Getting over... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 01-20-2005, 12:35 PM

Why is it that people want to get over on something all the time?

I was talking to a coworker yesterday about someone who has a Hamptons house (for those not living in the NYC area Hamptons is where the Beautiful People with money live) and was buying a $.99 spatula from Williams Sonoma (reg priced at $8.99) and returning them to another WS store that has them at $1.99.

I was just reading a thread in a Tivo forum about someone trying to add another Tivo to their parents subscription while he lives down the street so that he can pay $6.95 instead of $12.95.

I've read about people on here who've swindled Best Buy because of their practices.

Now, I'm not so much upset about the fact that people are trying to get away with something. What really upsets me more than anything is the entitlement that one feels when it doesn't go their way and they are penalized for trying to skirt the system.

I really do my best to be honest and full of integrity. I do not like to compromise those values to save a little bit here or there, since the effort that I'm putting into it is probably equal to the dollars saved.

Halx · 01-20-2005, 01:16 PM

Same reason people tend to be fuckwits on the internet. Same fuckin' reason.

Edit: Gotta add more than just a trite response...

It's all about fucking over authority. It's all about finding a little hole in the fabric, and fingering it as much as you can until it's a mile wide. It's all about putting your own little stamp on the world so people will think you're clever, resourceful and rebellious.

Unfortunately, all it does is make you an idiot.

quadro2000 · 01-20-2005, 01:25 PM

I've never really done this purposely. It's happened as a happy accident once or twice, though. For example, we received a food processor off of our registry at Bed Bath & Beyond, valued at $120. Well, the first one we got was broken, and the second one we exchanged it for was also broken, so we went to return it for cash. (BBB's policy with registries is that they give you back cash for your returns.) So they gave us $120 back in cash, instead of just an even exchange. Which was dumb on their part, since we re-purchased it, with a 20% off coupon. So we essentially made a little over $20 back on the deal.

Now to me, that's a pretty good difference. If I were in that situation again, would I take advantage of it? Damn right. I would not go out of my way to buy something and return it, but if I had something that was defective, and I could make money back, yes, I would. To me, that's the "price" I feel they pay for selling me shoddy merchandise.

But no - nobody has the right to complain when they deliberately try to screw the system and don't get away with it.

ARTelevision · 01-20-2005, 01:46 PM

I pay what things cost and I understand that good people like myself earn their livings via my purchases.

Hal's comment is entirely cogent and IMO, correct.

The little hatreds of authority are everywhere present in us - childish though they be. I banish them as they appear within me because I understand that I am a social being and that anti-authoritarianism is antisocial. I know how "smart" I am and I don't have to constantly prove it to myself by getting anything over on anyone.

PayUp · 01-20-2005, 03:17 PM

My next door neighbor told me just yesterday that he returned a deep fryer to wal-mart after owning it for well over a year. He was going to fry up some wings and it would not heat, so off to wal-mart he goes, returns with a new one. He takes really good care of all his possesions and saves the boxes to everything. He even told me about his wife not having to purchase a hair dryer for about 4 years. These neighbors have nice salaries, made some good investments and are doing quite well.

Bottom line he's a cheap fuckin bastard and fucksticks like him are the reasons that stores have to raise prices.

I hope he chokes on a hot wing and his wifes hair falls out.

IowaEric · 01-20-2005, 03:56 PM

If American craftmanship was utilized a helluva lot more, then we wouldn't have shitty products all over the marketplace. I'm not an old-timer by any means, but there was a time when "returns" were a rare, rare occurence.

I say if the marketplace is going to be flooded with shoddily-produced merchandise, and sold at a gross profit percentage, fuck 'em over all you can. The people putting out this crap are making fifty times my annual income and most likely not doing half of the hard work I do. Why is not right for me to get a piece back from them when I can?

And, I would like to add that I consider myself an open, honest person and my integrity is one of my most important values. So let's hear it .. 3 ... 2 ... 1

Glava · 01-20-2005, 04:03 PM

A few years ago, I bought a new ink cartridge ($30 something) at Kmart, and returned the old empty one, claiming that it didn't fit my printer. I did it once, and felt good about myself, but my mother, being paranoid, made me promise her that I'd never do it again. I feel absolutely no guilt over it, but I wouldn't do it again because of paranoia. Instead, I got a Canon, for which generic ink comes out to about $2 per cartridge.

powerclown · 01-20-2005, 04:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

It's all about putting your own little stamp on the world so people will think you're clever, resourceful and rebellious.

Interesting subject.
I'd agree, and add: But whats wrong with that? Who doesn't like feeling these things? Even if your none of them, can one deny the thrill of 'feeling' like them? Rebellion might be seen as one of the foundations of individuality, of creativity. Not necessarily 'destructive' rebellion. Maybe, having a solution to a problem that seems atypical - be it artistic, criminal, sexual, legal, educational, musical, etc.

For all the drain on individuality, the 'rat race', large faceless crowds, the internet, shopping malls, mass transportation, crowded neighborhoods, etc. there is a life-affirming rush to feeling 'unique', no matter how fleeting or genuine. Just my .02 cents...

Yakk · 01-20-2005, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by biljan

My next door neighbor told me just yesterday that he returned a deep fryer to wal-mart after owning it for well over a year. He was going to fry up some wings and it would not heat, so off to wal-mart he goes, returns with a new one. He takes really good care of all his possesions and saves the boxes to everything. He even told me about his wife not having to purchase a hair dryer for about 4 years. These neighbors have nice salaries, made some good investments and are doing quite well.

He returned it to Walmart -- um, was Walmart ok with getting a one-year old deep fryer back? (I assume it was under a warrenty)

If so, what is the problem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glava

A few years ago, I bought a new ink cartridge ($30 something) at Kmart, and returned the old empty one, claiming that it didn't fit my printer. I did it once, and felt good about myself, but my mother, being paranoid, made me promise her that I'd never do it again. I feel absolutely no guilt over it, but I wouldn't do it again because of paranoia. Instead, I got a Canon, for which generic ink comes out to about $2 per cartridge.

This sounds like petty theft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadro2000

I've never really done this purposely. It's happened as a happy accident once or twice, though. For example, we received a food processor off of our registry at Bed Bath & Beyond, valued at $120. Well, the first one we got was broken, and the second one we exchanged it for was also broken, so we went to return it for cash. (BBB's policy with registries is that they give you back cash for your returns.) So they gave us $120 back in cash, instead of just an even exchange. Which was dumb on their part, since we re-purchased it, with a 20% off coupon. So we essentially made a little over $20 back on the deal.

Again, looks like something completely normal. You had a broken product, so you returned it, and they reimbursed you.

Really, I suspect this happens pretty often because many people have very little integrity when they are dealing with people who aren't in their 'in' group.

Ie, if you are 'one of us', they act with honour, and if aren't, you are something to be exploited without guilt.

A sociopath is someone who defines 'one of us' to be just themselves. Some others treat their friends with honour. Some others treat 'real people' with honour, but treat large, abstract groupings of people with contempt (like, companies, etc).

An alternative explanation would be based on Kohberg's 6 stages of Moral Development. Which is probably mostly bullshit, but an interesting read!

People in stage 1 to 3 would find absolutely nothing wrong with petty theft like this when you won't get caught. People in stage 4 might find most of this repugnant. Stage 4.5 would probably support this.

Stages 5 and 6 would have rather complex views on it. =)

Quote:

A. PREMORAL OR PRECONVENTIONAL STAGES: Behavior motivated by anticipation of pleasure or pain.
STAGE 1: PUNISHMENT AND OBEDIENCE:

Avoidance of physical punishment and deference to power. Punishment is an automatic response of physical retaliation. The immediate physical consequences of an action determine its goodness or badness. The atrocities carried out by soldiers during the holocaust who were simply "carrying out orders" under threat of punishment, illustrate that adults as well as children may function at stage one level.
STAGE 2: INSTRUMENTAL EXCHANGE:

Marketplace exchange of favors or blows. "You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours." Justice is: "Do unto others as they do unto you." Individual does what is necessary, makes concessions only as necessary to satisfy his own needs. Right action consists of what instrumentally satisfies one's own needs. Vengeance is considered a moral duty. People are valued in terms of their utility.

B. CONVENTIONAL MORALITY: Acceptance of the rules and standards of one's group.
STAGE 3: INTERPERSONAL CONFORMITY:

Right is conformity to the behavioral expectations of one's society or peers. Individual acts to gain approval of others. Good behavior is that which pleases or helps others within the group. "Everybody is doing it." One earns approval by being conventionally "respectable" and "nice." Sin is a breach of the expectations of the social order. Retribution, however, at this stage is collective. Individual vengeance is not allowed. Forgiveness is preferable to revenge. Punishment is mainly for deterrence. Failure to punish is "unfair." "If he can get away with it, why can't I?"
STAGE 4: LAW AND ORDER:

Respect for rules, laws and properly constituted authority. Defense of the given social and institutional order for it's own sake. Responsibility toward the welfare of others in the society. "Justice" normally refers to criminal or forensic justice. Justice demands that the wrongdoer be punished, that he "pay his debt to society," and that law abiders be rewarded. "A good day's pay for a good day's work." Injustice is failing to reward work or punish demerit. Right behavior consists of maintaining the social order for its own sake. Authority figures are seldom questioned. "He must be right. He's the Pope (or the President, or the Judge, or God)." Consistency and precedent must be maintained.
STAGE 4 ½:

Between the conventional stages and the post-conventional Levels 5 and 6, there is a transitional stage. College-age students that have come to see conventional morality as relative and arbitrary, but have not yet discovered universal ethical principles, may drop into a hedonistic ethic of "do your own thing." This was well noted in the hippie culture of the l960's. Disrespect for conventional morality was especially infuriating to the Stage 4 mentality, and indeed was calculated to be so.

C. POSTCONVENTIONAL OR PRINCIPLED MORALITY: Ethical principles
STAGE 5: PRIOR RIGHTS AND SOCIAL CONTRACT:

Moral action in a specific situation is not defined by reference to a checklist of rules, but from logical application of universal, abstract, moral principles. Individuals have natural or inalienable rights and liberties that are prior to society and must be protected by society. Retributive justice repudiated. Justice distributed proportionate to circumstances and need. "Situation ethics." The statement, "Justice demands punishment," which is a self-evident truism to the Stage 4 mind, is just as self-evidently nonsense at Stage 5. Retributive punishment is neither rational nor just, because it does not promote the rights and welfare of the individual. Only legal sanctions that fulfill that purpose are imposed-- protection of future victims, deterrence, and rehabilitation. Individual acts out of mutual obligation and a sense of public good. Right action tends to be defined in terms of general individual rights, and in terms of standards that have been critically examined and agreed upon by the whole society--e.g. the Constitution. The freedom of the individual should be limited by society only when it infringes upon someone else's freedom.
STAGE 6: UNIVERSAL ETHICAL PRINCIPLES:

An individual who reaches this stage acts out of universal principles based upon the equality and worth of all human beings. Persons are never means to an end, but are ends in themselves. Having rights means more than individual liberties. It means that every individual is due consideration of his interests in every situation, those interests being of equal importance with ones own. This is the "Golden Rule" model. A list of rules inscribed in stone is no longer necessary.

At this level, God is understood to say what is right because it is right; His sayings are not right, just because it is God who said them. Persons at this level have accepted God's invitation to "come and let us reason together".

THE FOLLOWING ARE OBSERVATIONS THAT WERE MADE BY KOHLBERG

FURTHER EXPLAINING HUMAN DEVELOPMENT IN STAGES.
1. STAGE DEVELOPMENT IS INVARIANT.

One must progress through the stages in order, and one cannot get to a higher stage without passing through the stage immediately preceding it. A belief that such a leap into moral maturity is possible is in sharp contrast to the facts of developmental research. Moral development is growth, and like all growth, takes place according to a pre-determined sequence. To expect someone to grow into high moral maturity overnight would be like expecting someone to walk before he crawls.
2. IN STAGE DEVELOPMENT, SUBJECTS CANNOT COMPREHEND MORAL REASONING AT A STAGE MORE THAN ONE STAGE BEYOND THEIR OWN.

If Johnny is oriented to see good almost exclusively as that which brings him satisfaction, how will he understand a concept of good in which the "good" may bring him no tangible pleasure at all. The moral maxim "It is better to give than to receive" reflects a high level of development. The child who honestly asks you why it is better to give than to receive, does so because he does not and cannot understand such thinking. To him, "better" means better for him. And how can it be better for him to give, than to get.
3. IN STAGE DEVELOPMENT INDIVIDUALS ARE COGNITIVELY ATTRACTED TO REASONING ONE LEVEL ABOVE THEIR OWN PRESENT PREDOMINANT LEVEL.

The person has questions and problems the solutions for which are less satisfying at his present level. Since reasoning at one stage higher is intelligible and since it makes more sense and resolves more difficulties, it is more attractive.

For example, two brothers both want the last piece of pie. The bigger, stronger brother will probably get it. The little brother suggests they share it. He is thinking at level two, rather than at level one. The solution for him is more attractive: getting some rather than none. An adult who functions at level one consistently will end up in prison or dead.
4. IN STAGE DEVELOPMENT, MOVEMENT THROUGH THE STAGES IS EFFECTED WHEN COGNITIVE DISEQUILIBRIUM IS CREATED, THAT IS, WHEN A PERSON'S COGNITIVE OUTLOOK IS NOT ADEQUATE TO COPE WITH A GIVEN MORAL DILEMMA.

The person who is growing, will look for more and more adequate ways of solving problems. If he has no problems, no dilemmas, he is not likely to look for solutions. He will not grow morally. In the apple pie example. The big brother, who can just take the pie and get away with it, is less likely to look for a better solution than the younger brother who will get none and probably a beating in the struggle.
5. IT IS QUITE POSSIBLE FOR A HUMAN BEING TO BE PHYSICALLY MATURE BUT NOT MORALLY MATURE.

If a child is spoiled, never having to accommodate for others needs, if he is raised in an environment where level two thinking by others gets the job done, he may never generate enough questions to propel him to a higher level of moral reasoning.
6. KOHLBERG BELIEVED THAT ONLY ABOUT 25% OF PERSONS EVER GROW TO LEVEL SIX, THE MAJORITY REMAINING AT LEVEL FOUR.

The Bible enjoins principles of modesty, humility, and wise stewardship of the money. Application of these principles might preclude the purchase of expensive jewelry, furs, flashy cars, or other items primarily for show. A person functioning at level six would have no problem applying these principles. Persons functioning at a level four on the other hand, might make rules about "jewelry" (in a church for instance) or red dresses, or cosmetics. But they might not even notice a flashy car or the lady who wears a new dress every single week. Those things aren't on the list. If Kohlberg's observation is true, then level 6 thinkers would be in the minority. They might even be misunderstood and persecuted by a level 4 majority (Christ being the primary example).

http://www.aggelia.com/htdocs/kohlberg.shtml

Grancey · 01-20-2005, 10:04 PM

During the past year my husband and I subscribed to Verizon, and I got one of the nifty little camera phones. After taking a few pictures I knew that I might want to save some of those to my hard drive. So, I went back to the Verizon store and asked how to do this and what I needed in order to do this. I was told that I would need the "mobile office kit". They did not have this in stock, but they offered to order it for me. I did this at a price tag of $65. Now, I'm not the type of person to open my toys and play with them as soon as I get them. I like to "wait" until I am ready. So, after a couple of months I decided to try downloading some pics from the phone. I opened the "mobile office kit" and discovered that this item had nothing to do with saving pictures from my cell phone to the hard drive. So, back to the Verizon store. Well, after 15 days you can't return anything. Am I pissed? Am I screwed? Did the employees mislead me by idiocy or just laziness in not knowing the merchandise? So, I'm stuck with this $65 piece of crap I don't need and won't use. And Verizon? Well........I guess I should have had the employee demonstrate the product for me when I picked it up. Actually, that never occurred to me. I thought I could read the instructions when I got around to it.......... So, if someone gets their jollies by making a couple of bucks off Wal-mart, I'm not going to condemn them.

Grasshopper Green · 01-21-2005, 06:45 PM

I used to handle returns at the grocery store I used to work with; some of the stuff I saw was utterly ridiculous. Some people have this sort of thing down to an art form and practically make a living off of it. We had a woman come in with a whole bunch of stuff she had just purchased at another store (same chain) saying she needed a refund. However, she bought everything with foodstamps and wanted cash back; she tried talking to one of the other girls first so she could pull a fast one without a manager getting involved.

I think a lot of it boils down to the look out for number one mentality that a lot of people have these days. It doesn't matter that you're being dishonest and screwing someone over, as long as you have an extra buck, it's all good.

raeanna74 · 01-22-2005, 02:30 PM

It's really sad when people are trying to make this buck "unfairly" without regard for others. I've had to return products even grocery store items. Ex. bought a bag of shredded cheese, got home to make supper, Cheese had mold in it, I had the receipt from the same day and took the stuff back. All I did was get what I had paid for in the condition which I expected it in. I have found a manufacturer coupon and combined it with an instore coupon or sale and ended up paying a tiny amount for a product (something like 6cents for a can of tuna) but it was above board and fair to all those involved. No one ended up footing the whole bill for the discounts. I've even asked for a sale price after I'd paid for a product but hadn't picked it up. This was a Slumberland and when we returned for the mattress when it came in I had found an advertizement the very week between the order and pickup. I brought it with, asked if it was possible to get money back and got something around $50-60 back if I remember right. I've never tried to return a large item that I bought on sale just to get the extra money back. It's not right or worth my trouble I think. That woman buying things with foodstamps and returning?! Eeek the only things you can't buy with food stamps are NON food items and alcohol. The purpose of food stamps is to make sure the kids in the home are well fed. She doesn't appear she had her kids best interest at heart. Glad she got caught.

Frowning Budah · 01-22-2005, 03:37 PM

Cynthetig, I understand your frustration. We had a hurricane down here and you should have heard the scamming going on. People whose cars have needed painting for years suddenly had been damaged in the hurricane and the insurance ended up painting them. People making big salaries and had no damages were stock piling cases of MRE. Repairs to their Houses that had nothing to do with the storm. That kind of crap. The thing that really irks me abt this is these are the same people claim to be so honest and upstanding.
I don't think I mind the scamming as much as I hate the hypocrisy abt being so pious the whole time you are ripping people off.

rfra3645 · 01-22-2005, 04:05 PM

i hav done some "scaming" in the past. i didnt profess to be 100% honest. it all started out as getting back from the big guy ( or the man) what i had givven. in other words i was ballancing the system for my self. some people would say my getign 35% off my cell phone bill evrey month is a scam. i say they offered it to me so i am taking advantage of it. some would say my silverbird satelite is wrong. i will admit buying a higher up version of my printer and then returnign the older one in the new box was probally a fellony, (but when the walmart mngr looked at it and then recpiet and the printer and said these numbers dont match but gave me the 200 anyway, ) its there fault. i wont do that again it was pretty damn scary. but it was one hell of a rush.

all in all i see this happen all the time. i hear about it more. i feel like the big corporations screw me alott more than i get them. if i see a big fat chance to get mine back....... i have opted to follow that lane on ocasion.

as far as fraud goes i think i have only took part of that omce. like i said it was awfull scarry but 1 helluva rush. i wont be reapeating that sceanerio. as far as the why. i dunna know.... i dont really have one i just felt the need to be a

Quote:

by halx ~ fuckwit

anyway.. i say if your comfortable doing this go for it.. i also wish you luck.....

rfra3645 · 01-22-2005, 09:03 PM

all right here goes again.... ive been thinking about this for a little while and decided i must write more... so i feel like i get the shaft in the long run most of the time.. just about evreywhere.. i actually happen to have somethign that i think could be related to this subject goign on right now.. ok so while i was home for christmass me and my brother and our families got our picture taken at penny's as a birthday gift for our mom. her b-day was jan 12th. we got the pics taken dec 19. ok so we go in the girl was very good at getting a 4,3,2,1, and 0 yr old all getting to smile or at least eyes open in just i takes... w/o wearing any kids out or pissing us off. i had to hand it to her she did great. we went back to the little monitor to look at all she took and we decided on the next to last one. it was really a great pic. except for the piece of curtian rod that showed pretty much the whole left top side of the pic.. plus it had a nice big green sticker on it. my wife was the first to point it out. she asked will that be taken out. the girl said oh yes we dont need to do any more they will crop that at the factory place. then she says look how much head room you have. yes it will be ok you wont see it in the final print. we were verry pleased yes ok well do it.. we bought our pakcges and then the pressent. a 24 x 32 large framed canvas print. for mom of course. we paid evreything was great blah blah blah ... she said ok theyll be ready on the 13th.. we were like uuhhooo um is there a chance they could be early our moms b-day is the 12th.. she said yes they usually come in 1 day early. if you call 1st you can come get it... well the time went by and the 12th came my brother called.. ( ilive 9 hrs from there) and they said ummm no we told you the 14th.. he went through how we asked and they said and the wrote on the paper the 13th. they said sorry not till the 14th. ok he said ill be there to get them... so he goes and im sorry sir we got your packages but the big picture wont be in till the 17th. uummm thats a problem. well im sorry sir thats just the way it is. ok he says whatever let me see what did came in. she pulls them out and there it is the big green sticker and the background bar. the lady is liek wow thats weird. that shoudlnt be there... she gets her mngr they talk and decide to send the pics back to vegas add a free border to cover the extra "prop" and fed ex the new pics straight to his house. ok so now my brother is mad like please have your mngr call me.. he figured we spent 240$ on pictures that were supposed to be here and right on the 13th and now they arent. that they would knock some off for being late at least appologise. the store mngr says ok. yesterday so 8 days later he called back to the store to find out what was happening. and find out why the disct mngr hadnt called him. they store mngr stated im srry i thoguht we made you happy. he said he would be happy if he had the pictures. well sir im sorry but theese things take time. ill have my boss call you she will within 2 days. 2o min later she did call him. what she had to say was not very comforting basicly the same deal the other lady said. now brother isnt really that convincing. but im like extremley upset. not only did we not get mom anything else but now her birthday has come and verry well gone.. so imeditlay my mind goes into im getting scrwed mode. i feel totaly like i am... the first thing i want to do is call and scream and cuss and piss someone off as much as i am.. ( just for principale) but prior exeriances tell me not to do that. instead i intend to find and learn what there "policy" says about extra props in picturs, returns, dates being missed, being written off my store mgnmt, and gennerly screwing customers. now i dont want to be a fuckwit but the way i see it ive got a free 24 x 32 canvas portrait coming. i know i can after i learn and use what i learn against them. the way i see it i have been trained by corporate america to defend myself against butt pluggins. the worst part of this is i absolutley dont feel any remorse. they owe me something. they were more than happy to take my check before orderign the pics. now that they scrwed up they are more than happy to make me wait untill they fix it. im more than happy to get somethign from them. so cmon lets hear it..

is this a scam or rightfull argument.

seems liek this kinda crap happens to me allott..

i figure i have 2 choices take it or fight it...

Glava · 01-22-2005, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rfra3645

all in all i see this happen all the time. i hear about it more. i feel like the big corporations screw me alott more than i get them. if i see a big fat chance to get mine back....... i have opted to follow that lane on ocasion.

ALL consumers definitely get screwed over by corporations, and sometimes, consumers get to screw them back (albeit in a very minor way); however, the difference is that we usually have full knowledge and give (somewhat forced) consent to the screwage by paying for the corporation's products and services. When we screw the corporation, they do not have full knowledge, but instead have employees that are very often incompetent or simply overly willing to avoid conflict with a customer.

Shpoop · 01-22-2005, 10:02 PM

someone who was a former insurance agent told me this: If you get a ticket, send them a check for five dollars more than it costs. they will send you a check for five dollars back. if you never cash it, they never cash theirs, or the transaction is never completed...and you get out of paying for a ticket! down with the system!!!

I've never done it though, and never will, for multiple reasons. 1) If i break the law, i deserve punishment 2) I'm not sure i trust it, and the possible ramifications far outweigh saving forty bucks. 3) I'm a pussy

Rodney · 01-23-2005, 07:05 AM

Screwage in the system is commonplace; I remember once receiving a cable tv offer to get a free premium channel for a dollar a month for a year; at any time up to a year, I could discontinue it for free. When I did discontinue it, six months later because I didn't watch it, they charged me $10. Rules changed. I called the local county consumer protection agency and they told me it was legal. But they called the cable company, which backed down. Turned out they _always_ backed down when the county called, but no other time. They were counting on most people just grunting, feeling helpless and paying the money.

There's a large medical clinic in town owned by a fairly corrupt medical chain. They require $15 up front when you walk in the door as a general co-pay before you see a doctor; they even give you a receipt. But it _never_ shows up on your bill; you're down as not paying the copay. If you try to get through to their billing office, you'll have your number taken and nobody will ever get back to you. The only way to get satisfaction is to go down there, in the middle of a business day, _with_ your receipt and statement and wait there for an hour or so. Most people don't bother; they just pay the copay again on their statement. And management knows that they will.
Would I actively try to screw either of these companies? No. If somehow they made a mistake and didn't bill me for something, would I correct them? No, not for something small. Not only is helping a cheater of low priority, I'm not sure they'd even know how to accept the correction through their purposefully tangled bureaucracy. They're not worth the trouble.

On the subject of why privileged individuals want something for nothing... In the local paper a few years ago, a local prankster/social commentator tried an experiment. He and a reporter went out to a busy intersection in a very privileged community, and the guy stood there with a sandwich board on that read "I'll give you a dollar." He had a wad of dollar bills in his hand. Car after car whizzed by; obviously this was too weird for most people. But after a while, a new Mercedes pulled up, driven by a slender blonde dressed like money, she stuck her hand out. He gave her the dollar and she drove away without a word.

Some people just think the world exists to serve them; they are entitled. They'll shamelessly take advantage of anything they can because, well, it's their right. What's behind this? I dunno; skewed values, maybe a big personal lack. It's not a healthy way to be.

yellowchef · 01-23-2005, 10:01 AM

Im a poor, hungry, working student, and even I cant see the reason for returning a $.99 spatula to a place that sells them for $1.99 in the hopes of gaining a dollar. Its a pain to go from one store to the other, and its a DOLLAR. I know EVERY DOLLAR COUNTS for me but come on. Its all about the rush, the power trip.. the feeling of one upsmanship. Ill never understand it, I dont understand it all either. Then again I have values and integrity.

Manic_Skafe · 01-23-2005, 11:00 AM

I work in a bookstore and it's disgusting how far people will go when they feel entitled to do so or when they feel like they can get away with doing so. It's against our policy to kick people out because we attempt to create a comfortable but not like a library feel to our stores and there are people who come in on a daily basis from open to close just to start and finish reading books with no intent on paying for them. These are the same people that will damage a book just so that they can demand a discount.

Why is it that people don't understand that it took creative minds to get these products into the stores and that when you get something for less than it's worth you insult all the effort that went into creating their book or that deepfryer and you steal from the paychecks of those who work at the store because there's less money going around and less of an oppurtunity for more hours/raises.

Of all the things life has taught me I couldn't believe in the idea that nothing is free more firmly than I do now. It might not be in as mystical a manner as you'd expect but when you attempt to get over and harm other people in the process - you'll be forced to pay fhe difference anyway.

waltert · 01-23-2005, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARTelevision

The little hatreds of authority are everywhere present in us - childish though they be. I banish them as they appear within me because I understand that I am a social being and that anti-authoritarianism is antisocial. I know how "smart" I am and I don't have to constantly prove it to myself by getting anything over on anyone.

yeah, I know about those little hatreds. I payed $100 for a parking pass to allow me to park in a certain area.

and then I received a $20 fine for having backed into a parking spot. (while parking in the area that I payed to park in in the first place).

Its hard to resist the urge to do something (semi-destructive) to negate the profit that these guys will make from writing me a citation.

fortunately I'll probably forget about it

la petite moi · 01-24-2005, 06:00 PM

My mom is one of these people that likes to work the system. She'll print off a hundred online coupons and spend her days getting 5$ off on different trips to the store, even when the coupon says "one coupon per customer".

Also, she will buy something that is expensive that has a very large coupon on it, and then return it to get the full price back- usually she gets 15-20$ from that.

The reason she does this is not just to seem clever or swindle the store, necessarily, but because as a child she grew up in an extremely poor family (she once ate dog food because she was so hungry). This has made her obsessed with saving money.

Coppertop · 01-24-2005, 06:12 PM

I lived through this:

http://news.com.com/Snafu+prompts+Mi..._3-235382.html

Quote:

Snafu prompts Microsoft to suspend some PC rebates
Published: January 7, 2000, 1:25 PM PST
By Michael Kanellos
Staff Writer, CNET News.com
TrackBack Print E-mail TalkBack

Microsoft has suspended its MSN rebate programs in California and Oregon because a contract provision unintentionally allows customers in those states to wring $400 out of the software giant.

Because of the way the California and Oregon contracts are written, customers effectively can cancel their MSN service contracts but still qualify for Microsoft's rebate.

MSN has been offering $400 rebates to computer buyers who agreed to subscribe to the Internet service for three years through Best Buy, OfficeMax and Office Depot, among other stores. In 48 states, the contract is fairly clear. Customers have to subscribe to MSN for three years to qualify for the $400 rebate, said Tom Pilla, a Microsoft spokesman. If customers cancel the contract, penalty provisions kick in that allow Microsoft to recover part or all of the rebate.

California and Oregon, however, have passed consumer protection laws that prevent companies from linking the purchase of goods to loans. Microsoft worried that its rebate program could be interpreted as a loan, Pilla said.

To get around the law, Microsoft inserted the following clause--"You are not obligated to continue as an MSN Internet access member for any particular length of time"--into its contracts for California and Oregon.

Subsequently, the California Department of Corporations informed Microsoft that the law didn't apply to its deal, Pilla said. Microsoft will be able to offer rebates to customers and still keep its recapture provisions, he added.

Pilla said that the suspension of the rebate program was temporary, indicating that it could come back soon.

The three-year/$400 rebate has been a spark plug for the PC industry this year. Consumer PC sales grew by 30 percent during the summer while MSN and CompuServe, a once moribund division of AOL, saw subscriber rates jump because of these rebates.

Under these deals, consumers either get cash back through a mail-in rebate or qualify for instant in-store credit. CompuServe said it will cancel its cash rebate deal at the end of the month, although a store credit deal at Circuit City will continue into June.

People went nuts at the stores. Things like DVD players sold out in a matter of hours. It was really crazy.

edit - I guess I could clarify more. People would buy $400 worth of items at Best Buy or Office Depot, fill out the info necessary for MSN's internet thingy, and cancel the next day and they'd still get the $400 check in the mail. I know of people who took a day off from work to go to the store at opening to get the best items available.

01-20-2005, 12:35 PM	#1 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Getting over... Why is it that people want to get over on something all the time? I was talking to a coworker yesterday about someone who has a Hamptons house (for those not living in the NYC area Hamptons is where the Beautiful People with money live) and was buying a $.99 spatula from Williams Sonoma (reg priced at $8.99) and returning them to another WS store that has them at $1.99. I was just reading a thread in a Tivo forum about someone trying to add another Tivo to their parents subscription while he lives down the street so that he can pay $6.95 instead of $12.95. I've read about people on here who've swindled Best Buy because of their practices. Now, I'm not so much upset about the fact that people are trying to get away with something. What really upsets me more than anything is the entitlement that one feels when it doesn't go their way and they are penalized for trying to skirt the system. I really do my best to be honest and full of integrity. I do not like to compromise those values to save a little bit here or there, since the effort that I'm putting into it is probably equal to the dollars saved. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

01-20-2005, 01:16 PM	#2 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	Same reason people tend to be fuckwits on the internet. Same fuckin' reason. Edit: Gotta add more than just a trite response... It's all about fucking over authority. It's all about finding a little hole in the fabric, and fingering it as much as you can until it's a mile wide. It's all about putting your own little stamp on the world so people will think you're clever, resourceful and rebellious. Unfortunately, all it does is make you an idiot. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals] Last edited by Halx; 01-20-2005 at 01:19 PM..

01-20-2005, 01:25 PM	#3 (permalink)
quadro2000 All Possibility, Made Of Custard Location: New York, NY	I've never really done this purposely. It's happened as a happy accident once or twice, though. For example, we received a food processor off of our registry at Bed Bath & Beyond, valued at $120. Well, the first one we got was broken, and the second one we exchanged it for was also broken, so we went to return it for cash. (BBB's policy with registries is that they give you back cash for your returns.) So they gave us $120 back in cash, instead of just an even exchange. Which was dumb on their part, since we re-purchased it, with a 20% off coupon. So we essentially made a little over $20 back on the deal. Now to me, that's a pretty good difference. If I were in that situation again, would I take advantage of it? Damn right. I would not go out of my way to buy something and return it, but if I had something that was defective, and I could make money back, yes, I would. To me, that's the "price" I feel they pay for selling me shoddy merchandise. But no - nobody has the right to complain when they deliberately try to screw the system and don't get away with it. __________________ You have to laugh at yourself...because you'd cry your eyes out if you didn't. - Emily Saliers

01-20-2005, 01:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I pay what things cost and I understand that good people like myself earn their livings via my purchases. Hal's comment is entirely cogent and IMO, correct. The little hatreds of authority are everywhere present in us - childish though they be. I banish them as they appear within me because I understand that I am a social being and that anti-authoritarianism is antisocial. I know how "smart" I am and I don't have to constantly prove it to myself by getting anything over on anyone. __________________ create evolution

01-20-2005, 03:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
PayUp DILLIGAF Location: AZ	My next door neighbor told me just yesterday that he returned a deep fryer to wal-mart after owning it for well over a year. He was going to fry up some wings and it would not heat, so off to wal-mart he goes, returns with a new one. He takes really good care of all his possesions and saves the boxes to everything. He even told me about his wife not having to purchase a hair dryer for about 4 years. These neighbors have nice salaries, made some good investments and are doing quite well. Bottom line he's a cheap fuckin bastard and fucksticks like him are the reasons that stores have to raise prices. I hope he chokes on a hot wing and his wifes hair falls out. __________________ Born to Lose.

01-20-2005, 03:56 PM	#6 (permalink)
IowaEric Tilted Location: You'd never guess..	If American craftmanship was utilized a helluva lot more, then we wouldn't have shitty products all over the marketplace. I'm not an old-timer by any means, but there was a time when "returns" were a rare, rare occurence. I say if the marketplace is going to be flooded with shoddily-produced merchandise, and sold at a gross profit percentage, fuck 'em over all you can. The people putting out this crap are making fifty times my annual income and most likely not doing half of the hard work I do. Why is not right for me to get a piece back from them when I can? And, I would like to add that I consider myself an open, honest person and my integrity is one of my most important values. So let's hear it .. 3 ... 2 ... 1

01-20-2005, 04:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
Glava Betitled	A few years ago, I bought a new ink cartridge ($30 something) at Kmart, and returned the old empty one, claiming that it didn't fit my printer. I did it once, and felt good about myself, but my mother, being paranoid, made me promise her that I'd never do it again. I feel absolutely no guilt over it, but I wouldn't do it again because of paranoia. Instead, I got a Canon, for which generic ink comes out to about $2 per cartridge.

01-20-2005, 10:04 PM	#10 (permalink)
Grancey Life's short, gotta hurry... Location: land of pit vipers	During the past year my husband and I subscribed to Verizon, and I got one of the nifty little camera phones. After taking a few pictures I knew that I might want to save some of those to my hard drive. So, I went back to the Verizon store and asked how to do this and what I needed in order to do this. I was told that I would need the "mobile office kit". They did not have this in stock, but they offered to order it for me. I did this at a price tag of $65. Now, I'm not the type of person to open my toys and play with them as soon as I get them. I like to "wait" until I am ready. So, after a couple of months I decided to try downloading some pics from the phone. I opened the "mobile office kit" and discovered that this item had nothing to do with saving pictures from my cell phone to the hard drive. So, back to the Verizon store. Well, after 15 days you can't return anything. Am I pissed? Am I screwed? Did the employees mislead me by idiocy or just laziness in not knowing the merchandise? So, I'm stuck with this $65 piece of crap I don't need and won't use. And Verizon? Well........I guess I should have had the employee demonstrate the product for me when I picked it up. Actually, that never occurred to me. I thought I could read the instructions when I got around to it.......... So, if someone gets their jollies by making a couple of bucks off Wal-mart, I'm not going to condemn them. __________________ Quiet, mild-mannered souls might just turn out to be roaring lions of two-fisted cool.

01-21-2005, 06:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I used to handle returns at the grocery store I used to work with; some of the stuff I saw was utterly ridiculous. Some people have this sort of thing down to an art form and practically make a living off of it. We had a woman come in with a whole bunch of stuff she had just purchased at another store (same chain) saying she needed a refund. However, she bought everything with foodstamps and wanted cash back; she tried talking to one of the other girls first so she could pull a fast one without a manager getting involved. I think a lot of it boils down to the look out for number one mentality that a lot of people have these days. It doesn't matter that you're being dishonest and screwing someone over, as long as you have an extra buck, it's all good. Last edited by Grasshopper Green; 01-21-2005 at 06:48 PM..

01-22-2005, 02:30 PM	#12 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	It's really sad when people are trying to make this buck "unfairly" without regard for others. I've had to return products even grocery store items. Ex. bought a bag of shredded cheese, got home to make supper, Cheese had mold in it, I had the receipt from the same day and took the stuff back. All I did was get what I had paid for in the condition which I expected it in. I have found a manufacturer coupon and combined it with an instore coupon or sale and ended up paying a tiny amount for a product (something like 6cents for a can of tuna) but it was above board and fair to all those involved. No one ended up footing the whole bill for the discounts. I've even asked for a sale price after I'd paid for a product but hadn't picked it up. This was a Slumberland and when we returned for the mattress when it came in I had found an advertizement the very week between the order and pickup. I brought it with, asked if it was possible to get money back and got something around $50-60 back if I remember right. I've never tried to return a large item that I bought on sale just to get the extra money back. It's not right or worth my trouble I think. That woman buying things with foodstamps and returning?! Eeek the only things you can't buy with food stamps are NON food items and alcohol. The purpose of food stamps is to make sure the kids in the home are well fed. She doesn't appear she had her kids best interest at heart. Glad she got caught. __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

01-22-2005, 03:37 PM	#13 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	Cynthetig, I understand your frustration. We had a hurricane down here and you should have heard the scamming going on. People whose cars have needed painting for years suddenly had been damaged in the hurricane and the insurance ended up painting them. People making big salaries and had no damages were stock piling cases of MRE. Repairs to their Houses that had nothing to do with the storm. That kind of crap. The thing that really irks me abt this is these are the same people claim to be so honest and upstanding. I don't think I mind the scamming as much as I hate the hypocrisy abt being so pious the whole time you are ripping people off.

01-22-2005, 09:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
rfra3645 Crazy Location: geff il	all right here goes again.... ive been thinking about this for a little while and decided i must write more... so i feel like i get the shaft in the long run most of the time.. just about evreywhere.. i actually happen to have somethign that i think could be related to this subject goign on right now.. ok so while i was home for christmass me and my brother and our families got our picture taken at penny's as a birthday gift for our mom. her b-day was jan 12th. we got the pics taken dec 19. ok so we go in the girl was very good at getting a 4,3,2,1, and 0 yr old all getting to smile or at least eyes open in just i takes... w/o wearing any kids out or pissing us off. i had to hand it to her she did great. we went back to the little monitor to look at all she took and we decided on the next to last one. it was really a great pic. except for the piece of curtian rod that showed pretty much the whole left top side of the pic.. plus it had a nice big green sticker on it. my wife was the first to point it out. she asked will that be taken out. the girl said oh yes we dont need to do any more they will crop that at the factory place. then she says look how much head room you have. yes it will be ok you wont see it in the final print. we were verry pleased yes ok well do it.. we bought our pakcges and then the pressent. a 24 x 32 large framed canvas print. for mom of course. we paid evreything was great blah blah blah ... she said ok theyll be ready on the 13th.. we were like uuhhooo um is there a chance they could be early our moms b-day is the 12th.. she said yes they usually come in 1 day early. if you call 1st you can come get it... well the time went by and the 12th came my brother called.. ( ilive 9 hrs from there) and they said ummm no we told you the 14th.. he went through how we asked and they said and the wrote on the paper the 13th. they said sorry not till the 14th. ok he said ill be there to get them... so he goes and im sorry sir we got your packages but the big picture wont be in till the 17th. uummm thats a problem. well im sorry sir thats just the way it is. ok he says whatever let me see what did came in. she pulls them out and there it is the big green sticker and the background bar. the lady is liek wow thats weird. that shoudlnt be there... she gets her mngr they talk and decide to send the pics back to vegas add a free border to cover the extra "prop" and fed ex the new pics straight to his house. ok so now my brother is mad like please have your mngr call me.. he figured we spent 240$ on pictures that were supposed to be here and right on the 13th and now they arent. that they would knock some off for being late at least appologise. the store mngr says ok. yesterday so 8 days later he called back to the store to find out what was happening. and find out why the disct mngr hadnt called him. they store mngr stated im srry i thoguht we made you happy. he said he would be happy if he had the pictures. well sir im sorry but theese things take time. ill have my boss call you she will within 2 days. 2o min later she did call him. what she had to say was not very comforting basicly the same deal the other lady said. now brother isnt really that convincing. but im like extremley upset. not only did we not get mom anything else but now her birthday has come and verry well gone.. so imeditlay my mind goes into im getting scrwed mode. i feel totaly like i am... the first thing i want to do is call and scream and cuss and piss someone off as much as i am.. ( just for principale) but prior exeriances tell me not to do that. instead i intend to find and learn what there "policy" says about extra props in picturs, returns, dates being missed, being written off my store mgnmt, and gennerly screwing customers. now i dont want to be a fuckwit but the way i see it ive got a free 24 x 32 canvas portrait coming. i know i can after i learn and use what i learn against them. the way i see it i have been trained by corporate america to defend myself against butt pluggins. the worst part of this is i absolutley dont feel any remorse. they owe me something. they were more than happy to take my check before orderign the pics. now that they scrwed up they are more than happy to make me wait untill they fix it. im more than happy to get somethign from them. so cmon lets hear it.. is this a scam or rightfull argument. seems liek this kinda crap happens to me allott.. i figure i have 2 choices take it or fight it... __________________ this post is a natural product made from recycled electrons. the slight variations in spelling, grammar and punctuation enhance its individual character and individuality and are in no way to be considered flaws or defects. if you cant read my post i dont want to hear about it move on. thanks

01-22-2005, 10:02 PM	#17 (permalink)
Shpoop Curious Location: NJ (but just for college)	someone who was a former insurance agent told me this: If you get a ticket, send them a check for five dollars more than it costs. they will send you a check for five dollars back. if you never cash it, they never cash theirs, or the transaction is never completed...and you get out of paying for a ticket! down with the system!!! I've never done it though, and never will, for multiple reasons. 1) If i break the law, i deserve punishment 2) I'm not sure i trust it, and the possible ramifications far outweigh saving forty bucks. 3) I'm a pussy

01-23-2005, 07:05 AM	#18 (permalink)
Rodney Observant Ruminant Location: Rich Wannabe Hippie Town	Screwage in the system is commonplace; I remember once receiving a cable tv offer to get a free premium channel for a dollar a month for a year; at any time up to a year, I could discontinue it for free. When I did discontinue it, six months later because I didn't watch it, they charged me $10. Rules changed. I called the local county consumer protection agency and they told me it was legal. But they called the cable company, which backed down. Turned out they _always_ backed down when the county called, but no other time. They were counting on most people just grunting, feeling helpless and paying the money. There's a large medical clinic in town owned by a fairly corrupt medical chain. They require $15 up front when you walk in the door as a general co-pay before you see a doctor; they even give you a receipt. But it _never_ shows up on your bill; you're down as not paying the copay. If you try to get through to their billing office, you'll have your number taken and nobody will ever get back to you. The only way to get satisfaction is to go down there, in the middle of a business day, _with_ your receipt and statement and wait there for an hour or so. Most people don't bother; they just pay the copay again on their statement. And management knows that they will. Would I actively try to screw either of these companies? No. If somehow they made a mistake and didn't bill me for something, would I correct them? No, not for something small. Not only is helping a cheater of low priority, I'm not sure they'd even know how to accept the correction through their purposefully tangled bureaucracy. They're not worth the trouble. On the subject of why privileged individuals want something for nothing... In the local paper a few years ago, a local prankster/social commentator tried an experiment. He and a reporter went out to a busy intersection in a very privileged community, and the guy stood there with a sandwich board on that read "I'll give you a dollar." He had a wad of dollar bills in his hand. Car after car whizzed by; obviously this was too weird for most people. But after a while, a new Mercedes pulled up, driven by a slender blonde dressed like money, she stuck her hand out. He gave her the dollar and she drove away without a word. Some people just think the world exists to serve them; they are entitled. They'll shamelessly take advantage of anything they can because, well, it's their right. What's behind this? I dunno; skewed values, maybe a big personal lack. It's not a healthy way to be.

01-23-2005, 10:01 AM	#19 (permalink)
yellowchef Addict Location: Shalimar, FL	Im a poor, hungry, working student, and even I cant see the reason for returning a $.99 spatula to a place that sells them for $1.99 in the hopes of gaining a dollar. Its a pain to go from one store to the other, and its a DOLLAR. I know EVERY DOLLAR COUNTS for me but come on. Its all about the rush, the power trip.. the feeling of one upsmanship. Ill never understand it, I dont understand it all either. Then again I have values and integrity.

01-23-2005, 11:00 AM	#20 (permalink)
Manic_Skafe More Than You Expect Location: Queens	I work in a bookstore and it's disgusting how far people will go when they feel entitled to do so or when they feel like they can get away with doing so. It's against our policy to kick people out because we attempt to create a comfortable but not like a library feel to our stores and there are people who come in on a daily basis from open to close just to start and finish reading books with no intent on paying for them. These are the same people that will damage a book just so that they can demand a discount. Why is it that people don't understand that it took creative minds to get these products into the stores and that when you get something for less than it's worth you insult all the effort that went into creating their book or that deepfryer and you steal from the paychecks of those who work at the store because there's less money going around and less of an oppurtunity for more hours/raises. Of all the things life has taught me I couldn't believe in the idea that nothing is free more firmly than I do now. It might not be in as mystical a manner as you'd expect but when you attempt to get over and harm other people in the process - you'll be forced to pay fhe difference anyway. __________________ "Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

01-24-2005, 06:00 PM	#22 (permalink)
la petite moi Filling the Void. Location: California	My mom is one of these people that likes to work the system. She'll print off a hundred online coupons and spend her days getting 5$ off on different trips to the store, even when the coupon says "one coupon per customer". Also, she will buy something that is expensive that has a very large coupon on it, and then return it to get the full price back- usually she gets 15-20$ from that. The reason she does this is not just to seem clever or swindle the store, necessarily, but because as a child she grew up in an extremely poor family (she once ate dog food because she was so hungry). This has made her obsessed with saving money.