So we've heard all about the RIAA suing, but whats next...? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Lyaec123 · 09-11-2003, 08:06 PM

We've heard all the latest news and what's happening and why, and tons of people's opinions on the matter, but I am wondering what you guys think is going to be the final outcome. Will music swapping continue to thrive, or will we finally have to pay for all our music?

I think that file sharing is inevitable, it is impossible to overcome the creativity of the thousands and thousands of people who want to do it. The cost is going to remain free or negligable.

I see nothing wrong with downloading music. I never bought CD's before and therefore had $0 input to the music industry, but now because I can download the music and see what I like, I have spent much more money on the music industry. (concerts, tshirts, etc)

They do have a point, that the music is technically copyrighted as theirs and they have every right to sue people for it, but this isn't really ethically right if you think about it, and I think what will end up happening is artists saying enough is enough, and denouncing the RIAA.

what do you think?

steveincolumbus · 09-11-2003, 10:36 PM

I use mp3's to preview the music more or less...... I am not going to use a burnt cd of mp3's in my car or home stereo, I have a couple thousand dollars in both stereo's and they sound great to me but it I have tried mp3's and they sound like shit.....

starbum · 09-12-2003, 04:51 AM

If the filesharing networks go down, I'll just go over to mp3.com to preview all my music. Or, at least, all that I can.

Nefir · 09-12-2003, 06:26 AM

1)People like me get angry with RIAA and buy from independent labels. [ check ]

2)CD sales will begin dropping. [ check ]

3)Some random RIAA upper-level employee will be sitting in his/her office, when suddenly a ceiling tile drops on their head. A profound thought enters their mind! "Perhaps there is gravity after all!" Er... I mean "Hey we're losing sales because we are such assholes, not because of the file sharing!" [ check? ]

4)The US Gov't will see that RIAA is using the legal system in vain, and reconsider the copyright law. [ ]

5)Eventually the law will gravitate towards a system similar to Canada's copyright law. [ ]

6)Sales dropping even faster will force RIAA to reconsider their stance, and accept that not all people who listen to music are paying for it, just like with Adobe Photoshop and Windows XP. [ ]

7)Hell freezes over. Satan admitted to ER with severe frostbite and pneumonia. Currently recovering in stable conditions. [ ]

8)Flying pigs plague parts of Europe and Eastern Russia. One disgruntled commuter complains "Its one thing to clean up bug goo off the windshield, but these bloody pigs make quite a mess!" [ ]

Stud · 09-12-2003, 06:44 AM

How do all you people who think it is "just downloading a file" and "people will do it anyway" feel about the child porn industry. I see no distinction between the two, except a superficial difference in the people who support them.

Midnight_Son · 09-12-2003, 07:13 AM

It's not your music until you pay for it.
Until you whip out some green backs for it, it belongs to the people who wrote it and played it.
Granted the record companies are raping us, but in the end you’re only hurting the artists by stealing their music. Sorry, sometimes the truth is hard to swallow.

tinfoil · 09-12-2003, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyaec123

I see nothing wrong with downloading music. I never bought CD's before and therefore had $0 input to the music industry, but now because I can download the music and see what I like, I have spent much more money on the music industry. (concerts, tshirts, etc)

They do have a point, that the music is technically copyrighted as theirs and they have every right to sue people for it, but this isn't really ethically right if you think about it, and I think what will end up happening is artists saying enough is enough, and denouncing the RIAA.

That's where we differ. You may not see anything wrong with it, but it is considered theft (though some may argue semantics.) You are taking music which you are not legally entitled to.

I agree, the way they are suing people isn't ethically right in my opinion. The RIAA is not being required to prove very much. The burden of proof has moved from the accuser to the accused. However, if they were to have done this the proper way and put together a convincing case then I see no issue with it ethically. They are protecting what is theirs to protect.

Stud, that's just plain silly. Comparing copyright theft to child porn is alarmist. Is your last name Berman?

CrazySaturn · 09-12-2003, 07:27 AM

But what happens when the people playing aren't artists anymore, becoming tools of the corporations?

Holo · 09-12-2003, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stud
How do all you people who think it is "just downloading a file" and "people will do it anyway" feel about the child porn industry. I see no distinction between the two, except a superficial difference in the people who support them.

Superficial? If you had a choice of putting up a known thief or a child molester in your home and yes, you must choose, which one would you pick? The answer is obvious, especially if you're a parent. I see a lot of this Mp3 dlers=child molesters in these debates and it is annoying. There is no comparison to those ppl....just because their reasoning sounds similar to a dler of child porn doesn't give licence to lump them into a child molester's category and win by Argument from Intimidation. The two are mutually exclusive. You cannot tarnish the reputation of a filesharer by associating them with something totally different.

As far as P2P is concerned the next generation of cloaked P2Ps are already being developed,with encryption for all files such as Nullsoft's WASTE and Blubster already exist out there as well as Freenet, and eventually every P2P will have this encryption, making it impossible to monitor what it being sent. Blubster and Freenet bounces the requests off several servents and packets sent across several nodes so no one ever has a complete file at any time.

Eventually I think more online "pirate" communities will be formed
out of small groups of ppl who trust one another and are very secretive about personal info and sharing with n00bs. This is already happening in a few places I've seen and the more they push the more it will go to this kind of underground communities. It won't be the field day Napster was but anyone who knows what they are doing behind a keyboard will still be able to dl whatever they want.

Stud · 09-12-2003, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo
Superficial? If you had a choice of putting up a known thief or a child molester in your home and yes, you must choose, which one would you pick?

Actually that is the flaw in the thief's logic. I DO NOT have to put up a thief OR a child molester. I could make a simple stupid comparison to try and prove a point but that does not mean it is realistic.

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo
The answer is obvious, especially if you're a parent. I see a lot of this Mp3 dlers=child molesters in these debates and it is annoying. There is no comparison to those ppl....just because their reasoning sounds similar to a dler of child porn doesn't give licence to lump them into a child molester's category and win by Argument from Intimidation. The two are mutually exclusive.

Please tell me how they are mutually exclusive? Are you saying that no child pornographers download MP3's?

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo
You cannot tarnish the reputation of a filesharer by associating them with something totally different.

It is not totally different. The illegal MP3 is a file and so is the illegal child porn, the rationalization of both groups to justify their crimes is the same. Morally the people are the same.

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo

As far as P2P is concerned the next generation of cloaked P2Ps are already being developed,with encryption for all files such as Nullsoft's WASTE and Blubster already exist out there as well as Freenet, and eventually every P2P will have this encryption, making it impossible to monitor what it being sent. Blubster and Freenet bounces the requests off several servents and packets sent across several nodes so no one ever has a complete file at any time.

Eventually I think more online "pirate" communities will be formed
out of small groups of ppl who trust one another and are very secretive about personal info and sharing with n00bs. This is already happening in a few places I've seen and the more they push the more it will go to this kind of underground communities. It won't be the field day Napster was but anyone who knows what they are doing behind a keyboard will still be able to dl whatever they want.

This will make the prosecutions bigger and more spectacular. Add some RICO charges in there as well!

Othello · 09-12-2003, 08:09 AM

Besides there shear size, why are movies not as freely downloaded as music files? Answer is quality of picture and bang for the buck (extras included in the dvd). Now most people have dvd players so why not ditch the cd format all together and put the music on DVDs. The pro and ameteur audiophile will love to have the option of playing the songs in DD 5.1 surround or higher.

Have you ever watched a movie on your dvd player and one of the songs blast through your home entertainment system? If you're anything like me, you wished that all your CDs sounded so good. Now let's take it one step further and have the artist prerecord all the music videos and also have them available on the DVD. Now that is something worth paying for that would get people off MP3s and back to buying from the record labels.

Destrox · 09-12-2003, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Holo
Eventually I think more online "pirate" communities will be formed out of small groups of ppl who trust one another and are very secretive about personal info and sharing with n00bs. This is already happening in a few places I've seen and the more they push the more it will go to this kind of underground communities. It won't be the field day Napster was but anyone who knows what they are doing behind a keyboard will still be able to dl whatever they want.

This is what most people fail to realize (I'm not saying you, just people in general), this has been going on since before the birth of the internet, and telephone communications. There have been groups of people sharing, and doing other things i'll choose not to mention.

All this p2p thing is, is a large PUBLIC grouping or scene, that was destined to fail from the start of it. It was popular from the people who didnt know or couldnt get into the more safe and better "styles" of getting your wares. (no this is not supporting warez, so dont even say it) And these people took it for granted, they treat p2p downloading like its a message from god saying that your invincible. Anything that is this public, this well known to the world, that is this illegal is going to fail.

Turn down the ignorance blinders and realize there is no moral reasoning to why this shouldnt be shutdown. Hell if anything this is helping the real "bad guys" of the internet by getting the pressure taken off them and onto the people who really are just virgins to what thier attempting to think thier doing.

I'll have to come back and read this in a few minutes, I'm sure I messed up at some point. :P

tinfoil · 09-12-2003, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stud
Actually that is the flaw in the thief's logic. I DO NOT have to put up a thief OR a child molester. I could make a simple stupid comparison to try and prove a point but that does not mean it is realistic.

Please tell me how they are mutually exclusive? Are you saying that no child pornographers download MP3's?

It is not totally different. The illegal MP3 is a file and so is the illegal child porn, the rationalization of both groups to justify their crimes is the same. Morally the people are the same.

This will make the prosecutions bigger and more spectacular. Add some RICO charges in there as well!

That's like vilifying speeders because child-molesters also speed.

You're overbroad in your comparison.

Lyaec123 · 09-12-2003, 02:52 PM

True, it may be stealing, and I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just saying that people will continue to do it no matter how tough the RIAA makes itself out to be.

Booboo · 09-12-2003, 03:19 PM

Your comparison with the child-molester make no sense whatsoever to me. Both files may be illegal.. but thats where the similarities end.

jbrooks544 · 09-12-2003, 04:50 PM

Theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it you are a thief. Anyway, just like porn - there will always be illegal music. Many countries are not subject to these laws. Just have your webspace in some exempt country and you can't really be arrested. You could post the songs right on your site.
Also, hasn't anyone ever heard of newsgroups? They are so much better than napster or kazaa, etc. Use program like sb news newsbot from http://sb-software.com/ and you will fill up your harddrive with mp3's posthaste. same with porn.

Misc. sites like this one tfproject.org will continue to somehow make material available - sort of like they already do with jpgs of porn - no different.

DownwardSpiral · 09-12-2003, 06:36 PM

They will never end piracy, eventually a boycott of the RIAA will form until they compromise, thats what I think could happen.

fuzzix · 09-13-2003, 07:13 AM

I think that even without piracy the RIAA are doomed. Computer music is going to be huge, artists can make professional sounding recordings with nothing but a PC - the online music scene is generally anti-capitalist and anarchic - as it gains popularity more and more people will listen to and produce free music - which is already on par with, and in many cases far better than commercial stuff (depending on your taste) if you know where to look. That said, I still don't think filesharing will be stopping any time soon, all you need are a few good mates on irc with large mp3 collections and you're set

09-11-2003, 08:06 PM	#1 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	So we've heard all about the RIAA suing, but whats next...? We've heard all the latest news and what's happening and why, and tons of people's opinions on the matter, but I am wondering what you guys think is going to be the final outcome. Will music swapping continue to thrive, or will we finally have to pay for all our music? I think that file sharing is inevitable, it is impossible to overcome the creativity of the thousands and thousands of people who want to do it. The cost is going to remain free or negligable. I see nothing wrong with downloading music. I never bought CD's before and therefore had $0 input to the music industry, but now because I can download the music and see what I like, I have spent much more money on the music industry. (concerts, tshirts, etc) They do have a point, that the music is technically copyrighted as theirs and they have every right to sue people for it, but this isn't really ethically right if you think about it, and I think what will end up happening is artists saying enough is enough, and denouncing the RIAA. what do you think?

09-12-2003, 06:26 AM	#4 (permalink)
Nefir Junkie Location: Louisville, KY	1)People like me get angry with RIAA and buy from independent labels. [ check ] 2)CD sales will begin dropping. [ check ] 3)Some random RIAA upper-level employee will be sitting in his/her office, when suddenly a ceiling tile drops on their head. A profound thought enters their mind! "Perhaps there is gravity after all!" Er... I mean "Hey we're losing sales because we are such assholes, not because of the file sharing!" [ check? ] 4)The US Gov't will see that RIAA is using the legal system in vain, and reconsider the copyright law. [ ] 5)Eventually the law will gravitate towards a system similar to Canada's copyright law. [ ] 6)Sales dropping even faster will force RIAA to reconsider their stance, and accept that not all people who listen to music are paying for it, just like with Adobe Photoshop and Windows XP. [ ] 7)Hell freezes over. Satan admitted to ER with severe frostbite and pneumonia. Currently recovering in stable conditions. [ ] 8)Flying pigs plague parts of Europe and Eastern Russia. One disgruntled commuter complains "Its one thing to clean up bug goo off the windshield, but these bloody pigs make quite a mess!" [ ] __________________ You do not use a Macintosh, instead you use a Tandy Kompressor break your glowstick, Kompressor eat your candy Kompressor open jaws, Kompressor release ants Kompressor watch you scream, Because Kompressor does not dance

09-12-2003, 07:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
Midnight_Son The Cover Doesn't Match The Book Location: in a van down by the river	It's not your music until you pay for it. Until you whip out some green backs for it, it belongs to the people who wrote it and played it. Granted the record companies are raping us, but in the end you’re only hurting the artists by stealing their music. Sorry, sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. __________________ SWM, tattooed, seeks meaningful tits and beer. Enjoys biker mags, pornography, and Sunday morning walks to the liquor store. Winners of erotic hot dog eating contests given priority.

09-12-2003, 07:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
CrazySaturn Insane Location: Champaign, IL	But what happens when the people playing aren't artists anymore, becoming tools of the corporations? __________________ What's the difference between you and a mallard with a cold? One's a sick duck...I can't remember how it ends, but your mother is a whore!

09-12-2003, 03:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
Booboo Insane	Your comparison with the child-molester make no sense whatsoever to me. Both files may be illegal.. but thats where the similarities end. __________________ "Your life is yours to live, go out and live it" - Richard Rahl

09-11-2003, 10:36 PM	#2 (permalink)
steveincolumbus Psycho Location: BFE, Kentucky	I use mp3's to preview the music more or less...... I am not going to use a burnt cd of mp3's in my car or home stereo, I have a couple thousand dollars in both stereo's and they sound great to me but it I have tried mp3's and they sound like shit.....

09-12-2003, 04:51 AM	#3 (permalink)
starbum Tilted	If the filesharing networks go down, I'll just go over to mp3.com to preview all my music. Or, at least, all that I can.

09-12-2003, 06:44 AM	#5 (permalink)
Stud Upright	How do all you people who think it is "just downloading a file" and "people will do it anyway" feel about the child porn industry. I see no distinction between the two, except a superficial difference in the people who support them.

09-12-2003, 08:09 AM	#11 (permalink)
Othello Upright Location: Toronto	Besides there shear size, why are movies not as freely downloaded as music files? Answer is quality of picture and bang for the buck (extras included in the dvd). Now most people have dvd players so why not ditch the cd format all together and put the music on DVDs. The pro and ameteur audiophile will love to have the option of playing the songs in DD 5.1 surround or higher. Have you ever watched a movie on your dvd player and one of the songs blast through your home entertainment system? If you're anything like me, you wished that all your CDs sounded so good. Now let's take it one step further and have the artist prerecord all the music videos and also have them available on the DVD. Now that is something worth paying for that would get people off MP3s and back to buying from the record labels.

09-12-2003, 02:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
Lyaec123 Crazy	True, it may be stealing, and I'm not trying to justify it, I'm just saying that people will continue to do it no matter how tough the RIAA makes itself out to be.

09-12-2003, 04:50 PM	#16 (permalink)
jbrooks544 Addict	Theft is theft. If you didn't pay for it you are a thief. Anyway, just like porn - there will always be illegal music. Many countries are not subject to these laws. Just have your webspace in some exempt country and you can't really be arrested. You could post the songs right on your site. Also, hasn't anyone ever heard of newsgroups? They are so much better than napster or kazaa, etc. Use program like sb news newsbot from http://sb-software.com/ and you will fill up your harddrive with mp3's posthaste. same with porn. Misc. sites like this one tfproject.org will continue to somehow make material available - sort of like they already do with jpgs of porn - no different.

09-12-2003, 06:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
DownwardSpiral The Funeral of Hearts Location: Trapped inside my mind. . .	They will never end piracy, eventually a boycott of the RIAA will form until they compromise, thats what I think could happen. __________________ "So Keep on Pretending. Our Heavens Worth the Waiting. Keep on Pretending. It's Alright." -- H.I.M., "Pretending"

09-13-2003, 07:13 AM	#18 (permalink)
fuzzix Psycho Location: Australia	I think that even without piracy the RIAA are doomed. Computer music is going to be huge, artists can make professional sounding recordings with nothing but a PC - the online music scene is generally anti-capitalist and anarchic - as it gains popularity more and more people will listen to and produce free music - which is already on par with, and in many cases far better than commercial stuff (depending on your taste) if you know where to look. That said, I still don't think filesharing will be stopping any time soon, all you need are a few good mates on irc with large mp3 collections and you're set __________________ I'm most definately not 'lovin' it'.