Christmas break vs Winter Break - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

maleficent · 08-18-2005, 04:02 PM

Winter vs. Christmas break _ hot issue in South Kitsap schools

Quote:

PORT ORCHARD, Wash. -- Debate over what to call the holiday period in late December and early January is roiling the South Kitsap School Board.

In May the panel voted 4 to 1 to rename it from Winter Break to Christmas Break. On Monday night, responding to a public uproar of e-mail and letters to the editor, the board voted unanimously to restore the name as Winter Break.

"I've heard from a lot of parents on both sides," board member Patty Henderson said, "but what I've heard most of all is that there are more important issues than this."

Henderson was joined by Keith Garton, Christopher Lemke and then-board president Jim Huff in switching to Christmas Break three months ago.

Huff, who resigned from the board a few weeks later because of back problems, branded those who favored Winter Break "Howard Dean wannabes."

More than 70 people attended the heated session at a room in Port Orchard Elementary School. The board allowed 45 minutes of public comment.

"I believe it's going to lead to an exodus from the schools," said Ron Boehme, one of the Christians who argued against calling it Winter Break.

"It's a seasonable description, comparable to summer break," countered Nancy Levin. "I think it's a shame that Mr. Huff chose to leave the board with this parting shot that he knew full well would create a divisive mess for no educational reason."

Anyone wanna move to Port Orchard

So, does calling it winter break lead to an exodus from public schools?

There was a woman interviewed on the news tonite, saying she really didn't care because there were much more important things to worry about... I guess her attitude isn't newsworthy though :\

uncle phil · 08-18-2005, 04:11 PM

/me wonders how many of these people have evergreens with lights on them in their living rooms the last couple of weeks in december...

Elphaba · 08-18-2005, 04:30 PM

This is "local" news for me. "Winter" break is back. Many of the fundamentalist &/or evangelical christians home school their children in Port Orchard, but they needed to make some sort of protest in the public school system that they don't allow their children to attend.

Seems terribly political to me to impose your religious beliefs upon a public school system that your own children don't participate in. I know of many of the people involved in this nonsense due to an orphanage that I once volunteered for.

Elphaba · 08-18-2005, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncle phil

/me wonders how many of these people have evergreens with lights on them in their living rooms the last couple of weeks in december...

Deleted: I was mocking people I know, and it gave me a sick feeling about myself.

Grasshopper Green · 08-18-2005, 04:38 PM

I think the most important point of the article is this: "I've heard from a lot of parents on both sides," board member Patty Henderson said, "but what I've heard most of all is that there are more important issues than this."

This reminds me of the parents that were bitching because red pen marks on their children's papers were too damaging to their self esteem or some such nonsense; how about we worry about things like....who's child is coming to school hungry, and why don't we have enough books, and why are said books 20 years old, and why are PE classes being cut while obesity in children is drastically rising? I guess Christmas is much more important than that

shesus · 08-18-2005, 05:21 PM

Medusa, I am standing right behind you on that. The parents never worry about the things that are most important to their child's education. At my school, the parents will throw a fit if there isn't a dance for their kids. Forget about the bad grades and behavior problems and out-dated material and I could go on. Sorry if I participated in thread-jacking there, but that issue makes my blood boil.

On the issue of the name of the break, I don't think it is a big deal. I know that there are many people out their who are not Christians and that is the reason behind not calling it Christmas break. I can't even have my students color reindeer, Santa, or anything else Christmas related unless I also teach Kwanzaa, Hanukah, and the other one, forgive me I forget it now. So I do a unit called Winter Holidays Around the World. Doesn't bother me and it is quite interesting. I have always called that break the Holiday Break because it is whatever celebration you take part in and New Year's.

amonkie · 08-18-2005, 06:42 PM

My family is in the area, I heard about this from them as well. If the other breaks are coined as Summer, Fall, and Spring Break, having a Winter Break seems more than appropriate. Why the name of a time when a child is not in school is enough to make a board member resign raises my eyebrow...

Elphaba · 08-18-2005, 06:56 PM

Exactly. Pushing an unpopular agenda might do that.

Gilda · 08-18-2005, 07:30 PM

Oh Shesus: I do Christmas, Channukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, and Tet in my study of winter holidays around the world.

We normally break for about two weeks right at the start of Winter. Christmas is only one day in that time, two if you count Christmas Eve. Calling it holiday break or winter break is not only more sensitive to non-Christians, it's more accurate.

Gilda

analog · 08-18-2005, 07:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa99

This reminds me of the parents that were bitching because red pen marks on their children's papers were too damaging to their self esteem or some such nonsense; how about we worry about things like....who's child is coming to school hungry, and why don't we have enough books, and why are said books 20 years old, and why are PE classes being cut while obesity in children is drastically rising? I guess Christmas is much more important than that

EXACTLY! THANK YOU!!

If nothing else, it's not like in some cases where there is a secular and religious description for soemthing... and the secular one doesn't do it justice... it's a break IN WINTER... who gives a flying shit?? Just let them name it WINTER break, and you can go back to picketing with pics of butchered fetuses on your plackard in front of abortion clinics.

If I were there, I would tell a pro-"winter break" person, "if you are really that concerned with what it's called, you are LOST. STOP using GOD as an excuse because YOU are LOST and have nothing else in your life to do."

*sighs* Damn it.

thatoneguy · 08-18-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa99

This reminds me of the parents that were bitching because red pen marks on their children's papers were too damaging to their self esteem or some such nonsense; how about we worry about things like....who's child is coming to school hungry, and why don't we have enough books, and why are said books 20 years old, and why are PE classes being cut while obesity in children is drastically rising? I guess Christmas is much more important than that

Exactly, or like the people who get in a huge uproar over things like the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance... I just don't understand the huge deal about it. Obviously I can see why maybe some people wouldn't like it... but is it really that huge of a deal to where there should be protests and petitions and things like that? Maybe we should pay teachers more or like Medusa said, actually HAVE materials that aren't 20 years old... it just doesn't make sense to me.

Some people have too much time on their hands and they fill it with pointless crusades.

BigBen · 08-19-2005, 07:10 AM

You guys are getting pretty upset in the response to this article, and the emotions seem to be centred around a central theme

"Why would anyone get upset about this / why would someone waste their time in persuing something so small when there are big problems around?"

I'll let you in on a secret... It is something that people can control. Especially when naming something, people can change it, and see the results of their work. It takes very little prolonged effort or dedication.

If I tried to change the kids physical activity levels so that they don't turn into chubby fat asses, or if I try to change the curriculum so that they don't become mouth-breathing idiots, THAT TAKES EFFORT. A Lot of effort, over a long period of time. And even if I DO succeed,

1. I can't accurately quantify the results
2. The results can not be linked back definitely to my hard work
3. It takes continuous effort to maintain the change.

If I change the name of a fucking holiday:

1. I can see the results. People will write it down in newsletters and on calendars.
2. I did it. Not someone else, but me. That was my work that changed it.
3. It takes little or no work to maintain the change.

That is why people worry about the little things and ignore the big stuff. It is something that they can control.

Any other questions?

ShaniFaye · 08-19-2005, 07:32 AM

This may or may not have any bearing, but its what popped in my head....How many non believers complain about having Christmas day off...paid? (yes I know some people dont, but in a LOT of compaines this is one of the days the company gives you off and pays you for it) I dont hear any of the "non believers" complaining about that!!

Redlemon · 08-19-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

This may or may not have any bearing, but its what popped in my head....How many non believers complain about having Christmas day off...paid? (yes I know some people dont, but in a LOT of compaines this is one of the days the company gives you off and pays you for it) I dont hear any of the "non believers" complaining about that!!

How many people just goof off or go shopping on Labor Day and Memorial Day?

ShaniFaye · 08-19-2005, 08:16 AM

Probably a lot, RL, but neither of those holidays has a religious implication like Christmas. I dont think I've heard of anyone complaining about what those holidays are called.

Redlemon · 08-19-2005, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

Probably a lot, RL, but neither of those holidays has a religious implication like Christmas. I dont think I've heard of anyone complaining about what those holidays are called.

Ah, I was following the "getting the day off without believing" part of your statement.

shesus · 08-19-2005, 09:13 AM

BigBen made a good point about being able to control the situation and see an immediate result. Changing most things in education takes time. People are very impatient and want to see results NOW. Along with impatience is also laziness. There are people who do try to make changes in curriculum and such, but when the people that have to implement it want immediate results, it falls apart. Unfortunately, from what I have seen in education, everyone wants to complain, but very few take an initiative to cause a change. However, changing the wording of a break is quick and immediate. Well, that's over, what is the next quick resolving debate are they going to have? They have to find something or the real issues will raise there head and they don't want to spend time and energy on that.

/me is stopping now before sounding more cynical and jaded

snowy · 08-19-2005, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maleficent

Anyone wanna move to Port Orchard

My mom does. No, not really...but she goes there nearly every day to run errands (my parents live verrry close to there, so this is local news).

As far as I know, most other school districts in the area call their break "winter break," and as far as I'm concerned all of those parents can ship their kids to private Christian school up in Bremerton or open up a school of their own. South Kitsap really doesn't need any more students

MSD · 08-19-2005, 07:01 PM

I'll bet that every one of the kids in that school district doesn't give a shit what it's called and just likes having ten days off from school.

basmoq · 08-21-2005, 05:17 PM

This reminds me of my show-choir "Charisma" 7 years ago, we had always called our Christmas performance "Christmas with Charisma" due to the overwhelmingly 100% Christmas songs we were performing, but some jewish girls parents brought a lawsuit against us due to the name in a public school, even though there daughter objected violently and was herself a member of the show-choir...

bad jane · 08-21-2005, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShaniFaye

This may or may not have any bearing, but its what popped in my head....How many non believers complain about having Christmas day off...paid? (yes I know some people dont, but in a LOT of compaines this is one of the days the company gives you off and pays you for it) I dont hear any of the "non believers" complaining about that!!

you might if you spoke with non-christians who can't get their holidays off.

on a related note to that, my bf celebrates the sabbath on saturday, not sunday. finding employers willing to give you every sunday off for religious reasons is a lot easier than finding ones willing to give you friday evening through saturday evening off.

regarding the christmas vs winter break. i'm in the "who gives a crap" camp. people will call it whatever they want regardless of what the school refers to it as. we didn't have "spring break" till i was in high school--prior to that, it was easter break. it didn't matter that the school changed the name, to this day people call it easter break.

08-18-2005, 04:11 PM	#2 (permalink)
uncle phil comfortably numb... Super Moderator Location: upstate	/me wonders how many of these people have evergreens with lights on them in their living rooms the last couple of weeks in december... __________________ "We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it.

08-18-2005, 04:38 PM	#5 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I think the most important point of the article is this: "I've heard from a lot of parents on both sides," board member Patty Henderson said, "but what I've heard most of all is that there are more important issues than this." This reminds me of the parents that were bitching because red pen marks on their children's papers were too damaging to their self esteem or some such nonsense; how about we worry about things like....who's child is coming to school hungry, and why don't we have enough books, and why are said books 20 years old, and why are PE classes being cut while obesity in children is drastically rising? I guess Christmas is much more important than that __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

08-18-2005, 05:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	Medusa, I am standing right behind you on that. The parents never worry about the things that are most important to their child's education. At my school, the parents will throw a fit if there isn't a dance for their kids. Forget about the bad grades and behavior problems and out-dated material and I could go on. Sorry if I participated in thread-jacking there, but that issue makes my blood boil. On the issue of the name of the break, I don't think it is a big deal. I know that there are many people out their who are not Christians and that is the reason behind not calling it Christmas break. I can't even have my students color reindeer, Santa, or anything else Christmas related unless I also teach Kwanzaa, Hanukah, and the other one, forgive me I forget it now. So I do a unit called Winter Holidays Around the World. Doesn't bother me and it is quite interesting. I have always called that break the Holiday Break because it is whatever celebration you take part in and New Year's. __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-18-2005, 06:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
amonkie Drifting Administrator Location: Windy City	My family is in the area, I heard about this from them as well. If the other breaks are coined as Summer, Fall, and Spring Break, having a Winter Break seems more than appropriate. Why the name of a time when a child is not in school is enough to make a board member resign raises my eyebrow... __________________ Calling from deep in the heart, from where the eyes can't see and the ears can't hear, from where the mountain trails end and only love can go... ~~~ Three Rivers Hare Krishna

08-18-2005, 07:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Gilda 32 flavors and then some Location: Out on a wire.	Oh Shesus: I do Christmas, Channukah, Kwanzaa, Ramadan, and Tet in my study of winter holidays around the world. We normally break for about two weeks right at the start of Winter. Christmas is only one day in that time, two if you count Christmas Eve. Calling it holiday break or winter break is not only more sensitive to non-Christians, it's more accurate. Gilda __________________ I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert

08-18-2005, 04:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	This is "local" news for me. "Winter" break is back. Many of the fundamentalist &/or evangelical christians home school their children in Port Orchard, but they needed to make some sort of protest in the public school system that they don't allow their children to attend. Seems terribly political to me to impose your religious beliefs upon a public school system that your own children don't participate in. I know of many of the people involved in this nonsense due to an orphanage that I once volunteered for.

08-18-2005, 06:56 PM	#8 (permalink)
Elphaba Deja Moo Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA	Exactly. Pushing an unpopular agenda might do that.

08-19-2005, 07:10 AM	#12 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	You guys are getting pretty upset in the response to this article, and the emotions seem to be centred around a central theme "Why would anyone get upset about this / why would someone waste their time in persuing something so small when there are big problems around?" I'll let you in on a secret... It is something that people can control. Especially when naming something, people can change it, and see the results of their work. It takes very little prolonged effort or dedication. If I tried to change the kids physical activity levels so that they don't turn into chubby fat asses, or if I try to change the curriculum so that they don't become mouth-breathing idiots, THAT TAKES EFFORT. A Lot of effort, over a long period of time. And even if I DO succeed, 1. I can't accurately quantify the results 2. The results can not be linked back definitely to my hard work 3. It takes continuous effort to maintain the change. If I change the name of a fucking holiday: 1. I can see the results. People will write it down in newsletters and on calendars. 2. I did it. Not someone else, but me. That was my work that changed it. 3. It takes little or no work to maintain the change. That is why people worry about the little things and ignore the big stuff. It is something that they can control. Any other questions? __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

08-19-2005, 07:32 AM	#13 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	This may or may not have any bearing, but its what popped in my head....How many non believers complain about having Christmas day off...paid? (yes I know some people dont, but in a LOT of compaines this is one of the days the company gives you off and pays you for it) I dont hear any of the "non believers" complaining about that!! __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-19-2005, 08:16 AM	#15 (permalink)
ShaniFaye Submit to me, you know you want to Location: Lilburn, Ga	Probably a lot, RL, but neither of those holidays has a religious implication like Christmas. I dont think I've heard of anyone complaining about what those holidays are called. __________________ *I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!*

08-19-2005, 09:13 AM	#17 (permalink)
shesus Fancy Location: Chicago	BigBen made a good point about being able to control the situation and see an immediate result. Changing most things in education takes time. People are very impatient and want to see results NOW. Along with impatience is also laziness. There are people who do try to make changes in curriculum and such, but when the people that have to implement it want immediate results, it falls apart. Unfortunately, from what I have seen in education, everyone wants to complain, but very few take an initiative to cause a change. However, changing the wording of a break is quick and immediate. Well, that's over, what is the next quick resolving debate are they going to have? They have to find something or the real issues will raise there head and they don't want to spend time and energy on that. /me is stopping now before sounding more cynical and jaded __________________ Whatever did happen to your soul? I heard you sold it Choose Heaven for the weather and Hell for the company

08-19-2005, 07:01 PM	#19 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	I'll bet that every one of the kids in that school district doesn't give a shit what it's called and just likes having ten days off from school.

08-21-2005, 05:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
basmoq It's a girly girl! Location: OH, USA	This reminds me of my show-choir "Charisma" 7 years ago, we had always called our Christmas performance "Christmas with Charisma" due to the overwhelmingly 100% Christmas songs we were performing, but some jewish girls parents brought a lawsuit against us due to the name in a public school, even though there daughter objected violently and was herself a member of the show-choir... __________________ "There's someone out there for everyone - even if you need a pickaxe, a compass, and night goggles to find them."