A simple legal question - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

kimmytr · 01-31-2004, 01:48 PM

Hi, everybody

Here is the scenerio : A couple bought a brand new house. Six months after moving in, the marriage fell apart, the husband got kicked out ( restraint order ). Before he left, he threated his wife that he will burn the house down. Sure enough, a couple of week later, it burned down! Fire marshalls concluded that it is an arson. The wife never mentioned her husband's threat to the authority. The Husband, on the other hand, had an iron clad alibi (according to the Police department ). The investigation ran to a dead end and nobody is charged for the crime. ( By the way, the wife is at her workplace during the fire ).
My question is: Does the insurance company have to pay them ( about $500,000) knowing full well that this is an arson even though nobody got caught???

jwells777 · 01-31-2004, 03:29 PM

Most likely that would depend on the terms of the insurance. When you sign the insurance contract, it lays out very specifically what is covered and what is not. I would imagine that the insurance company would cover the arson if it was not committed by the occupants. If it cannot be proven that the occupants are guilty, then they are in fact innocent with respect to our legal system and I would expect the insurance company should have to pay. (Note that I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed as legal advice. Just an opinion.)

Psivage · 01-31-2004, 06:36 PM

sometimes the insurance company investiages on their own and if they turn up information that they suspect it was the wife or the husband they could, extend the investiage until they know for sure either way and delay payments that way.

bobson · 01-31-2004, 06:51 PM

it entirely depends on the insurance policy and its terms regarding -

A) Arson
B) Police vs. Internal Investigations

Also, was the policy under his name, her name or joint? If under his or joint, then if the internal insurance investigation concluded he was responsible, most likely no payment. If under her name, him being responsible could be irrelevant.

kimmytr · 01-31-2004, 07:07 PM

Bobson, the policy in the both name. They've already concluded that he cannot commit the act ( He stayed in a motel, and he called and talked to his teenager daughter just before she left the house the fire started, and phone record proved that ).
So, you are saying there is easy answer, right?

MSD · 01-31-2004, 09:26 PM

They get the insurance money unless they got royally fucked over on the terms of the policy.

Also, let us know if they figure out who he had do it. You have me wondering.

Psivage · 02-01-2004, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by kimmytr
Bobson, the policy in the both name. They've already concluded that he cannot commit the act ( He stayed in a motel, and he called and talked to his teenager daughter just before she left the house the fire started, and phone record proved that ).
So, you are saying there is easy answer, right?

He could of hired somebody to do it, and with him on the phone is a good alibi.

tenchi069 · 02-01-2004, 09:32 AM

If the arsonist is a beneficiary of the policy then the insurance company will not pay.

Hypothetical situation. Guy and his gf break up, he is on the policy, she is not. She gets upset and trashes his car. The insurance company will cover it.

Hypo Sit #2. Man and Wife have a car, brand new sports car, "his" for all intents and purposes. He cheats on his wife, and she smashes his car. She can benefit from the insurance since the policy is in her name as well and the insurance company won't pay.

Bivens · 02-01-2004, 05:30 PM

1) Contact an attorney to schedule an appointment.

2) Don't ask for legal advice on an Internet forum. I know you want a general idea, but all we can do is just say "well this happened to us and we got this and yeah"

TALK TO AN ATTORNEY

skier · 02-01-2004, 06:30 PM

I suspect the wife.

kimmytr · 02-01-2004, 07:24 PM

Skier, it won't be the wife.
She was at work, there are hundreds people vowed for her

FleaCircus · 02-01-2004, 08:42 PM

It was the butler, in the conservatory, with the candlestick.

Crack · 02-01-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by FleaCircus
It was the butler, in the conservatory, with the candlestick.

Mr. Green...not the butler, the butler is always the fall guy for everything lately...

skysooner · 02-02-2004, 08:08 AM

My guess is the insurance company will investigate and could withhold payment just on suspicion. It would then be up to the couple to fight them in court to get payment. This could turn out to be a big mess.

spiderman · 02-02-2004, 08:23 AM

Seems like most home insurance policies won't pay if arson is involved at all. It may be up to the victim to sue the arsonist to get compensation.

just a guess.

raeanna74 · 02-02-2004, 11:59 AM

A kid we knew got caught setting fire to a friends trailer so that they could collect the insurance money. They had promised to pay him a significant amount when they got the insurance money. He got caught - they both got jailed. No one got any money.

Even if the husband or wife paid someone to do it if it can be proven then it's likely no one will get any money.

Maybe it was the daughter?

TNJ4555 · 02-02-2004, 03:03 PM

In my 49 years (13 as a small factory owner) one thing I have learned is true:

Don't take legal advise from your buddy unless your buddy is an attorney! Spend the dough, hire a lawyer.

Fire · 02-02-2004, 03:08 PM

Lawyer-
the only way to go in this case- laws vary by state, and policy-

otherwise you will get fucked (and not in a good way)

kimmytr · 02-02-2004, 10:40 PM

Did somebody mention the daughter? well, actually, the police were looking at her right away (after all, she was the last person to leave the house) but that is going nowhere.
As far as lawyers, she talked to a few.
This the best deal she come off with: $8,000 retaining fee, 40% of what she is going to receive from the insurance. Let's suppose she'll get what she wants: $500,000 minus 40% will leave her with $300,000, split that with her soon- to- be divorced husband, she'll about $150,000. (Not much consider she'd been working and saving all her life, she is in her '50)
Isn't there anything spelling Black and White: Arson, Nobody charged, Insurance pay ( Yes, No)

Cynthetiq · 02-03-2004, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kimmytr
Did somebody mention the daughter? well, actually, the police were looking at her right away (after all, she was the last person to leave the house) but that is going nowhere.
As far as lawyers, she talked to a few.
This the best deal she come off with: $8,000 retaining fee, 40% of what she is going to receive from the insurance. Let's suppose she'll get what she wants: $500,000 minus 40% will leave her with $300,000, split that with her soon- to- be divorced husband, she'll about $150,000. (Not much consider she'd been working and saving all her life, she is in her '50)
Isn't there anything spelling Black and White: Arson, Nobody charged, Insurance pay ( Yes, No)

life is life there is nothing that is black and white, that's why judges are there to help decide the grey areas.

IMHO insurance companies will do like all companies and refuse or drag feet to pay based on the fact that a crime caused the loss. Shop for other lawyers, contact the state bar and find one that isn't so expensive.

01-31-2004, 01:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
kimmytr Upright	A simple legal question Hi, everybody Here is the scenerio : A couple bought a brand new house. Six months after moving in, the marriage fell apart, the husband got kicked out ( restraint order ). Before he left, he threated his wife that he will burn the house down. Sure enough, a couple of week later, it burned down! Fire marshalls concluded that it is an arson. The wife never mentioned her husband's threat to the authority. The Husband, on the other hand, had an iron clad alibi (according to the Police department ). The investigation ran to a dead end and nobody is charged for the crime. ( By the way, the wife is at her workplace during the fire ). My question is: Does the insurance company have to pay them ( about $500,000) knowing full well that this is an arson even though nobody got caught???

02-01-2004, 09:32 AM	#8 (permalink)
tenchi069 Lost Location: One step closer to the padded cell...	If the arsonist is a beneficiary of the policy then the insurance company will not pay. Hypothetical situation. Guy and his gf break up, he is on the policy, she is not. She gets upset and trashes his car. The insurance company will cover it. Hypo Sit #2. Man and Wife have a car, brand new sports car, "his" for all intents and purposes. He cheats on his wife, and she smashes his car. She can benefit from the insurance since the policy is in her name as well and the insurance company won't pay. __________________ ERROR- PLBSAK Problem Lies Between Seat and Keyboard.

02-01-2004, 06:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
skier Rawr! Location: Edmontania	I suspect the wife. __________________ "Asking a bomb squad if an old bomb is still "real" is not the best thing to do if you want to save it." - denim

02-01-2004, 08:42 PM	#12 (permalink)
FleaCircus Insane Location: Denver, CO	It was the butler, in the conservatory, with the candlestick. __________________ "We must have waffles. We must all have waffles, forthwith. Oh, we must think. We must all have waffles and think, each and every one of us to the very best of his ability." -- Professor Goldthwait Higginson Dorr, Ph.D.

02-02-2004, 08:23 AM	#15 (permalink)
spiderman Rebourne - God, I love life, so, thanks! Location: Up your nose with a rubber hose	Seems like most home insurance policies won't pay if arson is involved at all. It may be up to the victim to sue the arsonist to get compensation. just a guess. __________________ Sell crazy someplace else, we're all stocked up here.

01-31-2004, 03:29 PM	#2 (permalink)
jwells777 Tilted	Most likely that would depend on the terms of the insurance. When you sign the insurance contract, it lays out very specifically what is covered and what is not. I would imagine that the insurance company would cover the arson if it was not committed by the occupants. If it cannot be proven that the occupants are guilty, then they are in fact innocent with respect to our legal system and I would expect the insurance company should have to pay. (Note that I am not a lawyer and this should not be construed as legal advice. Just an opinion.)

01-31-2004, 06:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
Psivage Psycho	sometimes the insurance company investiages on their own and if they turn up information that they suspect it was the wife or the husband they could, extend the investiage until they know for sure either way and delay payments that way.

01-31-2004, 06:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
bobson Upright Location: New Zealand	it entirely depends on the insurance policy and its terms regarding - A) Arson B) Police vs. Internal Investigations Also, was the policy under his name, her name or joint? If under his or joint, then if the internal insurance investigation concluded he was responsible, most likely no payment. If under her name, him being responsible could be irrelevant.

01-31-2004, 07:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
kimmytr Upright	Bobson, the policy in the both name. They've already concluded that he cannot commit the act ( He stayed in a motel, and he called and talked to his teenager daughter just before she left the house the fire started, and phone record proved that ). So, you are saying there is easy answer, right?

01-31-2004, 09:26 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	They get the insurance money unless they got royally fucked over on the terms of the policy. Also, let us know if they figure out who he had do it. You have me wondering.

02-01-2004, 05:30 PM	#9 (permalink)
Bivens Banned Location: Bakersfield, CA	1) Contact an attorney to schedule an appointment. 2) Don't ask for legal advice on an Internet forum. I know you want a general idea, but all we can do is just say "well this happened to us and we got this and yeah" TALK TO AN ATTORNEY

02-01-2004, 07:24 PM	#11 (permalink)
kimmytr Upright	Skier, it won't be the wife. She was at work, there are hundreds people vowed for her

02-02-2004, 08:08 AM	#14 (permalink)
skysooner Registered User Location: Oklahoma	My guess is the insurance company will investigate and could withhold payment just on suspicion. It would then be up to the couple to fight them in court to get payment. This could turn out to be a big mess.

02-02-2004, 11:59 AM	#16 (permalink)
raeanna74 I'm not a blonde! I'm knot! I'm knot! I'm knot! Location: Upper Michigan	A kid we knew got caught setting fire to a friends trailer so that they could collect the insurance money. They had promised to pay him a significant amount when they got the insurance money. He got caught - they both got jailed. No one got any money. Even if the husband or wife paid someone to do it if it can be proven then it's likely no one will get any money. Maybe it was the daughter? __________________ "Always learn the rules so that you can break them properly." Dalai Lama My Karma just ran over your Dogma.

02-02-2004, 03:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
TNJ4555 Tilted Location: Jersey	In my 49 years (13 as a small factory owner) one thing I have learned is true: Don't take legal advise from your buddy unless your buddy is an attorney! Spend the dough, hire a lawyer.

02-02-2004, 03:08 PM	#18 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	Lawyer- the only way to go in this case- laws vary by state, and policy- otherwise you will get fucked (and not in a good way) __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

02-02-2004, 10:40 PM	#19 (permalink)
kimmytr Upright	Did somebody mention the daughter? well, actually, the police were looking at her right away (after all, she was the last person to leave the house) but that is going nowhere. As far as lawyers, she talked to a few. This the best deal she come off with: $8,000 retaining fee, 40% of what she is going to receive from the insurance. Let's suppose she'll get what she wants: $500,000 minus 40% will leave her with $300,000, split that with her soon- to- be divorced husband, she'll about $150,000. (Not much consider she'd been working and saving all her life, she is in her '50) Isn't there anything spelling Black and White: Arson, Nobody charged, Insurance pay ( Yes, No)