5 year old girl handcuffed in school - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

sixate · 04-26-2005, 03:19 PM

Linky

Quote:

Video shows police handcuffing 5-year-old

ST. PETERSBURG - Videotape was rolling March 14 when the 5-year-old girl swung again and again, her bantam punches landing on the outstretched palms of Nicole Dibenedetto, the new assistant principal at Fairmount Park Elementary.

She tore papers off Dibenedetto's bulletin board and desk. She climbed on a table four times. About an hour had passed since she refused to participate in a kindergarten math lesson, which escalated into a series of defiant and destructive acts.

Dibenedetto had used tactics from a Pinellas school district training called Crisis Prevention Intervention:

Let the child know her actions have consequences but also try to "de-escalate."

Give her opportunities to end the conflict.

Try not to touch her, defend yourself and make sure no one else gets hurt.

As St. Petersburg police officers arrived shortly after 3 p.m., the girl suddenly sat quietly at Dibenedetto's table. And, just as suddenly, the tactics used by educators gave way to the more direct approach of law enforcement.

An officer sternly said the girl's name. Then: "You need to calm down. You need to do it now. OK?"

Seconds later, three officers approached and placed their hands on the girl's wrists and upper arms. They stood her up, put her arms behind her back and put on handcuffs. She bent over the table and let out a terrified scream.

"No. Nooooo. Ahhhhh."

The tape ends there.

Largo lawyer John Trevena provided it to the St. Petersburg Times this week after obtaining it from police.

"The image itself will be seared into people's minds when you have three police officers bending a child over a table and forcibly handcuffing her," said Trevena, who represents the girl's mother, Inga Akins. "It's incomprehensible ... She was sitting calmly at the table. There was no need for that."

The Police Department declined to comment, citing an official complaint by Akins that has sparked an investigation by the supervisor of the four officers involved. Two are new officers who were being trained that day. Police spokesman Bill Proffitt said the investigation would be complete in about two weeks and the findings would be made public.

The tape's existence is a fluke. The girl's teacher, Christina Ottersbach, was videotaping her class as a self-improvement exercise, district officials have said. Educators simply kept the camera rolling when the girl began to act out, prompting Dibenedetto to intervene and Ottersbach to escort her other students to another classroom.

Later, Ottersbach retrieved the camera from the classroom when the girl began to make a mess of Dibenedetto's office.

The tape, which lasts about 30 minutes, begins with Dibenedetto alone in the classroom with the girl, saying the child's name frequently as part of her commands.

"You need to stop," she tells her, using her hands to make the sign language signal for stop. "You don't get to wreck the room."

Using her radio, she calls for help from teacher Patti Tsaousis. She also asks the school office to call the girl's mother and tell her the school will have to call Pinellas Schools police if the behavior continues.

Word comes back that the mother would not be able to make it until 3:15 p.m. It is shortly after 2 p.m.

A short time later, the girl is heard off camera breaking a ceramic or plastic apple on Ottersbach's desk.

"Oh, you broke her apple," Dibenedetto says. "That is so sad."

Throughout the 23-minute segment in the classroom, the assistant principal tells the girl many times to stop, that her actions are "not acceptable." She tells her she needs to take her to her office to prepare for her mother's arrival.

The girl responds to each request with a curt, "No." When the girl reaches out to strike them at times, Dibenedetto and Tsaousis tell her to stop and hold their hands up in defense.

Dibenedetto and Tsaousis have two breakthroughs - once when they persuade the girl to clean up a small mess she made near Ottersbach's office and another when they finally get her to leave the classroom with them.

In the second instance, Dibenedetto brings herself to eye level with the girl and tries to get her to talk about why she's upset. She gives the girl the option of walking with her or Tsaousis to the office. When the girl relents, the educators praise her for making an "excellent choice."

The Times interviewed several top educators, including two district officials who had seen the video and two professors at the University of South Florida's College of Education.

All praised Dibenedetto for using patience and good training in a tough situation. They said she gave the girl wide latitude to opt for better behavior, used clear commands, called for help from another educator, removed the other students from the room for their safety and to eliminate an audience for the girl, reinforced commands with hand motions and successfully avoided physical confrontation.

Touching the girl, they said, would have escalated the situation.

The two educators "can't control what the children do, but they can control how they respond to it and, to me, they responded admirably," said Robert Egley, an assistant education professor at USF in St. Petersburg. "I give them an A-plus."

Trevena, the lawyer, disagreed, saying it appeared to him the two educators followed the girl too closely around the room. "It almost seemed like there was an intent to provoke the child," he said.

Akins, the girl's mother, said she had complained to the school about the assistant principal's treatment of her daughter. She said the administrator has been too harsh with the girl. The police had been called to the school at least once before in response to the girl's behavior. The girl has since transferred to another public school.

Dibenedetto could not be reached Thursday for comment.

More clear cut, Trevena said, are the police officers' actions and the Police Department's reaction. "It should have been denounced (by department higher-ups) as absurd, as excessive," he said. "That, I think, is even more alarming."

After being placed in the back of a police cruiser, police released the girl to her mother after the State Attorney's Office informed them a 5-year-old would never be prosecuted.

Educators declined to discuss the Police Department's role in the incident. But they all agreed that once police are called to a school, the situation is theirs to run. "I wasn't physically there," said Mike Bessette, an area superintendent whose responsibility includes Fairmount Park Elementary. "I take it they felt they needed to do what they did."

If you follow the link at the top there are a few video clips of what happened in the classroom. Please take the time to watch them so you have a better idea of what happened. I first saw this on the news this morning when I was at work, and I was curious to see if anyone had posted it. So I came home ran a quick search, and came up with nothing. Now, I'm wondering how many people think that handcuffing an out of control child is outrageous? Or think that something other than trying to reason with or restrain the child would have actually worked... From what I have seen I think that child should still be sitting in jail. I also think the parent/parents should be sitting in the same jail cell as the child and be forced to teach their child how to act appropriately because it has obviously never been done. Any parent that would actually defend their child in this situation is a complete idiot, and shouldn't be allowed to have a child. I think the school did the right thing. In a day and age where you can sue over any bullshit thing, you must call the cops. Because if that child would've been hit or fell and injured herself the parent/parents would sue the shit out of someone, and a teacher/teachers would lose their job/jobs.

I'm mostly interested in hearing the womens views on this. Because most women here think it's OK to hit their boyfriend/husband and not get hit back because of a huge size factor, which is complete bullshit, but we've all already discussed that so I'll stop now. Here is the same size factor... Now how many of you would hit this kid even though you could easily restrain her? Or would you hit your own child for acting out like that?

TexanAvenger · 04-26-2005, 03:27 PM

I really can't imagine the need for anybody to forcibly handcuff a 5 year old. Much less why they would feel that it took 3 grown men to do it...

The kid was being a snotty punk, was acting (for the most part) without reason, but does that excuse the use of force on a kid like that? No. Most kids act like that at some point, but they don't get cuffed for it .

martinguerre · 04-26-2005, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixate

From what I have seen I think that child should still be sitting in jail

Quote:

5-year-old girl

'Nuff said. However frustrating dealing with this behavior must have been, there were ways of containing it. The response you validate is extremely out of proportion to her age.

shakran · 04-26-2005, 03:28 PM

the kid was being a little shit.

That said, she's a child. They weren't arresting her, so the handcuffs were to keep her from injuring people.

She's FIVE.

If three big cops and an educator were afraid of being hurt by a five year old, they need to find a new line of work.

Did the kid need to be calmed down? No question.

Did the kid need to be slammed on a table and cuffed? Hell no.

You want to jail a five year old for throwing a temper tantrum? Are you serious? Kids throw tantrums. Throwing them in the slammer is NOT the way to deal with it.

Coppertop · 04-26-2005, 03:36 PM

That teacher displayed serious restraint and patience. I would not have had that much restraint had that been my kid or were I the teacher - I guess that's why I don't have children and am not a teacher.

*Nikki* · 04-26-2005, 03:41 PM

I think the handcuffing was not done bc it was needed but to teach the child a lesson.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with how this was handled.

Coppertop · 04-26-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I think the handcuffing was not done bc it was needed but to teach the child a lesson.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with how this was handled.

Exactly. The child showed no respect to the school staff but certainly did for the police. Upon seeing the police she sat down and behaved as she should have been doing in the first place. Hopefully now she'll take instructions from school officials seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

Did the kid need to be slammed on a table and cuffed? Hell no.

She wasn't "slammed" on the table. What video were you watching?

CMH · 04-26-2005, 03:46 PM

This country is so pathetic. I mean, it's a five year old kid and they have to evacuate the classroom and call the cops. She should have been drug out of the classroom and spanked.

kutulu · 04-26-2005, 03:48 PM

5 year old kids are not aware enough of their actions for an arrest to be justified. Likewise, parents cannot be held accountable for their children's actions. If the school wanted to expel the kid, fine, but even that is too extreme. The kid (and the parents) need counselling.

jorgelito · 04-26-2005, 04:11 PM

The kid was way out of line. The police showed remarkable restraint and deserve a Medal of Honor for their outstanding handling of the situation. I would have even been tolerant of their using mace which would have been way more than justified.

The teacher should get an immediate raise and a Medal of Honor. What was she to do? She handled it perfectly. We have tied their hands folks. She had no choice but to call security. Like the poster above, a spanking in the hallway or better yet, in front of the other kids would have put an end to it right away. But then their maniac parents would have complained too.

Children are coddled way too much. Fine or jail the parents too for wasting taxpayers money. Parents MUST be accountable for their actions. Kids are way out of control these days.

Sage · 04-26-2005, 04:15 PM

You know what is bullshit? The lawyer saying that the educators were "trying to provoke the child." The kid is five, she's being snotty. And as to parents being held responsible for their kids' actions, well, when the kids are old enough to know what they're doing, yeah, parents shouldn't be held responsible. However, if your five year old doesn't know how to behave, your parental skills should be called into questioning, because obviously they aren't effective.

Da Munk · 04-26-2005, 04:27 PM

The teachers and administration weren't allowed to do anything and the kid knew it. Putting her in handcuffs hopefully showed her that if you act like a little brat, there are consequences. Maybe next time she'll listen when her teachers tell her to stop.

Carno · 04-26-2005, 04:46 PM

I don't think it was necessary for the cops to have shown up, the teachers should have been able to handle it. In my opinion, those were shitty teachers. When I went to grade school, if I acted that way I would have been spanked. At the very least yelled at. And I would have gotten double that when I got home. So did I ever act like that little kid? Hell no.

Well, I guess it wasn't really the teachers fault. In this day and age they were probably wise to try not to touch the kid. But if/when I have kids, you can believe that they will be punished for being bad, not coddled.

keyshawn · 04-26-2005, 05:00 PM

Can someone please provide a direct link to the video ? Firefox isn't liking their html that much....

mokle · 04-26-2005, 05:01 PM

A good smack would have calmed her down might fast.

radioguy · 04-26-2005, 05:05 PM

as a teacher, i can't do anything physical to the child, neither can the principal. i have no problem with the cops putting her in handcuffs to protect themselves and the child from hitting others. i know a 5 year old could not hurt a grown-up, but after being hit, the grown-ups could have reacted in a negative way and possibly hurt the child. kids know that teachers and principals can't do anything to them. it's up to the parents to teach the children respect and self-control. a teacher can only do so much. the teacher did a DAMN GOOD job at attempting to calm the child down. kudos to her and kudos to the police for having the guts to do this to the girl. i hope the officers and school district don't get sued over this, they don't deserve that. the parent deserves some type of punishment for not teaching/controlling their child.

MooseMan3000 · 04-26-2005, 05:08 PM

Alright, just to clarify a few things that obviously didn't get through.

1) They're campus police. They weren't arresting her, they were cuffing her so she didn't do any more damage.

2) The cops weren't AFRAID of her. They used three people to cuff her in order NOT TO HURT HER. Of course one person could do it, but that would involve throwing her on the ground, holding her arms behind her back with one hand and cuffing with the other. That might be painful for her.

Of course she deserved it. This is the second time that the administrators have called the campus police on this child. She was informed clearly that it was going to happen, and she persisted in being a little shit.Technically, she COULD have been arrested, because she purposely destroyed private property, but they didn't feel that was necessary. They were just going to remove her from the building and keep her there until the mother arrived and they could speak with her - perfectly reasonable.

More importantly, the mother is to blame here. The teachers at this school are obviously very lenient in doling out punishment - that tantrum went on for at LEAST the 6 minutes of the tape in the class, and the 5 in the office, probably longer. And all the teacher did to her the entire time was tell her to stop. "We're not allowed to destroy the room." The mother complained that the principal treated the child too harshly... I don't believe that for one god damned minute. If this video is representative of the incident the mother was talking about, she needs to get a fucking life.

The child hasn't been taught how to behave, and she has never been taught to respect, well, anything. She needs some tough love, and since the mother obviously isn't giving her any, the school has to step up. End of story.

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by keyshawn

Can someone please provide a direct link to the video ? Firefox isn't liking their html that much....
__________________

Classroom
and
Assistant Principal's Office

I personally had to load it in IE to get the videos to run. The Quicktime plugin didn't like them in Firefox, for whatever reason.

StickODynomite · 04-26-2005, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *Nikki*

I think the handcuffing was not done bc it was needed but to teach the child a lesson.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with how this was handled.

I completely agree.

Who said she was 'slammed' ? She wasn't 'slammed' against the table..let's not get dramatic, and she sure wasn't the victim, for cryin out loud.. she was out of control.

No kid should ever act out like that, there's some serious lack of discipline in that house for sure. She had no respect for anyone, and regardless of her age.. she needed to be contained and she needed to calm down before she hurt herself.

Grasshopper Green · 04-26-2005, 05:15 PM

The outrageous thing is that it got to this point in the first place. Parents don't discipline their kid, the kid goes to school and acts like this, and society has placed so many restrictions on teachers that they can't touch the kid when he/she gets out of control or else the teacher could be fired and definitely sued. Were the cuffs needed? No. (And the cops were NOT overly forceful, either) But perhaps they gave the kid a taste of discipline that she obviously isn't getting at home.

shakran · 04-26-2005, 05:17 PM

people we are talking about a five year old, not a fifteen year old. Rare would be the occasion that you had just cause to cuff a five year old.

I'm not excusing her behavior, it was atrocious.

But a five year old throwing a tantrum is hardly an unusual event. Cops are not needed. Period.

StickODynomite · 04-26-2005, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

people we are talking about a five year old, not a fifteen year old. Rare would be the occasion that you had just cause to cuff a five year old.

I'm not excusing her behavior, it was atrocious.

But a five year old throwing a tantrum is hardly an unusual event. Cops are not needed. Period.

I dont know about you, but I haven't seen any 5 y/o anywhere throwing a 'tantrum' like that. I know the cops weren't 'needed' but this roots into obvious lack of discipline and i think it taught her a lesson. I'm sure the cuffs were used to keep her from hurting herself. Some of you are thinking that just because she's 5 that the cuffs were excessive force or something of the sort, but all it did was keep her arms and fists from flying..she couldn't throw objects with her hands cuffed, which is better for everyone-- hands down.

cellophanedeity · 04-26-2005, 05:31 PM

I think that the teachers did an excellent job of handling the situation. There's not much that you can do to discipline a child if you're a teacher. It's obvious that this girl was aware of what police mean, and so she calmed down then.

I don't think this child should be in a public school. She (and probably her parents) has definite emotional issues that we cannot hold a public educator responsible for dealing with.

What should be done instead, if you do think that this was too harsh?

StanT · 04-26-2005, 06:04 PM

I'd sentence the mom to a year of probation with mandatory parenting classes. That behavior is inexcusable. Personally, I would have spanked the kid. I think the teachers did an excellent job given their constraints.

sixate · 04-26-2005, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

people we are talking about a five year old, not a fifteen year old. Rare would be the occasion that you had just cause to cuff a five year old.

I'm not excusing her behavior, it was atrocious.

But a five year old throwing a tantrum is hardly an unusual event. Cops are not needed. Period.

What do you want the teachers to do? Spank/beat the child?
I'm sure that the child's useless parents would love that because then they could sue the fuck out of the school and get paid an assload of cash for being useless parents. Is that a better alternative? I think not....

StormBerlin · 04-26-2005, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexanAvenger

I really can't imagine the need for anybody to forcibly handcuff a 5 year old. Much less why they would feel that it took 3 grown men to do it...

The kid was being a snotty punk, was acting (for the most part) without reason, but does that excuse the use of force on a kid like that? No. Most kids act like that at some point, but they don't get cuffed for it .

I would have tazered her for it. I'm only half kidding. I think this is one of the few times I'm going to agree with sixate

That childs behavior was unnacceptable and hopefully she has now learned that actions have consequences.

la petite moi · 04-26-2005, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMH

This country is so pathetic. I mean, it's a five year old kid and they have to evacuate the classroom and call the cops. She should have been drug out of the classroom and spanked.

Unfortunately, if any adult were to lay a hand on a child besides his/her parents, they could be sued/arrested/etc. This is because of true menaces to society, like child molestors and abusers.

Police officers instill fear in children, since they know Mommy and Daddy are under police officers' power (getting a ticket, etc). My Political Science teacher was just saying today that the other day, he was eating breakfast with his family when a sheriff in full uniform say down to eat next to my prof's family. After seeing her parents being pulled over at least twice, his daughter quickly jumped into my professor's lap and would not budge.

Bringing in the big boys for something like that was justified. I'm sure it will teach her a good lesson, and she'll have a wicked tale to tell to her friends when she gets older.

"Dude, when I was five, police officers cuffed me because I was an irritating, psycho shit."

liquidlight · 04-26-2005, 06:44 PM

I've got a 5-year-old, and having seen the video and read this I think Mooseman has it just right.

My children get spankings when they get out of line, and personally if I had the power when my daughter starts school in the fall I would give her teacher the right to do the same. This entire episode stems from a complete lack of respect for anything, she knows the teachers can't do anything and I think it's dispicable that her mother's reaction is to get a lawyer!

Personally if my children were ever to throw a tantrum like that, especially in school where the poor teachers aren't paid enough as it is, I would welcome the police putting them in handcuffs in the hopes that it would make the point that the behavior is completely inexcusable. Then I would have a hard time apologizing enough to those poor educators for my children having subjected them to such a disruptive, disrespectful, and unnecessary outburst.

I think her and her mother need to grow the hell up before we make another situation where we tell everybody else that this type of behavior is acceptable and it's the cops that are at fault and not this 5-year-old.

greeneyes · 04-26-2005, 06:50 PM

I like StanT's idea of parenting classes because that is the real problem here. Of course the mother thinks the assistant principal was being too harsh, Dibenedetto actually told the girl no which is probably more than mom ever did.

I think it's a shame that this girl has been shuffled off to another school. I understand that since there is an investigation that is probably the best course of action, but I think it might perpetuate the problem.

I hope neither the teachers nor the officers are disciplined for this in the least.

slant eyes · 04-26-2005, 07:09 PM

god. i love kids and thought i had the utmost patience for them, but this video proves me wrong. i would have loved to slapped the kid silly.

that aside, i think the principal did an excellent job all around. cuffing her was necessary and they did, imho, everything great. sad to say, after watching the entirety of both clips, i was really glad she started crying.

rest assured fellow tfp'ers, if my kid acts out of line this way, i will smack the crap out of them, and to do society a favor, each and every one of you is allowed to as well.

MSD · 04-26-2005, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixate

Linky
I'm mostly interested in hearing the womens views on this. Because most women here think it's OK to hit their boyfriend/husband and not get hit back because of a huge size factor, which is complete bullshit, but we've all already discussed that so I'll stop now. Here is the same size factor... Now how many of you would hit this kid even though you could easily restrain her? Or would you hit your own child for acting out like that?

The authorities were right to restrain the child, and would not have been wrong if they had held her back. The parents should have disciplined the child better so as to avoid this kind of incident. I would not physically punish a child past spanking or a light slap on the hand or cheek that would not cause any damage. The parents should be punished by the legal system for negligent upbringing of the child.

sixate · 04-26-2005, 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by liquidlight

I've got a 5-year-old, and having seen the video and read this I think Mooseman has it just right.

My children get spankings when they get out of line, and personally if I had the power when my daughter starts school in the fall I would give her teacher the right to do the same. This entire episode stems from a complete lack of respect for anything, she knows the teachers can't do anything and I think it's dispicable that her mother's reaction is to get a lawyer!

Personally if my children were ever to throw a tantrum like that, especially in school where the poor teachers aren't paid enough as it is, I would welcome the police putting them in handcuffs in the hopes that it would make the point that the behavior is completely inexcusable. Then I would have a hard time apologizing enough to those poor educators for my children having subjected them to such a disruptive, disrespectful, and unnecessary outburst.

I think her and her mother need to grow the hell up before we make another situation where we tell everybody else that this type of behavior is acceptable and it's the cops that are at fault and not this 5-year-old.

See, there are actually parents who feel they are responsible for their children's actions.
*applause*

greeneyes · 04-26-2005, 07:14 PM

For all of you that say this child should be slapped/spanked/what have you, I disagree. I think she needs a lot of patience and firmness, and not the kind that comes from your hand.

dirtyrascal7 (my boyfriend and fellow TFPer) is an absolutely excellent example of a person who was brought up with no physical violence whatsoever. He was brought up to respect others and his parents were firm, but not physical. You know what he is today? A well-adjusted, mature, respectful adult. Go figure.

la petite moi · 04-26-2005, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greeneyes

For all of you that say this child should be slapped/spanked/what have you, I disagree. I think she needs a lot of patience and firmness, and not the kind that comes from your hand.

dirtyrascal7 (my boyfriend and fellow TFPer) is an absolutely excellent example of a person who was brought up with no physical violence whatsoever. He was brought up to respect others and his parents were firm, but not physical. You know what he is today? A well-adjusted, mature, respectful adult. Go figure.

Not all children are the same, as this video shows. I do not advocate family violence, but I do think that light spankings can be set in place as a punishment when being firm simply DOES NOT work. It's great your boyfriend was a good child, but not all children are that way.

radioguy · 04-26-2005, 07:43 PM

spankings all depend on the parents belief. you can find many well adjusted, respectable, and respected people that were spanked growing up, just as you could find many well adjusted, respectable, and respected people that weren't spanked as a child. it's all in the parents beliefs and how they choose to bring their children up that makes all the difference in the world.

another thing, you could find many screwed up people that were spanked as a child and many screwed up people that weren't spanked as a child. it once again depends on how the parents raised them.

shakran · 04-26-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixate

What do you want the teachers to do? Spank/beat the child?
I'm sure that the child's useless parents would love that because then they could sue the fuck out of the school and get paid an assload of cash for being useless parents. Is that a better alternative? I think not....

If you hadn't noticed, they're already "suing the fuck" out of the cops. I'm not sure why you seem to think suing the cops is so much better than suing the school. And I'll tell ya what, they'll most likely win, and get paid "an assload of cash" anyway.

I want the school to use standard methods of discipline. I don't want little kids to be manhandled by the cops because they throw a fit. If the kid is too disruptive, then the kid needs to be removed from the classroom. Every district nowadays has an alternative learning center, or a "last chance" school, or whatever they call it. Throw her in there where she belongs if she's that much of a holy terror.

And by all means, charge the parents with anything you can.

StickODynomite · 04-26-2005, 08:02 PM

It seems it's a lose-lose situation. If the little girl hadn't been cuffed and she hurt herself, her mom might've sued for that.

Supple Cow · 04-26-2005, 08:12 PM

First, I think those people did exactly what they were supposed to do given their positions. Even though many of you think a good spanking from the assistant principal would have solved it, it's still illegal for her to do that. She's not allowed to touch the kid like that. End of story.

Second, while I see appropriately dispensed spankings as acceptable in certain situations, I don't think this is one of them. When I was about her age, I tried to beat up my big brother. I don't remember why. But I do remember being trapped on the couch under his giant ass for what seemed like forever (yes, he sat on me). It was probably only about 5 minutes. You can bet I calmed the heck down. Did I ever try to beat him up again? Nope.

This obviously isn't the first time that kid has had behavioral trouble. I suspect she has some kind of learning disability or other disorder that is making her very angry, but I can't really know. Maybe she was just a brat like everybody else seems to think. Either way, the people at the school (including the police) did exactly what they were supposed to do.

doodlebird · 04-26-2005, 08:39 PM

AAARGH!! the fact that there is a lawsuit for this is CRAZY. i hope to heavens it gets thrown out instantly. the child is freakin' brat.

IMO
here's the root of it...
"Any parent that would actually defend their child in this situation is a complete idiot, and shouldn't be allowed to have a child." - sixate

sadly, mandatory nuetering / spaying is only in place for animals from the pound. where coincidently, you can find much better behavior from the young ones.

but this is a terrible awful slope we're headed down. the bad side of letting everyone live their own life is that everyone is free to be an ass and raise their children to be asses as well.

BUT when you cross the line into destructive behavior (this girl did) you will be dealt with (and she was)

Huzzah to all authorities involved.

mokle · 04-26-2005, 09:47 PM

Parents like that should be deported. Sure, raise your kid to be a useless brat, because you suck as a parent, then sue someone for your problem.

guthmund · 04-27-2005, 12:45 AM

You can't have it both ways.

Decades of hamstringing the school system in handling troublesome students have led to what happened to that little girl.

The school faculty was afraid to do anything for fear of being sued. They took the only course open. It may be silly to call the cops (and they were cops St. Petersburg police to be exact), but it was the only recourse they had after the mother failed to show up. They were trying to cover their asses and it appears it didn't do any good as the mother is already talking about pressing charges.

It was handled the best it possibly could have been handled. And that's what makes it reprehensible. That the police being called to talk down and ultimately hand cuff a little girl because the school was too afraid and the mother unwilling to assume responsibility for this kid and discipline her for her actions.

In this case, every one is a loser, this girl's mother especially. She should hang her head in shame.

/waits patiently for the big public outcry about this followed by media blitz of "it could happen to your child" "news" stories.

04-26-2005, 04:15 PM	#11 (permalink)
Sage hoarding all the big girl panties since 2005 Location: North side	You know what is bullshit? The lawyer saying that the educators were "trying to provoke the child." The kid is five, she's being snotty. And as to parents being held responsible for their kids' actions, well, when the kids are old enough to know what they're doing, yeah, parents shouldn't be held responsible. However, if your five year old doesn't know how to behave, your parental skills should be called into questioning, because obviously they aren't effective. __________________ Sage knows our mythic history, King Arthur's and Sir Caradoc's She answers hard acrostics, has a pretty taste for paradox She quotes in elegiacs all the crimes of Heliogabalus In conics she can floor peculiarities parabolous -C'hi

04-26-2005, 05:00 PM	#14 (permalink)
keyshawn Psycho	Can someone please provide a direct link to the video ? Firefox isn't liking their html that much.... __________________ currently reading: currently playing : Last edited by keyshawn; 04-26-2005 at 05:00 PM.. Reason: can't forget please !

04-26-2005, 05:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
mokle Psycho Location: Alberta, Canada	A good smack would have calmed her down might fast. __________________ Mokle "Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

04-26-2005, 05:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	The outrageous thing is that it got to this point in the first place. Parents don't discipline their kid, the kid goes to school and acts like this, and society has placed so many restrictions on teachers that they can't touch the kid when he/she gets out of control or else the teacher could be fired and definitely sued. Were the cuffs needed? No. (And the cops were NOT overly forceful, either) But perhaps they gave the kid a taste of discipline that she obviously isn't getting at home. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

04-26-2005, 05:31 PM	#22 (permalink)
cellophanedeity Heliotrope Location: A warm room	I think that the teachers did an excellent job of handling the situation. There's not much that you can do to discipline a child if you're a teacher. It's obvious that this girl was aware of what police mean, and so she calmed down then. I don't think this child should be in a public school. She (and probably her parents) has definite emotional issues that we cannot hold a public educator responsible for dealing with. What should be done instead, if you do think that this was too harsh? __________________ who am I to refuse the universe? -Leonard Cohen, Beautiful Losers

04-26-2005, 03:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
TexanAvenger Born-Again New Guy Location: Unfound.	I really can't imagine the need for anybody to forcibly handcuff a 5 year old. Much less why they would feel that it took 3 grown men to do it... The kid was being a snotty punk, was acting (for the most part) without reason, but does that excuse the use of force on a kid like that? No. Most kids act like that at some point, but they don't get cuffed for it .

04-26-2005, 03:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	the kid was being a little shit. That said, she's a child. They weren't arresting her, so the handcuffs were to keep her from injuring people. She's FIVE. If three big cops and an educator were afraid of being hurt by a five year old, they need to find a new line of work. Did the kid need to be calmed down? No question. Did the kid need to be slammed on a table and cuffed? Hell no. You want to jail a five year old for throwing a temper tantrum? Are you serious? Kids throw tantrums. Throwing them in the slammer is NOT the way to deal with it.

04-26-2005, 03:36 PM	#5 (permalink)
Coppertop Getting Medieval on your ass Location: 13th century Europe	That teacher displayed serious restraint and patience. I would not have had that much restraint had that been my kid or were I the teacher - I guess that's why I don't have children and am not a teacher.

04-26-2005, 03:41 PM	#6 (permalink)
Nikki ~~~~~~~ Location: Charleston, SC	I think the handcuffing was not done bc it was needed but to teach the child a lesson. That being said, I see nothing wrong with how this was handled.

04-26-2005, 03:46 PM	#8 (permalink)
CMH Upright	This country is so pathetic. I mean, it's a five year old kid and they have to evacuate the classroom and call the cops. She should have been drug out of the classroom and spanked.

04-26-2005, 03:48 PM	#9 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	5 year old kids are not aware enough of their actions for an arrest to be justified. Likewise, parents cannot be held accountable for their children's actions. If the school wanted to expel the kid, fine, but even that is too extreme. The kid (and the parents) need counselling.

04-26-2005, 04:11 PM	#10 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	The kid was way out of line. The police showed remarkable restraint and deserve a Medal of Honor for their outstanding handling of the situation. I would have even been tolerant of their using mace which would have been way more than justified. The teacher should get an immediate raise and a Medal of Honor. What was she to do? She handled it perfectly. We have tied their hands folks. She had no choice but to call security. Like the poster above, a spanking in the hallway or better yet, in front of the other kids would have put an end to it right away. But then their maniac parents would have complained too. Children are coddled way too much. Fine or jail the parents too for wasting taxpayers money. Parents MUST be accountable for their actions. Kids are way out of control these days.

04-26-2005, 04:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
Da Munk Crazy	The teachers and administration weren't allowed to do anything and the kid knew it. Putting her in handcuffs hopefully showed her that if you act like a little brat, there are consequences. Maybe next time she'll listen when her teachers tell her to stop.

04-26-2005, 04:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	I don't think it was necessary for the cops to have shown up, the teachers should have been able to handle it. In my opinion, those were shitty teachers. When I went to grade school, if I acted that way I would have been spanked. At the very least yelled at. And I would have gotten double that when I got home. So did I ever act like that little kid? Hell no. Well, I guess it wasn't really the teachers fault. In this day and age they were probably wise to try not to touch the kid. But if/when I have kids, you can believe that they will be punished for being bad, not coddled.

04-26-2005, 05:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
radioguy Registered User Location: Texas	as a teacher, i can't do anything physical to the child, neither can the principal. i have no problem with the cops putting her in handcuffs to protect themselves and the child from hitting others. i know a 5 year old could not hurt a grown-up, but after being hit, the grown-ups could have reacted in a negative way and possibly hurt the child. kids know that teachers and principals can't do anything to them. it's up to the parents to teach the children respect and self-control. a teacher can only do so much. the teacher did a DAMN GOOD job at attempting to calm the child down. kudos to her and kudos to the police for having the guts to do this to the girl. i hope the officers and school district don't get sued over this, they don't deserve that. the parent deserves some type of punishment for not teaching/controlling their child.

04-26-2005, 05:17 PM	#20 (permalink)
shakran Tone.	people we are talking about a five year old, not a fifteen year old. Rare would be the occasion that you had just cause to cuff a five year old. I'm not excusing her behavior, it was atrocious. But a five year old throwing a tantrum is hardly an unusual event. Cops are not needed. Period.

04-26-2005, 06:04 PM	#23 (permalink)
StanT © Location: Colorado	I'd sentence the mom to a year of probation with mandatory parenting classes. That behavior is inexcusable. Personally, I would have spanked the kid. I think the teachers did an excellent job given their constraints.

04-26-2005, 06:44 PM	#27 (permalink)
liquidlight AHH! Custom Title!! Location: The twisted warpings of my brain.	I've got a 5-year-old, and having seen the video and read this I think Mooseman has it just right. My children get spankings when they get out of line, and personally if I had the power when my daughter starts school in the fall I would give her teacher the right to do the same. This entire episode stems from a complete lack of respect for anything, she knows the teachers can't do anything and I think it's dispicable that her mother's reaction is to get a lawyer! Personally if my children were ever to throw a tantrum like that, especially in school where the poor teachers aren't paid enough as it is, I would welcome the police putting them in handcuffs in the hopes that it would make the point that the behavior is completely inexcusable. Then I would have a hard time apologizing enough to those poor educators for my children having subjected them to such a disruptive, disrespectful, and unnecessary outburst. I think her and her mother need to grow the hell up before we make another situation where we tell everybody else that this type of behavior is acceptable and it's the cops that are at fault and not this 5-year-old. __________________ Halfway to hell and picking up speed.

04-26-2005, 06:50 PM	#28 (permalink)
greeneyes Insane Location: Charlotte, NC	I like StanT's idea of parenting classes because that is the real problem here. Of course the mother thinks the assistant principal was being too harsh, Dibenedetto actually told the girl no which is probably more than mom ever did. I think it's a shame that this girl has been shuffled off to another school. I understand that since there is an investigation that is probably the best course of action, but I think it might perpetuate the problem. I hope neither the teachers nor the officers are disciplined for this in the least. __________________ Put the blame on me So you don't feel a thing Go on and save yourself Take it out on me

04-26-2005, 07:09 PM	#29 (permalink)
slant eyes Psycho Location: cali	god. i love kids and thought i had the utmost patience for them, but this video proves me wrong. i would have loved to slapped the kid silly. that aside, i think the principal did an excellent job all around. cuffing her was necessary and they did, imho, everything great. sad to say, after watching the entirety of both clips, i was really glad she started crying. rest assured fellow tfp'ers, if my kid acts out of line this way, i will smack the crap out of them, and to do society a favor, each and every one of you is allowed to as well. __________________ no man or woman is worth your tears - and the one who is, won't make you cry question authority, don't ask why, just do it!

04-26-2005, 07:14 PM	#32 (permalink)
greeneyes Insane Location: Charlotte, NC	For all of you that say this child should be slapped/spanked/what have you, I disagree. I think she needs a lot of patience and firmness, and not the kind that comes from your hand. dirtyrascal7 (my boyfriend and fellow TFPer) is an absolutely excellent example of a person who was brought up with no physical violence whatsoever. He was brought up to respect others and his parents were firm, but not physical. You know what he is today? A well-adjusted, mature, respectful adult. Go figure. __________________ Put the blame on me So you don't feel a thing Go on and save yourself Take it out on me

04-26-2005, 07:43 PM	#34 (permalink)
radioguy Registered User Location: Texas	spankings all depend on the parents belief. you can find many well adjusted, respectable, and respected people that were spanked growing up, just as you could find many well adjusted, respectable, and respected people that weren't spanked as a child. it's all in the parents beliefs and how they choose to bring their children up that makes all the difference in the world. another thing, you could find many screwed up people that were spanked as a child and many screwed up people that weren't spanked as a child. it once again depends on how the parents raised them.

04-26-2005, 08:02 PM	#36 (permalink)
StickODynomite Insane Location: Arizona :\|	It seems it's a lose-lose situation. If the little girl hadn't been cuffed and she hurt herself, her mom might've sued for that. __________________ "The human mind is like a parachute, it works best when open."

04-26-2005, 08:12 PM	#37 (permalink)
Supple Cow Americow, the Beautiful Location: Washington, D.C.	First, I think those people did exactly what they were supposed to do given their positions. Even though many of you think a good spanking from the assistant principal would have solved it, it's still illegal for her to do that. She's not allowed to touch the kid like that. End of story. Second, while I see appropriately dispensed spankings as acceptable in certain situations, I don't think this is one of them. When I was about her age, I tried to beat up my big brother. I don't remember why. But I do remember being trapped on the couch under his giant ass for what seemed like forever (yes, he sat on me). It was probably only about 5 minutes. You can bet I calmed the heck down. Did I ever try to beat him up again? Nope. This obviously isn't the first time that kid has had behavioral trouble. I suspect she has some kind of learning disability or other disorder that is making her very angry, but I can't really know. Maybe she was just a brat like everybody else seems to think. Either way, the people at the school (including the police) did exactly what they were supposed to do. __________________ "I've missed more than 9000 shots in my career. I've lost almost 300 games. Twenty-six times I've been trusted to take the game winning shot and missed. I've failed over and over and over again in my life. And that is why I succeed." (Michael Jordan)

04-26-2005, 08:39 PM	#38 (permalink)
doodlebird pío pío Location: on a branch about to break	AAARGH!! the fact that there is a lawsuit for this is CRAZY. i hope to heavens it gets thrown out instantly. the child is freakin' brat. IMO here's the root of it... "Any parent that would actually defend their child in this situation is a complete idiot, and shouldn't be allowed to have a child." - sixate sadly, mandatory nuetering / spaying is only in place for animals from the pound. where coincidently, you can find much better behavior from the young ones. but this is a terrible awful slope we're headed down. the bad side of letting everyone live their own life is that everyone is free to be an ass and raise their children to be asses as well. BUT when you cross the line into destructive behavior (this girl did) you will be dealt with (and she was) Huzzah to all authorities involved. __________________ xoxo doodle

04-26-2005, 09:47 PM	#39 (permalink)
mokle Psycho Location: Alberta, Canada	Parents like that should be deported. Sure, raise your kid to be a useless brat, because you suck as a parent, then sue someone for your problem. __________________ Mokle "Your hands can't hit what your eyes can't see" -Ali

04-27-2005, 12:45 AM	#40 (permalink)
guthmund big damn hero	You can't have it both ways. Decades of hamstringing the school system in handling troublesome students have led to what happened to that little girl. The school faculty was afraid to do anything for fear of being sued. They took the only course open. It may be silly to call the cops (and they were cops St. Petersburg police to be exact), but it was the only recourse they had after the mother failed to show up. They were trying to cover their asses and it appears it didn't do any good as the mother is already talking about pressing charges. It was handled the best it possibly could have been handled. And that's what makes it reprehensible. That the police being called to talk down and ultimately hand cuff a little girl because the school was too afraid and the mother unwilling to assume responsibility for this kid and discipline her for her actions. In this case, every one is a loser, this girl's mother especially. She should hang her head in shame. /waits patiently for the big public outcry about this followed by media blitz of "it could happen to your child" "news" stories. __________________ No signature. None. Seriously. Last edited by guthmund; 04-27-2005 at 12:47 AM..