Pushing Junk Food is OK or Not? Discuss... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

ARTelevision · 05-08-2003, 04:18 AM

Lawyers plan new fast food assault

from Netscape News

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Fast food purveyors McDonald's and Burger King are about to be hit -- again -- with a slew of claims that their burgers and fries cause obesity, and some critics say they even feed an addiction.

Litigators want to charge companies in the business of selling burgers with contributing to the rising obesity rate in the United States.

The National Restaurant Association, which represents McDonald's and some 870,000 other U.S. restaurants, calls the claims "frivolous," and "twisted and tortuous."

In February, a federal court threw out a lawsuit making similar claims.

But attorney John Banzhaf, whose 1970s crusades against the tobacco industry helped get cigarette commercials off the air, is pushing ahead. He plans to deliver a letter stating his claims to the restaurant group and to debate them on Thursday with its president at Washington's National Press Club.

"It would be a precursor to a legal action or suit," said Banzhaf, a law professor at George Washington University.

Lawyer Richard Daynard, founder of the Tobacco Products Liability Project, is part of a group hosting a June conference in Boston with Tufts School of Medicine to discuss legal approaches to counter obesity.

The attorneys draw parallels to arguments that helped states win more than $200 billion in a 1998 settlement against cigarette manufacturers.

"Adults going in and pigging out on hamburgers is not going to go anywhere," said Washington-based attorney John Coale, one of the chief architects of the tobacco master settlement who has also taken on gun makers on behalf of several cities.

"When the public sees the extent of targeting kids for all these fast foods, then (litigation) is going to get some traction," he said.

Banzhaf and others claim that like cigarette makers, fast-food chains have withheld information about properties he said make their food addictive.

His letter cites research, recently summarised in New Scientist magazine, suggesting that at least some fast foods, especially those high in fat and sugar, can cause chemical changes in the brain the same way as nicotine and heroin.

"(T)he public is much less aware of the addictive-like effects of many fast foods than they are of the widely publicised addictive nature of nicotine in cigarettes," Banzhaf wrote in the letter, obtained by Reuters.

McDonald's said in a statement it makes nutritional information available to consumers.

INDIVIDUAL CHOICE

The Oak Brook, Illinois, company said leading experts and U.S. regulators "have clearly stated that weight issues are all about the totality of an individual's daily choices about exercise, sedentary lifestyle, diet and everything else involved in personal decision making."

Burger King deferred comment to the restaurant group.

"Dietitians will tell you that all foods can fit into a diet," Steven Anderson, president of the group, said. "Anything that makes a connection with tobacco, which does have addictive properties, to food, is a twisted and tortuous maze."

Some legal experts who have studied tobacco law say they think similarities between anti-cigarette legislation and anti-obesity claims are a stretch and smell of legal opportunism at a time when McDonald's and other fast-food companies are struggling financially.

"The facts are that high fat, high calorie food is not good for you. It would be preposterous to suggest that's any revelation," said Harlan Loeb, a Northwestern University law professor who has studied tobacco law. "Plaintiffs lawyers know full well they (fast-food companies) can ill afford to be dragged through protracted, high-profile lawsuits."

But those crafting anti-obesity claims said the risks to the public are not so obvious, and they are pushing for laws requiring fast-food chains to disclose calories and fat on foods like Big Macs, preferably through labelling. Banzhaf wants warning notices, not unlike those on cigarettes.

And while the public may have difficulty swallowing claims that people can blame obesity on a specific company or food, the issue is gaining ground. The first major obesity case, filed on behalf of two teenage girls against McDonald's, has been resubmitted to a Manhattan federal court.

Judge Robert Sweet dismissed the original suit but suggested the methods McDonald's uses to process its food could make it more dangerous than customers have reason to expect.

..............

As you know, I'm OK with prosecuting the junk food cartel and I don't think there exists a "right" to promote dangerous and potentially addictive "food" to minors.

As I know, most people disagree with my position on grounds that invariably invoke the terms, "frivolous lawsuits" and "personal responsibility".

Daval · 05-08-2003, 04:21 AM

I think people suing fast food companies for their own obesity is ridiculous.

People should be personaly responsible for their own actions/consequences and stop trying to take it out on corporate america.

Only in the USA would you see such a lawsuit - and with a good chance of winning too.

4thTimeLucky · 05-08-2003, 04:36 AM

Wow, someone else who writes posts as long as mine. Even if it was pasted!

Facts
- Fast food in large quantities is bad for your health and seriously affects the length and quality of your life (they call it morbid obesity for a reason).
- Children are unable on their own to make balanced judgements about the immediate rewards of sugary/fatty foods versus the long term health risks.
- Many children do not have the parental guidance to make this decision for them.
- Fast food firms agressively target marketing at young children.
For more read Fast Food Nation

Conclusions
IF we do not want the next generation to suffer unecessarily and place a great burden upon the health care system THEN we must act.
There are two broad options:
A) The wait-and-sue
B) The preempt-and-regulate

For some reason America seems very keen on (A). From terrorists destroying skyscrapers to coffee that is too hot, the solution to the world's problems is deemed to be a market-based one: If the threat of suing is strong enough then people/organisations/firms will not do bad things.
This is flawed because (i) the market often fails (terrorist supporters will not be put off by law suits), (ii) money ends up being taken away from where it is needed (schools) and reallocated in a way that distorts markets, and (iii) places you on a slippery slope to such cases as uptight-smart-girl v. unlucky-school.
Despite all this I wonder sometimes whether there isn't a belief in some quarters that maybe we need no laws at all, so long as the threat of economic sanctions through litigation is strong enough.

The alternative, (B), is to allow the state to flex some muscle to protect your own children. And let me remind you how happy many were to see the state flex its muscles to help Iraq's children. Fast food joints are banned from aggresively targeting children and are forced to add health warnings to their products, similar to those on cigarrette packets, or invest in proper dietary education for consumers. No more sponsored schools. No more adverts during prime-child-time. No more Happy Meals. No more lies about the health effects of their food.

Profits are great. But not when they are gained at the expense of the state and the health of your children.

Cynthetiq · 05-08-2003, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Daval
I think people suing fast food companies for their own obesity is ridiculous.

People should be personaly responsible for their own actions/consequences and stop trying to take it out on corporate america.

Only in the USA would you see such a lawsuit - and with a good chance of winning too.

Agreed. But it also is happening in Canada, England and a few other countries.

I'm waiting for the class action suits against car makers for drunk drivers and them not having installed breathalyzers or some other device to prevent misuse/speeding and against gun makers because they don't hit what they are supposed to hit when you fire them for the first time without any schooling or practice.

spectre · 05-08-2003, 05:45 AM

I love junk food as much as much as anyone, but if someone can't control themselves from eating, lawsuits shouldn't be involved. I just got over a bout with pancreatitis. They put you on an extremely low fat diet afterwards. That's not easy, but I managed to stay away from the junk food. Sadly, this is the trend, passing the blame onto others and making money off of it.

hrdwareguy · 05-08-2003, 05:50 AM

What ever happend to personal responsibility? I guess next we should sue Hersheys company for making all that chocolate we eat, and Brachs candy company, etc, etc.

Cynthetiq · 05-08-2003, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by spectre
I love junk food as much as much as anyone, but if someone can't control themselves from eating, lawsuits shouldn't be involved. I just got over a bout with pancreatitis. They put you on an extremely low fat diet afterwards. That's not easy, but I managed to stay away from the junk food. Sadly, this is the trend, passing the blame onto others and making money off of it.

same here. I have to make the conscious decisons of what I'm going to eat. I've been told by the dietician that I have 40grams of fat to play with a day. That's it. For those of you that don't know, a SMALL bag of potato chips has 13-15g of fat.

Just a Quater Pounder with cheese has 46g, add a supersize fries to that and you add another 29g of fat.

And just because something doesn't have fat in it doesn't mean that it's low in calories either. Being on a 2000 calorie a day diet, also doesn't allow for eating at McD's at all since a value meal (fat notwithstanding) will easily take up more than 1/2 of that 2000 calories.

BoCo · 05-08-2003, 06:05 AM

STUPID BULLSHIT!!!

Dude, I'm in great shape because I work out and bike all the damn time. Still, that doesn't mean I don't occasionally hit one of these cheap, greasy, discusting fast food places from time to time. The difference between me and all these assholes who would like to sue the fast food corporations are 1) I take responsibility for my own actions; 2) I don't allow myself to get 3 Super-size fries and an Oreo McFlurry for dessert (in other words, I can control myself); and 3) I get some fucking exercise! I recently started biking with a dude in his mid-30s who won't say no to any food at all, but this guy is in excellent shape--he even gives me a challenge on all but the biggest hills. The reason he's in such great shape (and even competes in tri-athalons) is because he isn't sedentary. That's really the answer the judges need to give to any plaintiff who tries to sue a company who serves them food: get your fat, lazy ass up, go outside, and get some fucking exercise!

Loki · 05-08-2003, 06:08 AM

im not really sure about this.

On one side, no-one is pushing you to eat junk food...but on the other side, places like McDonalds continuously advertise thier food image as healthy and "fun", anyway, which is just plain misleading.

Granted, it doesnt exactly take rocket science to figure out that a Big Mac, large fries and a large coke is not healthy for you, but a lawsuit on this is no less ridiculous than people suing supermarkets because they fell on thier floor, or people suing thier neighbour because thier kid jumped the fence into the neighbours yard and ate some poisonous leaves.

(personally i think the world would be a McHappier place without McDonalds anyway...)

blkdmnd · 05-08-2003, 06:10 AM

We need to teach people to be responsible for themselves and quit relying on the government and the courts to take care of their own. I want less government involvement, not more.

As for the kids, while this food is certainly not in their best health interest, it's the parents that need to step up to the plate (no pun intended), and take responsibility for what the kids eat. Children who fall victim to the ad campaigns put out by fast food chains, are really the fault of the parents. Teach them some discipline, some backbone and self respect!

Better yet, get their fat adolescent asses out from in front of the TV, so they don't get "victimized" by some Madison Ave. marketing wiz. They could certainly use the exercise.

4thTimeLucky · 05-08-2003, 06:19 AM

Sadly there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose parents are either too uninterested or too ignorant to teach their kids that McDonalds will use evey trick the book to get their dollar, and if that means pumping you full of sugar and fat, then so be it.

Those kids need someone big enough to take on McDonalds and look after their interests. That can either be the lawyers or the state. Saying blaming the kids for being too dumb or too lazy to act on their own is simply unfair, and will never solve the problem.

double · 05-08-2003, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by hrdwareguy
What ever happend to personal responsibility? I guess next we should sue Hersheys company for making all that chocolate we eat, and Brachs candy company, etc, etc.

I agree. the border has to be put somewhere and in this case i think the real issue is someplace else than in the burgers them selves. If a society goes to the point where people start suing food companies for making foods that when overconsumed make them fat..really,..looking from the outside..it seems a bit ridiculous. Where is the common sense? I have a feeling that many people really arent so much in to the 'is this morally or ethically' right to sell and market these burgers.. This is yet another good chance to make some money out of lawsuits..

Sometimes Im really surprised that some people think its morally and ethically wrong to market and sell burgers but at the same time these same people approve death penalty for instance, but thats another story.... go figure...

ARTelevision · 05-08-2003, 06:24 AM

Loki brings up an interesting point.
Personally I don't care what grounds are used for smashing the Junk Food Cartel. I'd be just as pleased if we forced them to obey the advertising laws to the letter.

I can see all of the obvious hot-button and knee-jerk reflexes that are touched when the issue of "personal responsibility" is raised. So pragmatically, it looks like its useless to attack the JFC (Junk Food Cartel) in ways that seem to obviate "personal responsibility".
(As if that shibboleth has a meaning in a totally manipulated society - but that's another issue).

In any event,
putting the screws to the Junk Food Pushers by slamming them for deceptive advertising and marketing floats my boat!

I'd love to see the stuff called what it is:

MacJunk, MacGarbage, MacPoison, False Happiness Meals, Crap Candy Bars, Cholesterol Chips, etc...

double · 05-08-2003, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
Sadly there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose parents are either too uninterested or too ignorant to teach their kids that McDonalds will use evey trick the book to get their dollar, and if that means pumping you full of sugar and fat, then so be it.

Those kids need someone big enough to take on McDonalds and look after their interests. That can either be the lawyers or the state. Saying blaming the kids for being too dumb or too lazy to act on their own is simply unfair, and will never solve the problem.

But that doesnt make the fundamental problem go away, does it? What then when McDonalds is defeted and another problem arises but the ignorant parents are still there..? I think the problem is with the parents. In my opinion a society should take well enough care of the parents so that the parents are strong enough to take care of their children...

blkdmnd · 05-08-2003, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
Sadly there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose parents are either too uninterested or too ignorant to teach their kids ...

There in my friend, lies the problem. You hit the proverbial "nail on the head".

I don't blame the kids for any of this. It's the fault of Mom and Dad. We need to teach better parenting skills or better birth control.

SecretMethod70 · 05-08-2003, 06:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by 4thTimeLucky
Wow, someone else who writes posts as long as mine. Even if it was pasted!

Facts
- Fast food in large quantities is bad for your health and seriously affects the length and quality of your life (they call it morbid obesity for a reason).
- Children are unable on their own to make balanced judgements about the immediate rewards of sugary/fatty foods versus the long term health risks.
- Many children do not have the parental guidance to make this decision for them.
- Fast food firms agressively target marketing at young children.
For more read Fast Food Nation

Conclusions
IF we do not want the next generation to suffer unecessarily and place a great burden upon the health care system THEN we must act.
There are two broad options:
A) The wait-and-sue
B) The preempt-and-regulate

For some reason America seems very keen on (A). From terrorists destroying skyscrapers to coffee that is too hot, the solution to the world's problems is deemed to be a market-based one: If the threat of suing is strong enough then people/organisations/firms will not do bad things.
This is flawed because (i) the market often fails (terrorist supporters will not be put off by law suits), (ii) money ends up being taken away from where it is needed (schools) and reallocated in a way that distorts markets, and (iii) places you on a slippery slope to such cases as uptight-smart-girl v. unlucky-school.
Despite all this I wonder sometimes whether there isn't a belief in some quarters that maybe we need no laws at all, so long as the threat of economic sanctions through litigation is strong enough.

The alternative, (B), is to allow the state to flex some muscle to protect your own children. And let me remind you how happy many were to see the state flex its muscles to help Iraq's children. Fast food joints are banned from aggresively targeting children and are forced to add health warnings to their products, similar to those on cigarrette packets, or invest in proper dietary education for consumers. No more sponsored schools. No more adverts during prime-child-time. No more Happy Meals. No more lies about the health effects of their food.

Profits are great. But not when they are gained at the expense of the state and the health of your children.

Very well thought out and written post. I too recommend the book Fast Food Nation to anyone interested in this topic. It's an excellent one.

I believe the greatest hope lies in Option B as you present it. I do believe in personal responsibility, but people aren't being given the proper tools to take that responsibility. Rather, children are manipulated into eating this junk food - children who have no concept 1) of eating healthy and 2) of why it's so important to eat healthy NOW rather than just when they're a "grown-up."

Force these companies to submit to advertising regulations like any other product which is harmful to one's health. Do not advertise to minors (yes, that means no more Happy Meals), include health warnings all over the menu and wrapping, and readily disclose all information concerning the grade of meat used, the percentage of burger that is what ingredient, and so forth. Print nutritional information on the wrappings for the food as well.

If it takes a lawsuit to get this to happen, so be it. I'd just as much rather see them just pass a law without bothering with the suit - I don't think there's anything that could be spun as unreasonable or unconstitutional in those demands except perhaps limiting them from advertising to children.

Macheath · 05-08-2003, 06:52 AM

I look at this and then I look at the sugar industry attacking the World Health Organization report on the negative affects of excessive dietary sugar.

These taken together make me start to see fast food as something of a corporate juggernaut laying waste to western food culture. To them, your diabetes would kinda just be another moneymaking opportunity for their friends in the pharmecuticals division.

I agree that there is a right to fight lawsuits over fast food; at the same time though people need to learn that there's more to food culture than school lunches and Big Macs.

What amazes me is that gourmets are now "fighting the power" through the "slow food movement". (www.slowfood.com).

gibber71 · 05-08-2003, 06:56 AM

Personally they can wipe every fast food place off the map as far as I'm concerned. I eat good food all the time and exercise.Some people enjoy healthy lifestyles, some don't. Obesity=laziness and you are what you eat.Eat crap and you're going to look and feel like crap. How much you want to bet that these fat fucks who are suing because they stuffed their faces with this garbage,when court recesses are in some fast food joint licking the grease of their fingers.

davidc209 · 05-08-2003, 02:15 PM

Can people FINALLY taking some freakin' responsibility for their own actions?! Jesus. I haven't been in a McDonalds or Burger King in over 3 years because I don't want that garbage in my body. I enjoy being lean and having a muscular physique.

Are people crazy??? Do they think that stuffing 1200 calorie burgers in their fatty bodies is going to make them anything BUT fat asses??

I don't understand the mentality of these people who eat this crap for years on end and then have the nerves to SUE the restaurants because one day they look in the mirror and realize they are a blob of fat. Can anyone explain this mentality???

krwlz · 05-08-2003, 06:16 PM

this is fucking stupid, peoples self control issues are not the fast food restaurants problem or fault, if you kno you shouldnt eat the buger nad you do anyway, you deserve what you get, same with cigerates for that matter (tho getting commercials off the air was a good thing, but burgers do not single out a generation)

Fearless_Hyena · 05-08-2003, 06:42 PM

OK, if you're like me this will make you wanna stop eating at McDonalds....

My senior year I interviewed with a company called IFF -- International Fragrances and Flavors. Now this is a company with almost no PR or advertising for the products they produce. They dont need it, and they probably don't want it. And they're still doing well! The guy i talked to told me they make the base fragrances for Estee Lauder.

Apparently they also make the "chicken flavor" in Chicken McNuggets, and the "hamburger flavor" for Mcdonalds hamburgers.

ISNT THAT GROSS AS SHIT?!?! I mean I already knew that this junk food was garbage, but that's just NASTY!!!

You gotta believe that they aren't the only ones doin that, either...eurgh

krwlz · 05-08-2003, 07:01 PM

thats fucked up man, reinforces my like for burger king...but then again, fuck it, im sure ive eaten worse

sixate · 05-08-2003, 07:03 PM

<center>NEWSFLASH

Burgers don't cause obesity. Lazy people with no will power to eat healthy and work out cause obesity! I don't feel sorry for anyone who gains a ton of weight from eating shitty food.</center>

How about if I eat like shit, stop working out, and gain 150 lbs and blame a stupid ass company. Take responsibility for your own actions. You have nobody to blame unless you have a medical condition. I wish I could kill every person who sues fast food restaurants for being overweight. What's next? Are we gonna see people sue grocery stores for selling about a million more products that can make me gain weight that fast food joints don't have. Am I the only person that realizes I can buy more junkfood at a fucking grocery store than at Burger King?!?! I'll go shut the hell up now. I can go on about this for hours!

4thTimeLucky · 05-09-2003, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fearless_Hyena
OK, if you're like me this will make you wanna stop eating at McDonalds....

My senior year I interviewed with a company called IFF -- International Fragrances and Flavors. Now this is a company with almost no PR or advertising for the products they produce. They dont need it, and they probably don't want it. And they're still doing well! The guy i talked to told me they make the base fragrances for Estee Lauder.

Apparently they also make the "chicken flavor" in Chicken McNuggets, and the "hamburger flavor" for Mcdonalds hamburgers.

ISNT THAT GROSS AS SHIT?!?! I mean I already knew that this junk food was garbage, but that's just NASTY!!!

You gotta believe that they aren't the only ones doin that, either...eurgh

Why do you find this surprising? Almost every food product in a fast food restaurant is so processed that it has no remaining flavour. The average burger can have the meat from thousands of cows in it - tha isn't good for taste preservation! So then they have to put all the 'flavour' back in.
In fact chatting to the IFF people you would have probably found that they saw their work as being like artists, with a blank canvases to work upon. If they wanted to, they could make the fries taste like burgers, the burgers taste like strawberry thickshake or the thickshake taste like chicken nuggets. Its all processed pap with additives.

Sixate
Why do I feel I can always rely on you to resolve the debate with big bold fonts and a death threat

This is kids we're talking about. They have as much idea of the bad effects of this food as the average joe did about cigarrettes a few decades ago. The things they trust the most - TV and schools - encourage them to eat the stuff with messages of spritely, slim, happy families having a hearty lunch. They are being deliberately lied to by very smart, sophisticated companies. They become hooked on the image, the gaeity, the cheapness and the addictive sugar and fat content of these products and no one tells them that they are slowly destroying their bodies. They don't have a clue about E numbers, saturated fats or cholesterol. They only know that it tastes good and no-one has told them to stop.

05-08-2003, 04:18 AM	#1 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Pushing Junk Food is OK or Not? Discuss... Lawyers plan new fast food assault from Netscape News CHICAGO (Reuters) - Fast food purveyors McDonald's and Burger King are about to be hit -- again -- with a slew of claims that their burgers and fries cause obesity, and some critics say they even feed an addiction. Litigators want to charge companies in the business of selling burgers with contributing to the rising obesity rate in the United States. The National Restaurant Association, which represents McDonald's and some 870,000 other U.S. restaurants, calls the claims "frivolous," and "twisted and tortuous." In February, a federal court threw out a lawsuit making similar claims. But attorney John Banzhaf, whose 1970s crusades against the tobacco industry helped get cigarette commercials off the air, is pushing ahead. He plans to deliver a letter stating his claims to the restaurant group and to debate them on Thursday with its president at Washington's National Press Club. "It would be a precursor to a legal action or suit," said Banzhaf, a law professor at George Washington University. Lawyer Richard Daynard, founder of the Tobacco Products Liability Project, is part of a group hosting a June conference in Boston with Tufts School of Medicine to discuss legal approaches to counter obesity. The attorneys draw parallels to arguments that helped states win more than $200 billion in a 1998 settlement against cigarette manufacturers. "Adults going in and pigging out on hamburgers is not going to go anywhere," said Washington-based attorney John Coale, one of the chief architects of the tobacco master settlement who has also taken on gun makers on behalf of several cities. "When the public sees the extent of targeting kids for all these fast foods, then (litigation) is going to get some traction," he said. Banzhaf and others claim that like cigarette makers, fast-food chains have withheld information about properties he said make their food addictive. His letter cites research, recently summarised in New Scientist magazine, suggesting that at least some fast foods, especially those high in fat and sugar, can cause chemical changes in the brain the same way as nicotine and heroin. "(T)he public is much less aware of the addictive-like effects of many fast foods than they are of the widely publicised addictive nature of nicotine in cigarettes," Banzhaf wrote in the letter, obtained by Reuters. McDonald's said in a statement it makes nutritional information available to consumers. INDIVIDUAL CHOICE The Oak Brook, Illinois, company said leading experts and U.S. regulators "have clearly stated that weight issues are all about the totality of an individual's daily choices about exercise, sedentary lifestyle, diet and everything else involved in personal decision making." Burger King deferred comment to the restaurant group. "Dietitians will tell you that all foods can fit into a diet," Steven Anderson, president of the group, said. "Anything that makes a connection with tobacco, which does have addictive properties, to food, is a twisted and tortuous maze." Some legal experts who have studied tobacco law say they think similarities between anti-cigarette legislation and anti-obesity claims are a stretch and smell of legal opportunism at a time when McDonald's and other fast-food companies are struggling financially. "The facts are that high fat, high calorie food is not good for you. It would be preposterous to suggest that's any revelation," said Harlan Loeb, a Northwestern University law professor who has studied tobacco law. "Plaintiffs lawyers know full well they (fast-food companies) can ill afford to be dragged through protracted, high-profile lawsuits." But those crafting anti-obesity claims said the risks to the public are not so obvious, and they are pushing for laws requiring fast-food chains to disclose calories and fat on foods like Big Macs, preferably through labelling. Banzhaf wants warning notices, not unlike those on cigarettes. And while the public may have difficulty swallowing claims that people can blame obesity on a specific company or food, the issue is gaining ground. The first major obesity case, filed on behalf of two teenage girls against McDonald's, has been resubmitted to a Manhattan federal court. Judge Robert Sweet dismissed the original suit but suggested the methods McDonald's uses to process its food could make it more dangerous than customers have reason to expect. .............. As you know, I'm OK with prosecuting the junk food cartel and I don't think there exists a "right" to promote dangerous and potentially addictive "food" to minors. As I know, most people disagree with my position on grounds that invariably invoke the terms, "frivolous lawsuits" and "personal responsibility". __________________ create evolution

05-08-2003, 04:21 AM	#2 (permalink)
Daval Junkie Location: The True North Strong and Free!	I think people suing fast food companies for their own obesity is ridiculous. People should be personaly responsible for their own actions/consequences and stop trying to take it out on corporate america. Only in the USA would you see such a lawsuit - and with a good chance of winning too. __________________ "It is impossible to obtain a conviction for sodomy from an English jury. Half of them don't believe that it can physically be done, and the other half are doing it." Winston Churchill

05-08-2003, 04:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	Wow, someone else who writes posts as long as mine. Even if it was pasted! Facts - Fast food in large quantities is bad for your health and seriously affects the length and quality of your life (they call it morbid obesity for a reason). - Children are unable on their own to make balanced judgements about the immediate rewards of sugary/fatty foods versus the long term health risks. - Many children do not have the parental guidance to make this decision for them. - Fast food firms agressively target marketing at young children. For more read Fast Food Nation Conclusions IF we do not want the next generation to suffer unecessarily and place a great burden upon the health care system THEN we must act. There are two broad options: A) The wait-and-sue B) The preempt-and-regulate For some reason America seems very keen on (A). From terrorists destroying skyscrapers to coffee that is too hot, the solution to the world's problems is deemed to be a market-based one: If the threat of suing is strong enough then people/organisations/firms will not do bad things. This is flawed because (i) the market often fails (terrorist supporters will not be put off by law suits), (ii) money ends up being taken away from where it is needed (schools) and reallocated in a way that distorts markets, and (iii) places you on a slippery slope to such cases as uptight-smart-girl v. unlucky-school. Despite all this I wonder sometimes whether there isn't a belief in some quarters that maybe we need no laws at all, so long as the threat of economic sanctions through litigation is strong enough. The alternative, (B), is to allow the state to flex some muscle to protect your own children. And let me remind you how happy many were to see the state flex its muscles to help Iraq's children. Fast food joints are banned from aggresively targeting children and are forced to add health warnings to their products, similar to those on cigarrette packets, or invest in proper dietary education for consumers. No more sponsored schools. No more adverts during prime-child-time. No more Happy Meals. No more lies about the health effects of their food. Profits are great. But not when they are gained at the expense of the state and the health of your children. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

05-08-2003, 05:45 AM	#5 (permalink)
spectre Junkie	I love junk food as much as much as anyone, but if someone can't control themselves from eating, lawsuits shouldn't be involved. I just got over a bout with pancreatitis. They put you on an extremely low fat diet afterwards. That's not easy, but I managed to stay away from the junk food. Sadly, this is the trend, passing the blame onto others and making money off of it. __________________ "Fuck these chains No goddamn slave I will be different" ~ Machine Head

05-08-2003, 05:50 AM	#6 (permalink)
hrdwareguy "Officer, I was in fear for my life" Location: Oklahoma City	What ever happend to personal responsibility? I guess next we should sue Hersheys company for making all that chocolate we eat, and Brachs candy company, etc, etc. __________________ Gun Control is hitting what you aim at Aim for the TFP, Donate Today

05-08-2003, 06:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
BoCo Fear the bunny Location: Hanging off the tip of the Right Wing	STUPID BULLSHIT!!! Dude, I'm in great shape because I work out and bike all the damn time. Still, that doesn't mean I don't occasionally hit one of these cheap, greasy, discusting fast food places from time to time. The difference between me and all these assholes who would like to sue the fast food corporations are 1) I take responsibility for my own actions; 2) I don't allow myself to get 3 Super-size fries and an Oreo McFlurry for dessert (in other words, I can control myself); and 3) I get some fucking exercise! I recently started biking with a dude in his mid-30s who won't say no to any food at all, but this guy is in excellent shape--he even gives me a challenge on all but the biggest hills. The reason he's in such great shape (and even competes in tri-athalons) is because he isn't sedentary. That's really the answer the judges need to give to any plaintiff who tries to sue a company who serves them food: get your fat, lazy ass up, go outside, and get some fucking exercise! __________________ Activism is a way for useless people to feel important.

05-08-2003, 06:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
Loki Psycho Location: Drifting.	im not really sure about this. On one side, no-one is pushing you to eat junk food...but on the other side, places like McDonalds continuously advertise thier food image as healthy and "fun", anyway, which is just plain misleading. Granted, it doesnt exactly take rocket science to figure out that a Big Mac, large fries and a large coke is not healthy for you, but a lawsuit on this is no less ridiculous than people suing supermarkets because they fell on thier floor, or people suing thier neighbour because thier kid jumped the fence into the neighbours yard and ate some poisonous leaves. (personally i think the world would be a McHappier place without McDonalds anyway...) Last edited by Loki; 05-08-2003 at 06:21 AM..

05-08-2003, 06:10 AM	#10 (permalink)
blkdmnd Addict	We need to teach people to be responsible for themselves and quit relying on the government and the courts to take care of their own. I want less government involvement, not more. As for the kids, while this food is certainly not in their best health interest, it's the parents that need to step up to the plate (no pun intended), and take responsibility for what the kids eat. Children who fall victim to the ad campaigns put out by fast food chains, are really the fault of the parents. Teach them some discipline, some backbone and self respect! Better yet, get their fat adolescent asses out from in front of the TV, so they don't get "victimized" by some Madison Ave. marketing wiz. They could certainly use the exercise. __________________ I blow my nose at you. Now go away before I taunt you a second time.

05-08-2003, 06:19 AM	#11 (permalink)
4thTimeLucky Psycho Location: 4th has left the building - goodbye folks	Sadly there are hundreds of thousands of kids whose parents are either too uninterested or too ignorant to teach their kids that McDonalds will use evey trick the book to get their dollar, and if that means pumping you full of sugar and fat, then so be it. Those kids need someone big enough to take on McDonalds and look after their interests. That can either be the lawyers or the state. Saying blaming the kids for being too dumb or too lazy to act on their own is simply unfair, and will never solve the problem. __________________ I've been 4thTimeLucky, you've been great. Goodnight and God bless!

05-08-2003, 06:24 AM	#13 (permalink)
ARTelevision I change Location: USA	Loki brings up an interesting point. Personally I don't care what grounds are used for smashing the Junk Food Cartel. I'd be just as pleased if we forced them to obey the advertising laws to the letter. I can see all of the obvious hot-button and knee-jerk reflexes that are touched when the issue of "personal responsibility" is raised. So pragmatically, it looks like its useless to attack the JFC (Junk Food Cartel) in ways that seem to obviate "personal responsibility". (As if that shibboleth has a meaning in a totally manipulated society - but that's another issue). In any event, putting the screws to the Junk Food Pushers by slamming them for deceptive advertising and marketing floats my boat! I'd love to see the stuff called what it is: MacJunk, MacGarbage, MacPoison, False Happiness Meals, Crap Candy Bars, Cholesterol Chips, etc... __________________ create evolution

05-08-2003, 06:52 AM	#17 (permalink)
Macheath Junkie Location: Sydney, Australia	I look at this and then I look at the sugar industry attacking the World Health Organization report on the negative affects of excessive dietary sugar. These taken together make me start to see fast food as something of a corporate juggernaut laying waste to western food culture. To them, your diabetes would kinda just be another moneymaking opportunity for their friends in the pharmecuticals division. I agree that there is a right to fight lawsuits over fast food; at the same time though people need to learn that there's more to food culture than school lunches and Big Macs. What amazes me is that gourmets are now "fighting the power" through the "slow food movement". (www.slowfood.com).

05-08-2003, 06:56 AM	#18 (permalink)
gibber71 Loser	Personally they can wipe every fast food place off the map as far as I'm concerned. I eat good food all the time and exercise.Some people enjoy healthy lifestyles, some don't. Obesity=laziness and you are what you eat.Eat crap and you're going to look and feel like crap. How much you want to bet that these fat fucks who are suing because they stuffed their faces with this garbage,when court recesses are in some fast food joint licking the grease of their fingers.

05-08-2003, 02:15 PM	#19 (permalink)
davidc209 Tilted Location: Miami, FL	Can people FINALLY taking some freakin' responsibility for their own actions?! Jesus. I haven't been in a McDonalds or Burger King in over 3 years because I don't want that garbage in my body. I enjoy being lean and having a muscular physique. Are people crazy??? Do they think that stuffing 1200 calorie burgers in their fatty bodies is going to make them anything BUT fat asses?? I don't understand the mentality of these people who eat this crap for years on end and then have the nerves to SUE the restaurants because one day they look in the mirror and realize they are a blob of fat. Can anyone explain this mentality???

05-08-2003, 06:16 PM	#20 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	this is fucking stupid, peoples self control issues are not the fast food restaurants problem or fault, if you kno you shouldnt eat the buger nad you do anyway, you deserve what you get, same with cigerates for that matter (tho getting commercials off the air was a good thing, but burgers do not single out a generation)

05-08-2003, 06:42 PM	#21 (permalink)
Fearless_Hyena Hello, good evening, and bollocks. Location: near DC	OK, if you're like me this will make you wanna stop eating at McDonalds.... My senior year I interviewed with a company called IFF -- International Fragrances and Flavors. Now this is a company with almost no PR or advertising for the products they produce. They dont need it, and they probably don't want it. And they're still doing well! The guy i talked to told me they make the base fragrances for Estee Lauder. Apparently they also make the "chicken flavor" in Chicken McNuggets, and the "hamburger flavor" for Mcdonalds hamburgers. ISNT THAT GROSS AS SHIT?!?! I mean I already knew that this junk food was garbage, but that's just NASTY!!! You gotta believe that they aren't the only ones doin that, either...eurgh

05-08-2003, 07:01 PM	#22 (permalink)
krwlz Fledgling Dead Head Location: Clarkson U.	thats fucked up man, reinforces my like for burger king...but then again, fuck it, im sure ive eaten worse

05-08-2003, 07:03 PM	#23 (permalink)
sixate Registered User Location: Somewhere in Ohio	<center>NEWSFLASH Burgers don't cause obesity. Lazy people with no will power to eat healthy and work out cause obesity! I don't feel sorry for anyone who gains a ton of weight from eating shitty food.</center> How about if I eat like shit, stop working out, and gain 150 lbs and blame a stupid ass company. Take responsibility for your own actions. You have nobody to blame unless you have a medical condition. I wish I could kill every person who sues fast food restaurants for being overweight. What's next? Are we gonna see people sue grocery stores for selling about a million more products that can make me gain weight that fast food joints don't have. Am I the only person that realizes I can buy more junkfood at a fucking grocery store than at Burger King?!?! I'll go shut the hell up now. I can go on about this for hours! Last edited by sixate; 05-08-2003 at 07:54 PM..