Best Buy changing name to Best Bourgeois. - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Holo · 11-08-2004, 01:45 PM

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Brad Anderson, chief executive officer of Best Buy Co., is embracing a heretical notion for a retailer. He wants to separate the "angels" among his 1.5 million daily customers from the "devils."

Best Buy's angels are customers who boost profits at the consumer-electronics giant by snapping up high-definition televisions, portable electronics, and newly released DVDs without waiting for markdowns or rebates.

The devils are its worst customers. They buy products, apply for rebates, return the purchases, then buy them back at returned-merchandise discounts. They load up on "loss leaders," severely discounted merchandise designed to boost store traffic, then flip the goods at a profit on eBay. They slap down rock-bottom price quotes from Web sites and demand that Best Buy make good on its lowest-price pledge. "They can wreak enormous economic havoc," says Mr. Anderson.

Best Buy estimates that as many as 100 million of its 500 million customer visits each year are undesirable. And the 54-year-old chief executive wants to be rid of these customers.

Mr. Anderson's new approach upends what has long been standard practice for mass merchants. Most chains use their marketing budgets chiefly to maximize customer traffic, in the belief that more visitors will lift revenue and profit. Shunning customers -- unprofitable or not -- is rare and risky.

Mr. Anderson says the new tack is based on a business-school theory that advocates rating customers according to profitability, then dumping the up to 20% that are unprofitable. The financial-services industry has used a variation of that approach for years, lavishing attention on its best customers and penalizing its unprofitable customers with fees for using ATMs or tellers or for obtaining bank records.

Best Buy seems an unlikely candidate for a radical makeover. With $24.5 billion in sales last year, the Richfield, Minn., company is the nation's top seller of consumer electronics. Its big, airy stores and wide inventory have helped it increase market share, even as rivals such as Circuit City Stores Inc. and Sears, Roebuck & Co., have struggled. In the 2004 fiscal year that ended in February, Best Buy reported net income of $570 million, up from $99 million during the year-earlier period marred by an unsuccessful acquisition, but still below the $705 million it earned in fiscal 2002.

But Mr. Anderson spies a hurricane on the horizon. Wal-Mart Stores Inc., the world's largest retailer, and Dell Inc., the largest personal-computer maker, have moved rapidly into high-definition televisions and portable electronics, two of Best Buy's most profitable areas. Today, they rank respectively as the nation's second- and fourth-largest consumer-electronics sellers.
[Best Buy]

Mr. Anderson worries that his two rivals "are larger than us, have a lower [overhead], and are more profitable." In five years, he fears, Best Buy could wind up like Toys 'R' Us Inc., trapped in what consultants call the "unprofitable middle," unable to match Wal-Mart's sheer buying power, while low-cost online sellers like Dell pick off its most affluent customers. Toys 'R' Us recently announced it was considering exiting the toy business.

This year, Best Buy has rolled out its new angel-devil strategy in about 100 of its 670 stores. It is examining sales records and demographic data and sleuthing through computer databases to identify good and bad customers. To lure the high-spenders, it is stocking more merchandise and providing more appealing service. To deter the undesirables, it is cutting back on promotions and sales tactics that tend to draw them, and culling them from marketing lists.

As he prepares to roll out the unconventional strategy throughout the chain, Mr. Anderson faces significant risks. The pilot stores have proven more costly to operate. Because different pilot stores target different types of customers, they threaten to scramble the chain's historic economies of scale. The trickiest challenge may be to deter bad customers without turning off good ones.

"Culturally I want to be very careful," says Mr. Anderson. "The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers."

Mr. Anderson's campaign against devil customers pits Best Buy against an underground of bargain-hungry shoppers intent on wringing every nickel of savings out of big retailers. At dozens of Web sites like FatWallet.com, SlickDeals.net and TechBargains.com, they trade electronic coupons and tips from former clerks and insiders, hoping to gain extra advantages against the stores.

At SlickDeals.net, whose subscribers boast about techniques for gaining hefty discounts, a visitor recently bragged about his practice of shopping at Best Buy only when he thinks he can buy at below the retailer's cost. He claimed to purchase only steeply discounted loss leaders, except when forcing Best Buy to match rock-bottom prices advertised elsewhere. "I started only shopping there if I can [price match] to where they take a loss," he wrote, claiming he was motivated by an unspecified bad experience with the chain. In an e-mail exchange, he declined to identify himself or discuss his tactics, lest his targets be forewarned.

Mr. Anderson's makeover plan began taking shape two years ago when the company retained as a consultant Larry Selden, a professor at Columbia University's Graduate School of Business. Mr. Selden has produced research tying a company's stock-market value to its ability to identify and cater to profitable customers better than its rivals do. At many companies, Mr. Selden argues, losses produced by devil customers wipe out profits generated by angels.

Best Buy's troubled acquisitions of MusicLand Stores Corp. and two other retailers had caused its share price and price-to-earnings ratio to tumble. Mr. Selden recalls advising Mr. Anderson: "The best time to fix something is when you're still making great money but your [price-to-earnings ratio] is going down."

Mr. Selden had never applied his angel-devil theories to a retailer as large as Best Buy, whose executives were skeptical that 20% of customers could be unprofitable. In mid-2002, Mr. Selden outlined his theories during several weekend meetings in Mr. Anderson's Trump Tower apartment. Mr. Anderson was intrigued by Mr. Selden's insistence that a company should view itself as a portfolio of customers, not product lines.

Mr. Anderson put his chief operating officer in charge of a task force to analyze the purchasing histories of several groups of customers, with an eye toward identifying bad customers who purchase loss-leading merchandise and return purchases. The group discovered it could distinguish the angels from the devils, and that 20% of Best Buy's customers accounted for the bulk of profits.

In October 2002, Mr. Anderson instructed the president of Best Buy's U.S. stores, Michael P. Keskey, to develop a plan to realign stores to target distinct groups of customers rather than to push a uniform mix of merchandise. Already deep into a cost-cutting program involving hundreds of employees, Mr. Keskey balked, thinking his boss had fallen for a business-school fad. He recalls telling Mr. Anderson, "You've lost touch with what's happening in your business."

Mr. Anderson was furious, and Mr. Keskey says he wondered whether it was time to leave the company. But after meeting with the chief operating officer and with Mr. Selden, Mr. Keskey realized there was no turning back, he says.

Best Buy concluded that its most desirable customers fell into five distinct groups: upper-income men, suburban mothers, small-business owners, young family men, and technology enthusiasts. Mr. Anderson decided that each store should analyze the demographics of its local market, then focus on two of these groups and stock merchandise accordingly.

Best Buy began working on ways to deter the customers who drove profits down. It couldn't bar them from its stores. But this summer it began taking steps to put a stop to their most damaging practices. It began enforcing a restocking fee of 15% of the purchase price on returned merchandise. To discourage customers who return items with the intention of repurchasing them at an "open-box" discount, it is experimenting with reselling them over the Internet, so the goods don't reappear in the store where they were originally purchased.

"In some cases, we can solve the problem by tightening up procedures so people can't take advantage of the system," explains Mr. Anderson.

In July, Best Buy cut ties to FatWallet.com, an online "affiliate" that had collected referral fees for delivering customers to Best Buy's Web site. At FatWallet.com, shoppers swap details of loss-leading merchandise and rebate strategies. Last October, the site posted Best Buy's secret list of planned Thanksgiving weekend loss leaders, incurring the retailer's ire. Timothy C. Storm, president of Roscoe, Ill.-based FatWallet, said the information may have leaked from someone who had an early look at advertisements scheduled to run the day after Thanksgiving.

In a letter to Mr. Storm, Best Buy explained it was cutting the online link between FatWallet and BestBuy.com because the referrals were unprofitable. The letter said it was terminating all sites that "consistently and historically have put us in a negative business position."

Mr. Storm defends FatWallet.com's posters as savvy shoppers. "Consumers don't set the prices. The merchants have complete control over what their prices and policies are," he says.

Shunning customers can be a delicate business. Two years ago, retailer Filene's Basement was vilified on television and in newspaper columns for asking two Massachusetts customers not to shop at its stores because of what it said were frequent returns and complaints. Earlier this year, Mr. Anderson apologized in writing to students at a Washington, D.C., school after employees at one store barred a group of black students while admitting a group of white students.

Mr. Anderson says the incident in Washington was inappropriate and not a part of any customer culling. He maintains that Best Buy will first try to turn its bad customers into profitable ones by inducing them to buy warranties or more profitable services. "In most cases, customers wouldn't recognize the options we've tried so far," he says.

Store clerks receive hours of training in identifying desirable customers according to their shopping preferences and behavior. High-income men, referred to internally as Barrys, tend to be enthusiasts of action movies and cameras. Suburban moms, called Jills, are busy but usually willing to talk about helping their families. Male technology enthusiasts, nicknamed Buzzes, are early adopters, interested in buying and showing off the latest gadgets.

Staffers use quick interviews to pigeonhole shoppers. A customer who says his family has a regular "movie night," for example, is pegged a prime candidate for home-theater equipment. Shoppers with large families are steered toward larger appliances and time-saving products.

The company hopes to lure the Barrys and Jills by helping them save time with services like a "personal shopper" to help them hunt for unusual items, alert them to sales on preferred items, and coordinate service calls.

Best Buy's decade-old Westminster, Calif., store is one of 100 now using the new approach. It targets upper-income men with an array of pricey home-theater systems, and small-business owners with network servers, which connect office PCs, and technical help unavailable to other customers.

On Tuesdays, when new movie releases hit the shelves, blue-shirted sales clerks prowl the DVD aisles looking for promising candidates. The goal is to steer them into a back room that showcases $12,000 high-definition home-theater systems. Unlike the television sections at most Best Buy stores, the room has easy chairs, a leather couch, and a basket of popcorn to mimic the media rooms popular with home-theater fans.

At stores popular with young Buzzes, Best Buy is setting up videogame areas with leather chairs and game players hooked to mammoth, plasma-screen televisions. The games are conveniently stacked outside the playing area, the glitzy new TVs a short stroll away.

Mr. Anderson says early results indicate that the pilot stores "are clobbering" the conventional stores. Through the quarter ended Aug. 28, sales gains posted by pilot stores were double those of traditional stores. In October, the company began converting another 70 stores.

Best Buy intends to customize the remainder of its stores over the next three years. As it does, it will lose the economies and efficiencies of look-alike stores. With each variation, it could become more difficult to keep the right items in stock, a critical issue in a business where a shortage of a hot-selling big-screen TV can wreak havoc on sales and customer goodwill.

Overhead costs at the pilot stores have run one to two percentage points higher than traditional stores. Sales specialists cost more, as do periodic design changes. Mr. Anderson says the average cost per store should fall as stores share winning ideas for targeting customers.

Now I know some will read this and say "it's their right, they're a business etc., and perhaps you're right on the business front. On the other hand I thought you have promotions and sales and markdowns to generate more and new business and clear your overstock don't you? This line stuck out the most for me;

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"Culturally I want to be very careful," says Mr. Anderson. "The most dangerous image I can think of is a retailer that wants to fire customers."

The fact he uses that terminology tells me that is exactly what he's doing. "Open your wallet or get the fuck out" is the message this sends to me. Of course we can not elect to shop there, but I wanted to hear what others had to say about this concept and how it makes the "have-nots" of the forum feel about being considered a "devil" instead of a paying (albeit under the desired profit margin) customer. The terminology used in the whole article feels very negative and haughty IMO. Just wanted to bounce it off the readers here for their thoughts.

MSD · 11-08-2004, 02:07 PM

Have-not, devil, I don't care what you call it, I call it smart shopping. Capitalism is all about trying to get the best deal for yourself. If it involves screwing the big company that just wants you to open your wallet, it's fine with me. If people do this, however, they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't welcome to come back.

I'd also like to point out that they're stupid if they let people return stuff after a rebate has been sent in. That's why those things require an original proof of purchase.

Cynthetiq · 11-08-2004, 02:14 PM

all one needs is a small percentage of the population and that's enough to stay in business.

Coppertop · 11-08-2004, 02:16 PM

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[customers] slap down rock-bottom price quotes from Web sites and demand that Best Buy make good on its lowest-price pledge. "They can wreak enormous economic havoc," says Mr. Anderson.

If this is such a big deal to them then they shouldn't offer this to customers. I won't sympathise with Best Buy. My experiences in several of their stores have ranged from shitty to average.

Zeraph · 11-08-2004, 03:07 PM

"Best" Buy? I think not.

Halx · 11-08-2004, 03:29 PM

I've learned that you should not buy any electronics from Best Buy. They are marked up $100 more than.. say.. The Good Guys, who are marked up $100 from.. say.. the internet.

kutulu · 11-08-2004, 04:11 PM

As far as I'm concerned Best Buy can fuck the fuck off. Fry's Electronics is always cheaper than them anyways and has twice the selection.

Slavakion · 11-08-2004, 04:34 PM

Hmm... who wants to buy a set of devil horns (at cheap post-Halloween prices!) and walk around BB? It would be great if someone could organize a flash-mob type of thing for that. Imagine 500 "deviled" customers swarming the store...

laconic1 · 11-08-2004, 04:49 PM

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Originally Posted by MrSelfDestruct

Have-not, devil, I don't care what you call it, I call it smart shopping. Capitalism is all about trying to get the best deal for yourself.

Couldn't have said it better myself. I'm probably not in the bottom 20 percent that they talk about, but I'm not far from it, and if they offer me a deal, or make a good deal available I'm going to go for it. If they don't I won't. Capitalism goes both ways with buyers and sellers.

Stiltzkin · 11-08-2004, 06:55 PM

Even though it is on the Wall Street Journal it sounds kinda fake to me, due to the "haughtiness" as Holo said. But assuming that this article is genuine, then FUCK THEM. I'm never stepping into their store EVER again. Good riddance. I hope all thier buildings burn down.

Lockjaw · 11-08-2004, 07:37 PM

I can see both sides of this. On the consumer side obviously enough in this day and age people are trying to extend their dollar and you can't blame them. Not everybody has the money to afford an apartment in Trump Towers of all places. However they ARE a business and businesses in today's America are out to bend you over without lube. Everybody knows this and that's why the confrontational little games between consumer and companies have been getting worse and worse. If they are trying to increase their profits in the face of the king of all cheap discounts(aka Wal-mart) I don't much blame them. Because let's face it if they don't do SOMETHING Wal-mart is going to eat their lunch and the internet is going to eat their supper and dessert. Most true techies don't buy at mass retailers they have their own little favorites be they online or be they stores like Fry's which are cheaper and have tons of everything.

As for me...I don't buy much at Best Buy as it is so I don't think it will matter much to me. I really can't afford the flashy plasma TVs, I don't have a need for any appliances(if I did I'd likely buy at Sears over Best Buy to begin with). I buy my computer hardware online or from Fry's so there isn't a day in hell I'd buy a mobo or video card from a place that has more shelf space dedicated to toner than major computer hardware. Music I usually buy from the used CD stores because frankly I rarely buy stuff the DAY it comes out and the used CD places have the new stuff within a month anyway. Movies eh I'll probably buy from one of their subsidaries like Suncoast. So in the end the only think I would be buying from those folks would be video games and even then they would have some heavy competition from places like Gamestop considering I know the guys at the Gamestop and would trust their word on whether or not a game sucked or not compared to some chuckle head at BestBuy trying to peg me as a Buzz and sell me stuff I didn't come in for.

I think this likely will backfire on them though which is unfortunate but at least they went down swinging.

Stompy · 11-08-2004, 07:54 PM

A fun thing to do is buy an item that has a rebate.

Photocopy the UPC and the receipt, then return the product.

Then fax in your rebate!

Fun times for all!

thingstodo · 11-08-2004, 08:07 PM

It's a war out there. Them vs. us. It is NOT a partnership.
We do whatever we can do and they do whatever they can do. Someone wins and someone loses. If a company really treats me fairly and respectfully, I will be back. When they screw me once I'm history. I'm one of those high-end Barrys. But don't for one minute think I'll ever buy from Acura or Infiniti again. They didn't appreciat eme and treated me like, well.... Lexus , on the other hand, has earned my business twice and is in line for another visit. As long as it's a draw, I'll be back. Of course, I still get my oil changed elsewhere for $22.95 and never buy parts from the vampire service center!

Stiltzkin · 11-08-2004, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lockjaw

I can see both sides of this. On the consumer side obviously enough in this day and age people are trying to extend their dollar and you can't blame them. Not everybody has the money to afford an apartment in Trump Towers of all places. However they ARE a business and businesses in today's America are out to bend you over without lube. Everybody knows this and that's why the confrontational little games between consumer and companies have been getting worse and worse. If they are trying to increase their profits in the face of the king of all cheap discounts(aka Wal-mart) I don't much blame them. Because let's face it if they don't do SOMETHING Wal-mart is going to eat their lunch and the internet is going to eat their supper and dessert. Most true techies don't buy at mass retailers they have their own little favorites be they online or be they stores like Fry's which are cheaper and have tons of everything.

Shitty business principles reveal themselves when better ones emerge. That is to say, Best Buy sucks penis when it comes to buying computer hardware, when compared to it's superior competitors, such as onlinestores like Fry's or (I think) Newegg. The contrast between purchasing quality (availability, pricing, policies, variety) of computer hardware will force Best Buy to stop selling computer hardware, as it will become unprofitable. At least, this is my hope. For this reason, I have no reason to ever step foot inside Best Buy ever again. Stuff they have that I like and sometimes buy:
computer hardware (very rare)
home entertainment appliances (just once)
anime
videogames
For each of these, there are other places to buy stuff for cheaper but the same quality. Anime is cheaper from online stores, hardware cheaper from online stores. Videogames I prefer to buy from Gamestop because two friends of mine from my close circle of friends, including my best friend, work at Gamestop. One of them is a manager. I will always get the straight dope from them when it comes to games.

No more Best Buy for me.

VitaminH · 11-08-2004, 08:54 PM

I think I'm a devil. Pretty much the only thing I buy at Best Buy is DVDs, with maybe one PS2 game a year or so. I'd say at least 85-90% of the DVDs I buy are sale items when they've got 2 for $15 or $20, or 3 for $25 and so on. If I want a new release I'm buying it the first week when its usualyl about $15 before it jumps up to $20. Often I wait out the few months for it to go on sale.

I'm sorry, I am a poor college student on a fixed budget and I can't afford to throw money at you.

I gotta say, I don't like the feeling I am being profiled when I walk in the store, but I suppose I always am, this is just a more structured way of doing it. Personally I don't want attention from sales associates because, and no offense to any BB emplyoees but at the 2 stores I frequent most are out in rural areas, so maybe thats the reason, but lots of the associates don't know what they are talking about, and they talk down to me, when I DO know what I am talking about.

Prime example: my friends girlfriend needed a ethernet hub for her dorm room. Her university said "you need a hub, we reccomend these brands and models:" I knew she needed a hub. I took her to BB to get one. I'd found a good deal for her on the website and she went off to get it while I wandered in the dvds. She came back visibly frustrated and with nothing, told me the guy talked to her like she was an idiot and paid no attention to what she had to say and tried to sell her their most expensive router. I flew over there and demanded to speak to the douche but he was "gone" so I never got the satisfaction of telling him how wrong he was and where he could stick his router. All in a polite manner of course

/end pointless story.

In conclusion, BB can shove their profiling up their ass, I'm still only buying movies on sale, and you know what? I guarentee they're still making money on me and if it's not enough, tough.

xray21 · 11-08-2004, 11:40 PM

best buy is sick wit it

irateplatypus · 11-08-2004, 11:41 PM

i'm so sick of Best Buy. I chose not to shop there a couple years ago and haven't looked back since.

After a while, I just got sick of everything I bought to be either overpriced or have 3 asterisks by the price tag. I fully support anyone taking legal advantage of their rebate systems... power to the devils.

what with techbargains, newegg, amazon and the rest of the finer internet stores getting better at what they do... putting up with Best Buy's run-a-round is getting less and less attractive.

animal909 · 11-09-2004, 01:33 AM

im glad my brother works at best buy because i get to use his discount! its funny, you pay $30 for a headset for your cell phone, and then with my brother's discount it is like $5. Then again, stuff like televisions and vacuum cleaners have little discount. So with DVD's, CD's, and video games.

mattgical · 11-09-2004, 01:56 AM

most items u have to turn in the actual UPC from the box. you cant just make a copy and turn it in. Companies arent that dumb.

Worst Buy sucks. Ever notice how they have only 1 or 2 registers open and there's always a long line.

Ya, change it to WORST BUY instead.

Challenge Walmart? ha! maybe if you're company colors weren't exactly the same as Walmart!!!

K-Wise · 11-09-2004, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kutulu

As far as I'm concerned Best Buy can fuck the fuck off. Fry's Electronics is always cheaper than them anyways and has twice the selection.

Fry's the one with the big horns in the front? Cause if so I've been there. I like getting CD's at best buy. Great selection, not too costly. Probably the best thing to get around here, save for maybe Hastings.

Asta!!

RedbeardUH · 11-09-2004, 04:01 AM

I'm a poor college student with 20k in loan debt. But I fear Wal-Mart more than anything. Wal-Mart is going to destroy the middle class, and this is why. Best Buy employees may not make a whole lot, but the technitians who develop their high end products (flat screen TV, computeres, etc etc) sure make the big bucks. Imagine when Wal-Mart is the only one around for manufacturers to sell their products to. This will force them to lower their price (because Wal Mart won't pay high prices for their goods) and therefor cut into their profit. This will cause them to pay their employees less.

I know this is a tangent of sorts, but there is a correlation between BB's new mantra and the emergence of WalMart.

MikeyChalupa · 11-09-2004, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Imagine when Wal-Mart is the only one around for manufacturers to sell their products to. This will force them to lower their price (because Wal Mart won't pay high prices for their goods) and therefor cut into their profit. This will cause them to pay their employees less.

I wouldn't be too worried, if that ever happened manufacturers would just go online ala Dell and sell directly to the consumer.

Yeah the fax in the rebate thing doesn't work, they want the original UPC cut off the box, as well as the original register receipt, which the store will mark up once the product is returned. I guess I'm a devil too, I routinely take advantage of Best Buy's rebates.

I think Best Buy's name works, as in telling the customer "When you're in our store, you'd BEST BUY."

-Mikey

ARTelevision · 11-09-2004, 04:57 AM

There's a phenomenal amount of anti-business sentiment expressed in this thread. It's surprising there isn't more comprehension regarding what it takes to create and sustain successful business models. Businesses are employers of citizens and contributors to the wealth of communities.

avhg1 · 11-09-2004, 06:54 AM

I don't think they are taking the right approach, but I'm not a huge corporation. I think that they are fat and gready at this point and you can only get so fat and greedy before you start to fall.

I don't shop there anymore, because most stuff I can get at better prices elsewhere. I think they need to focus more on streamlining the company than getting rid of customers. I'll go to the store all the time to buy something on sale and buy other things that I want not on sale.

braisler · 11-09-2004, 07:02 AM

I think that many of the people posting in this thread are mis-classifying themselves as "devils". Taking advantage of a sale on CDs or legally using a rebate does not, by itself, class you as a devil. The "devil" is a customer who buys multiple items as loss-leaders only to resell them on Ebay, or someone who buys a rebated item, returns it after submitting the rebate, and then attempts to re-buy the item after it is marked down as "opened" I really don't swallow the idea that 20% of Best Buys customers are doing this. Mainly because the average bargain shopper doesn't have the time to run around buying, snipping, mailing, rebating, returning, rebuying... for what? Maybe $10 here, $50 there. I think that what Best Buy is not saying directly is that it is considering a move towards higher-end sales driving most of their business. This might mean cutting out price-matching all together or reducing the number of loss-leaders advertised or changing the profile of merchandise that they stock in store.

Personally, I think that this is a bad move for their business. If you alienate your customers at one point in your business cycle, you are not likely to EVER get them back. A bargain shopper who is currently in college and only buys CDs on sale or shops around for a rebate on a video card or office chair, will eventually graduate and get a family and a better job. If he/she has a positive history with BB, then they will be much more likely to consider that same store when they have the money and the "need" for new appliances or a plasma screen TV. Shoppers circumstances change over time. If it were my company to run, I would think long and hard about "firing" any of my customers.

Stompy · 11-09-2004, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mattgical

most items u have to turn in the actual UPC from the box. you cant just make a copy and turn it in. Companies arent that dumb.

Worst Buy sucks. Ever notice how they have only 1 or 2 registers open and there's always a long line.

Ya, change it to WORST BUY instead.

Challenge Walmart? ha! maybe if you're company colors weren't exactly the same as Walmart!!!

Haha, yes, they are very dumb. Trust me, they'll let you fax in your rebate, I've done it before

One time I misread the receipt and it said "rebates must be sent in within 7 days of purchase" even though the rebate offer expired 6 months down the line. So I called them to inquire about the rebate I never sent in. Naturally they reply with, "Sorry, we can't find you in the system." So I put on a fake, "Goddamn it.. I sent it in. I have a copy of everything I sent in, is it okay if I fax it to you?" They said yes.

It works pretty much with anything - I honestly haven't heard of it failing yet.

The funny thing is, there's no way they can actually determine whether or not you really did buy the item unless they put in some kind of order # tracking system (which they don't have).

I did it just a few times to see if it'd work, it's not like I base my life off of scamming rebate offers or anything.

Not only that, but the people at the registers are dumb too. You can buy a new wireless G router and place a wireless B router in it's place and return it. They don't even check it. Of course, buy it with cash so they can't really do anything IF they found out - but they ARE that dumb.

Anyway, I think those are flatout fraud

But what Best Buy is talking about is what the poster above me described - except there's nothing wrong with that. Buy low, sell high. It's called smart shopping

It's all legal, you're just taking advantage of the loopholes... as if Best Buy (as a corporation) doesn't take advantage of any loopholes in other systems (tax?).

Cynthetiq · 11-09-2004, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Haha, yes, they are very dumb. Trust me, they'll let you fax in your rebate, I've done it before

One time I misread the receipt and it said "rebates must be sent in within 7 days of purchase" even though the rebate offer expired 6 months down the line. So I called them to inquire about the rebate I never sent in. Naturally they reply with, "Sorry, we can't find you in the system." So I put on a fake, "Goddamn it.. I sent it in. I have a copy of everything I sent in, is it okay if I fax it to you?" They said yes.

It works pretty much with anything - I honestly haven't heard of it failing yet.

The funny thing is, there's no way they can actually determine whether or not you really did buy the item unless they put in some kind of order # tracking system (which they don't have).

I did it just a few times to see if it'd work, it's not like I base my life off of scamming rebate offers or anything.

Not only that, but the people at the registers are dumb too. You can buy a new wireless G router and place a wireless B router in it's place and return it. They don't even check it. Of course, buy it with cash so they can't really do anything IF they found out - but they ARE that dumb.

Anyway, I think those are flatout fraud

But what Best Buy is talking about is what the poster above me described - except there's nothing wrong with that. Buy low, sell high. It's called smart shopping

It's all legal, you're just taking advantage of the loopholes... as if Best Buy (as a corporation) doesn't take advantage of any loopholes in other systems (tax?).

wow an amazing example... you are the exact reason why they are trying to tighten up the loopholes and cater to their more profitable customers.

Stompy · 11-09-2004, 09:11 AM

Hehe, let em! They're the ones getting all the bad publicity

People don't like shopping at places that treat their customers like sheep!

Actually, I have a reason for it, and that's because they've screwed me outta money in the past (long story). Everything I've ripped em off for so far is what they actually owe me, so it's all good so far!

Halx · 11-09-2004, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ARTelevision

There's a phenomenal amount of anti-business sentiment expressed in this thread. It's surprising there isn't more comprehension regarding what it takes to create and sustain successful business models. Businesses are employers of citizens and contributors to the wealth of communities.

Smart people resent dishonesty. Best Buy is an example of a corporation that represents greed (overcharging, bad service, biased advice). If this thread were about Wal Mart, then there would be similar resentment, mostly because of the cliche that when they open a store, all the family businesses in the area tend to go out of business. How is that contributing to the community?

ARTelevision · 11-09-2004, 10:23 AM

I don't see the Wal-Mart effect - and I haven't seen it in my entire lifetime. I think it's a myth. What I have seen happen to small cities and towns is that they "died" a very long time before Wal-Mart. They "died" as a result of suburbanization and mall-ification. These happened long before Wal-Mart, et. al. appeared on the scene.

IMO, what these mega-stores do mostly is employ citizens, add quite a lot to the local tax base, and extend product and service availability.

Cynthetiq · 11-09-2004, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

Smart people resent dishonesty. Best Buy is an example of a corporation that represents greed (overcharging, bad service, biased advice). If this thread were about Wal Mart, then there would be similar resentment, mostly because of the cliche that when they open a store, all the family businesses in the area tend to go out of business. How is that contributing to the community?

a simple model

all the employees including the mom and pop of the mom and pop stores don't employ as many people who make incomes and pay income tax. They in turn spend their incomes on consumables and pay sales tax and indirect taxes.

large stores generate and pay more taxes than the mom and pop stores.

Slavakion · 11-09-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stompy

Haha, yes, they are very dumb. Trust me, they'll let you fax in your rebate, I've done it before

Check this out... I got a computer from them about 3 months ago. I ordered it online and chose the option of picking it up at the store. Went and got it, the guy told me that everything was all set.

Got an email the next day -- You still haven't picked up your order. If you haven't picked it up by xxdate it will be returned. Kay...

I called them a couple of times, but nothing got done. Over the next week I got similar emails, right up to the one that told me my order was being shipped back to central. Guess what? I got a full refund. But the best is yet to come...

I filled out the rebates, snipped/copied my UPCs, sent them in. About a month later, what came in the mail? The rebates! Best Buy paid me $300 for my computer!

Coppertop · 11-09-2004, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slavakion

Check this out... I got a computer from them about 3 months ago. I ordered it online and chose the option of picking it up at the store. Went and got it, the guy told me that everything was all set.

Got an email the next day -- You still haven't picked up your order. If you haven't picked it up by xxdate it will be returned. Kay...

I called them a couple of times, but nothing got done. Over the next week I got similar emails, right up to the one that told me my order was being shipped back to central. Guess what? I got a full refund. But the best is yet to come...

I filled out the rebates, snipped/copied my UPCs, sent them in. About a month later, what came in the mail? The rebates! Best Buy paid me $300 for my computer!

Awesome. Serves them right for their inability to take care of your situation.

Xell101 · 11-09-2004, 02:59 PM

It's a business. They are out to make money and their business practices have attracted many unprofitable customers and now they are trying to cull the hear for the sake of profitability. Suprise suprise suprise.

On a side note, there will be crappy locations for any store. As an example of a good location, my local best buy. Nothing gets by them, it is also my favorite store simply becuase the bulk of the merchandise is reasonably priced and I can find DVDs or CDs that I can't find anywhere else. It is good, unlike my local Circuit City which needs to be fired bombed, whereas the one near my aunt and uncle deserves a sticker.

World's King · 11-09-2004, 03:04 PM

I don't wanna read all that.

Fuck Best Buy.

raeanna74 · 11-10-2004, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Halx

I've learned that you should not buy any electronics from Best Buy. They are marked up $100 more than.. say.. The Good Guys, who are marked up $100 from.. say.. the internet.

Except for computer systems. They are frequently marked at the store's wholesale price or barely more. My brother and hubby both worked at Best Buy. With their discounts they would have actually ended up paying more for a computer system than it was priced for the retail consumer. Their discounts were Wholesale plus 5%(I think). The area where Best Buy marks up the most is the cables, wires, adapters, and smaller addons for the computers and electronics.

The mindset behind this grates me because I am one of those "Bargain Hunters". I do find it irritating that people would buy, return, then buy the open box items. Selling those on the internet is a good plan for the stores to discourage that kind of buying. I personally don't like that Best Buy would want to get rid of ALL bargain hunters because some of them play the game a little unfairly. This may hurt them more than they realize. One thing that does draw me to the store is the fact that no matter what store I walk into I know where to go to find items. That is an advantage for angels and devils alike. I don't think they need to make such drastic changes. Just eliminate the ability to cheat the store.

11-08-2004, 02:14 PM	#3 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	all one needs is a small percentage of the population and that's enough to stay in business. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

11-08-2004, 03:29 PM	#6 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	I've learned that you should not buy any electronics from Best Buy. They are marked up $100 more than.. say.. The Good Guys, who are marked up $100 from.. say.. the internet. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

11-08-2004, 06:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
Stiltzkin Junkie	Even though it is on the Wall Street Journal it sounds kinda fake to me, due to the "haughtiness" as Holo said. But assuming that this article is genuine, then FUCK THEM. I'm never stepping into their store EVER again. Good riddance. I hope all thier buildings burn down. __________________ The most important thing in this world is love.

11-08-2004, 07:54 PM	#12 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	A fun thing to do is buy an item that has a rebate. Photocopy the UPC and the receipt, then return the product. Then fax in your rebate! Fun times for all! __________________ I love lamp.

11-08-2004, 08:07 PM	#13 (permalink)
thingstodo A Storm Is Coming Location: The Great White North	It's a war out there. Them vs. us. It is NOT a partnership. We do whatever we can do and they do whatever they can do. Someone wins and someone loses. If a company really treats me fairly and respectfully, I will be back. When they screw me once I'm history. I'm one of those high-end Barrys. But don't for one minute think I'll ever buy from Acura or Infiniti again. They didn't appreciat eme and treated me like, well.... Lexus , on the other hand, has earned my business twice and is in line for another visit. As long as it's a draw, I'll be back. Of course, I still get my oil changed elsewhere for $22.95 and never buy parts from the vampire service center! __________________ If you're wringing your hands you can't roll up your shirt sleeves. Stangers have the best candy.

11-08-2004, 02:07 PM	#2 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	Have-not, devil, I don't care what you call it, I call it smart shopping. Capitalism is all about trying to get the best deal for yourself. If it involves screwing the big company that just wants you to open your wallet, it's fine with me. If people do this, however, they shouldn't be surprised if they aren't welcome to come back. I'd also like to point out that they're stupid if they let people return stuff after a rebate has been sent in. That's why those things require an original proof of purchase.

11-08-2004, 03:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
Zeraph Banned Location: The Cosmos	"Best" Buy? I think not.

11-08-2004, 04:11 PM	#7 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	As far as I'm concerned Best Buy can fuck the fuck off. Fry's Electronics is always cheaper than them anyways and has twice the selection.

11-08-2004, 04:34 PM	#8 (permalink)
Slavakion Mjollnir Incarnate Location: Lost in thought	Hmm... who wants to buy a set of devil horns (at cheap post-Halloween prices!) and walk around BB? It would be great if someone could organize a flash-mob type of thing for that. Imagine 500 "deviled" customers swarming the store...

11-08-2004, 07:37 PM	#11 (permalink)
Lockjaw Junkie	I can see both sides of this. On the consumer side obviously enough in this day and age people are trying to extend their dollar and you can't blame them. Not everybody has the money to afford an apartment in Trump Towers of all places. However they ARE a business and businesses in today's America are out to bend you over without lube. Everybody knows this and that's why the confrontational little games between consumer and companies have been getting worse and worse. If they are trying to increase their profits in the face of the king of all cheap discounts(aka Wal-mart) I don't much blame them. Because let's face it if they don't do SOMETHING Wal-mart is going to eat their lunch and the internet is going to eat their supper and dessert. Most true techies don't buy at mass retailers they have their own little favorites be they online or be they stores like Fry's which are cheaper and have tons of everything. As for me...I don't buy much at Best Buy as it is so I don't think it will matter much to me. I really can't afford the flashy plasma TVs, I don't have a need for any appliances(if I did I'd likely buy at Sears over Best Buy to begin with). I buy my computer hardware online or from Fry's so there isn't a day in hell I'd buy a mobo or video card from a place that has more shelf space dedicated to toner than major computer hardware. Music I usually buy from the used CD stores because frankly I rarely buy stuff the DAY it comes out and the used CD places have the new stuff within a month anyway. Movies eh I'll probably buy from one of their subsidaries like Suncoast. So in the end the only think I would be buying from those folks would be video games and even then they would have some heavy competition from places like Gamestop considering I know the guys at the Gamestop and would trust their word on whether or not a game sucked or not compared to some chuckle head at BestBuy trying to peg me as a Buzz and sell me stuff I didn't come in for. I think this likely will backfire on them though which is unfortunate but at least they went down swinging.

11-08-2004, 08:54 PM	#15 (permalink)
VitaminH An embarrassment to myself and those around me... Location: Pants	I think I'm a devil. Pretty much the only thing I buy at Best Buy is DVDs, with maybe one PS2 game a year or so. I'd say at least 85-90% of the DVDs I buy are sale items when they've got 2 for $15 or $20, or 3 for $25 and so on. If I want a new release I'm buying it the first week when its usualyl about $15 before it jumps up to $20. Often I wait out the few months for it to go on sale. I'm sorry, I am a poor college student on a fixed budget and I can't afford to throw money at you. I gotta say, I don't like the feeling I am being profiled when I walk in the store, but I suppose I always am, this is just a more structured way of doing it. Personally I don't want attention from sales associates because, and no offense to any BB emplyoees but at the 2 stores I frequent most are out in rural areas, so maybe thats the reason, but lots of the associates don't know what they are talking about, and they talk down to me, when I DO know what I am talking about. Prime example: my friends girlfriend needed a ethernet hub for her dorm room. Her university said "you need a hub, we reccomend these brands and models:" I knew she needed a hub. I took her to BB to get one. I'd found a good deal for her on the website and she went off to get it while I wandered in the dvds. She came back visibly frustrated and with nothing, told me the guy talked to her like she was an idiot and paid no attention to what she had to say and tried to sell her their most expensive router. I flew over there and demanded to speak to the douche but he was "gone" so I never got the satisfaction of telling him how wrong he was and where he could stick his router. All in a polite manner of course /end pointless story. In conclusion, BB can shove their profiling up their ass, I'm still only buying movies on sale, and you know what? I guarentee they're still making money on me and if it's not enough, tough. __________________ "Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte

11-08-2004, 11:40 PM	#16 (permalink)
xray21 Tilted Location: Oregon	best buy best buy is sick wit it __________________ Blessed By Pain

11-08-2004, 11:41 PM	#17 (permalink)
irateplatypus can't help but laugh Location: dar al-harb	i'm so sick of Best Buy. I chose not to shop there a couple years ago and haven't looked back since. After a while, I just got sick of everything I bought to be either overpriced or have 3 asterisks by the price tag. I fully support anyone taking legal advantage of their rebate systems... power to the devils. what with techbargains, newegg, amazon and the rest of the finer internet stores getting better at what they do... putting up with Best Buy's run-a-round is getting less and less attractive. __________________ If you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly, you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance for survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves. ~ Winston Churchill

11-09-2004, 01:33 AM	#18 (permalink)
animal909 Crazy	im glad my brother works at best buy because i get to use his discount! its funny, you pay $30 for a headset for your cell phone, and then with my brother's discount it is like $5. Then again, stuff like televisions and vacuum cleaners have little discount. So with DVD's, CD's, and video games.

11-09-2004, 01:56 AM	#19 (permalink)
mattgical Upright	most items u have to turn in the actual UPC from the box. you cant just make a copy and turn it in. Companies arent that dumb. Worst Buy sucks. Ever notice how they have only 1 or 2 registers open and there's always a long line. Ya, change it to WORST BUY instead. Challenge Walmart? ha! maybe if you're company colors weren't exactly the same as Walmart!!!

11-09-2004, 04:01 AM	#21 (permalink)
RedbeardUH Upright	I'm a poor college student with 20k in loan debt. But I fear Wal-Mart more than anything. Wal-Mart is going to destroy the middle class, and this is why. Best Buy employees may not make a whole lot, but the technitians who develop their high end products (flat screen TV, computeres, etc etc) sure make the big bucks. Imagine when Wal-Mart is the only one around for manufacturers to sell their products to. This will force them to lower their price (because Wal Mart won't pay high prices for their goods) and therefor cut into their profit. This will cause them to pay their employees less. I know this is a tangent of sorts, but there is a correlation between BB's new mantra and the emergence of WalMart. __________________ He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you -Friedrich Nietzsche

11-09-2004, 04:57 AM	#23 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	There's a phenomenal amount of anti-business sentiment expressed in this thread. It's surprising there isn't more comprehension regarding what it takes to create and sustain successful business models. Businesses are employers of citizens and contributors to the wealth of communities. __________________ create evolution

11-09-2004, 06:54 AM	#24 (permalink)
avhg1 Insane Location: MD	I don't think they are taking the right approach, but I'm not a huge corporation. I think that they are fat and gready at this point and you can only get so fat and greedy before you start to fall. I don't shop there anymore, because most stuff I can get at better prices elsewhere. I think they need to focus more on streamlining the company than getting rid of customers. I'll go to the store all the time to buy something on sale and buy other things that I want not on sale. __________________ I shake the devil's hand daily... I'd do it hourly, but my hand gets tired.

11-09-2004, 07:02 AM	#25 (permalink)
braisler Addict Location: Midway, KY	I think that many of the people posting in this thread are mis-classifying themselves as "devils". Taking advantage of a sale on CDs or legally using a rebate does not, by itself, class you as a devil. The "devil" is a customer who buys multiple items as loss-leaders only to resell them on Ebay, or someone who buys a rebated item, returns it after submitting the rebate, and then attempts to re-buy the item after it is marked down as "opened" I really don't swallow the idea that 20% of Best Buys customers are doing this. Mainly because the average bargain shopper doesn't have the time to run around buying, snipping, mailing, rebating, returning, rebuying... for what? Maybe $10 here, $50 there. I think that what Best Buy is not saying directly is that it is considering a move towards higher-end sales driving most of their business. This might mean cutting out price-matching all together or reducing the number of loss-leaders advertised or changing the profile of merchandise that they stock in store. Personally, I think that this is a bad move for their business. If you alienate your customers at one point in your business cycle, you are not likely to EVER get them back. A bargain shopper who is currently in college and only buys CDs on sale or shops around for a rebate on a video card or office chair, will eventually graduate and get a family and a better job. If he/she has a positive history with BB, then they will be much more likely to consider that same store when they have the money and the "need" for new appliances or a plasma screen TV. Shoppers circumstances change over time. If it were my company to run, I would think long and hard about "firing" any of my customers.

11-09-2004, 09:11 AM	#28 (permalink)
Stompy Banned from being Banned Location: Donkey	Hehe, let em! They're the ones getting all the bad publicity People don't like shopping at places that treat their customers like sheep! Actually, I have a reason for it, and that's because they've screwed me outta money in the past (long story). Everything I've ripped em off for so far is what they actually owe me, so it's all good so far! __________________ I love lamp.

11-09-2004, 10:23 AM	#30 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	I don't see the Wal-Mart effect - and I haven't seen it in my entire lifetime. I think it's a myth. What I have seen happen to small cities and towns is that they "died" a very long time before Wal-Mart. They "died" as a result of suburbanization and mall-ification. These happened long before Wal-Mart, et. al. appeared on the scene. IMO, what these mega-stores do mostly is employ citizens, add quite a lot to the local tax base, and extend product and service availability. __________________ create evolution

11-09-2004, 02:59 PM	#34 (permalink)
Xell101 Junkie	It's a business. They are out to make money and their business practices have attracted many unprofitable customers and now they are trying to cull the hear for the sake of profitability. Suprise suprise suprise. On a side note, there will be crappy locations for any store. As an example of a good location, my local best buy. Nothing gets by them, it is also my favorite store simply becuase the bulk of the merchandise is reasonably priced and I can find DVDs or CDs that I can't find anywhere else. It is good, unlike my local Circuit City which needs to be fired bombed, whereas the one near my aunt and uncle deserves a sticker.

11-09-2004, 03:04 PM	#35 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	I don't wanna read all that. Fuck Best Buy. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown