A Study on How we Perceive our Bodies - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Minx · 05-13-2003, 02:01 PM

I found this quite interesting as far as the stats went.
As far as I'm concerned...if you don't like the way I look then don't look! I was a little surprised to read the breast part and very happy to read the intellect part of it! I've always said that beauty fades but you still have to converse with your significant other long after that happens!
An interesting read though...

By Linda Carroll
MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR

May 13 — We asked what you thought of your looks: your face, your shape, your height. And what you told us is that the majority of men and women are still working with the same old double standards of beauty. While most men are comfortable with their bodies, most women won’t be happy until they’re as thin as a toothpick.
IN GENERAL, men aren’t daunted by their physical imperfections. Although nearly twice as many men as women in the ELLE/MSNBC.com Sex and Body Image Survey reported being overweight, the women were far more likely to be unhappy about the extra pounds. Women were also more likely than men to want to have sex in the dark and to eschew swim suits altogether.
Maybe guys SHOULD be more self conscious
Almost two-thirds of the men in our survey said they are overweight or obese. Just under half of those who are overweight think they look fine, while a full 15 percent of those who are obese think there is no problem with the extra lard. But, while the spare tire may not get in the way of finding a date, it could lead to future health problems. Think clogged arteries and high blood pressure, guys.
Women worship at the altar of the runway model
Almost two-thirds of the women surveyed are either a healthy weight or too thin. But even these women aren’t happy with their size. Just under half of the women who are at a healthy weight want to be thinner, while some 14 percent of the underweight women want to lose more. Nine out of 10 women who were overweight said they realize they need to shed a few pounds.
Men don’t let flab get in the way of a good time
Among overweight men, only 15 percent worry so much about the spare tire that they avoid being seen in a swimsuit; 9 percent said they prefer making love in the dark; and 22 percent said they hide some part of their body during sex. Just 17 percent said they would resort to liposuction to melt away the extra pounds.
Compare this to overweight women, 45 percent of whom said they won’t wear a swimsuit in public; 34 percent said they prefer making love in the dark; and 59 percent said they try to cover up some part of their body during sex. A full 42 percent said they’d consider liposuction.
What the opposite sex wants
We asked whether you’d rather have a perfect body or have a mate with a perfect body. Almost 90 percent of women said they’d rather have a perfect body themselves, while just under 60 percent of men said they’d prefer their women to have perfect bodies.
Ah, those flabby abs
Men and women are equally obsessed with bulging stomachs. When asked to list their least attractive feature, 37 percent of women and 40 percent of men pointed to flabby abs as their most embarrassing body part. In fact, almost 35 percent of women said they are so self-conscious about their tummies, that they try to hide the bulge during sex.
Penis size is another story
First, let’s put this in context: 80 percent of women said their guy is big enough. But while 54 percent of men said their organ is just right, a full 44 percent want to supersize. Even men who said they have large organs still seem to adhere to the “bigger is better” philosophy. Men clearly don’t grasp the concept that there is such a thing as too big. In fact, among women who said their partner is endowed with an above-average organ, about 5 percent said they’d like to downsize. Basically, it’s a simple geometry problem — you can’t fit a Ford Expedition into a Honda-sized space.
Women, not men, buy into bigger breasts
Despite all the centerfolds displaying big-busted women, most men — 71 percent — said they’re completely happy with the size of their partner’s breasts. Surprisingly, there were men — admittedly only 3 percent — who wish their partner’s breasts were smaller. In contrast, almost 30 percent of women said they’d like their breasts to be larger, while 9 percent said they’d like smaller ones.
Men also seem to be less concerned than women about drooping bustlines. Almost 30 percent of women said they were unhappy with the loss of breast perkiness, while only 18 percent of men said the droop bothered them.
The very thin among us
Men and women clearly look at thinness differently. For the most part, men perceive being underweight as a bad thing while women aspire to the condition. It’s quite possible that thin men worry that they don’t look manly enough. Thin men were more likely than others to select chest and arms as being their least attractive body parts.
More underweight men — 23 percent — than overweight men — 15 percent — said they avoid wearing a swimsuit in public.
Still, 14 percent of underweight women and 15 percent of underweight men thought they could be thinner yet — could these be budding eating disorders?
Both men and women agree short is out
Hardly anyone wants to be shorter. But 34 percent of women and 37 percent of men said they’d like to be taller. Perhaps we’ll see a comeback of platform shoes?
The majority of us are happy with our heights: 63 percent of women and 61 percent of men said they wouldn’t choose to add or subtract even an inch.
Brains are best
Reassuringly, both sexes seem to understand that beauty is fleeting and brains last longer. Just under 79 percent of men — and 72 percent of women — said they would rather their mate have a high IQ than a perfect body.

Limitations of the survey: Because we posted this survey on two Web sites — ELLE.com and MSNBC.com — for two weeks in February, our respondent pool cannot be considered a scientific random representative sample.

Linda Carroll is a free-lance reporter based in New Jersey. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Health and Smart Money.

bender · 05-13-2003, 02:18 PM

Okay let me get this streight...
2/3 of guys are fat, and 2/3 of women are thin, and most of the girls out there want larger breasts.....
So as a fat guy, I could still end up with a thin girl who wanted bigger breasts but really doesn't care what shape I'm in.
Yup, there is a God, and he's a guy.

krwlz · 05-13-2003, 03:31 PM

i agree bender, haha, however im prolly one of those unsatisfied skinny dudes...i wish i was a bit bigger in the arm/chest...oh well. not that big a deal according to this study.

Frowning Budah · 05-13-2003, 04:01 PM

I think it is because women are using models thir ideal and guys don't have a lot they have to look up to.

rockwaldo · 05-13-2003, 04:25 PM

I think a man only needs worry about fighting against the beer gut, while women have EVERYTHING to worry about...
on a superficial level at least...

SecretMethod70 · 05-13-2003, 04:35 PM

I have long held that body image is tied to something that art has been making an effort to point out. The media. However, I think it's even more perverse than that because it's really a vicious circle - the media only has to effect a small group of people and they spread the message like the plague to others. And it all begins around puberty.

Studies have been done (scientific studies, unlike this one) that show that up until around the onset of puberty males and females run a pretty equal course in self-esteem and in body image (a subsection of self-esteem really).

Enter puberty.

Naturally, it's a time of discomfort for both sexes - changes occur causing consciousness of things that were never considered before.

Still, look at the immediate messages received with this new consciousness. Girls become conscious of their breasts, only to be bombarded with messages in the media about bigger=better, etc. Nevermind the real world doesn't actually work that way or think that way. With the consciousness of their weight comes bombardment of a hollywood culture where only the most attractive - and least real or realistic - people are successful.

This is a serious problem. I only wish I knew a solution, but I fear perhaps were so far along the damage is permanent. The damage to feminine self-image cannot and should not be "fixed" as they get older and are forced to cope, but, rather, a way must be found to stop these messages from getting through in the developmental years in the first place.

As of now, the only way I know of to even begin doing that is very, very careful parenting.

ARTelevision · 05-13-2003, 06:17 PM

yes, thanks so much Minx, I have some body image info in my mass-media mind control research. I'm posting that a little at a time.

The media tells us what we should look like and we swallow it hook, line, and sinker.

Body Image is a very deep part of our self-awareness and it is distorted by external pressures and internal insecurities to a sad degree.

It's a very important issue to be aware of.

hotzot · 05-13-2003, 09:53 PM

the poll is a load, most women think they're just right or too thin?!?!?! must have been taken in Florida or LA.

SecretMethod70 · 05-13-2003, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by hotzot
the poll is a load, most women think they're just right or too thin?!?!?! must have been taken in Florida or LA.

Read again - most women ARE just right or too thin, but still think that they need to lose weight.

Quote:

Almost two-thirds of the women surveyed are either a healthy weight or too thin. But even these women aren’t happy with their size. Just under half of the women who are at a healthy weight want to be thinner, while some 14 percent of the underweight women want to lose more.

Dragonlich · 05-13-2003, 11:52 PM

Although I look perfect (being a man and all)...

Over the years, the "perfect" body has changed dramatically, for males *and* females - the female perfection is just more obvious and accentuated. In very (very) ancient times, stone-age and such, big women with huge hips were perfect. In ancient Egypt, people were supposed to be bald (men and women), and wore wigs and loads of make-up. In Greece, men and women had to look muscular/athletic. In medieval times, big women came back into the picture, preferably as white as possible. Today, women are supposed to look like a Barbie-doll.

As for men: one need only look at our movie heroes to see how the perfect male changes from one moment to the other - remember the olde Hulk movies? Remember Fred Astaire and his kin? Sylvester Stalone compared to Matt Damon or Leonardo DiCaprio? The hairy chest of old compared to today's fashion models?

This whole thing isn't just historical, it's also cultural: African-Americans are said to find bigger women (with bigger butts) attractive. In Africa itself, bigger women are also more attractive.

It's got everything to do with the environment: if populations are small, women have to be able to get kids (-> large hips). If populations are generally starving, women who are well-fed are better, because they're apparently rich (-> fat). If populations have to work hard, women who do not work are rich (-> white skin). In populations with a lot of wars and contests, women that reflect that are attractive (-> athletic).

Now, how does today's Barbie-doll perfection fit in? We're all rich, which makes fat people less attractive; we're no longer that interested in kids, making large hips more irrelevant; in our free time, we spend time on the beach, making tanned people attractive, instead of white ones... We have to make up other criteria, and with our interest in sex as a normal, healthy thing, it is no surprise that women that accentuate their sexual side would be more attractive; hence the big boobs, big lips, long hair, narrow waist, and sexy clothing.

But that's just my interpretation.

guthmund · 05-14-2003, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by bender
Okay let me get this streight...
2/3 of guys are fat, and 2/3 of women are thin, and most of the girls out there want larger breasts.....
So as a fat guy, I could still end up with a thin girl who wanted bigger breasts but really doesn't care what shape I'm in.
Yup, there is a God, and he's a guy.

Amen, brother.

Ganguro · 05-14-2003, 01:19 AM

gee.. i could have told you what this article has said. Look at the responses on the titty board.
Go to your average "blonde " thread and compare responses to an "asian" thread or "plumper" one. Hell i edit 2 or more asshats a day who cant play nice. Appearantly, if you can't see someone's ribs..they are a hog, but if you see the ribs too well..they're anorexic. Yay for westernized beauty standards huh?

JoseFlanders · 07-24-2005, 08:22 PM

Strange.

Ustwo · 07-24-2005, 08:33 PM

Woohoo thread from the dead!

My wife and I have been working out/dieting a lot the last few months and I have to say I won't be 100% pleased with her looks until she has a flat tummy. Its wrong and shallow of me since she looks pretty damn good, but I'm a shallow kinda guy. Luckily for me she won't be satisfied either.

For me, I have an easier time, I had less to loose by % than she did and really just need to build my upper body/abs more.

As for losing weight, I don't understand all the whines about how hard it is. Just shove less food in your pie hole. When I have been fat in the past its 100% my fault due to my excessive caloric intake. The only difficulty is motivation, and looking better, feeling better, and staying fit so my little one has a dad a long time is motivation enough for me.

The.Lunatic · 07-24-2005, 10:28 PM

This is so true, my x-g/f has a great body and is very good looking, but she'll never be satisfied. Luckily for her she's pretty smart/couldn't hold a diet to save her life so she'll probably never develop an eating disorder, but I do believe that she sees her self a little bit differently than the rest of us.

Quick list of things that don't help matters

Guys usually get to choose women, women get chosen...
Just plain true women don't ask men to marry them this day in age one could walk up to a guy in a bar, but usually would use flirting tactics to try and get him to come to her.

Women's clothing... it just doesn't hide much. Men’s clothing is just more comfortable to wear and more comfortable to be seen in as it does hide imperfections.

Case and point women’s jeans vs. men’s

enough said

All that said I like it they way things are

I’ve noticed a lot of the girls I’ve knew in high school who've been more carefree and tom boyish are now trying to become better looking.

Go-go double standards makes girls moar sexay!

05-13-2003, 02:01 PM	#1 (permalink)
Minx Junkie Location: Up yonder	A Study on How we Perceive our Bodies I found this quite interesting as far as the stats went. As far as I'm concerned...if you don't like the way I look then don't look! I was a little surprised to read the breast part and very happy to read the intellect part of it! I've always said that beauty fades but you still have to converse with your significant other long after that happens! An interesting read though... By Linda Carroll MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR May 13 — We asked what you thought of your looks: your face, your shape, your height. And what you told us is that the majority of men and women are still working with the same old double standards of beauty. While most men are comfortable with their bodies, most women won’t be happy until they’re as thin as a toothpick. IN GENERAL, men aren’t daunted by their physical imperfections. Although nearly twice as many men as women in the ELLE/MSNBC.com Sex and Body Image Survey reported being overweight, the women were far more likely to be unhappy about the extra pounds. Women were also more likely than men to want to have sex in the dark and to eschew swim suits altogether. Maybe guys SHOULD be more self conscious Almost two-thirds of the men in our survey said they are overweight or obese. Just under half of those who are overweight think they look fine, while a full 15 percent of those who are obese think there is no problem with the extra lard. But, while the spare tire may not get in the way of finding a date, it could lead to future health problems. Think clogged arteries and high blood pressure, guys. Women worship at the altar of the runway model Almost two-thirds of the women surveyed are either a healthy weight or too thin. But even these women aren’t happy with their size. Just under half of the women who are at a healthy weight want to be thinner, while some 14 percent of the underweight women want to lose more. Nine out of 10 women who were overweight said they realize they need to shed a few pounds. Men don’t let flab get in the way of a good time Among overweight men, only 15 percent worry so much about the spare tire that they avoid being seen in a swimsuit; 9 percent said they prefer making love in the dark; and 22 percent said they hide some part of their body during sex. Just 17 percent said they would resort to liposuction to melt away the extra pounds. Compare this to overweight women, 45 percent of whom said they won’t wear a swimsuit in public; 34 percent said they prefer making love in the dark; and 59 percent said they try to cover up some part of their body during sex. A full 42 percent said they’d consider liposuction. What the opposite sex wants We asked whether you’d rather have a perfect body or have a mate with a perfect body. Almost 90 percent of women said they’d rather have a perfect body themselves, while just under 60 percent of men said they’d prefer their women to have perfect bodies. Ah, those flabby abs Men and women are equally obsessed with bulging stomachs. When asked to list their least attractive feature, 37 percent of women and 40 percent of men pointed to flabby abs as their most embarrassing body part. In fact, almost 35 percent of women said they are so self-conscious about their tummies, that they try to hide the bulge during sex. Penis size is another story First, let’s put this in context: 80 percent of women said their guy is big enough. But while 54 percent of men said their organ is just right, a full 44 percent want to supersize. Even men who said they have large organs still seem to adhere to the “bigger is better” philosophy. Men clearly don’t grasp the concept that there is such a thing as too big. In fact, among women who said their partner is endowed with an above-average organ, about 5 percent said they’d like to downsize. Basically, it’s a simple geometry problem — you can’t fit a Ford Expedition into a Honda-sized space. Women, not men, buy into bigger breasts Despite all the centerfolds displaying big-busted women, most men — 71 percent — said they’re completely happy with the size of their partner’s breasts. Surprisingly, there were men — admittedly only 3 percent — who wish their partner’s breasts were smaller. In contrast, almost 30 percent of women said they’d like their breasts to be larger, while 9 percent said they’d like smaller ones. Men also seem to be less concerned than women about drooping bustlines. Almost 30 percent of women said they were unhappy with the loss of breast perkiness, while only 18 percent of men said the droop bothered them. The very thin among us Men and women clearly look at thinness differently. For the most part, men perceive being underweight as a bad thing while women aspire to the condition. It’s quite possible that thin men worry that they don’t look manly enough. Thin men were more likely than others to select chest and arms as being their least attractive body parts. More underweight men — 23 percent — than overweight men — 15 percent — said they avoid wearing a swimsuit in public. Still, 14 percent of underweight women and 15 percent of underweight men thought they could be thinner yet — could these be budding eating disorders? Both men and women agree short is out Hardly anyone wants to be shorter. But 34 percent of women and 37 percent of men said they’d like to be taller. Perhaps we’ll see a comeback of platform shoes? The majority of us are happy with our heights: 63 percent of women and 61 percent of men said they wouldn’t choose to add or subtract even an inch. Brains are best Reassuringly, both sexes seem to understand that beauty is fleeting and brains last longer. Just under 79 percent of men — and 72 percent of women — said they would rather their mate have a high IQ than a perfect body. Limitations of the survey: Because we posted this survey on two Web sites — ELLE.com and MSNBC.com — for two weeks in February, our respondent pool cannot be considered a scientific random representative sample. Linda Carroll is a free-lance reporter based in New Jersey. Her work has appeared in The New York Times, Health and Smart Money. __________________ You've been a naughty boy....go to my room!

05-13-2003, 04:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	I have long held that body image is tied to something that art has been making an effort to point out. The media. However, I think it's even more perverse than that because it's really a vicious circle - the media only has to effect a small group of people and they spread the message like the plague to others. And it all begins around puberty. Studies have been done (scientific studies, unlike this one) that show that up until around the onset of puberty males and females run a pretty equal course in self-esteem and in body image (a subsection of self-esteem really). Enter puberty. Naturally, it's a time of discomfort for both sexes - changes occur causing consciousness of things that were never considered before. Still, look at the immediate messages received with this new consciousness. Girls become conscious of their breasts, only to be bombarded with messages in the media about bigger=better, etc. Nevermind the real world doesn't actually work that way or think that way. With the consciousness of their weight comes bombardment of a hollywood culture where only the most attractive - and least real or realistic - people are successful. This is a serious problem. I only wish I knew a solution, but I fear perhaps were so far along the damage is permanent. The damage to feminine self-image cannot and should not be "fixed" as they get older and are forced to cope, but, rather, a way must be found to stop these messages from getting through in the developmental years in the first place. As of now, the only way I know of to even begin doing that is very, very careful parenting. __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

05-13-2003, 06:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	yes, thanks so much Minx, I have some body image info in my mass-media mind control research. I'm posting that a little at a time. The media tells us what we should look like and we swallow it hook, line, and sinker. Body Image is a very deep part of our self-awareness and it is distorted by external pressures and internal insecurities to a sad degree. It's a very important issue to be aware of. __________________ create evolution

05-13-2003, 09:53 PM	#8 (permalink)
hotzot We're having potato pancakes! Location: stalag 13	the poll is a load, most women think they're just right or too thin?!?!?! must have been taken in Florida or LA. __________________ The Bully Boys are here!

07-24-2005, 08:22 PM	#13 (permalink)
JoseFlanders Upright	huh Strange. Last edited by JoseFlanders; 03-15-2008 at 09:37 PM.. Reason: huh

05-13-2003, 02:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
bender Addict Location: around the corner	Okay let me get this streight... 2/3 of guys are fat, and 2/3 of women are thin, and most of the girls out there want larger breasts..... So as a fat guy, I could still end up with a thin girl who wanted bigger breasts but really doesn't care what shape I'm in. Yup, there is a God, and he's a guy.

05-13-2003, 03:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	i agree bender, haha, however im prolly one of those unsatisfied skinny dudes...i wish i was a bit bigger in the arm/chest...oh well. not that big a deal according to this study.

05-13-2003, 04:01 PM	#4 (permalink)
Frowning Budah Slave of Fear	I think it is because women are using models thir ideal and guys don't have a lot they have to look up to.

05-13-2003, 04:25 PM	#5 (permalink)
rockwaldo Tilted	I think a man only needs worry about fighting against the beer gut, while women have EVERYTHING to worry about... on a superficial level at least...

05-13-2003, 11:52 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dragonlich 42, baby! Location: The Netherlands	Although I look perfect (being a man and all)... Over the years, the "perfect" body has changed dramatically, for males and females - the female perfection is just more obvious and accentuated. In very (very) ancient times, stone-age and such, big women with huge hips were perfect. In ancient Egypt, people were supposed to be bald (men and women), and wore wigs and loads of make-up. In Greece, men and women had to look muscular/athletic. In medieval times, big women came back into the picture, preferably as white as possible. Today, women are supposed to look like a Barbie-doll. As for men: one need only look at our movie heroes to see how the perfect male changes from one moment to the other - remember the olde Hulk movies? Remember Fred Astaire and his kin? Sylvester Stalone compared to Matt Damon or Leonardo DiCaprio? The hairy chest of old compared to today's fashion models? This whole thing isn't just historical, it's also cultural: African-Americans are said to find bigger women (with bigger butts) attractive. In Africa itself, bigger women are also more attractive. It's got everything to do with the environment: if populations are small, women have to be able to get kids (-> large hips). If populations are generally starving, women who are well-fed are better, because they're apparently rich (-> fat). If populations have to work hard, women who do not work are rich (-> white skin). In populations with a lot of wars and contests, women that reflect that are attractive (-> athletic). Now, how does today's Barbie-doll perfection fit in? We're all rich, which makes fat people less attractive; we're no longer that interested in kids, making large hips more irrelevant; in our free time, we spend time on the beach, making tanned people attractive, instead of white ones... We have to make up other criteria, and with our interest in sex as a normal, healthy thing, it is no surprise that women that accentuate their sexual side would be more attractive; hence the big boobs, big lips, long hair, narrow waist, and sexy clothing. But that's just my interpretation.

05-14-2003, 01:19 AM	#12 (permalink)
Ganguro Army of Me	gee.. i could have told you what this article has said. Look at the responses on the titty board. Go to your average "blonde " thread and compare responses to an "asian" thread or "plumper" one. Hell i edit 2 or more asshats a day who cant play nice. Appearantly, if you can't see someone's ribs..they are a hog, but if you see the ribs too well..they're anorexic. Yay for westernized beauty standards huh?

07-24-2005, 08:33 PM	#14 (permalink)
Ustwo Pissing in the cornflakes	Woohoo thread from the dead! My wife and I have been working out/dieting a lot the last few months and I have to say I won't be 100% pleased with her looks until she has a flat tummy. Its wrong and shallow of me since she looks pretty damn good, but I'm a shallow kinda guy. Luckily for me she won't be satisfied either. For me, I have an easier time, I had less to loose by % than she did and really just need to build my upper body/abs more. As for losing weight, I don't understand all the whines about how hard it is. Just shove less food in your pie hole. When I have been fat in the past its 100% my fault due to my excessive caloric intake. The only difficulty is motivation, and looking better, feeling better, and staying fit so my little one has a dad a long time is motivation enough for me. __________________ Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps.

07-24-2005, 10:28 PM	#15 (permalink)
The.Lunatic Psycho Location: Somewhere just beyond the realm of sanity...	This is so true, my x-g/f has a great body and is very good looking, but she'll never be satisfied. Luckily for her she's pretty smart/couldn't hold a diet to save her life so she'll probably never develop an eating disorder, but I do believe that she sees her self a little bit differently than the rest of us. Quick list of things that don't help matters Guys usually get to choose women, women get chosen... Just plain true women don't ask men to marry them this day in age one could walk up to a guy in a bar, but usually would use flirting tactics to try and get him to come to her. Women's clothing... it just doesn't hide much. Men’s clothing is just more comfortable to wear and more comfortable to be seen in as it does hide imperfections. Case and point women’s jeans vs. men’s enough said All that said I like it they way things are I’ve noticed a lot of the girls I’ve knew in high school who've been more carefree and tom boyish are now trying to become better looking. Go-go double standards makes girls moar sexay! __________________ Proud memeber of the Insomniac Club.