thefictionweliv

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...ring_student_2

Has censorship gone this far? To spend valuable tax dollars to jail someone for 30 fucking days over a four letter word is a sad state in our society.

inharmony

Unless there's more to this story, this is wrong.

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Glory's Sun

it's acutally quite legal.. me and SM70 have been going round and round about this one for quite some time now.. they have the legal right to do this. I think it's a bit extreme but obsenity is not protected under the first ammendment.

First Ammendment Rules and Exceptions

inharmony

Agree totally....make the punishment fit the crime.

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"You can't shake hands with a clenched fist."
Ghandi

"Things do not change: We change"
Henry David Thoreau

maleficent

Maybe in this young man's case, this punishment is what he needs. He apparently has no regard at all for consequences. he's got disciplinary problems that his parents don't seem to be able to correct. Is tossing his butt in jail the answer? Who knows, but detention doesn't seem to do any good.

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Bill O'Rights

He could get 30 days. That doesn't mean that he's going to. I'd say that this is more of a "wake up call", than it is anything else. My guess is...hell, it isn't even my guess. The kid admits that he's been a discipliary problem in the past. Obviously the traditional methods of behavioral modification have failed. Extreme? Maybe. But it sure as hell got his attention, didn't it?

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Irishsean

30 days in the lockup might seem like a lot to a kid at that age, but its nothing. Look at the kids who wind up where I work. Minimum time in program is 10 months, and we've had kids stay for 3 years. If you can't control yourself thats where you need to end up.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

thefictionweliv

The main problem with obcenity is its relative, fuck bitch, ect. in my view are on the same level as ya'll, cool, bad, their definitions are listed as slang in the dictionary and not as curse. From the exceptions, if someone was extremely offended from being called a loser it would be obscene. Should everyone live in fear of the whim of an individual judge to decide what the line is.
Music on the radio and TV is censored to oblivion, yet we learn about midevil orgies and mass suicides through literature in high school. When the government deciding what art is acceptable an extreme violation of the first amendment in my opinion.

lukethebandgeek

As far as I can tell, the offensive language was used in an offensive manner. As a future teacher, I can agree that discipline is a huge factor in this country's education system. I think though, a teacher has most of the responsibility to make himself or herself a person who students will follow. I think that If other methods of discipline have been tried, give the kid some jail time to think about where he's going in life. When he gets fired from work for showing up late and cursing out a boss, who's to blame, him, or the disciplinary system that raised him?

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Irishsean

If you notice tho, it doesn't say obscenity, it says language meant to provoke violence, so the kid was probably in the guys face doing it.

Here's a little story for ya. At work one night we were having a problem with a kid being loud and violent, so we took him to the time-out room. We had 3 staff in there, we always have more staff than really needed back there, not to keep us from getting hurt, but to protect the kid. This day the kid in question decided to really try to get someone to hit him as he started getting in faces and screaming about how when he got out he would come back and rape and kill the other two guys daughters who at the time were 2-4 years old, and how he was gonna rape and mutilate their wives, etc. You know how hard it was not to just flatten that kid?

Kids seem to know that they can do whatever they want to adults and the adults can't respond unless they want jail time. They need to learn its not acceptable before they reach the age of 18 and try it again.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

maleficent

The attitude of the parents -- from what little I can see in the article kinda steams me a little. This young man, it doesn't seem, has ever been taught consequences, and are a little too quick to bail him out of trouble. He's 17, almost an adult. he's old enough to know better, and old enough to know how to be a responsible human being. Mom and Dad don't seem to be doing anything to fix junior's admitted discipline problem. You'd think they would try any means necessary to get this young man in line.

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thefictionweliv

I understand if it was violence provoking, but during highschool I called one of my teachers a bitch, I had never done a thing wrong, they didn't have a disiplinary file on me and she was pulling out the guns wanting to have me arrested and pressed charges. When I called her a bitch at the time she was quite being one.

Glory's Sun

being offended doesn't violate the right..you can offend all you want. What you can't do is actually harm with words or attempt to cause harm with words. It sounds like as already mentioned that he was inciting violence which is clearly not protected under the first ammendment and is clearly not a violation. Secret will be sure to add to this.. as he's said many times; A person has a *responsibility* to to use the right in the correct mannor. If the right is abused or it is held irresponsibly then guess what..you can't claim it for protection. It's that simple

ShaniFaye

Im sorry but my momma and daddy taught me to respect persons in an authority situation...Teachers fall into this category...they told me I could say all the mean things I wanted "in my head" but if they ever HEARD me talk to someone like that...I wouldnt have to worry about punishment from anyone else cause there wouldnt be enuff left of me when they got done to bother with lol

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gyroscope

but if he uses bad language,he should get some extra work,but i don't think putting him in jai is a good solution.it only makes it worse!

bigoldalphamale

i'm not that old...but i remember the days back in high school (late 80's early 90) when you could get into a fist fight in the halls and get detention...or if someone REALLY got hurt...you could get 'whiteroom'. multiple offenses of fighting eventually warranted a one or two day suspension.

smoking/dipping in the boys room...punishable by harsh language, detention at worst.

drinking on school grounds, or coming to school with alcohol on the breath...they'd send you home, care of your parents, and slap you with white room or saturday school.

foul language...pretty much overlooked...unless directed at a teacher/administrator, then you probably would get detention and/or white room.

i am SO glad i got out of high school when i did. public high schools are prison camps for learning. its really unbelieavable what goes on there now.

thefictionweliv

Every year I was in high school for about the first month the gym was used as a in school suspension hall because half the population of the school was thrown in for uniform violations. Yes they are very much prison camps.

ShaniFaye

thats why I homeschool...if my student uses foul language I can just beat her ha ha (Im kidding--that offense calls for SOAP)

has anyone noticed Im sounding extremely hyper today?

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I want the diabetic plan that comes with rollover carbs. I dont like the unused one expiring at midnite!!

Stompy

People REALLY need to get over it. They are words. If you let words bother you, you are an idiot. End of story.

If the teacher is REALLY upset by the words to the point where he/she wants to jail a student, then they have some problems of their own to work out and don't really seem fit for teaching. He/she was probably being a cunt and deserved it.

Swear words are only swear words because your parents say they are. If we didn't tell our kids that they were bad, a generation later, it wouldn't be a problem. That's how ridiculous it is. F-U-C-K. Fuck. Shit. Cum, piss, Barbara Streisand. All words - nothing more.

...putting someone in jail for swearing? Hah. All that's going to do is waste the kid's time. They won't stop swearing. In fact, they will grow massive amounts of anger and hatred for authority, and rightfully so because it's goddamn ridiculous.

I can't believe people actually responded to this thread thinking that punishment is okay...

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Glory's Sun

swear words aren't the problem here.. the problem is he was using violence to provoke or incite violence. There's a big difference. Add that to the fact that he seems to already have a distaste for authority then I don't see what the big deal is. I would rather see him do community service rather than jail time but like BOR said... he could *possibly* go to jail. It isn't a set in stone thing.

Stompy

"Language meant to provoke violence".

Right. Schools pull this shit all the time. If you got upset and raised your voice, they're the type of place to claim you just assaulted them even though you didn't say anythign remotely threatening.

I call BS.

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Glory's Sun

It's a disorderly conduct violation. the kid probably has never been in jail before so it's doubtful he'll see any jail time. he'll probably get 24 hrs community service and be done with it. that should hardly constitute a resentment for authority.

Stompy

I can see how, especially if they're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Just because they gave him a citation for using language to "provoke violence" doesn't mean he did. It's kinda like when a cop pulls you over for no reason at all whatsoever and ends up giving you a ticket for 5 over.

If he was late for class and he got in trouble and said, "fuck off", that deserves a suspension at best. I really have a hard time believing he tried to "provoke violence" for being late to class

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Glory's Sun

I agree that it is hard to believe he would provoke violence for being late to class.. however it was also stated that this wasn't his first time being late and let's face it high schools are alot different in alot of ways.. not just the fact that it is more strict but the kids are alot different.

water_boy1999

Any particular reason you are in such high spirits? *wink wink nudge nudge*


It is not just the fact that they are using such foul language. It is the fact that kids these days are disruptive to the learning process. They put the teachers under a tremendous amount of stress because the lack of disciplinary action allowed on unruly students. Instead of backing the kids and saying they have a right to say whatever they want without punishment, why can't we protect our teachers and get back to disciplining the little fucktards. Kids are smart enough to know they can take advantage of the system and some will just to spite the educational system. I think it is rather sad. I will never send my kids to a public school. When have kids that is....

I think 30 days is a little harsh, but I do think jail time would make this kid wisen up a bit and realize authority is not there to hurt him, but to help him.

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kutulu

Putting him in jail because of some naughty language is asinine. This is just another type of power play that schools are pulling on students these days. I can't believe people are buying into this crap.

Irishsean

If he's in there swearing at the teacher, is the teacher able to teach the kids that are there to learn? Probly not. If he's disrupting the learning process of the other kids, boot him out of school. I think they probly did the right thing, and hope he does spend some time in jail. The guy is 17, if he hasn't learned self control by now, maybe this will teach him something.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
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joeb1

No accountability... Who holds him accountable for his actions? Certainly not his parents. Maybe jail would be good for him? A 17 year old should have the disipline to hold his tongue. This kid should know better than to use profanity in the class room.

There are consequences to his actions. He has had problems in the past. Where does the education system draw the line? He obviously has some issues. Kids should be at school to learn. This kid is preventing that. Do we just continue to allow students to run the schools. They really have taken too much power from the educators. I remember when I was in school. That paddle hurt! It taught me some things also...

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Stompy

Man, you have to have some problems if you think you should give a kid who acts up in school JAIL TIME Why would his parents hold him accountable? If I swore at 17, that had nothing to do with my parents. It's not like the parents sit at a magical control panel and control the every action of their kids. They are thinking human beings who are capable of acting on their own.

All older people are the same... "I was beaten with a paddle in school and THAT did the trick." Mkay, so we should put kids in jail now when they act up? I mean, you can't even really begin to justify giving someone jail time for something silly like this.

The article simply stated, "...who gave him a citation for using language meant to provoke violence" If someone was quoted as saying, "Yeah, he was advancing toward the teacher like he was going to hit her," then that's one thing. But that's all the article said. We all know damn well school adminitrators tend to stretch the truth (especially with those old enough who have kids in middle/high school).

It's silly when people form these types of lynch-mob of sorts. Oooh a teenager did something bad, throw the book at him! Remember you were there once.

And god forbid we actually question the actions of the teacher. Was she being an ass? Maybe she deserved to get swore at. She might be the teacher, but I've always lived by the rule "disrespect me, expect to get disrespected right back." If that meant talking back or swearing at a teacher if they were being an ass to me for not apparent reason, so be it.

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Glory's Sun

I'm 24, so I'm not an older person wanting to throw the book at the kid. I'm simply saying that the school has the legal right to press the charges and quite simply unless the kid has a hell of a defense lawyer then he'll get something.

I also think that the kid is responsible for his own actions..and there is probably alot more to this story than what is being reported. There always is.

Mango

Perfect use of the criminal justice system. Send them to prison so they can learn how to be a real badass.

MageB420666

Ok, here is my .2 cents.

All language, including curse words, however foul or obscene, should be protected by the First Amendment, when I was in high school I should have been able to say whatever I wanted. This is not to say that I should be able to call someone whatever I wanted, that is verbal assault, and should not be protected, but if I want to say fuck, bitch, etc; in everyday conversation, not neccesarilly referring to anyone, then I should be able to. I remember I had my shirt taken up because it said "My parents said I could be anything, so I became an asshole". The teacher made me take off the shirt(I had another one on underneath it) and sent it to the principle in my opinion that is just not right. If a kid wants to curse during a normal conversation, legally they should be allowed, but verbally assaulting someone should not be allowed

So if the kid verbally assaulted the teacher or threatened the teacher with bodily harm, then I say they have every right to punish him through charges. But if he just said something like "I don't give a flying fuck", then charges are way out of line.

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Slavakion

A bit OT, but you know how now most schools won't let you wear shirts that say 420? A few weeks ago I saw a shirt with 420 in hex

I think that kids should be able to say whatever they want as long as it's not directed at a teacher. That's pretty much how my schools have been. If you want to use fuck as every other word in a sentence, then teachers would just say something like "language..." or "watch it."

...Just teach us the Newspeak now, BB.

thefictionweliv

I read above about teachers deserving respect. I had many teachers in high school that deserved no respect at all. I even had one that left after the first 10 minutes of our 90 minute class daily. I mean fuck not like I actually wanted to learn a damn thing.

Glory's Sun

you can say what you want.. you can curse all you want..that isn't the point here.. the point is the incitement to violence..

Irishsean

Stompy, he's not a kid anymore, he's 17. If he murdered someone, he'd do time as an adult. Better to show him theres consequences for actions now rather than him learn later.

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There are no absolute rules of conduct, either in peace or war. Everything depends on circumstances.
Leon Trotsky

joeb1

You are right... I do have a problem. I consider it disrespect. And I hope that I would have taught my children better than this by the time they are 17. And this was not just a kid that "acted up" in school. The kid had disipline problems in the past. At least that is what I got from the article.(how do we know he has not beat the crap out of people in the past?)

We can not really tell the tone of the kids voice, or the manner in which it was said. Was he in the teachers face with fist clenched? Don't know... Don't care. We can argue the fact until we are blue in the face. It does not change what you beleive. And it will not change what I believe, or how I was raised.

I was always taught there were limitations. You could not cuss in my school. This was something that was never heard. Hell, I think I even got suspended for writing a bunch of profanity on paper. Cussing... I can look past this. After all it is just a four letter word. But it was not my classroom. It was not my school. What are the "rules" of this class and school? Do they have a strict profanity policy? Don't know? They make the rules. They have the power. This kid broke the rules.

Do you think that the teacher just said, " hell with it.. I don't like the way little timmy spoke to me today... hmmm what can I do... hey! Let's send him to jail! Yeah that will teach him!"

Yeah right...sure that's the way it went down. Use some common sense. Somebody felt threatened. (Possibly the teacher, who is in a position of AUTHORITY)

Maybe both teacher and student should be reviewed after actions like this?

But really.. were is the line drawn. Where are the boundries? Are kids allowed to just act like a-holes. Then they are no more intelligent than the adult that acts like an ass. But as kids or adults... what gives them the right to act this way. Just because they are human? I have a hard time really under standing how the thought process work for some people?

He was given a citation. Suspended. And that is probably all that will happen.

Remember..possible jail time...

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Da Munk

The article doesn't really give enough information to make a call either way. It said he was using language to provoke violence, but all that is certain is that he cursed. He really might have been out of line and deserving of the punishment, but if all he did was use some foul language directed at his teacher then possible jail time is definitely an overreaction.

bonehed1

Well if he doesn't become a bad ass he will become someones g/f and turn into some psycho...either way this whole story is stupid. I remember back in skewl when kids would cuss out teachers or just cuss in general would get suspended and nothing past that...they must have to much time on their hands to put real criminals in jail.

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maleficent

he didn't cuss at a teacher, he cussed at a deputy -- In my mind that makes him a police officer -- and the kid is as dumb as a stump for doing so.

But -- Even if it was a teacher -- on what planet is it acceptable behavior to cuss at a teacher? Why does that seem to be no big deal to people? And it's not the cussing that would concern me, it's the complete and utter lack of respect for an authority figure, the parents are absolutely to blame for how this young man was raised (at 17 you are not a kid and you should know better.)

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