09-12-2003, 04:44 PM | #41 (permalink) |
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Riaa are no charmers, but anyone who tries to defend theft sounds like an infiantile hypocrit to me. It is quite simple. If you illegally download music you are a thief. Don't try to justify it. If you get sued you probably deserve it. "yes" it is all about the money - so what? what isn't? Do you go to work everyday and expect to get paid? YES! How is owning rights to music any different? You don't have to like Riaa, I don't - but they are within their rights and it will probably work. The "regular" world of internet is about 2 - 3 years behind the porn side. The organizations that police copyright violations of porno pics cracked down on sites and people a while back. No different thatn riaa today. They won't get everyone, but they will do what they have to to try to protect their livelyhood.
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09-12-2003, 06:11 PM | #43 (permalink) |
The Funeral of Hearts
Location: Trapped inside my mind. . .
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So jbrooks554, it sounds like what you're saying is it's ok for the RIAA to target 12 year old girls who probably have no idea what the hell is so illegal about downloading music. Are you telling me you condone them sueing a 12 year old because she had music? Let me ask you, do you have any downloaded music on your computer? Or what if you were in the 12 year olds shoes and you were sued by the RIAA for something you probably didn't know was wrong, hmm? I'm looking forward to seeing your response now, enlighten me.
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"So Keep on Pretending. Our Heavens Worth the Waiting. Keep on Pretending. It's Alright." -- H.I.M., "Pretending" |
09-12-2003, 06:26 PM | #44 (permalink) |
Wake up
Location: Nowhere special
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It's a sad fucking day when the stupid RIAA sues a 12 year old girl for downloading music, IMO. I will say that i think it's funny, but in a sad, sad, way.
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"I hope that when the world comes to an end, I can breathe a sigh of relief, because there will be so much to look forward to." -- Donnie Darko |
09-12-2003, 10:26 PM | #45 (permalink) | |||
Crazy
Location: Ahh, the lovely South
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I truly wish there is a better way, but I can't find it. I've been in discussions for 4 years now about how this would all come to a head, and here we have it. This beast is of our own creation. We are reaping what we have sown.
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09-13-2003, 05:15 AM | #46 (permalink) |
Crazy
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The United States of America is a country which was born out of the idea that unjust and unfair laws should be challanged by the people of the land. If the avenues of the legal system protect unfair and unjust laws, the citizens have the right to pool their resources to have these laws overturned in manners outside of the courtroom. But this is a two-edged sword, because it also gives those who back unfair and unjust laws the same right to defend these laws, and as long as these laws are on the books, the courts will back them.
The methods for overturning laws start at the ballot-box, but also include using ones power of speech, free assembly, and of course civil disobeitience(sp?). I veiw the sharing of downloads a an act of CDO. |
09-13-2003, 07:05 AM | #47 (permalink) |
Psycho
Location: Australia
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For me, the issue isn't about whether or not we have a right to share this music - but I'd have to agree with you, we don't really. That doesn't affect me, I don't listen to any of the RIAA's pap anyway so I couldn't care if the files are available to me or not. What I DO care about however is the well-being of the music industry, and let's face it - the RIAA are fuckers who milk people for all their worth, chew them up, spit them out and blow the earnings on hookers and imported cars. The RIAA don't actually have any use at all, most of their artists are filth - manufactured pop, and those who aren't would be far better off without them if they'd just open their eyes. Filesharing is a way to bring down these criminals, and it's working good, so keep it up. The way I see it, any artist who sticks with the RIAA is doomed, I couldn't care about them, times are changing.
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I'm most definately not 'lovin' it'. |
09-13-2003, 07:45 AM | #48 (permalink) | ||
Crazy
Location: Ahh, the lovely South
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mmmm.... pudding |
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09-13-2003, 09:27 AM | #49 (permalink) |
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DownwardSpiral
You can't sue a 12 year old. The parents will have to answer for it. This 12 year old issue is just silly. You are saying that some laws are ok to break because you are 12? Can you give me a list of laws that your are exempt from just because you are 12? What if she was stealing bubble gum? Is that ok b/c she is 12? I'm no fan of riaa - I think their strategies are "defensive" and these strategies don't usually succeed in business - I know this. But they are well within their rights and they will have some measure of sucess, much as the pornographers had some success suing copyright violators - I know this as fact. You need to give me one single reason why it is ok for you, or anyone else to steal other's property - a real reason - not just the lame, infantile gibberish I hear from you and others. Don't say "umm, well, everyone does it so it should be ok and it isn't bad mmkay?". dumb, dumb dumb. dumb bunnies you are! If you don't like the laws then change them and stop your whining and your illegal behavior. I hope you publish something someday or sell photos or art, and I hope you have someone illegally use your stuff without permission or paying for it. Then you shouldn't sue them and you should not have any income and then you work for free and your kids go hungry. This is the real world. You can't just choose the laws that you think are good and expect to not pay the consequences for breaking the others. |
09-13-2003, 10:10 AM | #50 (permalink) | ||
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Location: The Land Down Under
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And in this case, the mother needs to take a fair bit of the blame. She obviously knew that her kid was downloading music, and should have known that that is illegal. If it were my kid, I would've sat down and explained to her that what she was doing was illegal, and that she should stop. Just like I would if she were in the habit of stealing bubblegum or throwing rocks at passing cars.
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09-13-2003, 10:15 AM | #51 (permalink) | |
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Location: The Land Down Under
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What we don't have the right to, is ownership of Metallica's latest album, for free. We don't have the right to own specific music. Artists have the right, when they create music, to demand that people pay to hear it, whether that means charging for a CD or charging at the door of a concert. And of they charge too high a price, then let them know they are charging too much by not buying the CD. But you don't have the right to own that track in some form without paying what the artist is asking for it. If there is a label between you and the artist, or if that label is screwing the artist out of their money, that is between the artist and the label.
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09-13-2003, 11:53 AM | #52 (permalink) | |
Vanishing, like I do..
Location: Austin, TX
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Re: Re: In defence of the RIAA
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Toy-like people make me boy-like. |
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09-13-2003, 01:54 PM | #53 (permalink) |
I change
Location: USA
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there's a certain inevitability to all this.
both sides will continue to pursue their own aims and ends. technology eventually unleashes every genie in every bottle to roam free and wreak its own mischief for good and for ill...
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create evolution |
09-14-2003, 02:44 AM | #55 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: Far too far from my Angel....
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TIO, I hate to break it to you, but not "all" record stores have listening posts - and even those that do don't always have the CD you want set up in the listening area. Try to get some snot-nosed high school employee to go out of their way to load one up for you sometime....it'll be an education, I'm sure.
As for the inferior product being pushed on the public by the RIAA, I agree with everyone who has stated the obvious: that the record companies could give a rat's-ass about our wants and that the only thing that matters is $$. I don't know about you, but I find it highly suspect that it took Apple - a company which as far as I know doesn't have a single recording artist under management - to implement a per-song process which actually makes sense. When Napster suggested it, the record industry scoffed and stonewalled. When BMI announced they were planning a per-song downloading program, the industry was even more hesitant to take a stand other than "not gonna' work..." But when Apple just went ahead and did it...and it worked...now everybody is scrambling to join in. I don't download. I've never found it necessary as my friends and I - between us - have most of the songs I'm interested in listening to. So if I'm out with my pals, we're assured of a good musical selection just from the tunes we bring along. However, I for one can completely sympathize with some college kid who cannot fork out $20 continuously for the opportunity to get that song or two that they actually like - while having to suffer through the 10 or so songs that they'd rather puncture their eardrums than listen to. In Wall Street Gordon Gekko said, "Greed is good." Bullshit. Apple actually went with what the customer wants. What's so hard about that? Keep in mind that these record companies spend millions annually to test-market, using focus groups and other test beds to gather the public's input on a variety of artists; would it really have been so difficult to use these mechanisms to gather some insight into this matter? The RIAA has nobody to blame for this mess but themselves. If they had been more interested in maintaining and/or growing their customer base, then Napster, Gnutella, KaZaa and the other file-sharing systems would not have been such a disaster to them. Their stubborn refusal to see the flaws in their marketing process has created a subculture where the RIAA - and the lawmakers who toady to their lobbyists - is now "the enemy". You doubt that last part? Take for example the case of the 70-something man who is being sued by the RIAA because his 12 year-old granddaughter downloaded music when she came to visit him. I'll grant you that this took place over quite an extended period of time, but still: there is a definite need for some restraint and insight on the part of the RIAA. That said, there is also a need for parents to teach their children right from wrong, and that entails dealing with issues such as this one. It's a morass of pro's and con's. I for one refuse to wholeheartedly support the RIAA. They have their rights (bought and paid for, I assure you!) and so do those they would persecute - people who either cannot afford to shell out Money for Nothing or people who are tired of the pablum packaged around a decent song or two. Would it make it any better if people just refused to buy any CDs? Bankruptcy is not an attractive alternative - if any of you RIAA Nazis are reading this...... ......Think about it. |
09-14-2003, 07:24 AM | #56 (permalink) | |
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Location: The Land Down Under
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The people who can't afford music do have their rights. But those rights don't include the right to music, any more than someone who cannot afford a ticket to the movies has a right to see Bad Boys 2 or someone who cannot afford a ferrarri has a right to own one of them either. Yeah, if people voted with their wallets and stopped buying CDs, it would make a difference. Maybe then the RIAA would start up something like iTunes then, and I'd love to see it. But as long as people are illegally sharing music, it seems to me that the RIAA has a pretty secure stream of income through the courts. And just for the record, I am a college kid who can't afford to fork out $20 for a CD. Even the good ones. So I listen to the radio or listen to the few CDs I do own. Sure, it's not as good as being able to listen to what I want, when I want, but then again, my $100 suit isn't as nice as a $1000 Armani. I have to live with what I can afford.
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09-14-2003, 12:07 PM | #57 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: Far too far from my Angel....
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TIO, I chose the right word....persecute. The RIAA is issuing subpoenas and requiring ISPs to divulge confidential information based upon the supposition that there just might be an infringement. No actual proof is required on the part of the RIAA, and therefore.....
IT IS PERSECUTION By issuing its subpoenas, the RIAA is able to compile information which it may have no intention of using in criminal proceedings in the present or immediate future. Even the U.S. Government is not legally allowed such latitude! So please tell me how this is not a form of persecution, when your personal information - I dare say even your identity - is given up to a group of individuals who may use it at some undetermined point down the road in a manner which does not have your best interests at heart. .....Better yet, why don't you write down all the pertinent facts of your life - Name, Date of Birth, Social Security # (if you're in the U.S.), Credit Card number, address, telephone number, etc. - and send it to the RIAA. Give them a hand in their endeavor. The film industry tried the same strong-arm tactic in the past when it filed a lawsuit against Sony over VHS's ability to allow consumers to duplicate their product, and the courts (wisely) came back on the side of the consumer. I guess with some better lobbying, it wouldn't have turned out that way back then, huh? What you seem to have overlooked is that I would be perfectly within my rights if I were to buy the CD, make a copy, loan it to a friend (either the original or the copy - it makes no difference) and let them enjoy it. From the standpoint of the law, I've done nothing wrong. From the RIAA's viewpoint, however, I'm about two steps shy of Crimes Against Humanity. After all, I just shared a copyrighted product, and the end-user didn't pay for the creative product he or she is now enjoying. And just for the record: I'm no longer a college-age kid, and yes - I can afford the CDs. I opt to buy only those works with enough songs I like to justify the cost of the entire CD; I don't download, simply because it's not my style.....and I don't currently own a Mac.....but I won't condemn those who do download. Especially when the alternative is more of the same garbage we've been spoon-fed for so long. So go to eBay, buy yourself a Mac, and start downloading through Apple's service. At 99-cents a title, it's a great value (and a hell of a lot cheaper than what the RIAA would demand of you). |
09-14-2003, 07:24 PM | #58 (permalink) | |||||||
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tr.v. ·se·cut·ed, per·se·cut·ing, per·se·cutes 1. To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs. 2. To annoy persistently; bother. How are these people being oppressed? Harassed? Bothered? The fact is what the RIAA is doing IS legal. If this girl or someone in here family was downloading and distributing music it was not legal. You do not even address the specific but paint everyone with a broad brush of innocence. Quote:
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09-15-2003, 02:46 AM | #59 (permalink) |
Loser
Location: Far too far from my Angel....
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Yes, Stud. A party is allowed to gather information so long as the intent is there to either prosecute in a criminal action or to bring the matter before a civil court for trial. However, the RIAA has already stated that they will not be litigating in every case.....yet they still gather the data in every case.
I could understand if the RIAA had to gather this information in order to determine the scope of copyright infringement on the part of an individual, but this can be determined by utilizing the user IDs or the ISP's terminal location information. So why would the RIAA need to compile data for people who don't fall into the criteria they've claimed to be using? You work for those naughty little Nazi bastards, don't you? And by the way, a SSN is something which is required to be given only to the IRS, to your banking institutions, and to your employer. I don't know where you got the idea that it's public domain, but it's also a Federal Crime for any of those recipients to divulge it without the permission of the SSN-holder. That's why when you apply for a credit card or a checking/savings account, they ask you to sign that little piece of paper which allows your SSN to be shared with credit reporting agencies and other portions of their financial enterprise. Get a clue, Gomer. What part of "....to annoy persistently; bother." would not be accurately described by finding out from your ISP that you're being listed, researched, and potentially sued? Yes, the RIAA is not breaking the law with their actions....they sure as hell paid enough for that law to be written and enacted in Congress! Two years ago this would not have even been possible, and yes - they would have been breaking the law as it stood back then. I for one have a hard time accepting that pre-teen children are capable of being fully cognizant of the ramifications their actions have, and as a result prosecuting them for infractions like this is asinine. But please, Stud....tell me how this is a just course of action: how can punishing someone who is not yet mature enough (or with enough life experience) to know the potential risks of their actions be anything other than diligence run amok? Tell you what: you review your own life and the actions you've taken during it. If you haven't broken a single law (and jaywalking is included), then feel free to stand on your little soapbox and chide those of us who actually go out there and live in the real world. I will welcome your smug rebuttals with open arms and a smile on my face. However, if you are like the multitudes out there who have broken a law or two, then by all means voice your opinions (I know I sure do, that's for sure!) but remember that scoffing at others is something which you're not really suited for, as you're pretty much in the same boat as everybody else. |
09-15-2003, 07:52 AM | #61 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: New Orleans/Oakland/San Diego/Chicago
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I do think that the RIAA is getting ripped off, but its kinda hard to feel sorry for them beacuse of all the musicians they have been ripping off for so long. Not to mention how they have been ripping off you and me. The music industry is out of control and they need to be stopped. How many small bands have been shut out beacuse they didnt fit into the pop culture that the industry has created? How much good music has been kept off the radio beacuse Britney Spears and The Backstreet Boys have a monopoly on radio time? I have spent a small fortune on CDs and cassetts in the past, pre-Napster, and I have been ripped off for long enough.
The RIAA is a corporate giant and the only way to stop them from pillaging and raping the "little guy" is by sheer numbers. We are 60 million strong and the RIAA knows it. This is why they are resorting to lawsuits against children, the elderly, and students. The internet is a powerful tool and the 60 million people using it to speak up against unfair monopolies is a beautiful thing. Its not often normal people have a chance to defeat something as powerful as the RIAA. I would rather donate to help pay for peoples fines for sharing music online than to pay even 50 cents to the RIAA for 100 songs. Its a matter of principle.
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"Ideas are far more powerful than guns. We don't allow our enemies to have guns, why should we allow them to have ideas?" - Joseph Stalin |
09-15-2003, 08:43 PM | #63 (permalink) | |||||||||||
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Also you conveniently side stepped my other question that is are prosecutors obligated to prosecute EVERY case they gather information on? Why not? Quote:
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A. Really want the product so you create some small justification to do so. B. The person is not likeable. That reminds me of what happened in a little country called Germany around 1938-45. Also in the United States public opinion was used to create laws to steal from those dreaded Japanese Americans, or just "Japs" to racist b@stards like you, and steal property and items from them. Quote:
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Justifying the theft of the intellectual property will be profitable to you in the short term. In the long term it will inhibit development and eventually hurt EVERY ONE. But selfish people like you do not have to worry about that do they? Quote:
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I think you think this justifies your theft, so you WANT to believe it, but you do not know all of the facts. Quote:
But we do not know if it was the 11 year old girl, we do not know that she did not know what she was doing was wrong, we do not know why she, while living on the taxpayers dime, was not being supervised by her parents IF she was the actual one doing it. Quote:
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09-15-2003, 08:47 PM | #64 (permalink) | |
Upright
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She deserves it you know! |
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09-16-2003, 03:27 AM | #65 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: Michigan
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Plain and simple. Stealing or not, oh well, but they aren't going to loose a meal over me downloading it. |
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09-16-2003, 12:20 PM | #67 (permalink) |
The Funeral of Hearts
Location: Trapped inside my mind. . .
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This thread should be renamed 'RIAA supporters unite!' because that's all most of you are doing, is supporting and defending a company of already rich bastards who are pissed because we are ripping off of them what they probably ripped off the actual artists in the first place. If they wanted us to stop downloading that badly, they would be doing anything they could to make the people happy to buy their music. They think that overpricing music is ok because they thought we had no other option but to buy from them, thus they get richer and we get ripped off. So finally some people get annoyed and create programs to download and share music. My question to you all that compare the RIAA issues to things like child porn, rape, 12 year olds shootnig people and the such is how the hell can you compare compyright infringement to murder, rape, molestation and everything else? These crimes are a lot worse than a damn copyright law. The RIAA issues don't even compare to murder and things, so don't compare this to those crimes.
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"So Keep on Pretending. Our Heavens Worth the Waiting. Keep on Pretending. It's Alright." -- H.I.M., "Pretending" |
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defence, riaa |
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