see some nut taking his kid out hunting and handing them a 30.06.

I hope this goes well. I really don't want to hear about an 8 y/o (or anyone else) who accidentally blew off his own head or someone else's while hunting.

la petite moi · 12-18-2005, 04:18 PM

Gatorade Frost, I stick to my opinion on the matter. I explained because Sage asked.

Ustwo · 12-19-2005, 12:10 AM

I will not get into a anti-hunting debate....I will not get into a anti-hunting debate......I will not get into a anti-hunting debate.....

Ok thats better....

But to the original article. Just think of the Darwin Awards potential. I think 8 is most likely too young for a lot of kids to hold any sort of firearms outside of a carefully monitored range/target shooting type of enviroment. At the same time I think kids can (and should) be exposed to hunting at a young age so they get a better graps of the natural enviroment and their place in it.

I can see how it could work, but it would be 100% due to the quality of the mentor.

ziadel · 12-19-2005, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

That's disgusting. If I had it my way, we wouldn't hunt at all.

wait, so its better that we just let deer overpopulate themselves and destroy property until home owners get so fed up with the destruction that they start leaving out bowls of anti-freeze?

as for the new law, I'm all for it.
start em young.

ziadel · 12-19-2005, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by la petite moi

but killing for fun is wrong in my opinion.

killing is killing whether done for duty, profit or fun.

I prefer killing for fun

redsfan11 · 12-20-2005, 02:58 AM

I've got no problem with it given the restrictions for hunter/mentor safety tests and one weapon per pair.

12-17-2005, 11:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bill O'Rights will always be an Alyson Hanniganite Location: In the dust of the archives	I used to be a hunter safety instructer, as well. And yeah, I saw kids that had no business handling firearms. But, that was part of why I was there. I viewed hunter safety as my safety, as well as the kids, because these kids, that I was teaching, were going to be in the field...with me. How's that for motivated instruction? I also saw kids that I would be far more comfortable being in the field with, than a lot of so-called adult hunters that I know. That part is all relative. 8 year olds, though? I dunno. I guess I really don't have a problem with them being in the field, with a seasoned hunter, but I don't see them carrying the firearm. I think that I was 10 years old, when my father bought me, and taught me to use, a Savage "Camper's Companion", a .22/20 guage over and under. The 20 guage knocked me on my ass, from a kneeling position, the first time that I fired it. It never happened again. I guess it all boils down to the kid, and his "mentor". __________________ "I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. Last edited by Bill O'Rights; 12-17-2005 at 11:21 PM..

12-17-2005, 11:29 PM	#4 (permalink)
Gatorade Frost Rookie	I started hunting at 8 without any real negative effects. At 18 I don't really have an interest for hunting, but back then I enjoyed spending a weekend with the guys. I used to go hunting with my Dad who had been hunting probably since he was about 8, so I was going with a group of guys who probably had a combiend 250 years of hunting under their belts. __________________ I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well." Emo Philips

12-18-2005, 12:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	I have to respectfully disagree- here in the midwest, we have a lot of problems with deer on the roads- the whitetail herd is immense - not to mention the "hillarity" that ensues when a deer gets lost in a suburb during morning rush- We have removed every other thing that eats deer from the landscape, and they like to breed (cant blame them there) Note that I feel that if one is going to hunt, one should either eat it or donate it to a food processor that donates the meat (we have several round here) - and while I am at it the antlers and bone makes great knife handles...... Seriously, its either let people hunt em or have the fish and game cull them- or let them get creamed by semi's ( saw that once, the deer actually seemed to explode) oh, and if its not a semi, you can get a serrious accident/fatality- Oh and to address the topic, I feel that 8 is ok as long as the mentor is competent and the kid has gone through the class and passed it...... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-18-2005, 12:37 AM	#7 (permalink)
Johnny Pyro Hey Now! Location: Massachusetts (Redneck, white boy town. I hate it here.)	I agree with fire. The deer population out here is insane. I got into an accident recently avoiding a deer in the road. Alot of close calls too. Hunting is justified as long as its regulated and the animal is used for food or craft. I think 8 is a good age too. Depending on the maturity of the child. I was 9 when I first went hunting and shot a .22 rifle. Didn't get anything, but I'll never forget it. __________________ "From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

12-18-2005, 12:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
alpha phi seeker Location: home	I was around 8 when my dad first took me hunting I used a 22 bolt single shot He kept the bullets in his pocket, and would give me one as he saw fit. I was only allowed to hunt small game. I do believe that both the young hunter and the mentor should be required to pass hunter/gun safety training. Especially anyone hunting on public land. __________________ All ideas in this communication are sole property of the voices in my head. (C) 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 "The Voices" (TM). All rights reserved.

12-17-2005, 11:15 PM	#3 (permalink)
cj2112 Unbelievable Location: Grants Pass OR	My son shot his first 20 ga. shotgun at 9 y.o. (he'll be 10 Monday and currently shoots clay targets every chance he gets). I plan on taking him on a youth pheasant hunt this year, he'll be using his semi-auto 20 ga. beretta 390. I have no issue with this law provided that the hunter safety course is a pass/fail course with the safety aspect strongly emphasized. Not all children this age are able to deal with the level of discipline and personal responsibility that handling a firearm (closely supervised) requires. This why I think that hunter safety needs to be required and MUST be a pass/fail course.

12-18-2005, 12:12 AM	#5 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	That's disgusting. If I had it my way, we wouldn't hunt at all.

12-18-2005, 06:39 AM	#9 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I have no problem with hunting as long as it isn't just for sport. People have been hunting since we lived in caves...I'm sure we'll continue long after I die. I've also lived in an area with very high deer population, and it does help keep them under control. Some years, at least here in Utah, many starve to death during the winter because there simply isn't enough for all of them to eat. As for an 8 year old handling a gun..I think that the standards that they are held to should be very strict, but as long as he/she is with a qualified, capable adult, I think it's ok. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

12-18-2005, 08:15 AM	#11 (permalink)
Siege is a tiger Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada	I don't understand the sport of hunting. I can't really see there being much of a challenge versus the animal, so who are you competing against and in which way? I'm actually pretty curious about this. Is it accuracy? Most head shots? __________________ "Your name's Geek? Do you know the origin of the term? A geek is someone who bites the heads off chickens at a circus. I would never let you suck my dick with a name like Geek" --Kevin Smith This part just makes my posts easier to find

12-18-2005, 09:13 AM	#13 (permalink)
Pip Likes Hats Location: Stockholm, Sweden	Speaking from my limited experience of kids and the outdoors (was a assistant scout leader for 10-12 year olds for a couple of years) I think it's doable under those regulations mentioned. On one hand, children under 12 usually don't understand the consequences of their actions. On the other hand they are very capable of learning and following strict safety rules. They certanly enjoy teasing the adults who break the same rules...

12-18-2005, 10:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Does an 8 year old actually comprehend fully all the aspects of what he's doing when hunting? Does a 12 yr old for that matter? I'm all for hunting adults, but i don't think it would be fully appropriate for someone that young to. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

12-18-2005, 11:05 AM	#15 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	As a young scout I was taken to the range at a young age of 12 with other youths which had to learn all the fundamentals that my father already taught me at 10. There were a number of kids that did not get the idea of shooting and how to act responsibly with firearms. Stopping kids from just shooting random animals was done by making them cook and eat what they killed. As far as adults go, I went to a range with several computer geeks in the late 80s and they were no better. One guy hit himself with the recoil of the .45 right in the forehead because he didn't listen when proper stance was explained, nor did he listen to the rangemanster. I never went shooting with that group again. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-18-2005, 12:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
feelgood Free Mars! Location: I dunno, there's white people around me saying "eh" all the time	Had to be done __________________ Looking out the window, that's an act of war. Staring at my shoes, that's an act of war. Committing an act of war? Oh you better believe that's an act of war

12-18-2005, 12:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
analog Banned	I think the aim of the joke is not the age necessarily, but the fact that videogames are touted as "dangerous" and demonized so thoroughly... i mean, the comic is from Penny Arcade, a web comic about videogames. I doubt their main argument has anything to do with purchasing age, other than it's ridiculous you have to be as old to buy a real shotgun as you do for a videogame (18).

12-18-2005, 01:02 PM	#21 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	I got the gist from the article that there isn't a requirement in Wisconson for everyone to pass a hunter saftey course before getting a hunting liscense. I'm pretty sure you have to take a hunter saftey course in NC before getting a liscense. Hell, I took hunter saftey in 9th grade health class and shot skeet on school grounds with the sheriff. As long as the venison keeps coming, I'm happy. I've never really seen the point of hunting tho, I mean the "excitement" part of it. I really liked your analogy Analog, about hunting and Nascar being two things you just can't explain the thrill of. Me, I like to fish. LPM, perhaps you, having a contrary opnion to many of the people on this board, could explain why you don't like hunting. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

12-18-2005, 01:16 PM	#23 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	Sage, I am opposed to the killing of animals for sport because it is cruel and has lead to the endangerment of many species. I know many will argue that we need to kill animals to keep the population to a minimum, but killing for fun is wrong in my opinion.

12-18-2005, 04:18 PM	#26 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	Gatorade Frost, I stick to my opinion on the matter. I explained because Sage asked.

12-19-2005, 12:10 AM	#27 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	I will not get into a anti-hunting debate....I will not get into a anti-hunting debate......I will not get into a anti-hunting debate..... Ok thats better.... But to the original article. Just think of the Darwin Awards potential. I think 8 is most likely too young for a lot of kids to hold any sort of firearms outside of a carefully monitored range/target shooting type of enviroment. At the same time I think kids can (and should) be exposed to hunting at a young age so they get a better graps of the natural enviroment and their place in it. I can see how it could work, but it would be 100% due to the quality of the mentor. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

12-20-2005, 02:58 AM	#30 (permalink)
redsfan11 Upright	I've got no problem with it given the restrictions for hunter/mentor safety tests and one weapon per pair.