03-03-2005, 04:35 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
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SCARY, very scary
From Fark
The US is developing a weapon designed to create the maximum amount of pain to its target. It plans to use this on PROTESTERS http://www.guerrillanews.com/headlin..._New_US_Weapon This scares the hell out of me. They plan to counter protesting by inflicting excruciating pain. I can't beleive they are researching this. This looks like actual real life evil to me.
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"Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun" -Matt Groening |
03-03-2005, 04:48 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Banned
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hmm, you would think the methods used presently would be sufficient punishment (not that protestors deserve any) to those rioting or demonstrating, two completely different things that should be dealt with in different manners. A demonstration is peaceful, and I would see no justification to use excruciatingly painful weaponry on participants, where as riots are violent, and a weapon such as this can be useful (I personally don't agree with it as I believe contemporary methods are enough, but I can see why they would create such a thing). I'm not surprised in the least that humanity is yet on the verge of creating another weapon to inflict yet more pain, and I'm even less surprised that the US is behind it, like you said, this is simply evil.
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03-03-2005, 05:08 PM | #3 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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Remember the last "non-lethal" weapon? The taser has killed over 80 people in the past few years, and it wasn't even that common on officers. Now, it's everyday in the paper that I hear a new police station is being armed with them.
There is not a single positive outcome that I can imagine the use of this will bring. |
03-03-2005, 05:33 PM | #5 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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In the first place, until i see it on the wires I don't believe it. In the second place, that 80 deaths statistic is BS. USA Today pulled that from an Arizona Republic article, only the Republic's article said 3 people were killed BY the taser, and were not ruled out three other times. The rest of the deaths occurred after the person was hit with th etaser, but were ruled to have other causes - drug overdoses, medical conditions, etc. So now we have 3 deaths and 3 more possible deaths which for the sake of my argument I will put in the "killed by taser" column, to add up to 6. That's 6 deaths after the 100,000 or so times per year that they're used by cops. 6/100,000. That's not a very high kill ratio. And what would you have them use as an alternative? Guns? They have a much higher kill ratio than 6 in every 100,000. This mindless assault on tasers is insane. It's an attempt to give the cops a weapon to use that doesn't involve killing people. Why would you fight against that? |
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03-03-2005, 07:09 PM | #7 (permalink) |
Warrior Smith
Location: missouri
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welcome to the future gentlemen- War is a violent act- remember that they could choose to use a mini gun on rioters- and rubber bullets kill a lot of people every year- would those who dont like this idea prefer the alternatives?
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Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens |
03-03-2005, 09:27 PM | #9 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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If a democratic administration ever uses this, you'll hear the conservatives scream tyranny.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
03-03-2005, 11:23 PM | #10 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Inside an econobox
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I read about something like this in a Popular Science magazine several months ago. The DoD was supposedly looking into a kind of "pain ray" that could temporarily immobilize people. One of the companies involved was developing a ray that would cause your skin to feel like it was on fire but left no permanant damage.
I don't remember reading that such a weapon would be used on protesters. It would, however, certainly make someone think twice about throwing that molotov cocktail if there was a mega-pain ray aimed at him or her, wouldn't it? On the battlefield, it wouldn't make much sense, as the victims of the ray would live to fight and kill you tomorrow (unless the good guys could somehow enter the ray and take the enemies prisoner while they were twitching around on the ground). The way the govt. operates with all its secrets, what we hear about things like this usually ends up being a small fraction of what is actually going on. There's a lot more to this story somewhere, but we won't likely hear it for several years.
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I can has furburger? |
03-04-2005, 01:10 PM | #13 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
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1) What article did you find the mention of this being used on protestors within?
2) I don't understand the objections to this. It serves the function of non-lethally taking folks down with a lessened probability of death or physical harm. Quote:
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03-04-2005, 01:42 PM | #14 (permalink) | |||
Crazy
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
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__________________
"Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun" -Matt Groening |
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03-04-2005, 01:49 PM | #15 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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03-04-2005, 01:50 PM | #16 (permalink) |
Chef in Training
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Certain types of demonstrators believe that economic disruption is the only way to have their voice heard. This can involve rioting, "peaceful non-violent" sit-ins, chaining themselves to trees, blocking traffic, etc. This way of thinking has an impact on innocent and guilty parties alike. They get their message across, they get their publicity, but they also interfere with the lives of people who have nothing to do with their cause or their protest. They won't use this thing on picket lines at the PTA meeting down at the school. There is no reason to.
When you touch a hot pan on the stove, it creates pain, and should teach you not to do it again. I find pain to be a very good deterrent for the stupid things I try to do. I do it, it hurts, and then I don't do it again. How not to get hit by the pain ray? Don't throw rocks at police. And yes, I'm not jaded enough to think that innocent people won't be hit by this thing. Omelette, meet the eggs.
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"We are supposed to be masters of space, but we cant even line up our shoes?" One life, one chance, one opportunity. |
03-04-2005, 02:32 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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of course protesters and dissenters are going to try to hurt economic interests. Thats how getting your message across works. Lets not forget that those with money run this country. By standing off in a little boxed area with a sign, you're not doing anything but taking up space. Of course, thats what ANY government in power will want, just set aside and feel good about your 'protest'.
__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
03-04-2005, 03:27 PM | #18 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Sudbury, Ontario
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Second, The message is disagree with the government and you will feel PAIN, PAIN like you've never felt before.
__________________
"Love is a perky elf dancing a merry little jig and then suddenly he turns on you with a miniature machine gun" -Matt Groening |
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03-04-2005, 03:44 PM | #19 (permalink) | |
Cracking the Whip
Location: Sexymama's arms...
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They plan to use this on rioters not protestors. Big difference. Or would it be better just to shoot them or club them?
__________________
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience." – C. S. Lewis The ONLY sponsors we have are YOU! Please Donate! |
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03-04-2005, 04:58 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Addict
Location: Land of the puny, wimpy states
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Recently (post 9/11), most large protests have been cordoned off into so-called "protest cages" while the police presence seems much more omni-present. Anger over recent events (the first election of W, the war, enviromental concerns...) has escalated. I think cramming angry people who want to have peaceful demonstrations into out-of-the way locations makes them feel that their voices are not being heard and that the government thinks their opinions are of no value. Anger supressed becomes angrier. There are always a few that reach their boiling point and do something stupid, like throw rocks or worse at the police. Protests can become riots this way, things escalate and innocent protesters get hurt too. The threat of more force only serves to highten aggression. The plasma ray looks pretty bad compared to the isolated use of force against specific aggressors.
What concerns me more though is the description in the article about making this weapon cause the maximum amount of pain possible. (who said it burns the flesh?) Could this be just a bit excessive for protests and riots? I like K925's idea of using it in combat. What a much more civilized idea for war. Stun the enemy troops, swoop in while they're unconcious and put them in detetion camps until peace is declaired. Well, it's a nice fantasy.
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Believe nothing, even if I tell it to you, unless it meets with your own good common sense and experience. - Siddhartha Gautama (The Buddha) |
03-04-2005, 09:31 PM | #21 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Anyway this might be used but it likely will only be used in an escalating situation that has already gone bad. Just like they don't immediately taser a person protesting neither will they immediately turn on the pain ray on people who aren't getting violent. It usually will go... Police order a dispersement. If that's ignored. A repeat order will be given. That's ignored tear gas. That still doesn't do it. Water cannons. That still doesn't do it. Send in the riot squad to thump some skulls. The only thing THIS is going to do it put another step inbetween a being asked or coerced into disbursing or stop rioting and the inevitable skull thumping. I don't know about you guys I'd rather have a few moments of blinding pain than a fractured bone because the cops got a little free and loose with their nightsticks. But if you folks are cool with cops wading into people bashing them and causing lasting pain and injury I suppose we could just go back to the good old days of attack dogs. |
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03-04-2005, 11:56 PM | #22 (permalink) |
Pleasure Burn
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Great, just what I need. To have some 40something jerkoff pig shooting intense pain at me from a mile away while I happen to be angrily protesting during a riot.
Okay, so what happens when one of these weapons falls into the wrong hands? Not that pigs have the right hands, but what if some guy broke into a pigmobile and stole one of these?
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I came across a nice rack at the department store |
03-05-2005, 02:31 PM | #24 (permalink) |
Insane
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I'm finding it hard to believe that this kind of technology is bad.
They said its being designed to inflict pain without injury. Its probably an ethical way to deal with violent and destructive protestors. (although this kind of thing would probably make a revolution impossible). They say that they're worried it might be used for torture. It's probably a really valid argument, but this type of thing that doesn't cause injury would probably be better than methods of torture today, like just beating a person to within an inch of life. i agree with manual on the issue of protest cages. Personally i'm wondering what happened to that "goo gun" they were developing. It was supposed to immobilize a person by making it to hard to move with like a sticky goo. just keep in mind that in most cases, conflict is the mother of invention, and war is a conflict. i dont want to sound sexist, so you could use father too. |
03-09-2005, 02:07 PM | #26 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Maineville, OH
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But these zones are NOT exclusively a post-9/11 thing, and not exclusively a George Bush/Republican thing. http://www.commondreams.org/views/081600-105.htm http://www.cnn.com/interactive/allpo.../protests.html http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/chld02.shtml http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1436...000/cher.jhtml http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=11796 (note the quote: "Elend encountered his first zones at the 2000 Democratic Convention in Los Angeles.") And I'm also worried about this new type of "non-lethal" technology being used against the citizenry. Look at the recent death due to Pepper-Balls after the Boston Red Sox won the ALCS against the Yankees. The girl that was killed was a bystander, not in the fracas. She shouldn't have BEEN there, but what happens if the mob finds YOU? One thing I really want to know about the weapon portrayed in the article is: can it be spread over a wide group? If so, I'm VERY scared.
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A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have. -Gerald R. Ford GoogleMap Me Last edited by ScottKuma; 03-09-2005 at 02:11 PM.. |
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03-09-2005, 02:34 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: California
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Look, what do you want the cops to do when rioters start smashing up store fronts and ripping things apart? Use guns to kill em all? Use tear gas, which likely allows people to escape? This can probably be used to immobilize somebody with pain (plenty of things used by cops already cause plenty of pain, like tear gas, so that's nothing new) so wrongdoers can be arrested. I view it like an upgrade to the taser.
Am I worried about it being used in torture? I'm sure it'd be good at it, but I think that American society has not slid far enough to use torture to interrogate its own citizens. But really, it seems to me that this is just a more effective taser. And I'd prefer if people didn't die when it can be avoided.
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It's not getting what you want, it's wanting what you've got. |
03-09-2005, 11:38 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: New Zealand
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This thing looks cool - its a controllable, effective, injury-less deterrant. I say, its a good fucking idea.
Beats the hell out of... er, "beating the hell out of" rioters, don't you think?
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ignorance really is bliss. |
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