Sleepyjack

i hope it is ok to put petitions here, i am not trying to sell ipods or advertise any consumer products

EDITED by Cynthetiq: removed URL

Hi Everyone,

This is something that could so easily happen to any one of us so unwittingly so please join the petition,

Thanks

Please take a moment to read and sign the following petition to help save Australian citizen Schapelle Corby from death by firing squad in Indonesia.

Schapelle Corby has been detained in a Balinese prison and now awaits sentencing from a panel of judges on whether she will be committed to the death penalty, by a firing squad, for allegedly attempting to import four kilograms of cannabis into Indonesia. It is disgusting and barbaric in this day and age that a 'death penalty by firing squad' law exists, and that an Australian citizen should be subject to it. This law is out-dated and inhumane, and considering that convicted terrorist Abu Bakar Bashir has only been sentenced to two years and six months jail (with the prospect of appeal) for his proven 'conspiracy' participation in the Bali bombings that killed 183 people, in the same country, it is inconsistent and absurd that another person should face the death penalty for allegedly smuggling cannabis into the country.


Furthermore, the Australian Government and airlines should be taking more responsibility for this incident in any case, since it is the fault of the Australian airlines/airport that the drugs even left Australia in the first place - which also leaves us to ponder on the security and possible internal corruption of staff working at Australian airports, in light of drug smuggling and terrorism. We the undersigned demand that the Australian Government, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, act responsibily to ensure that, innocent or guilty, Schapelle Corby is returned to Australia and that she does NOT face the 'death penalty by firing Squad' in Indonesia.

Thankyou for your assistance in attempting to save Schapelle Corby.

spindles

I could not, in all good faith sign such a thing. Has she actually been found guilty? If she has, then there is the penalty to pay. Whether the law is a stupid one or not is not under question from me.

But the laws of many countries are harsh on drug smugglers. The "somebody else put it in my bag" defence might also be useful if she had any evidence apart from hearsay from a guy in gaol.

I think it would be patently stupid to take high grade marijuana into Bali, given the street value in Australia and the obviously serious penalty for being caught, but we can't rule out the possibility that she is in fact not very bright.

Also, we have a habit of always thinking the best of the people from their own country - it is not always so.

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maleficent

Not that I honestly think a petition would do any good at all, I am also of the I can't sign it.

To use the argument that the Australian government is responsible is just ridiculous. How many times do people bitch that they don't want the govermnent protecting them from themselves. This woman made a choice. She carried in a heck of a lot of cannibis into a country where the punishment is known. Did she think those laws did not apply to her? That going thru customs her bag wouldn't be checked?

It's a shame that she was so stupid.

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Latch

I have trouble believing this "unknowingly carried drugs" story, as well. I'm probably echoing a lot of what spindles is saying, but, while it would be stupid to smuggle some in.. it's just too convenient that this rapist came foward and said "oh yeah, I heard some guys talking while I was in gaol....".

For those who haven't heard of this (probably everyone outside of Aus , here's. a google news link to her name. Stories galore for you to read


A quick rundown is: she got caught with 4.1kgs of marijuana in her body (boogie) board bag entering Bali, Indonesia (a popular holiday location). For a while (many months) no one said anything about it while she sat in jail. Recently a rapist (or alleged rapist?) came forward saying he heard some people joking about it while he was in jail (gaol). He claims if he named the people who made the jokes, they'd kill both Corby and him.

maleficent

In the early 90s, there was an American teenager, Michael Fay, dumbass that he was, got caught vandalizing cars (Spraypainting I beleive) He got caught, and his punishment was six lashes with a cane (supposedly anything over 4 can send aperson into shock or worse)

There was such a furor over this - -that how could such a "non-violent" crime elicit such a serious punishment. Our government stepped in and the punishment I believe was reduced to 4 lashes. The kid should have gotten more.

Don't do the crime, if you can't do the time... expecting your government to bail you out when you screw up, is just wrong.

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JustJess

I have no problem with her getting punished - jailtime, caning, fine. But to *kill* someone over a few kilos of pot??? I know it's not my country, not my culture, but I have a hard time believing that's okay no matter what. I don't have a big problem with capital punishment, but I do when it's used for shite like this, especially if they don't sentence actual murderers (like terrorists) to death.

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My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

maleficent

Then you will remember that the next time you go to Bali...

It's not our country - -not our laws... You obey the laws of the country you are in, or accept the punishment

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yellowchef

I have to agree with mal here. Just like when those visiting our country are subject to our laws and punnishments we are subject to those of other countries. As Americans we honestly do ask for a lot more than we give. How often have we been in a rush or supported deportation and imprisonment of a foreigner over a "petty crime"? Unfortunately she commited a crime and I highly doubt she unknowingly carried in or mailed in a few kilos of pot considering the fact that 4 kilos of pot is roughly 9 pounds. 9 pounds isnt a LOT but for a postal package its not small either.

"Furthermore, the Australian Government and airlines should be taking more responsibility for this incident in any case, since it is the fault of the Australian airlines/airport that the drugs even left Australia in the first place - which also leaves us to ponder on the security and possible internal corruption of staff working at Australian airports, in light of drug smuggling and terrorism. We the undersigned demand that the Australian Government, and Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, act responsibily to ensure that, innocent or guilty, Schapelle Corby is returned to Australia and that she does NOT face the 'death penalty by firing Squad' in Indonesia. " I have a problem with this...

Who cares how they got out of the country to begin with, she did what she wanted to do.. sneak the drugs past Aussie security and get them to Indonesia. Just like in the US bombs get past the TSA security all the time. How did the guy with the bomb in his shoe get past "all the security we have"? How did 2 young adults board a plane with nail clippers? How have I seen people board planes with innocent pocket knives that are now contraband? Shit happens and thats that. You left the country with hopes of bringing illegal narcotics into another and shes asking for mercy? I honestly feel no pity on her as she commited crimes in 2 countries and while death by firing squad is extreme, if thats what the government sees fit, thats what they see fit. It is their country and she did enter it on her own free will.

Sleepyjack

By the by, i am not suggesting she should get a free ticket, if found guilty, but this crime is not worthy of the death penelty (nor any crime is really but that's my opinion on another topic) - even if it's not our country or laws, i still hope there'd be some kind of humanity involved, which maybe Australia could help intervene with to make the penelty not so drastic or help change all together so nothing like this happens again, to anyone.

Also she has not been found guilty, she is still innocent.

maleficent

I'm all for humanity.. however... if this was a balinese citizen about to be convicted of the same crime, would the penalty be the same? Probably yes. Would it get the media attention that this case has gotten? Probably not, because it doesn't involve an Australian citizen, and more than likely many folks would not give it a second thought.

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little_tippler

I think it's still worth signing the petition, just to stop this gruesome and clearly undeserved (i mean it's just cannabis) death penalty.

edit: I really hope all you guys saying you won't sign the petition actually read the articles in the link provided...seriously, it doesn't sound like she did it.

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Mbwuto

Surely someone here has seen Midnight Express. A man named Billy Hayes went through this sort if thing back in the 70s.

In any case I'd be willing to sign, not because I feel sorry for her, but because I don't think she deserves to die. I'm sure she could be retrieved if the Aussie government made a big enough stink. I can't decide whether Indonesia will release her for good P.R. or shoot her to make an example.

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- people who have fallen into solitary, half-mad grooves of life and given up trying to be normal or decent.

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Zephyr66

Signed it, I completely disagree with you guys, laws like this shouldn't even exist. I mean, seriously, a firing squad! thats ludicrous!

spindles

I have read quite a bit about it. It is *possible* she was in the wrong place at the wrong time - you would hope that the court system in any country is good enough to take that into account. However, I don't think anybody should take anything seen/read in the media as 100% truth.

Also, I think politically it would be seen by the public as a good thing (if she is convicted) for her to be brought home. Our political ties with Indonesia are about as strong as they have ever been. I doubt she will be executed, whether I sign the petition or not. Little Johnny is too good a politician to pass up this opportunity to look good.

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whocarz

As you may know from reading my posts in other threads, I am all for capital punishment. I am in favor of firing squads for murderers, rapists, and other sorts of violent criminals. This, however, is outrageous. I find it disturbing that there are people who say "Well, that's the law, tought shit." This sort of attitude is on display in several current threads, and I find it bizarre. The law is not always right or just, laws are imperfect, because they are made by humans. I don't agree with any punishment regarding marijuania (no, I do not use it), and killing someone for having pot is fucking insane. I don't care if some country decides to make some fucked up law, I don't have to agree with it, or be so indifferent. I hope if this woman is rescued by the Australian SAS if they decide to carry through with the execution.

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Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius

Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

little_tippler

Really? What planet do you live on?

Agreed.

Again, I have my doubts about this...

__________________
Whether we write or speak or do but look
We are ever unapparent. What we are
Cannot be transfused into word or book.
Our soul from us is infinitely far.
However much we give our thoughts the will
To be our soul and gesture it abroad,
Our hearts are incommunicable still.
In what we show ourselves we are ignored.
The abyss from soul to soul cannot be bridged
By any skill of thought or trick of seeming.
Unto our very selves we are abridged
When we would utter to our thought our being.
We are our dreams of ourselves, souls by gleams,
And each to each other dreams of others' dreams.

Fernando Pessoa, 1918

Carno

Kill her.

It's her own damn fault.

EDIT: well, after reading many of the articles, it seems she may not be guilty. If she is guilty though, then she should be punished according to the laws. Their country, their laws.

The_wall

I can't believe some people don't care that someone is going to be executed over pot. Yet some of the people that don't care I'm sure supported the war in Iraq, because sadam was an evil guy. Hey it was sadams country, his rules.

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Rlyss

Like Carn points out, the issue isn't really whether Indonesia's drug laws are too strict, but whether she is guilty or not. If she is, in fact, guilty, then the court should punish her how it sees fit. Everybody knows that carrying drugs around the world is illegal, and there is no living soul in Australia that isn't aware of Indonesia's tough drug laws. Every person and his dog in Australia has been to Bali and we all know the laws. Genocide and evil tyrannical dictator-ness deserve outside intervention, but a country's drug laws are its own business.

I think it's more important to find out whether she is guilty or not. Going simply but what I've heard in the news I don't think she is guilty, I think she was framed. There's a host of evidence supporting her guilt and her innocence, some of the stuff indicating she was framed is pretty compelling. I just don't think it adds up, it doesn't look like she was deliberately smuggling the pot into the country. I feel incredibly sorry for her and wish there was more Australia could do to find prove her innocence. I don't want Australia to 'get her out of it', I want my government to find more evidence supporting her claim that she was framed. I don't see that as Australia butting into Bali's justice system, I see it protecting its own citizens until found guilty.

Cynthetiq

First we don't support ANY online petitions at all, from Save the Planet to Save the Whales. I've edited the URL out of the discussion.

Second, when you fill out your Visa application on the plane, it says in BIG BOLD RED LETTERS, DEATH TO DRUG TRAFFICKERS.

When living in Singapore, I travelled frequently to Indonesia and Malaysia. All three of them had that listed on their Visas.

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Ace_O_Spades

We live in a global society where mala prohibita laws vary from no crime to death for the crime

In the Netherlands prostitution is legal, in Iran... death

While we can do nothing about these laws, you need to operate within their boundaries no matter who you are.

If she's guilty, that really sucks that she chose to traffic drugs into a place where they kill you for it.

Anyone see the movie Brokedown Palace?

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Feh.

spindles

Well, I heard the Australian justice minister interviewed on the radio this morning. He is having talks with the attorney general of Indonesia on two things:
1. if she is found guilty that she is not given a death sentence
2. looking at putting an agreement in place to repatriate each others prisoners (he said there were 11 Aussies in Indonesian gaols, and 30 Indonesians in gaol here, so this one was not a corby only thing, and is actually negotiations that were already underway.)

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radioguy

i don't see how it's the airlines fault because they didn't catch the canabis before it left australia. it's all her fault and i believe that whatever she gets, she deserves.

it doesn't matter if we believe that their laws are outdated to us. to them, it's acceptable, and she did do the crime there, so their laws rule over everybody elses. that's why i'm never leaving the good ole USA.

Carno

Well then you are going to be missing out on an awful lot.

pattycakes

mmmmm firingsquad.... cost efective....mmmmmmm

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analog

People only complain about the stupidity of laws when it bothers them in particular. Until such time, it matters not. If the law there is to be shot to death for bringing 4 kilos of pot into their country, then you eat a lead salad for your last meal- you don't do it, get caught, and then whine and bitch about how "outdated" or "barbaric" it is. It's their law. You respect it, or you pay the price.

And no, it's NOT the fault of the fucking autralian government for "not catching it before it left", it's the fault of the stupid woman who brought it.

If she's innocent, then she's innocent- and there's no reason to get our shorts in a twist. If she's guilty- then she pays whatever price they put on her head.

I file this under "tough shit".

EDIT: I hope she doesn't have any kids, so her genetics stop with her.

splck

Your laws are seen as draconian compared to many other countries, so maybe it's time for you to leave?


While I think the punishment for the crime is way over the top, i don't think it's another countries buisiness to tell them what to do.

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nice line eh?

Phage

1) You have no right to tell another country what their laws should be, so unless you are from Indonesia you have no justification to mess with it.

2) An Australian citizen is subject to the laws of the country they are in; she was in Indonesia and to show outrage that she is subject to a penalty you think barbaric is the height of arrogance.

3) The purpose of this petition would be what again? Indonesia does not give a flying fuck about it no matter how many sign it, so the only reason for it to exist is so someone (namely you) can mentally masturbate about how many people are 'outraged'. If you really cared you would be doing something worthwhile, but apparently all this person's life is worth to you is 1,842 keystrokes. I applaud your effort.

4) Personally I think that all drugs should be legalized, and that if we wish to change the laws of another country then a good way to do it is to take over by force. What I don't approve of is people lying about their motives and treating me like an intellectual dildo.

radioguy

i realize i'm missing out on a heck of a world out there but there is too much here in the USA to be seen in a lifetime. i'll look down on all parts of the world when i'm in heaven!


splck: draconian?? don't use words that i don't know the meaning of how am i supposed to respond to that?

gal

Dunno what the Australian government has done, but they should definitely try to help her out. Countries should aid their citizens abroad. And death penalty is barbaric, no matter what the offense is.

Seeker

Seeing how the airlines operate, it is possible to load someone elses bags with stuff. I don't think baggage handlers are watched that closely here. If her bags were not locked (as I usually do when travelling) then she may well have been a victim. I think if she is a victim, the perpetrators could of at least split the packages so as to be only 2kg each therefore not impose the possibility of 'death' on the victim.

If she did do it - then silly her...

I personally think there is enough 'reasonable doubt' at the Australian end, but whether they consider that sort of thing in Bali?? It's all such a shame but that's how it is...

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Phage

I don't think that the death penalty is always excessive, by the following line of reasoning. Opinions can differ about the maximum penalty for a crime, but a good measure of what the absolute minimum for a crime should be can be found by looking at the infraction itself, e.g. "make the punishment fit the crime". For example suppose shoplifting is punishable by a fine; obviously the fine should never be less than the value of the item shoplifted or it would always be a good idea to steal it even with a 100% chance of being caught. Similarly a fine equal to the value of the item is not enough because there is a chance of getting away with it for free.

In the case of a murder someone has inflicted death and if the punishment must be less than death then it will always be an advantageous trade. Realistically the penalty for a murder should be worse than death, perhaps torture and then execution.

Laws are intended to prevent crimes and so the punishment must be serious enough to make the law effective. A criminal looks at the value they get from committing a crime and compares it with the penalty for the crime less their chance at getting away with it, and judging it worth the risk commits the crime. In this case she apparently judged the profit from the smuggling worth the risk, and now that she is caught she must pay the price.

Admittedly there is no way to assure that innocent people are not convicted of crimes, but this should not affect the severity of punishments. If someone is innocent then the punishment is always excessive; adjusting punishments to be fair to those who are not guilty of the crime would eliminate them completely. Instead effort should be put into improving the system to avoid convicting innocents.

Sweetpea

to all the ppl that say this isn't their concern and punishment is important to uphold . . .

Just a thought .. . but:
IF this was your sister, daughter, neice, wife . . . you'd feel alot different.
It's easy to remove yourself from a situation when it doesn't affect you . . . but if you put yourself in the shoes of someone this woman is important too and then think about it .............

Sweetpea

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Phage

So basically you are saying that if our judgment was flawed by emotion then we would feel differently, so we should make flawed conclusions in sympathy for those so afflicted? I don't think she is your sister, daughter, niece, or wife so what is your excuse for such a defective outlook?

Gilda

Of course it's important to respect the laws of whatever country you are in, and not ask for special treatment based on your country of origin. Yes, you should be willing to accept reasonable consequences for your actions, and you should certainly be prepared to accept the known consequences of your actions. I also recognize that the United States government doesn't have a moral leg to stand on when it comes to the death penalty in other countries.

I oppose the death penaly in general and in this case, even if the woman is guilty, I think it's unnecessarily harsh punishment relative to the crime, and I think it's entirely fair to object on those grounds.

However, to object on the basis of her citizinship or on the basis of the method of execution seems off to me. Why should it matter what the method of execution is; she'll be dead in the end. Firing squad is no more barbaric than the electric chair or gas chamber. I'd venture it's more humane than the gas chamber, as death comes more quickly and with less suffering.

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jorgelito

To those that oppose the death penalty for her, would you be this passionate for all the Indonesians that get executed for trafficking "pot"? Would you still give a shit if it was a Pakistani? Afhgani? Nigerian? Would you sign a petition to stop the death penalty for the countless blacks in our own country (some whose only crime is well, being black.

For Australia to interfere in another soveriegn nation's legal system is a serious violation of that country's autonomy and would set bad precedent. And to send the Aussie SAS to bust her out? That's just dumb. Not even the Aussie's are dumb enough to do something like that (not that Indonesia's much of a military threat anyway). No, leave it alone, this story is blown way out of proportion. I haven't even seen this story on any of the real news wires.

Seeker

It's real here in Australia jorgelito...

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hulk

I think the worst shame is that she's probably not going to get a fair trial. Here, with all the evidence that's been given in her favour and the reasonable doubt that any one baggage handler could have put it in there, she'd probably be walking already.

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Sweetpea

hehheehe, no one has ever called my perspectives 'defective' . . .

The point i was making was not about emotion at all. . . rather . . . it is easy to deem someone else's life worthless if you don't personally feel the Consequences. I believe that when upholding principles . . . one should take into account how they would think if the death of this woman was Actually important to them instead of some nameless, faceless individual . . .

btw, thanks for the good laugh you gave me and my friends . . . 'defective' . . . hehehehehehe

Sweetpea

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Gilda

Absolutely I would. I don't believe anyone should ever be executed for anything. However, if there is going to be capital punishment, it should be reserved for only the worst, most heinous crimes: child molestation, murder, and forcicble rape. Trafficking pot isn't even in the top 1000 when it comes to crimes that deserve serious punishment (personally I don't even think it should be illegal, but that's another discussion).

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