ARTelevision

Three 'Bumfights' Producers Plead Guilty in Calif.
from Yahoo News

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Three young men who produced the brief Internet sensation "Bumfights" pleaded guilty on Friday to paying homeless men to trade blows, charges that could send them to jail for a year.


Ryan McPherson, 19, Daniel Tanner, 21, and 24-year-old Zachary Bubeck -- who were accused of persuading homeless people to fight in front of a camera in exchange for cash, food, liquor, and hotel rooms -- each pleaded guilty to a single count of conspiracy to promote illegal fighting.


A fourth defendant, 21-year-old Michael Slyman, pleaded guilty to the same charge in March and is scheduled to be sentenced next week.


After a preliminary hearing in January, a San Diego Superior Court judge dismissed more serious charges against the four defendants, who have also been sued for $100,000 by two of the homeless men who starred in the "Bumfights" videos.


A San Diego attorney representing Bubeck has vowed to have the lawsuit dismissed, saying that "bad taste is not actionable" and that the homeless men participated willingly.


More than 300,000 of the tapes were reportedly sold on the Internet for $19.99 each, and a Web site (www.bumfights.com) was still promoting the series on Friday.
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I'm all for prosecuting these people.
They deserve criminal sentences.
For once, people who produce mind-poison get what they deserve.

Anyone want to defend their "right to free expression"?

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afraidofninjas

Not I, I think they should have to fight each other for freedom. They are a sad reminder of the state of humankind. Exploiting for profit... touching, really.

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Liquor Dealer

I think they should lose all of the assets they gained by this operation. The had this on 20/20 or one of those shows a while back - some of these guys had bones broken and fairly serious injuries. I think everything they made should be divided up among their "stars".

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gov135

If I paid two guys to beat the crap out of each other than marketed it you'd prosecute me? Take my earnings?

Don't they do the exact same thing with the Ultimate Fighting Championship? Those guys break each others arms and draw blood all the time.

I don't see any difference. Paid and willing participants marketed to an accepting public.

I may not like it, but criminal, please.

krwlz

gotta agree with gov here guys, it was all fair, hence the single count of illegal fighting...they probably didnt have the right permit or some shit...

Glory's Sun

I don't really see a problem with what they did.. every company, every person who sells anything exploits something whether it's the type of advertising they use or the actual product they sell. We live in a capitalistic society and I'd rather see someone go out and do something like this than sit on their asses and claim welfare any day. IMO

Mael

gotta agree with gov and those following him. the "stars" agreed to it, it's no different than fight night at the ceasars, IMO.

WhoaitsZ

can the 'bums' be found? Have they?

i think the guys deserve jail time. it's disgusting.
hmm i just reread it. they're booked on "causing illegal fighting" or some such. enough said. off to ass-bang land.

Lebell

I'm afraid I also don't see a difference between the more "civilized" boxing and fight events and this travesty.

That being said, I don't watch those either. Men pummeling each other for entertainment of the masses is barbaric, IMHO.

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sixate

These bums had the right to turn down the cash. Screw them, I don't really care at all that they were taken advantage of. Personally I'm gonna go look on Kazaa for the vid. I'd love to watch it. There's no way in hell that anyone should go to jail over this. There's organized fighting of all sorts every single day all over the world. I love it all and this is no different to me.

These are homeles people, scum, bums. They are that way for a reason and I don't really give a crap what people do to them.

Big Julie

I'm presuming that your average contestant in an Ultimate Fighting Championship, Strongman/He-Man Contest, or what have you, isn't being fast talked into it because he needs a few bucks for another fix, or bottle of hootch. Or just a plain old shower and clean bed for a night or two.
I think these assclowns should be stripped of everything, and chucked out on the streets for a couple years, so they can get to know who they took advantage of. Couple years living under a bridge, and they'd prolly fight each other for a sammich.

I say guilty for taking advantage of those with diminished mental capacity.

Elmo123abc

i totaly agree with sixate :-) great point man

Glory's Sun

So homeless people have a diminished mental capacity? America is the land of opportunity.. what you do with that opportunity is up to you. I don't feel sorry for homeless people. Sure bad things happen to good people but Mcdonalds is always hiring I'm sure they could land a job there if they really wanted to. There is no difference in "exploiting" a couple of bums fighting and a video with a bunch of college girls flashing their boobs. Seriously, the girls are usually drunk and want to make a quick 50 bucks or so. What's the difference? The only difference between bum fights and "organized" fighting is that the prize money is higher and they get to wear a gold belt whoo hoo big deal. Put these guys in jail and they'll end up making money on a video with jail fights.

Wile E

Big Julie nailed it. Whether you feel sorry for someone or not, I could care less. Its the exploitation of the homeless that is why these kids should be dealt with. For two reasons. 1) Taking advantage of ones personal situation, is morally, ethically, and legally wrong. Its basically blackmail. Sure they could've said no, but their predicament dictates that they would not give up a chance for what was being offered. You go up to these same people, offer them the same offering to kill another homeless guy, you'll probably have a similar success rate. Oh wait, they could've said no so its ok. Bullshit. Whether you agree with how, why, or who got these people to be in the place in life that they are, it doesn't matter. 2) These videos send out a wrong message. Sure there are plenty of garbage out there to rot our youths minds, and I will agree with most they all have a right to be out there. Parents responsibilities and social responsibilites I'm not going to discuss. But this particular series of videos give the message that these "bums" aren't people and should treated as such. And that I will not agree with.

These kids are not going to do hardtime, nor will they be punished severly at all. So the little scare that they are getting right now will do them some good. Maybe next time they'll think a little before they do something like this.

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ComfortablyNumb

I don't like the way FHM promoted their site. Its morally wrong to prosper from someone elses misfortune.

Big Julie

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that. From the bits and pieces I've seen of these 'Bum Fights', however, I think it does apply.
I've known several 'homeless' guys, that lived at shelters and held down decent jobs, and have gotten out on their own again. They weren't 'bums,' and wouldn't have beat anyone up for a six-pack.
But there are some who, whether from original mental problems, or long-term substance abuse, who have been sheparded by society to the edges, and been given that nudge over the edge, and subsequently ignored/forgotten. These are who are filmmakers were preying upon.

So would it be okay to take a camera into a home for the 'developementally disabled,' and have them beat each other up, for cake and ice-cream? It's just a bunch of 'tards, innit?

Cynthetiq

humans have ALWAYS exploited other humans... since the begging of recorded history... Egyptians are the furthest I can go back off the top fo my head.

As for the morality behind it. Wile is correct that you'd get a good hit rate asking them to do something like killing someone else.

One has to look at Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs and will see that these people being at the lowest level would definitely seek out anything to achieve those simple things.

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Glory's Sun

Homeless people are humans too and yes they have rights..but I don't see how them fighting each other on video is wrong. "IF" they didn't know they were going to be on video or they actually didn't get paid then yes it would be wrong.. but since I'm sure they did then it's wrong IMO. There are people who are forgotten in every walk of life. Whether it's the confused teenager who loves his gothic music and hides from society or the homeless person who chooses to drink himself numb. I just don't see how this is any different than any other form of exploitation. After the 9/11 attacks people were making tons of money by exploiting the patriotic sense that was revived in America. People could buy a $.25 flag and stand on the street corner and sell it for $5.00.
As far as going into the develpmentally disabled home and letting them fight that wouldn't really be right would it? They don't have the capacity to understand exactly what they are doing. These "bums" that were in the videos surely had enough knowledge to understand that they were fighting and they would be paid to fight and that would be the end. The developmentally disabled would think that it was an activity or some other function and wouldn't understand the motives behind it. Whether this is right or wrong isn't really an issue because there is exploitation in every walk of life every day and it is ignored.

hilbert25

It's been shown in studies that I'm not willing to search right now that a much larger percentage of Homeless people than other Americans are mentally ill, or substance dependant. People who say that it's their own fault have not seen their friends go homeless due to drugs or getting kicked out of their houses by their parents.

Not many people really want to beg for scraps of food, sleep outside in 30 degree weather, or have to worry about getting knifed by junkies in shelters.

And just because exploitation happens everywhere doesn't mean that it's right. These guys are no better than pimps who take coke addicted girls and turn them out on the street, and should be treated as such.

Dorian_S

Allow to me to call 'bullshit' on this one...

An ad for, say, carpet cleaner, exploits the fact that people like to have clean floors.

These guys exploited the fact that bums are willing to humiliate and injure themselves for a pittance. What they did was low. I dunno about illegal, but very fucking low.

-D.S.

Daval

I hope these guys get nailed hard.

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BoCo

Right on, Art! I'm not gonna argue with that.

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Troublebot

I'm not too worried about these kids.

I fully believe in Karma.

What the law can't do, Karma will take care of quite nicely.

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maximusveritas

Regardless of the legalities behind their actions, what these kids did was morally wrong and reprehensible. The comparisons to boxing promoters are actually not that far off in my mind, but that's another subject.

XenuHubbard

Since I'm a humanist, and a pacifist, I oppose these kind of videos. And I hope a huge mob of bums grab the kids that produced these videos, and staple them by the nuts to a burning building. And tapes it.

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soccerstudpc20

way off topic, but am I the only one that thougt of Full House when I saw Daniel Tanner.

TrollInvestigtr

wish i thought of it first.... if they get to keep the money that is. I could live for the rest of my life off the interest from 6 million.

Grothendieck

There are two questions: The mind-poison, and the advantage-taking. I agree that those movies are mind-poison, and I disagree with it, but there is far worse mind-poison out there.
The main question though is whether the bums were taken advantage of or not. I understand they weren't physically forced to take part, but agreed to out of their free will. If so, it is their right to take part. They were probably paid to take part, right? It may be compared to the financial lure of prostitution and pornography. In both cases, you have people who don't earn a lot, and won't get the chance to otherwise. Is it wrong for them to earn their money in ways which the more privileged might consider degrading or otherwise unacceptable? I don't think so.

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Memnoch

We are responsible for our own actions, no matter the circumstances. If someone tells you to cut off your own finger, even if that person is holding a gun to your head, it's still your own conscious decision on what you do. These guys should be tried for illegal fighting organization, and that's it. They've done nothing more than seen an oppurtunity to make some money and seized it. Interesting that so many of you who look at porn on a regular basis would call this reprehensible - aside from the huge porn stars (Jenna Jameson, Peter North, Asia Carrera), the rest of them are treated very poorly, and often one's entire life can be altered because of one's participation in such a field.

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Frowning Budah

This is a tough one. I would have to say it definitely isn't moral, but no more immoral than Companies that take advantage of their workers that can't quit because they need the money or health insurance. Tell me the migrant workers picking our fruits and vegetables aren't taken advantage of. Many other sectors of our society are also abused by those with more money and power.
That doesn't make this right but why single out these kids?

WhoaitsZ

as bad as I hate to say this, morals do not equal laws. so if it's morally wrong or not is beside the point when it comes to them going to jail or not.

Sixate: Screw them, I don't really care at all that they were taken advantage of.

The thing about this is how it goes against other issues of shady business. What if we went out to young girls who are poor or homeless and offered them $100 for a blowjob?

it is illegal, by law.

I am for fighting if people wish to fight. I am against unregulated fighting .

the guys deserve to go to jail for what they did.

As far as morals or what not. Sure, a lot of 'bums' are 'bums' because they are lazy. A friend of mine's father has given business cards and explicit instructions on how to come to his work place for a job. No worries about looks or anything, just come... not one has.

then again, I would imagine 70% or more are mentally disabled, or dependant on substance (which the substance abuse is a very low import to me, i've beat addiction and know its hard but -possible). The coverage for people to get mental health help is nill to nothing. I know by experience.

If you offer a sound person the chance to fight another with a contract claiming they are mentally sound, then go for it.

if you offer a mentally ill person the same thing, i hope you get shot and die. taking advantage of one's disabilities is as low as you can get.

nukeu666

anyone checked out 'bumfights 2'?

the one where the guy wants his teeth out is MAD! (he ultimatly uses a pair of pliers to pull 2 of his teeth out!!!)

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BoCo

wtf? someone close this dead thread.

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ARTelevision

Good call.

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