One Thousand Percent? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Magpie0001 · 03-11-2005, 07:07 AM

Correct me if Im wrong but isnt the maximum percentage 100? How on earth did these people come up with 1000%?? Can this be right?

Link To Source

Definition:

per·cent also per cent adv.

Out of each hundred; per hundred.

n.
pl. percent, also per cent One part in a hundred: The report states that 42 percent of the alumni contributed to the endowment. Also called per centum.
pl. percents A percentage or portion: She has invested a large percent of her salary.
percents Chiefly British. Public securities yielding interest at a specified percentage.

metalgeek · 03-11-2005, 07:12 AM

well, you can use percents above 100, think of it as pennies, 1 percent equals one penny. (I received a 137% increase on my investments this year.. ecstacy prices have rise 300% (3x) since the police cracked down on the industry..)
However, the way they seem to be using it, as in the percentage chance that someone will spray graffiti again on a spot depending on how long it takes to clean off, should not go above 100%, unlessthere trying to saythat if you take a year to clean it off, it will be resprayed 10x.

Redlemon · 03-11-2005, 07:13 AM

You can have percentages greater than 100%; for instance, if you had 2 and went to 5, that's a 150% increase.

In this case, however, the author was a dumbass. When setting up the graph, they entered (for example) 35 instead of 0.35. When they applied the 'Percentage' formatting, it became 3500% instead of 35%.

I also question the data itself. If you haven't removed the graffiti within one year, there is a 100% chance that more graffiti will be added? I find that hard to believe.

ratbastid · 03-11-2005, 10:05 AM

"Not removing graffiti for a full year correlates to a 10-times increase in the likelihood of recurrance. Removing graffiti within 24 hours correlates to a recurrance 1/10th as often."

You know, to read charts like that, you really have to give 110%.

Dingo2879 · 03-11-2005, 10:10 AM

Maybe the extra 900% is to convey just how fucking bad shit's going to go down if they don't respond in time.

BigBen · 03-11-2005, 10:24 AM

My undergrad degree was in Economics, with a minor in stats.

I can save you thousands of dollars in tuition and countless hours of studying. Pay close attention:

Graphs, Numbers and Statistics are bullshit. I say that with a 99% confidence interval.

When someone feels strongly about something, they can look around in their environment, count the number of times something fits into their belief, and then create an equation (or worse, a fucking graph) to tell someone that they are right.

Only hard science benefits from statistics. If you are doing physics, engineering, biology, chemistry and the like, then the standard Bell curve is necessary and appropriate. In social sciences, when dealing with people's actions and the complexities therein, all statistics do is cover the person's motives...

I will tell you something, and you tell me if I am wrong. The graph in question you have shown was presented in a context where:
a) the presenter does not like graffiti
b) they are proposing that funds be increased to clean up that graffiti

Therefore, showing an "exponential growth" curve like that shows a tremendous amount of payoff if we could cover up graffiti in 24 hours.

Notice the x-axis as well. That time representation is not linear. You are being lied to with numbers, plain and simple. if the number looked (24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours) and increments of 24 hours equidistant from the origin, that 'curve' would look drastically different.

Post Script: Yes, it does look like a big fuck-up using the Microsoft Graph grenerator function in the MS Office package. Fucking amateurs.

Sorry, but people lying makes me angry.

Redlemon · 03-11-2005, 10:32 AM

BigBen931, are you a fan of "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff? Great book, I recommend it highly. This excerpt and graph example covers the same sort of thing you were talking about.

MooseMan3000 · 03-11-2005, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Graphs, Numbers and Statistics are bullshit. I say that with a 99% confidence interval.

Bahaha... that had me laughing pretty hard. I second that notion. (/stats nerd)

Suave · 03-11-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

My undergrad degree was in Economics, with a minor in stats.

I can save you thousands of dollars in tuition and countless hours of studying. Pay close attention:

Graphs, Numbers and Statistics are bullshit. I say that with a 99% confidence interval.

When someone feels strongly about something, they can look around in their environment, count the number of times something fits into their belief, and then create an equation (or worse, a fucking graph) to tell someone that they are right.

Only hard science benefits from statistics. If you are doing physics, engineering, biology, chemistry and the like, then the standard Bell curve is necessary and appropriate. In social sciences, when dealing with people's actions and the complexities therein, all statistics do is cover the person's motives...

I will tell you something, and you tell me if I am wrong. The graph in question you have shown was presented in a context where:
a) the presenter does not like graffiti
b) they are proposing that funds be increased to clean up that graffiti

Therefore, showing an "exponential growth" curve like that shows a tremendous amount of payoff if we could cover up graffiti in 24 hours.

Notice the x-axis as well. That time representation is not linear. You are being lied to with numbers, plain and simple. if the number looked (24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours) and increments of 24 hours equidistant from the origin, that 'curve' would look drastically different.

Post Script: Yes, it does look like a big fuck-up using the Microsoft Graph grenerator function in the MS Office package. Fucking amateurs.

Sorry, but people lying makes me angry.

Cynicism will get you nowhere. Not everyone uses statsitical data to lie. And what about peer-reviewed research?

BigBen · 03-11-2005, 12:24 PM

And BTW, my grad degree is an MBA... and I can save you thousands of dollars in tuition and countless hours of studying. Pay close attention:

Managers and business jargon are bullshit. I say that with a 100% confidence interval.

If anyone says any of the following, kick them the fuck out of your office: ( just say, "get out, you fucking fool, BigBen said you'd say something stupid like that")

1. SYNERGY. Easily one of the most overused and least understood words in a business setting

2. RIGHT-SIZING. At least have the integrity to call it what it is, a round of lay-offs

3. HARVARD. That business school has turned itself into Business Mecca with nobody's permission. the theories that are spouted from there have no more (or less) validity than other academic institutions. Publish or Perish, the saying goes. You don't have to have anything valuable to say, as long as someone wants to publish it. Donald Trump says the word HARVARD 5 times an episode. Asshole.

4. OUTSOURCING. Oh, and while I'm giving my company away, why don't you go over to my house and fuck my wife while you're at it?

5. MARKET TIMING. It's either a good idea or it isn't. Why should I wait to buy something I need now? Either I need it or it don't.

6. LEVERAGE. Let's see your degree in Finance. Come on, cough it up. Oh, you don't have one? THEN YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT WORD.

Jesus, I hate people that pretend they know what they are talking about. AARRRGH.

Can you tell I am having a bad day at work?

Sorry everyone. I just sat through a 3 hour meeting where the word LEVERAGE was used out of context, and then the VERY NEXT SLIDE looked like the 1000% graffiti massacre up above. I have to vent.

BigBen · 03-11-2005, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suave

Cynicism will get you nowhere. Not everyone uses statsitical data to lie. And what about peer-reviewed research?

Cynicism has gotten me this far. I like it. I think I'll keep it, thanks for the advice though.

No Suave, I did not say that EVERYONE uses stats to lie. Read carefully. I try to choose my words and sentences and thoughts carefully. I used a 99% confidence interval. That means there could be outlyers.

I do have great respect for HARD SCIENCE and their use of statistics. I think peer-reviewed research has its place in this regard.

Peer-reviewed research in a social science setting is different. That is bullshit, 99% of the time.

Feel free to set up a randomized controlled trial to dispute my theory. I look forward to reading your findings.

Hey, relax. I love you just the way you are.

Redlemon · 03-11-2005, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Sorry everyone. I just sat through a 3 hour meeting where the word LEVERAGE was used out of context, and then the VERY NEXT SLIDE looked like the 1000% graffiti massacre up above. I have to vent.

Business Buzzword Bingo!

Janey · 03-11-2005, 12:46 PM

[QUOTE=Redlemon]You can have percentages greater than 100%; for instance, if you had 2 and went to 5, that's a 150% increase.

QUOTE]

I think that there is semantics invovled. It would be more accurate to state that there was a 1 and a half times increase instead of a 150% increase. It's just dumbass laziness or buzz word talk.

rat · 03-12-2005, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janey

Quote:

Originally Posted by Redlemon

You can have percentages greater than 100%; for instance, if you had 2 and went to 5, that's a 150% increase.

I think that there is semantics invovled. It would be more accurate to state that there was a 1 and a half times increase instead of a 150% increase. It's just dumbass laziness or buzz word talk.

or a sensical usage of proper terms.... 2 to 4 is a 100% increase due to the fact that magnitude has doubled itself. 2 to 5 is a 1.5x change of magnitude. generally speaking in mathematics, .01 is considered 1% therefore, a mangitude incrase of 1.5x would be the equivalent of a 150% increase.

Suave · 03-12-2005, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

Cynicism has gotten me this far. I like it. I think I'll keep it, thanks for the advice though.

No Suave, I did not say that EVERYONE uses stats to lie. Read carefully. I try to choose my words and sentences and thoughts carefully. I used a 99% confidence interval. That means there could be outlyers.

I do have great respect for HARD SCIENCE and their use of statistics. I think peer-reviewed research has its place in this regard.

Peer-reviewed research in a social science setting is different. That is bullshit, 99% of the time.

Feel free to set up a randomized controlled trial to dispute my theory. I look forward to reading your findings.

Hey, relax. I love you just the way you are.

I don't have to dispute it, you have to provide evidence to support it. I imagine it would be quite the feat to set up data that would show that social research is bullshit with a 99% confidence interval. :P

BigBen · 03-12-2005, 07:18 PM

I have the evidence to support my claims. But you know what? THE EVIDENCE IS BULLSHIT.

Aw, Man, that was tooooo easy.

Suave, you set them up, I'll knock them down. (Rimshot)

betula · 03-13-2005, 10:35 AM

Nice BigBen, I agree with you about that graph. It is very easy to lie with statistics, or at the very least, hide findings that don't follow the path you are pushing. I'm a geography buff, and the very same thing is true with maps as it is with graphs. Whenever you generalize something very complex into a 2-D figure, you will lose and distort information. It is up to the reader to try to discern if the generalization is bullshit or not.

Suave · 03-13-2005, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBen931

I have the evidence to support my claims. But you know what? THE EVIDENCE IS BULLSHIT.

Aw, Man, that was tooooo easy.

Suave, you set them up, I'll knock them down. (Rimshot)

Oh so that's how it's gonna be, eh?

I have the evidence to refute your claims. But you know what? YOU WILL BELIEVE TO BE BULLSHIT.

Even easier than yours.

Sensei · 03-14-2005, 12:05 AM

Remember kids, if you don't give 110% then you're not a team player.

03-11-2005, 07:07 AM	#1 (permalink)
Magpie0001 Nobody Loves Me Location: Irish In Madrid	One Thousand Percent? Correct me if Im wrong but isnt the maximum percentage 100? How on earth did these people come up with 1000%?? Can this be right? Link To Source Definition: per·cent also per cent adv. Out of each hundred; per hundred. n. pl. percent, also per cent One part in a hundred: The report states that 42 percent of the alumni contributed to the endowment. Also called per centum. pl. percents A percentage or portion: She has invested a large percent of her salary. percents Chiefly British. Public securities yielding interest at a specified percentage. __________________ Music is my first love & It will be my last.

03-11-2005, 07:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
metalgeek Insane Location: Calgary	well, you can use percents above 100, think of it as pennies, 1 percent equals one penny. (I received a 137% increase on my investments this year.. ecstacy prices have rise 300% (3x) since the police cracked down on the industry..) However, the way they seem to be using it, as in the percentage chance that someone will spray graffiti again on a spot depending on how long it takes to clean off, should not go above 100%, unlessthere trying to saythat if you take a year to clean it off, it will be resprayed 10x. __________________ The truth is, wherever you choose to be, it's the wrong place. Chuck Palahniuk , Diary

03-11-2005, 07:13 AM	#3 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	You can have percentages greater than 100%; for instance, if you had 2 and went to 5, that's a 150% increase. In this case, however, the author was a dumbass. When setting up the graph, they entered (for example) 35 instead of 0.35. When they applied the 'Percentage' formatting, it became 3500% instead of 35%. I also question the data itself. If you haven't removed the graffiti within one year, there is a 100% chance that more graffiti will be added? I find that hard to believe. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

03-11-2005, 10:24 AM	#6 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	My undergrad degree was in Economics, with a minor in stats. I can save you thousands of dollars in tuition and countless hours of studying. Pay close attention: Graphs, Numbers and Statistics are bullshit. I say that with a 99% confidence interval. When someone feels strongly about something, they can look around in their environment, count the number of times something fits into their belief, and then create an equation (or worse, a fucking graph) to tell someone that they are right. Only hard science benefits from statistics. If you are doing physics, engineering, biology, chemistry and the like, then the standard Bell curve is necessary and appropriate. In social sciences, when dealing with people's actions and the complexities therein, all statistics do is cover the person's motives... I will tell you something, and you tell me if I am wrong. The graph in question you have shown was presented in a context where: a) the presenter does not like graffiti b) they are proposing that funds be increased to clean up that graffiti Therefore, showing an "exponential growth" curve like that shows a tremendous amount of payoff if we could cover up graffiti in 24 hours. Notice the x-axis as well. That time representation is not linear. You are being lied to with numbers, plain and simple. if the number looked (24 hours, 48 hours, 72 hours) and increments of 24 hours equidistant from the origin, that 'curve' would look drastically different. Post Script: Yes, it does look like a big fuck-up using the Microsoft Graph grenerator function in the MS Office package. Fucking amateurs. Sorry, but people lying makes me angry. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-11-2005, 10:32 AM	#7 (permalink)
Redlemon Devoted Donor Location: New England	BigBen931, are you a fan of "How to Lie with Statistics" by Darrell Huff? Great book, I recommend it highly. This excerpt and graph example covers the same sort of thing you were talking about. __________________ I can't read your signature. Sorry.

03-11-2005, 10:05 AM	#4 (permalink)
ratbastid Darth Papa Location: Yonder	"Not removing graffiti for a full year correlates to a 10-times increase in the likelihood of recurrance. Removing graffiti within 24 hours correlates to a recurrance 1/10th as often." You know, to read charts like that, you really have to give 110%.

03-11-2005, 10:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
Dingo2879 Crazy Location: Lisle, IL	Maybe the extra 900% is to convey just how fucking bad shit's going to go down if they don't respond in time.

03-11-2005, 12:24 PM	#10 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	And BTW, my grad degree is an MBA... and I can save you thousands of dollars in tuition and countless hours of studying. Pay close attention: Managers and business jargon are bullshit. I say that with a 100% confidence interval. If anyone says any of the following, kick them the fuck out of your office: ( just say, "get out, you fucking fool, BigBen said you'd say something stupid like that") 1. SYNERGY. Easily one of the most overused and least understood words in a business setting 2. RIGHT-SIZING. At least have the integrity to call it what it is, a round of lay-offs 3. HARVARD. That business school has turned itself into Business Mecca with nobody's permission. the theories that are spouted from there have no more (or less) validity than other academic institutions. Publish or Perish, the saying goes. You don't have to have anything valuable to say, as long as someone wants to publish it. Donald Trump says the word HARVARD 5 times an episode. Asshole. 4. OUTSOURCING. Oh, and while I'm giving my company away, why don't you go over to my house and fuck my wife while you're at it? 5. MARKET TIMING. It's either a good idea or it isn't. Why should I wait to buy something I need now? Either I need it or it don't. 6. LEVERAGE. Let's see your degree in Finance. Come on, cough it up. Oh, you don't have one? THEN YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE THAT WORD. Jesus, I hate people that pretend they know what they are talking about. AARRRGH. Can you tell I am having a bad day at work? Sorry everyone. I just sat through a 3 hour meeting where the word LEVERAGE was used out of context, and then the VERY NEXT SLIDE looked like the 1000% graffiti massacre up above. I have to vent. __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-11-2005, 12:46 PM	#13 (permalink)
Janey Junkie Location: Toronto	[QUOTE=Redlemon]You can have percentages greater than 100%; for instance, if you had 2 and went to 5, that's a 150% increase. QUOTE] I think that there is semantics invovled. It would be more accurate to state that there was a 1 and a half times increase instead of a 150% increase. It's just dumbass laziness or buzz word talk.

03-12-2005, 07:18 PM	#16 (permalink)
BigBen Comedian Location: Use the search button	I have the evidence to support my claims. But you know what? THE EVIDENCE IS BULLSHIT. Aw, Man, that was tooooo easy. Suave, you set them up, I'll knock them down. (Rimshot) __________________ 3.141592654 Hey, if you are impressed with my memorizing pi to 10 digits, you should see the size of my penis.

03-13-2005, 10:35 AM	#17 (permalink)
betula Upright Location: Buffalo, NY	Nice BigBen, I agree with you about that graph. It is very easy to lie with statistics, or at the very least, hide findings that don't follow the path you are pushing. I'm a geography buff, and the very same thing is true with maps as it is with graphs. Whenever you generalize something very complex into a 2-D figure, you will lose and distort information. It is up to the reader to try to discern if the generalization is bullshit or not.

03-14-2005, 12:05 AM	#19 (permalink)
Sensei Black Belt in Slacking Off Location: Portland Or-ah-gun	Remember kids, if you don't give 110% then you're not a team player. __________________ Slacking off with style since 1981.