FBI forces SuicideGirls to remove "indecent" pics - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

PulpMind · 09-26-2005, 06:08 PM

Hope I am posting this in the right place.. this is part of the first phase of something that is going to effect everyone on this site greatly.

CLICK AND READ THE IMBEDDED LINKS:
http://suicidegirls.com/boards/Ever...SG/81705/page1/

Hello,

I just wanted to let you know that, thanks to the "War on Porn," SG will be taking down a bunch of photosets and individual photos today.

Even the FBI agents paid to surf for porn find this ridiculous, but apparently sending people to jail for pictures of two consenting adults enjoying a little rope bondage is more fucking important than.... I dunno, pick any one of the million of better causes out there that the government could be focusing on.

So, I apologise heartily for having to do this, both to the SuicideGirls whose art is being fucked over and the members who are being treated like babies, but we really don't want to get shut down and sent to jail. As soon as legally possible, the photosets and pictures about to be taken down will come back. Until then, bid a fond farewell to your favourite blood-bathing beauties, rope-bound babes, and handcuffed honeys. Apparently they've no place in today's society.

If you want to help stop this stupidity, feel free join SG in donating to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the Free Speech Coalition. If you live in the US, you can also send a letter to your representative in Congress.

- SG

sprocket · 09-26-2005, 06:23 PM

I call bullshit on this. I seriously doubt the feds porn squad gives a rats ass about suicide girls. Their stuff is very tame. Recently I aquired a job in the porn industry and this is exactly the type of guerilla marketing that makes it so much money. Any publicity is good publicity and right now suicidegirls.com is taking me 3-5 minutes to load because they are getting so many hits. Its a publicity stunt.

edit: Also there is a post somewhere in the politics section that I think debunks this story about the fed anti porn squad and how its supposedly a #1 priority. Dont get me wrong, theres no love for the porn industry from many in the government, but I think its being a tad overblown here.

aberkok · 09-26-2005, 06:38 PM

I wonder why exactly the pictures were taken down. Isn't there new law requiring proof of a subject being 18 at the time of the shoot? Perhaps they were lacking in this proof? The letter doesn't go into why the specific pics were taken down.

PulpMind · 09-26-2005, 06:43 PM

sprocket,
although your thoughts on this being a great publicity stunt make sense, and you're right that SG is running kind of slow today, I have to call bullshit on your overall view.
I don't where "in transit" is, but here in Seattle, I've read several articles on the FBI's new, unwelcomed War on Porn.
If you go to the link I provided, you'll be forwarded to the SG girls website, which has the same post I made, but with hyperlinks to relevant articles. One of the articles you might be most interested in reading is this one: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050923-5346.html

g'day.

PulpMind · 09-26-2005, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aberkok

I wonder why exactly the pictures were taken down. Isn't there new law requiring proof of a subject being 18 at the time of the shoot? Perhaps they were lacking in this proof? The letter doesn't go into why the specific pics were taken down.

It mentions "blood bath, rope bondage, and handcuffs" ... anything "indecent" which apparently includes role-play. If you check out the SG website's thread about this, they go into a few more details.

Slavakion · 09-26-2005, 06:55 PM

If this is true, then I'm really pissed. SG might not be for everyone, but you can't deny that it's artistic. It's more like hardcore erotica than porn.

Fucking government...

sprocket · 09-26-2005, 07:12 PM

A thread about this anti-porn task force that was posted in politics a while ago.
http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...highlight=porn

The attorney generals actual words (also posted in that thread, farther down):
http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/200...remarkshov.htm

The arstechnica article you provided uses the report that this thread covered as its source. Like I said.. its overblown. Some have theorized that suicide girls is taking down content wich might not comply with the 2257 laws, and are using this to play the victims and generate some revenue. I think it is very plausible (even probable), especially now that I'm beginning to see how the industry operates from the inside. People are eating it up, given the widespread hysteria over Bush and his mythological theocracy. Brilliant.

But I may be wrong, who knows.

Either way it sucks they're taking down some pictures.

sprocket · 09-26-2005, 07:21 PM

And actually notice in the suicidegirls thread, it was never mentioned whether they were actually forced to remove content, or whether this was a pre-emptive voluntary thing. All the posts inquiring about this are left unanswered, at least as far as i read into the thread. hmmm.

About the only thing it said was: "We're taking down some pictures. Bush sucks!".

tspikes51 · 09-26-2005, 08:23 PM

I say On! On! Let Us wage War against the evil Porn. And whilst We are at It, let Us also go back to the Moon, fight against gay Marriage, and make fast that all Instances of Religion, whether Express or Implied, are removed from the public View. Let us not worry about child Molesters, Rapists, Murderers, the Deficit of Government Coin, or our system of Social Security.

Ganggreen · 09-26-2005, 09:05 PM

its all bullcrap..when i see the AP as the source, then i'll believe it. not some stupid threads that people want to direct me to.

analog · 09-26-2005, 10:33 PM

Not for nothing, but I don't really see it as a publicity stunt. The 2257 laws that would affect them have been in place for years and years, not suddenly sprung on them. Also, they're losing content because they don't want to go to jail over a website, even if it's their livelihood.

Just because someone bashes the piece of shit government we're currently living under, doesn't automatically make their claims bullshit, nor does it constitute a stunt... and i'm getting a very big feeling that, that is what's happening here... because there's government-bashing going on, people are chalking it up to wanting attention. I don't think they crave attention, I think some people just refuse to believe that sometimes site owners freak out and remove content BEFORE they clear it with a legal professional. Shit happens. Not all sites are run by a horde of programmers and lawyers. It should also be noted that there is no announcement on the front page of the site itself... you have to go to the forum and see the thread itself, there is no external "welcome to our site, now read about our plight" reference. (rhyming not intentional) They also feature new sets of pictures 4 times a day. They're doing very well, they don't need this nonsense "publicity". Skepticism is healthy in reasonable amounts... too much can just make a person an asshole.

If there's anyone who should understand the notion of a preemptive strike before making sure what's really going on, it's the supporters of this administration.

Strange Famous · 09-26-2005, 10:36 PM

doesnt sound that realistic to me, I mean there are loads of bondage sites?

analog · 09-26-2005, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

doesnt sound that realistic to me, I mean there are loads of bondage sites?

...is that a question, or a statement?

mrklixx · 09-27-2005, 02:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

I don't think they crave attention

Right, because people that post pictures of naked, tattooed, pierced, tied-up girls surely don't want anyone looking at them.

Redlemon · 09-27-2005, 07:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ganggreen

its all bullcrap..when i see the AP as the source, then i'll believe it. not some stupid threads that people want to direct me to.

Will the Washington Post be good enough?
Recruits Sought for Porn Squad

Quote:

Recruits Sought for Porn Squad

By Barton Gellman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, September 20, 2005; A21

The FBI is joining the Bush administration's War on Porn. And it's looking for a few good agents.

Early last month, the bureau's Washington Field Office began recruiting for a new anti-obscenity squad. Attached to the job posting was a July 29 Electronic Communication from FBI headquarters to all 56 field offices, describing the initiative as "one of the top priorities" of Attorney General Alberto R. Gonzales and, by extension, of "the Director." That would be FBI Director Robert S. Mueller III.

Mischievous commentary began propagating around the water coolers at 601 Fourth St. NW and its satellites, where the FBI's second-largest field office concentrates on national security, high-technology crimes and public corruption.

The new squad will divert eight agents, a supervisor and assorted support staff to gather evidence against "manufacturers and purveyors" of pornography -- not the kind exploiting children, but the kind that depicts, and is marketed to, consenting adults.

"I guess this means we've won the war on terror," said one exasperated FBI agent, speaking on the condition of anonymity because poking fun at headquarters is not regarded as career-enhancing. "We must not need any more resources for espionage."

Among friends and trusted colleagues, an experienced national security analyst said, "it's a running joke for us."

A few of the printable samples:

"Things I Don't Want On My Resume, Volume Four."

"I already gave at home."

"Honestly, most of the guys would have to recuse themselves."

Federal obscenity prosecutions, which have been out of style since Attorney General Edwin Meese III in the Reagan administration made pornography a signature issue in the 1980s, do "encounter many legal issues, including First Amendment claims," the FBI headquarters memo noted.

Applicants for the porn squad should therefore have a stomach for the kind of material that tends to be most offensive to local juries. Community standards -- along with a prurient purpose and absence of artistic merit -- define criminal obscenity under current Supreme Court doctrine.

"Based on a review of past successful cases in a variety of jurisdictions," the memo said, the best odds of conviction come with pornography that "includes bestiality, urination, defecation, as well as sadistic and masochistic behavior." No word on the universe of other kinks that helps make porn a multibillion-dollar industry.

Popular acceptance of hard-core pornography has come a long way, with some of its stars becoming mainstream celebrities and their products -- once confined to seedy shops and theaters -- being "purveyed" by upscale hotels and most home cable and satellite television systems. Explicit sexual entertainment is a profit center for companies including General Motors Corp. and Rupert Murdoch's News Corp. (the two major owners of DirecTV), Time Warner Inc. and the Sheraton, Hilton, Marriott and Hyatt hotel chains.

But Gonzales endorses the rationale of predecessor Meese: that adult pornography is a threat to families and children. Christian conservatives, long skeptical of Gonzales, greeted the pornography initiative with what the Family Research Council called "a growing sense of confidence in our new attorney general."

Congress began funding the obscenity initiative in fiscal 2005 and specified that the FBI must devote 10 agents to adult pornography. The bureau decided to create a dedicated squad only in the Washington Field Office. "All other field offices may investigate obscenity cases pursuant to this initiative if resources are available," the directive from headquarters said. "Field offices should not, however, divert resources from higher priority matters, such as public corruption."

Public corruption, officially, is fourth on the FBI's priority list, after protecting the United States from terrorist attack, foreign espionage and cyber-based attacks. Just below those priorities are civil rights, organized crime, white-collar crime and "significant violent crime." The guidance from headquarters does not mention where pornography fits in.

"The Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation's top priority remains fighting the war on terrorism," said Justice Department press secretary Brian Roehrkasse. "However, it is not our sole priority. In fact, Congress has directed the department to focus on other priorities, such as obscenity."

At the FBI's field office, spokeswoman Debra Weierman expressed disappointment that some of her colleagues find grist for humor in the new campaign. "The adult obscenity squad . . . stems from an attorney general mandate, funded by Congress," she said. "The personnel assigned to this initiative take the responsibility of this assignment very seriously and are dedicated to the success of this program."

So, I believe it is established that the FBI is setting up a porn attack. That doesn't say that the Suicide Girls picture removal is part of the FBI sting. It might be a diversion staged by SG to cover for the mass resignation of SG girls.
UnPink- The Jiggly Fall of an Alt-Porn Icon, Wherin the recent chaos at Suicidegirls.com is succinctly explained

Quote:

Tuesday, September 20, 2005
I first came across Suicidegirls 2 years go. A perpetually horny friend of mine showed me the very pink front page. "The girls are hot" he said. "But there's no penetration"

But that's not the only way Suicidegirls differs from the standard run of porn sites.

Suicidegirls represents a new take on the whole medium. In standard porn sites, the girls sell their pictures and leave. In SG, the girls are active participants, talking with members, writing in their journals, and acting like (oft undeserved) icons of cool. Suicidegirls was boobs and personality, all wrapped up in a pink feminista package.

It got SG street cred. It got them into Rolling Stone.

Which is why the last two weeks left me so gravely disappointed.

If you've been traveling the blogsphere you probably know that Suicidegirls is run by a man. Though Missy is the public face of the site, the man on the deed in Sean Suhl. Sean's a marketing genius, who built SG around the personalities of chicks with tattoos and charisma. Even as SG expanded from 10 girls to 800, these remained the stars.

Until, the last few days, half of them, very publicly, quit.

Here's the score.

One of the most popular SG's, Sicily, was booted off the site after an anti Suicidegirls journal entry she wrote (caused by financial disagreements with the owner). You can see the text here.

Two other popular girls, Katie and Apnea (of Lithium Picnic fame) shot for another site and got their passwords taken away. Staff changed Apnea's journal and made it look like they were active.

Voltaire quit in protest. Staff pulled same move on her.

By this time, it's all over the blogsphere. Girls are quitting left and right. Claudia, Sita, Molly, Gillian, Ciel, Annabelle, Angie, Shera, Annie, Genivieve, Mistidawn, Les, and a new one every hour or three..

SG, in response to four of its best girls quitting, changes entire site format. Archived girls and active girls are indistinguishable- except archived girls have no access to the site. Sounds a lot more like a standard porn site setup to me, and less like the "get to know the models" approach that made SG famous. In the last few weeks, SG's become about pussy, not personality.

Hey, there's nothing wrong with pussy, as my horny friend will say. But it won't get you indie street cred.

And it won't get you into Rolling Stone.

Ustwo · 09-27-2005, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Hey, there's nothing wrong with pussy, as my horny friend will say. But it won't get you indie street cred.

And it won't get you into Rolling Stone.

Mmm I don't recall any SG's showing much pussy

As for the FBI thing, welcome to marketing 101. Don't be a sucker.

Strange Famous · 09-27-2005, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

...is that a question, or a statement?

It is a statement, I do not believe what the website is claimining to be true, based on the logic that there are lots of longstanding American websites featuring bondage it doesnt seem likely to me that the FBI would shut down this site and not others.

tspikes51 · 09-27-2005, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by analog

Skepticism is healthy in reasonable amounts... too much can just make a person an asshole.

Wow, give this man a trophy and a box of the finest cigars.

mrklixx · 09-27-2005, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Famous

It is a statement, I do not believe what the website is claimining to be true, based on the logic that there are lots of longstanding American websites featuring bondage it doesnt seem likely to me that the FBI would shut down this site and not others.

I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Famous here. I think so long as the likes of Maxhardcore, Wiredpussy, etc are online, it would seem that Suicidegirls as a top target is highly unlikely.

analog · 09-27-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tspikes51

Wow, give this man a trophy and a box of the finest cigars.

lol i'm not a fan of cigars... but i'm always up for trying one of those notoriously awesome Cubans.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrklixx

I'm going to have to agree with Mr. Famous here. I think so long as the likes of Maxhardcore, Wiredpussy, etc are online, it would seem that Suicidegirls as a top target is highly unlikely.

Yes, I can see where you're both getting at, but since when has "cracking down" ever been about anything but high-profile, "make an example of them" manuevering? I guarantee a shitload MORE people know who SuicideGirls are... hell, I'm into the whole image, and i've only seen maxhardcore a few times and heard of wiredpussy in passing. SuicideGirls is high-profile, and causing them shit would give the gubment the most bang for their porn-busting buck.

Of course, they're not after them yet, this was a measure of precaution. And now I have to go look into my sources to find out about the mass exodus and see what's what... maybe that's part of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon, in an article he quoted

If you've been traveling the blogsphere you probably know that Suicidegirls is run by a man.

Of course a man made it! It's a web site, not a delicious Thanksgiving dinner! [/Family Guy reference just for humor]

PulpMind · 09-27-2005, 04:15 PM

something important to maybe consider before passing too much judgement on SG... their servers are in Portland, OR. Alot of these other sites have their servers in other countries. The feds can only go after porn which resides on servers in the US.

Halx · 09-27-2005, 04:30 PM

As someone with experience in the porn industry as well, I have to agree with sprocket on this one. The porn industry has become a race to think up the next, most shocking bit of content that will get passed around the internet like wildfire and bring traffic to a website. Hey look! There's a link to SG on the TFP General Discussion board! Mission accomblished.

Slavakion · 09-27-2005, 05:35 PM

Since the livejournal linked in that news story has been taken down, check out these links. Some serious shit was going down at SG.

Sicily's Confession
Sicily Speaks
SG livejournal group
Dia's livejournal

lurkette · 09-29-2005, 07:30 AM

From BoingBoing.net - looks like it was a pre-emptive removal.

Suicide Girls: rumor-debunking time

By Xeni Jardin

Xeni Jardin: Disclaimer: Suicide Girls is a Boing Boing sponsor.

Punk rock pinup site Suicide Girls has been the subject of much internet rumorage recently, on two fronts. First, problems between management and models; second, rumors that an FBI porn squad "cracked down" on SG, ordering the to take down certain images. Let's take these one at a time.

Wired News publishes this account today of claims that about 30 models have quit SG in recent weeks:

A group of angry ex-models is bashing the SuicideGirls alt-porn empire, saying its embrace of the tattoo and nipple-ring set hides a world of exploitation and male domination. The women are spreading their allegations through the blogosphere, raising the hackles of the SuicideGirls company, which has until now enjoyed a reputation as porn even feminists can love. It offers burlesque tours, clothes and DVDs in addition to a sprawling online library of naked punk and goth women.

"The recent accusations are a little upsetting," said "Missy," the co-founder of SuicideGirls. "We think they're all pretty much unfounded."

Link.

Now, about that porn squad. As blogged previously on Boing Boing, this August the FBI's Washington, DC office began recruiting for a new anti-obscenity squad tasked with gathering evidence about "manufacturers and purveyors of pornography" -- not child porn, not bestiality, not porn already illegal under US law. This time, the target is sexually explicit material depicting consenting adults, marketed to adults. Four days after the Washington Post published that news, Suicide Girls model and web engineer Olivia posted this item on the Suicide Girls blog which stated, in part:

SG Removing Pictures, You Can Thank Bush

I just wanted to let you know that, thanks to the "War on Porn," SG will be taking down a bunch of photosets and individual photos today. Even the FBI agents paid to surf for porn find this ridiculous, but apparently sending people to jail for pictures of two consenting adults enjoying a little rope bondage is more fucking important than.... I dunno, pick any one of the million of better causes out there that the government could be focusing on.

So, I apologise heartily for having to do this, both to the SuicideGirls whose art is being fucked over and the members who are being treated like babies, but we really don't want to get shut down and sent to jail. As soon as legally possible, the photosets and pictures about to be taken down will come back.

The language of this post led many to assume the FBI must have contacted SG and ordered them to take down images, or that some other form of action by a federal agency against SG over obscenity matters had taken place. But in fact, that didn't happen. It would seem unlikely that a still-in-formation antismut force would pick SG as its first target, anyway, given the abundance of far more hardcore sites on the internet -- SG doesn't feature penetration or actual sex acts, just cute goth girls frolicking about in nothing but their tattoos. Despite this, rumors continued to proliferate on blogs and mailing list ("feds shut down suicide girls!!!", "FBI fscks SG!", "Bush bones goth erotica site!").

But today, SG's Missy explains that the image takedown wasn't the result of contact by the FBI or any other authorities -- the site's management simply chose to pre-emptively remove certain photos. Missy tells Boing Boing:

While we do not believe any of our images are illegal, SG has removed a number of images in order to ensure that we are not targeted by the U.S. Government's new "War on Porn."

We have received no formal government notice to remove these images, however, in the course of our involvement, as witnesses, in a federal criminal prosecution that does not target SG, we have been made aware of the risks posting such content poses the owners of the company. Given the U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' new war on porn task force and it's intent to bring obscenity charges against their loosely defined "Deviant" imagery, we have removed any images with fake blood and any images we felt could be wrongfully construed as sadist or masochist.

Given the natural disasters in Louisiana and Texas, the U.S. Government's numerous foreign war's and the growing U.S. deficit, we feel there are far better uses of government resources then pursuing the legality of imagery created by consenting adults, but as is usually the case, our opinions are not shared by the Current U.S. Administration. Also, we really miss Bill Clinton.

Proprietors of websites, adult and otherwise, make content management decisions each day. Porn and erotica site owners make decisions each day about what forms of sexually explicit material they'll publish. None of that is news. But as the current US administration's anti-porn activities unfold in months to come, many adult site proprietors will consider the increasingly hostile political climate when making those decisions. Some will continue with porn-business as usual. Others will effectively censor themselves to minimize potential legal risk exposure. That's called a chilling effect.

But did the FBI force Suicide Girls to remove their pictures? (mmm, that sounds kinda naughty, actually) -- for the bloggy record, the answer is no.

ScottKuma · 09-29-2005, 08:36 AM

After reading the linked entry from Olivia and the replies thereto, I think it wasn't just our Vice President who needed to get some jerks removed from his knees.

Man, people see ANY kind of anti-Bush post ANYWHERE and it's just "Jump on the bandwagon" time!!

Bush ain't my favorite (and I voted for him...), he's certainly no hero/saint, but he ain't my least favorite prez, either.

I just get really really ticked at the relative black/white (not race, but as in one side or the other) state of politics in the USA lately. There's no room for shades of grey. And in my opinion, somewhere firmly ensconced within those shades of grey is where the truth lies.

World's King · 09-29-2005, 10:52 AM

I'd much rather tie up a hot tattooed 19yr old then look at a picture of one.

Move on... nothing to see here...

Charlatan · 09-29-2005, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by World's King

I'd much rather tie up a hot tattooed 19yr old then look at a picture of one.

Can I take pictures when you do?

09-26-2005, 06:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	FBI forces SuicideGirls to remove "indecent" pics Hope I am posting this in the right place.. this is part of the first phase of something that is going to effect everyone on this site greatly. CLICK AND READ THE IMBEDDED LINKS: http://suicidegirls.com/boards/Ever...SG/81705/page1/ Hello, I just wanted to let you know that, thanks to the "War on Porn," SG will be taking down a bunch of photosets and individual photos today. Even the FBI agents paid to surf for porn find this ridiculous, but apparently sending people to jail for pictures of two consenting adults enjoying a little rope bondage is more fucking important than.... I dunno, pick any one of the million of better causes out there that the government could be focusing on. So, I apologise heartily for having to do this, both to the SuicideGirls whose art is being fucked over and the members who are being treated like babies, but we really don't want to get shut down and sent to jail. As soon as legally possible, the photosets and pictures about to be taken down will come back. Until then, bid a fond farewell to your favourite blood-bathing beauties, rope-bound babes, and handcuffed honeys. Apparently they've no place in today's society. If you want to help stop this stupidity, feel free join SG in donating to the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) and the Free Speech Coalition. If you live in the US, you can also send a letter to your representative in Congress. - SG

09-26-2005, 06:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
sprocket Psycho Location: In transit	I call bullshit on this. I seriously doubt the feds porn squad gives a rats ass about suicide girls. Their stuff is very tame. Recently I aquired a job in the porn industry and this is exactly the type of guerilla marketing that makes it so much money. Any publicity is good publicity and right now suicidegirls.com is taking me 3-5 minutes to load because they are getting so many hits. Its a publicity stunt. edit: Also there is a post somewhere in the politics section that I think debunks this story about the fed anti porn squad and how its supposedly a #1 priority. Dont get me wrong, theres no love for the porn industry from many in the government, but I think its being a tad overblown here. __________________ Remember, wherever you go... there you are. Last edited by sprocket; 09-26-2005 at 06:26 PM..

09-26-2005, 06:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
aberkok “Wrong is right.” Location: toronto	I wonder why exactly the pictures were taken down. Isn't there new law requiring proof of a subject being 18 at the time of the shoot? Perhaps they were lacking in this proof? The letter doesn't go into why the specific pics were taken down. __________________ !check out my new blog! http://arkanamusic.wordpress.com Warden Gentiles: "It? Perfectly innocent. But I can see how, if our roles were reversed, I might have you beaten with a pillowcase full of batteries." Last edited by aberkok; 09-26-2005 at 06:41 PM.. Reason: didn't see OP post letter, then did

09-26-2005, 07:12 PM	#7 (permalink)
sprocket Psycho Location: In transit	A thread about this anti-porn task force that was posted in politics a while ago. http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/showthr...highlight=porn The attorney generals actual words (also posted in that thread, farther down): http://www.usdoj.gov/ag/speeches/200...remarkshov.htm The arstechnica article you provided uses the report that this thread covered as its source. Like I said.. its overblown. Some have theorized that suicide girls is taking down content wich might not comply with the 2257 laws, and are using this to play the victims and generate some revenue. I think it is very plausible (even probable), especially now that I'm beginning to see how the industry operates from the inside. People are eating it up, given the widespread hysteria over Bush and his mythological theocracy. Brilliant. But I may be wrong, who knows. Either way it sucks they're taking down some pictures. __________________ Remember, wherever you go... there you are. Last edited by sprocket; 09-26-2005 at 07:36 PM..

09-26-2005, 07:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
sprocket Psycho Location: In transit	And actually notice in the suicidegirls thread, it was never mentioned whether they were actually forced to remove content, or whether this was a pre-emptive voluntary thing. All the posts inquiring about this are left unanswered, at least as far as i read into the thread. hmmm. About the only thing it said was: "We're taking down some pictures. Bush sucks!". __________________ Remember, wherever you go... there you are.

09-26-2005, 06:43 PM	#4 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	sprocket, although your thoughts on this being a great publicity stunt make sense, and you're right that SG is running kind of slow today, I have to call bullshit on your overall view. I don't where "in transit" is, but here in Seattle, I've read several articles on the FBI's new, unwelcomed War on Porn. If you go to the link I provided, you'll be forwarded to the SG girls website, which has the same post I made, but with hyperlinks to relevant articles. One of the articles you might be most interested in reading is this one: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050923-5346.html g'day.

09-26-2005, 06:55 PM	#6 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	If this is true, then I'm really pissed. SG might not be for everyone, but you can't deny that it's artistic. It's more like hardcore erotica than porn. Fucking government...

09-26-2005, 08:23 PM	#9 (permalink)
tspikes51 Fuckin' A Location: Lex Vegas	I say On! On! Let Us wage War against the evil Porn. And whilst We are at It, let Us also go back to the Moon, fight against gay Marriage, and make fast that all Instances of Religion, whether Express or Implied, are removed from the public View. Let us not worry about child Molesters, Rapists, Murderers, the Deficit of Government Coin, or our system of Social Security. __________________ "I'm telling you, we need to get rid of a few people or a million." -Maddox

09-26-2005, 09:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
Ganggreen Tilted	its all bullcrap..when i see the AP as the source, then i'll believe it. not some stupid threads that people want to direct me to.

09-26-2005, 10:33 PM	#11 (permalink)
analog Banned	Not for nothing, but I don't really see it as a publicity stunt. The 2257 laws that would affect them have been in place for years and years, not suddenly sprung on them. Also, they're losing content because they don't want to go to jail over a website, even if it's their livelihood. Just because someone bashes the piece of shit government we're currently living under, doesn't automatically make their claims bullshit, nor does it constitute a stunt... and i'm getting a very big feeling that, that is what's happening here... because there's government-bashing going on, people are chalking it up to wanting attention. I don't think they crave attention, I think some people just refuse to believe that sometimes site owners freak out and remove content BEFORE they clear it with a legal professional. Shit happens. Not all sites are run by a horde of programmers and lawyers. It should also be noted that there is no announcement on the front page of the site itself... you have to go to the forum and see the thread itself, there is no external "welcome to our site, now read about our plight" reference. (rhyming not intentional) They also feature new sets of pictures 4 times a day. They're doing very well, they don't need this nonsense "publicity". Skepticism is healthy in reasonable amounts... too much can just make a person an asshole. If there's anyone who should understand the notion of a preemptive strike before making sure what's really going on, it's the supporters of this administration. Last edited by analog; 09-26-2005 at 10:44 PM..

09-26-2005, 10:36 PM	#12 (permalink)
Strange Famous follower of the child's crusade?	doesnt sound that realistic to me, I mean there are loads of bondage sites? __________________ "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are plain in the sight of Heaven. For nothing hidden will not become manifest, and nothing covered will remain without being uncovered." The Gospel of Thomas

09-27-2005, 04:15 PM	#21 (permalink)
PulpMind Addict Location: Portland	something important to maybe consider before passing too much judgement on SG... their servers are in Portland, OR. Alot of these other sites have their servers in other countries. The feds can only go after porn which resides on servers in the US.

09-27-2005, 04:30 PM	#22 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	As someone with experience in the porn industry as well, I have to agree with sprocket on this one. The porn industry has become a race to think up the next, most shocking bit of content that will get passed around the internet like wildfire and bring traffic to a website. Hey look! There's a link to SG on the TFP General Discussion board! Mission accomblished. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

09-27-2005, 05:35 PM	#23 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Since the livejournal linked in that news story has been taken down, check out these links. Some serious shit was going down at SG. Sicily's Confession Sicily Speaks SG livejournal group Dia's livejournal

09-29-2005, 07:30 AM	#24 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	From BoingBoing.net - looks like it was a pre-emptive removal. Suicide Girls: rumor-debunking time By Xeni Jardin Xeni Jardin: Disclaimer: Suicide Girls is a Boing Boing sponsor. Punk rock pinup site Suicide Girls has been the subject of much internet rumorage recently, on two fronts. First, problems between management and models; second, rumors that an FBI porn squad "cracked down" on SG, ordering the to take down certain images. Let's take these one at a time. Wired News publishes this account today of claims that about 30 models have quit SG in recent weeks: A group of angry ex-models is bashing the SuicideGirls alt-porn empire, saying its embrace of the tattoo and nipple-ring set hides a world of exploitation and male domination. The women are spreading their allegations through the blogosphere, raising the hackles of the SuicideGirls company, which has until now enjoyed a reputation as porn even feminists can love. It offers burlesque tours, clothes and DVDs in addition to a sprawling online library of naked punk and goth women. "The recent accusations are a little upsetting," said "Missy," the co-founder of SuicideGirls. "We think they're all pretty much unfounded." Link. Now, about that porn squad. As blogged previously on Boing Boing, this August the FBI's Washington, DC office began recruiting for a new anti-obscenity squad tasked with gathering evidence about "manufacturers and purveyors of pornography" -- not child porn, not bestiality, not porn already illegal under US law. This time, the target is sexually explicit material depicting consenting adults, marketed to adults. Four days after the Washington Post published that news, Suicide Girls model and web engineer Olivia posted this item on the Suicide Girls blog which stated, in part: SG Removing Pictures, You Can Thank Bush I just wanted to let you know that, thanks to the "War on Porn," SG will be taking down a bunch of photosets and individual photos today. Even the FBI agents paid to surf for porn find this ridiculous, but apparently sending people to jail for pictures of two consenting adults enjoying a little rope bondage is more fucking important than.... I dunno, pick any one of the million of better causes out there that the government could be focusing on. So, I apologise heartily for having to do this, both to the SuicideGirls whose art is being fucked over and the members who are being treated like babies, but we really don't want to get shut down and sent to jail. As soon as legally possible, the photosets and pictures about to be taken down will come back. The language of this post led many to assume the FBI must have contacted SG and ordered them to take down images, or that some other form of action by a federal agency against SG over obscenity matters had taken place. But in fact, that didn't happen. It would seem unlikely that a still-in-formation antismut force would pick SG as its first target, anyway, given the abundance of far more hardcore sites on the internet -- SG doesn't feature penetration or actual sex acts, just cute goth girls frolicking about in nothing but their tattoos. Despite this, rumors continued to proliferate on blogs and mailing list ("feds shut down suicide girls!!!", "FBI fscks SG!", "Bush bones goth erotica site!"). But today, SG's Missy explains that the image takedown wasn't the result of contact by the FBI or any other authorities -- the site's management simply chose to pre-emptively remove certain photos. Missy tells Boing Boing: While we do not believe any of our images are illegal, SG has removed a number of images in order to ensure that we are not targeted by the U.S. Government's new "War on Porn." We have received no formal government notice to remove these images, however, in the course of our involvement, as witnesses, in a federal criminal prosecution that does not target SG, we have been made aware of the risks posting such content poses the owners of the company. Given the U.S. Attorney General Alberto Gonzales' new war on porn task force and it's intent to bring obscenity charges against their loosely defined "Deviant" imagery, we have removed any images with fake blood and any images we felt could be wrongfully construed as sadist or masochist. Given the natural disasters in Louisiana and Texas, the U.S. Government's numerous foreign war's and the growing U.S. deficit, we feel there are far better uses of government resources then pursuing the legality of imagery created by consenting adults, but as is usually the case, our opinions are not shared by the Current U.S. Administration. Also, we really miss Bill Clinton. Proprietors of websites, adult and otherwise, make content management decisions each day. Porn and erotica site owners make decisions each day about what forms of sexually explicit material they'll publish. None of that is news. But as the current US administration's anti-porn activities unfold in months to come, many adult site proprietors will consider the increasingly hostile political climate when making those decisions. Some will continue with porn-business as usual. Others will effectively censor themselves to minimize potential legal risk exposure. That's called a chilling effect. But did the FBI force Suicide Girls to remove their pictures? (mmm, that sounds kinda naughty, actually) -- for the bloggy record, the answer is no. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France

09-29-2005, 08:36 AM	#25 (permalink)
ScottKuma Insane Location: Maineville, OH	After reading the linked entry from Olivia and the replies thereto, I think it wasn't just our Vice President who needed to get some jerks removed from his knees. Man, people see ANY kind of anti-Bush post ANYWHERE and it's just "Jump on the bandwagon" time!! Bush ain't my favorite (and I voted for him...), he's certainly no hero/saint, but he ain't my least favorite prez, either. I just get really really ticked at the relative black/white (not race, but as in one side or the other) state of politics in the USA lately. There's no room for shades of grey. And in my opinion, somewhere firmly ensconced within those shades of grey is where the truth lies. __________________ A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have. -Gerald R. Ford GoogleMap Me

09-29-2005, 10:52 AM	#26 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I'd much rather tie up a hot tattooed 19yr old then look at a picture of one. Move on... nothing to see here... __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown