lurkette

This is not nearly as juicy as the subject head would suggest. Sorry!

I have a friend who's in law school. He is looking for a church to go to so he can make connections for future business. He's asking us to figure out which church would have the richest clients.

Now, if he were looking for a church because he wanted to start going to church, and just incidentally considering which church might be good for business, that'd be one thing. But he's just looking to use this as a career ladder, which seems to me to be a bit mercenary and unethical - pretending to be there for the god stuff when you're really just scoping out clients.

Is he a bit of a whore, or am I being overly-idealistic?

P.S. He also wants ratbastid to teach him to play golf as a career-builder, but that seems okay to me - you're not pretending to play golf the way you're pretending to believe in god. Different or not?

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"If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing."

- Anatole France

Cicero

Total whore, and the best way to find a rich congregation is to look for the fanciest church, then cruise up and down the parkinglot durring services and make an inventory of all the fancy cars. The more expensive cars, the better potential for clients. And don't make the assumption that old Detroit steel (like cadilacs and lincolns) mean big money. Shoot higher for bavarian cars.

uncle phil

he's a salesman, marketing his goods and learning his trade...

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- Robert S. McNamara
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"We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches...
We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles."
- Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message"
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never wrestle with a pig.
you both get dirty;
the pig likes it.

SiN

Yes, and Yes.

I dunno, I see nothing wrong with finding and utilising advantages.
There is a line to not cross, where it becomes taking advantage of other individuals...and one needs to understand the difference.

But in this case, I think it's pretty harmless.

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qtpye4u84

I don't think thats a good idea to go to a church to find ppl.
He is being kinda sneaky, hes not sleeping with every body in the town.
Tell him to try the casinos!!!!!!
There a great place to meet and talk to ppl like at the poker tables or what not.

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The QTpie

sailor

Whore.

Sorry to be so blunt, but...

Whore.

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"Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws."
--Plato

Phaenx

Can Ratbastid teach me how to play golf? I'm horrible.

As for your friend, some people go to church to make friends, others because they like the music or because they just want to get out. His reason's aren't much different and most christians (besides the wierd crazy ones, (old people (score, 3 parenthesis))) are happy to have you there. He doesn't mind, noone else will mind, the bible says god doesn't mind.

I think he's safe from smiting.

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"I went shopping last night at like 1am. The place was empty and this old woman just making polite conversation said to me, 'where is everyone??' I replied, 'In bed, same place you and I should be!' Took me ten minutes to figure out why she gave me a dirty look." --Some guy

Astrocloud

It's not the denomination per se -it's the location. Find a good church with nice architecture and in a good location. Believe it or not many people go to church for other reasons than belonging to a faith.

Destrox

Sounds like he's doing a good job of his job.

Prostitute in terms of money, sure. I wouldnt hold it against him/her.

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You bore me.... next.

ARTelevision

I'm not sure any one of us is really in a position to cast the first stone in situations like this.

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create evolution

ratbastid

I can teach you how not to break 100 if you'd like. That's really my area of expertise, when it comes to golf.

HamiC

I enjoy golf on its own and use it quite often for business interactions. Here are some words of wisdom from my grandfather.....

"The only bad golfer is a slow golfer."

As long as you have a good time, keep your cool, observe proper golf etiquette, and keep up the pace, nobody cares what -- or how poorly -- you shoot.


....and yes, joining a church to find clients makes one a whore.

Amethyst

I agree very much. And I think that it is wrong.

Amethyst

ARTelevision

What do you mean by this?

ARTelevision

I'm not sure any of us is in a position to judge someone else.

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create evolution

Amethyst

You are very right ARTelevision thanks for reminding me.

fhqwhgads

Yes, he's a whore...

(then again, I didn't get past the part where she said he was in law school)

Peetster

There was this guy, He was raised as a Jew. His Dad fixed shoes. They lived in Germany.

His Dad decided to move to a better shoe place.

This new place was really pro-whatever, so Dad decided to become whatever. The family became whateverites. They walked the walk and all. This guy seriously questioned the move. He wanted to know why the family abandoned their core beliefs. His Dad had no answer.

The guy here is Adolf Hitler.

Use religion as a tool to connect, and you will connect on the wrong level.

Cynthetiq

why not. if by accident he actually gets a message into his head... that's not a bad thing.

so long as he's not disrupting the congregation it shouldn't be a bad thing. We have people who come here to network... what difference is it if the community is real or "internet"?

so long as the rules are followed, he will make his own reputuation which will speak for itself.

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k1ng

Wait, is he *only* going to church to network with people? Or has he decided to go to church anyways and is looking for a church with richer people?

If he's not lying to these people and trying to take advantage of people or handing out resumes or business cards to everyone he meets, I don't really see a problem here.

My school offers a Business Golf course that teaches a person basic golf skills and etiquette, but mainly focus's on conducting business deals/negotiations, etc.. If ratbastid didnt want to teach him golf, he could suggest a similar class

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"Delight in excellence is easily confused with snobbery by the ignorant." -Joseph Epstein

Yakk

He's a whore and he's being socially dishonest/manipulative, but not in an uncommon way. People do alot of lightly psychopathic things when they are trying to advance their "careers" or work on their "business" (or get a "date", heh) : in North American society it is viewed as normal, so other than a bit of indignation from people if he ever explains why he is acting the way he is, he shouldn't have many problems.

Having high ideals that you try to reach is a good thing. Failing to reach them is expected. Being indignant just because someone else fails to measure up to your own ideals is counter productive.

Practically, you should advise him that telling others about such a secret (that he only goes to church in order to pick up hot ch^H^H^H clients) could lead to it getting out, which could get in the way of future career choices.

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Last edited by JHVH : 10-29-4004 BC at 09:00 PM. Reason: Time for a rest.

rolpatatsea

People go into churches all the time with ideas other than worship or fellowship. Whore? maybe. Honest not at all.

Hrothgar

forget church go to a synagogue heck my lawyer and doctor are jewish and my accountant and so on

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The fortunes of war favored Hrothgar.

Nisses

Hrothgar: all the more reason to go to church, all the synagogues are taken

I would say he's a whore on that level, but it's gonna take a lot of whoring himself out like this to get started I'm afraid. You need relations, connections, a social network if you're ever gonna start up a successful lawyer out of yourself.

So you're being too idealistic and he's a whore

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Moderation should be moderately moderated.

Jaca

wait, isn't that called "networking"?

maleficent

It sounds like smart networking to me.

I belonged to the University Club in NYC,not because I enjoyed the people's company, or the University Club had so much to offer, it was all about networking.

Church, especially those with rich parishoners, is a good a place as any. He's not the one on the pulpit doing the preaching, so who's he really hurting?

The last parish I belonged to, most folks went, not to hear the word of God, but to check out what everyone else was wearing, and to gossip about who wasn't there, plus it was a good excuse to go to brunch afterwards.

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thespian86

Well the thing about that is, That guy should be good enough not to pretend to believe in god to make money.

When I think of the saying "The Man", I think of him, the only person I've ever heard of that would pretend to have faith in something so huge just to make some money.

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EX: uh...
ME: So, not much.

final_identity

When has church ever been used for any other purpose than worldly gain?

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The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently. Friedrich Nietzsche

maleficent

Has he actually said that he doesn't believe in God?

Pretending to play golf is tough, that requires time, lessons and devotion to the game to get it to the point where you'd want to take the game out for networking events. Church is much easier.

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billege

What, you think most people go to church because they belive?

Many people go becuase their parents made them, so they make their kids go too.

Many people go for the social structure.

Many people go for the built in purpose in life, it's easier than finding one one their own.

Many people go for the built in rule set, IE: do this and god will love you. That's easier than deciding what right and wrong are by one's self. Don't have to make those pesky decisions when your religion will do it for you.

My point is this: people go to church for a lot of reasons. Not everyone even knows why they really go. Your friend just said it out loud.

Is your friend trying to take advantage of a pre-arranged social situation? Yes.
But so are the old ladies that go for the church social after mass.

Does this make him a whore? I agree with ART; I'm not qualified to say so.

Even if one is going to judge this plan of his as a bad one, some would say that maybe church will rub off on him.

Who's to say? Maybe God's plan is to call him to church because one of his flock needs legal services and He's guiding your friend to him. Who's to say that's not it?

Who's to say that your friend might not get into some pro-bono stuff with the church just to "look good," and actually end up doing some REAL good. Even accedentally, he might learn something that'll change his life.

Thing is, you never know.

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I can sum up the clash of religion in one sentence:
"My Invisible Friend is better than your Invisible Friend."

tisonlyi

Your and our judgements are facile and meaningless.

Tell the man your concerns, if he still sees no incongruity, then it's all good.

It's _his_ 'soul', afterall... So where do your judgements fit in?

__________________
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RoboBlaster

Jesus got pissed off and tore through the temple because it was being used for business. Sort of a statement about the renunciation of worldly gain in favor of spiritual gain. That said, the Church seems to disregard this ideal anyway. So, I doubt many of the people would be offended if they found out, especially in a rich congregation.

bermuDa

well, he is going to law school...

I'd say he's learning fast.

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I am the very model of a moderator gentleman.

Mondak

Ah - most of the people at the church are just lambs waiting for the slaughter anyway. They will be gettting screwed by the church, why not get screwed by this guy at the same time. What better place to find victims than a church? I don't think I can think of a single better place other than setting up a tent outside the ER.

On the other hand, if he figures that he will have to spend XXX amount of time in a church environment anyway and assumng spiritual fufillment is static across all churches, then why not pick one where you can maybe make some good clients in the process.

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All truth passes through three stages:
First it is ridiculed
Second, it is violently opposed and
Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

ARTHUR SCHOPENHAUER (1788-1860)

H12

I gotta agree with the first part; my parents made a deal with me when I was a kid that I'd get to rent a video game for every Sunday I'd go to church and stay awake. I believe in God and I'm a good person, but I'm not a real church-goer.

I agree with the second part, too. I think his reasoning for going to church for clients is pretty piss-poor, but nobody said he can't pick up on something that may prove to be more important to him in the long run.

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"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act, but a habit."
--Aristotle

Blackthorn

Perhaps he is planning on donating more than 10% of his income to the church where he makes his contacts? Hmmm...seems a bit fishy but he's really only being honest about it.

People use social organizations every day to make connections for more than social reasons. Church to most people is more than a social organization but in this case that what he's making it out to be.

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What are you willing to give up in order to get what you want?

BonesCPA

That's all I needed to hear. He is going to be a liar (oops - lawyer), that sorta says it all. Do I agree with his tactics morally, no. As a business person, I guess it is an interesting idea. If you are not going to believe/follow any particular religion, might as well make it work for you in whatever way you can.

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Back into hibernation.

Chiuey

I woul dhave to say yes, he is a whore. But I fail to see how this would comes as a shock to any one. C'mon, the guy's in "Law School". What did you expect, a saint?

tecoyah

Good point, but a bit all encompassing. The church has many uses but finance has become primary to the overall function.
Your friend is pretty much doing what most church goers do, in one way or another, no big deal.

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Holding onto anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned. - Buddha

paddyjoe

I'd be very suprised if he were the first one in there with this idea.