Your Private Information in Forums - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

bagatelle · 12-22-2010, 09:52 AM

In another forum there was a case of forum administrator being friends with a forumer, who got banned. This banned member wanted to talk to another forumer, who hadn't put up his email public in his profile, so the banned forumer asked his friend, the administrator, for the email. Admin gave him the email address, this forumer had used at registration to the site, without forumer's permission.

Later these friends had a fallout and to hurt his admin friend the banned member revealed chatlogs, which show admin giving out the email address - eventually someone posted about it in the forums. The violated forumer had never been contacted via that email though by the banned member, but someone else did after seeing his email forwarded off-forums among certain members - this way the forumer, who's info had leaked, became aware of it.

I would assume as a default that the registration information to any forum would be safe, meaning only the admins or mods, who possibly can view the details, wouldn't pass this information forward. Imo this goes without saying.

The site has personnel, who work as site employees, but the forum is run by volunteer admins and mods, who don't get paid. Who's responsibility?

How strongly do you feel about this? How would you react? I'm not very knowledgeable about the legal aspects about email privacy in forums, but I would assume my email is not getting forwarded without my consent.

The_Jazz · 12-22-2010, 10:12 AM

As I understand it, the admin in question really didn't do anything wrong. The admin acted in good faith in passing along an email address to keep two friends in touch. It's a judgement call, and I don't have a problem with what happened.

Obviously the guy he did a favor for wasn't worthy of that favor and proved he was a dickhead.

In general, no, we don't pass out email addresses to folks. We definitely don't give information to banned folks - if you're a big enough asshole to get banned around here, you definitely don't deserve any favors.

Beyond that, I'm not sure what exactly you're after with this thread.

bagatelle · 12-22-2010, 10:30 AM

What I'm after is, who do you (forumers here) think is in the right in this case.

The forumer, who's info was leaked, said the site administration, ie. the owners/employees of the site have responsibility. Plus in his opinion they should have fired the forum admin (volunteer worker for the forums) in question - he was let to continue under supervision though.

The violated forumer didn't want to give out any email address, this one especially was work-related, revealing his working place and says he now has to change his work-email and print new business cards etc.

He hadn't exchanged any other contact information with this banned forumer, while he was still able to post in forums, they only talked in the forums. They hadn't agreed on contacting, but the banned forumer wanted to talk to him, and managed to get the email from sources, that in violated forumer's opinion, should be private.

Do you think the violated forumer is taking this too seriously? Or do you think he is entitled to some kind of compensation from site owners?

The_Jazz · 12-22-2010, 10:33 AM

Unless he can prove some sort of damage was done - spam emails, harrassment, etc. - he's taking it too seriously. Compensation? From a volunteer site? Go pound sand.

SecretMethod70 · 12-22-2010, 10:38 AM

Gotta agree with Jazz here. That said, it would have been prudent for the admin to ask the forumer if he wanted his e-mail address to be given to the banned member. Really, though, if the guy got banned, why was anyone helping him in the first place?

The_Jazz · 12-22-2010, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SecretMethod70

Gotta agree with Jazz here. That said, it would have been prudent for the admin to ask the forumer if he wanted his e-mail address to be given to the banned member. Really, though, if the guy got banned, why was anyone helping him in the first place?

Agreed. I think there's more to the story than bagatelle knows. That part makes no sense to me, but the admin could have been lied to or otherwise made a mistake.

bagatelle · 12-22-2010, 10:57 AM

Thank you for your opinion.

The forum moderating is basically run by volunteer workers, admins and mods, but the main site has games, and that site has paid employees working there.

They have privacy policy - which quite frankly, I'm not sure how to interprete. In fact it seems to me there really is no mention of such case, admin giving personal information to a private person. It's almost the opposite, when I view the privacy policy: the user, who registrates to the site - agrees that his/her personal information may be given to a third party, if the site regards there is reason to take legal actions, when there's a danger that this said person could damage the site.

Basically these rules actually seem to let the admins off the hook. Is it a moral issue, however?

What then, if emails given by those, who have access to view them, are used to doing something, that would harm the person, who's information was given out?

Is the best solution for forumers to use email, that does not contain any personal information?

Edit: More info to your questions: the site admin and the banned member were friends. Banned member had caused "havoc" in the forums and the other staff agreed on banning him, decision which the admin-friend had to agree with. But, this is also about, how the moderating policies are viewed. The banned member along with some other members, that got banned, were not treated well according to some forumers and in their opinion wouldn't have deserved their bans. The banned member was trying to prove, they were pushed to being permabanned by some of the moderators too strict policy... it was sort of a mutiny against the moderating policies.

Admin in question was in a bad situation being real life friends with the banned member, thus pressured from both sides - the mods, whose boss he was, and the friend, who's side he also wanted to take.

mixedmedia · 12-22-2010, 11:04 AM

I agree that the admin should have asked the person before giving out their email address. Perhaps it was not listed for a good reason.

Plan9 · 12-22-2010, 11:16 AM

Who uses their real email address to register for a discussion site anyway?

Cynthetiq · 12-22-2010, 12:15 PM

I've been asked the same question before. I always ask the person asking for the contact for their contact information since that is who I can get permission immediately. I then forward that information to the target person and let them know they are being asked to contact the requester.

Halx never drafted a privacy policy for TFP. I have always operated on the supposition of the privacy policy I drafted for other sites which is pretty comprehensive. I don't give people any information.

silent_jay · 12-22-2010, 12:44 PM

TheCrimsonGhost · 12-22-2010, 01:04 PM

Really? Upset that your email address, which is most likely available publicly on the internet in hundreds of places, got given out without permission? I agree with this Jazz character, it is something that should be decided by the admin, probably with a different outcome in each case, here I don't think the admin acted wrongly. I also don't think there are any laws that prevent ANY site that you use your email address to sign up from giving that email address out... unless somehow this is covered by anti-spam laws, but I don't think so.
Either way, I believe the only person in the wrong here, is the person who threw up the private chat logs to try and screw his former friend after the fact.

The_Jazz · 12-22-2010, 01:15 PM

Imagine how pleased I am to be referred to as "this Jazz character" by someone that won't bother to read the PM I sent him about his behavior.

Cynthetiq · 12-22-2010, 01:16 PM

Well to be fair, you are a character. I mean c'mon. That's accurate and not slander, or is it libel? I'm mahknoving stuff up.

uncle phil · 12-22-2010, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Well to be fair, you are a character. I mean c'mon. That's accurate and not slander, or is it libel? I'm mahknoving stuff up.

mixedmedia · 12-22-2010, 02:06 PM

right click. thank you.

pzadniko · 12-25-2010, 01:37 PM

I think this is administrator responsibility, that"s way you must look over user privileges such as privacy policy and user agreements.

zenda · 12-26-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

I always ask the person asking for the contact for their contact information since that is who I can get permission immediately. I then forward that information to the target person and let them know they are being asked to contact the requester.

I am not admin in any forums, but this is the policy I adopt online and offline. "May I have blah bla's phone number please?" "Sure - give me yours and I'll pass it on for them to get back and give it to you personally." Outside of demonstrabley emergency situations with 'contact immediatley' priority, I'm not going to mindread people's decisions.

Sometimes the response is "Aw heck, you should have just given them my number ... it's OK." In which case I remember that explicit permission as it pertains to them.

If I make a mistake, I'd rather it be of mindreading 'no' than 'yes'. The underlying principle I support is that of 'opt in' rather than 'opt out'.

Borla · 12-26-2010, 04:44 PM

I'm an admin of a forum with over 25,000 members and almost 13,000,000 posts. If that happened on my board I would tell the banned member that I had to double-check that it was ok to give out the info. I would then PM or email the other member asking for permission to give out their contact info.

I don't think it's a HUGE deal to hand out an email address without permission, but it's not something I'd personally due under normal circumstances.

gooder · 12-26-2010, 08:36 PM

"No" has its place in these kinds of situations. When they attach electric probes on your nuts and crank the magneto well... maybe it is starting to get into the yes zone... maybe.
I would like to think that you would still after you are done screaming and get your breath back that it would be "Hell no"

---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ----------

Like this, "Hell NO!! ,,,, ahhhh!!!,,, pant, pant, is That ALL YOU got?? I would rather give up my nuts than give up that e-mail address!!"

12-22-2010, 09:52 AM	#1 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	Your Private Information in Forums In another forum there was a case of forum administrator being friends with a forumer, who got banned. This banned member wanted to talk to another forumer, who hadn't put up his email public in his profile, so the banned forumer asked his friend, the administrator, for the email. Admin gave him the email address, this forumer had used at registration to the site, without forumer's permission. Later these friends had a fallout and to hurt his admin friend the banned member revealed chatlogs, which show admin giving out the email address - eventually someone posted about it in the forums. The violated forumer had never been contacted via that email though by the banned member, but someone else did after seeing his email forwarded off-forums among certain members - this way the forumer, who's info had leaked, became aware of it. I would assume as a default that the registration information to any forum would be safe, meaning only the admins or mods, who possibly can view the details, wouldn't pass this information forward. Imo this goes without saying. The site has personnel, who work as site employees, but the forum is run by volunteer admins and mods, who don't get paid. Who's responsibility? How strongly do you feel about this? How would you react? I'm not very knowledgeable about the legal aspects about email privacy in forums, but I would assume my email is not getting forwarded without my consent. Last edited by bagatelle; 12-22-2010 at 12:02 PM.. Reason: wrong word

12-22-2010, 10:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	As I understand it, the admin in question really didn't do anything wrong. The admin acted in good faith in passing along an email address to keep two friends in touch. It's a judgement call, and I don't have a problem with what happened. Obviously the guy he did a favor for wasn't worthy of that favor and proved he was a dickhead. In general, no, we don't pass out email addresses to folks. We definitely don't give information to banned folks - if you're a big enough asshole to get banned around here, you definitely don't deserve any favors. Beyond that, I'm not sure what exactly you're after with this thread. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

12-22-2010, 10:33 AM	#4 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Unless he can prove some sort of damage was done - spam emails, harrassment, etc. - he's taking it too seriously. Compensation? From a volunteer site? Go pound sand. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

12-22-2010, 10:38 AM	#5 (permalink)
SecretMethod70 Human Administrator Location: Chicago	Gotta agree with Jazz here. That said, it would have been prudent for the admin to ask the forumer if he wanted his e-mail address to be given to the banned member. Really, though, if the guy got banned, why was anyone helping him in the first place? __________________ Le temps détruit tout "Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

12-22-2010, 10:57 AM	#7 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	Thank you for your opinion. The forum moderating is basically run by volunteer workers, admins and mods, but the main site has games, and that site has paid employees working there. They have privacy policy - which quite frankly, I'm not sure how to interprete. In fact it seems to me there really is no mention of such case, admin giving personal information to a private person. It's almost the opposite, when I view the privacy policy: the user, who registrates to the site - agrees that his/her personal information may be given to a third party, if the site regards there is reason to take legal actions, when there's a danger that this said person could damage the site. Basically these rules actually seem to let the admins off the hook. Is it a moral issue, however? What then, if emails given by those, who have access to view them, are used to doing something, that would harm the person, who's information was given out? Is the best solution for forumers to use email, that does not contain any personal information? Edit: More info to your questions: the site admin and the banned member were friends. Banned member had caused "havoc" in the forums and the other staff agreed on banning him, decision which the admin-friend had to agree with. But, this is also about, how the moderating policies are viewed. The banned member along with some other members, that got banned, were not treated well according to some forumers and in their opinion wouldn't have deserved their bans. The banned member was trying to prove, they were pushed to being permabanned by some of the moderators too strict policy... it was sort of a mutiny against the moderating policies. Admin in question was in a bad situation being real life friends with the banned member, thus pressured from both sides - the mods, whose boss he was, and the friend, who's side he also wanted to take. Last edited by bagatelle; 12-22-2010 at 12:06 PM..

12-22-2010, 10:30 AM	#3 (permalink)
bagatelle Psycho Location: Europe	What I'm after is, who do you (forumers here) think is in the right in this case. The forumer, who's info was leaked, said the site administration, ie. the owners/employees of the site have responsibility. Plus in his opinion they should have fired the forum admin (volunteer worker for the forums) in question - he was let to continue under supervision though. The violated forumer didn't want to give out any email address, this one especially was work-related, revealing his working place and says he now has to change his work-email and print new business cards etc. He hadn't exchanged any other contact information with this banned forumer, while he was still able to post in forums, they only talked in the forums. They hadn't agreed on contacting, but the banned forumer wanted to talk to him, and managed to get the email from sources, that in violated forumer's opinion, should be private. Do you think the violated forumer is taking this too seriously? Or do you think he is entitled to some kind of compensation from site owners?

12-22-2010, 11:04 AM	#8 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I agree that the admin should have asked the person before giving out their email address. Perhaps it was not listed for a good reason. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

12-22-2010, 11:16 AM	#9 (permalink)
Plan9 I Confess a Shiver	Who uses their real email address to register for a discussion site anyway? __________________ *Whatever you can carry.* "You should not drink... and bake."

12-22-2010, 12:15 PM	#10 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	I've been asked the same question before. I always ask the person asking for the contact for their contact information since that is who I can get permission immediately. I then forward that information to the target person and let them know they are being asked to contact the requester. Halx never drafted a privacy policy for TFP. I have always operated on the supposition of the privacy policy I drafted for other sites which is pretty comprehensive. I don't give people any information. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-22-2010, 12:44 PM	#11 (permalink)
silent_jay Her Jay Location: Ontario for now....	... Last edited by silent_jay; 02-07-2011 at 02:39 PM..

12-22-2010, 01:04 PM	#12 (permalink)
TheCrimsonGhost Upright Location: Los Angeles, CA	Really? Upset that your email address, which is most likely available publicly on the internet in hundreds of places, got given out without permission? I agree with this Jazz character, it is something that should be decided by the admin, probably with a different outcome in each case, here I don't think the admin acted wrongly. I also don't think there are any laws that prevent ANY site that you use your email address to sign up from giving that email address out... unless somehow this is covered by anti-spam laws, but I don't think so. Either way, I believe the only person in the wrong here, is the person who threw up the private chat logs to try and screw his former friend after the fact.

12-22-2010, 01:15 PM	#13 (permalink)
The_Jazz Asshole Administrator Location: Chicago	Imagine how pleased I am to be referred to as "this Jazz character" by someone that won't bother to read the PM I sent him about his behavior. __________________ "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

12-22-2010, 01:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	Well to be fair, you are a character. I mean c'mon. That's accurate and not slander, or is it libel? I'm mahknoving stuff up. __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

12-22-2010, 02:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	right click. thank you. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

12-25-2010, 01:37 PM	#17 (permalink)
pzadniko Upright	I think this is administrator responsibility, that"s way you must look over user privileges such as privacy policy and user agreements.

12-26-2010, 04:44 PM	#19 (permalink)
Borla Junkie	I'm an admin of a forum with over 25,000 members and almost 13,000,000 posts. If that happened on my board I would tell the banned member that I had to double-check that it was ok to give out the info. I would then PM or email the other member asking for permission to give out their contact info. I don't think it's a HUGE deal to hand out an email address without permission, but it's not something I'd personally due under normal circumstances. __________________ Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde!!!!

12-26-2010, 08:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
gooder Upright Location: Alaska	"No" has its place in these kinds of situations. When they attach electric probes on your nuts and crank the magneto well... maybe it is starting to get into the yes zone... maybe. I would like to think that you would still after you are done screaming and get your breath back that it would be "Hell no" ---------- Post added at 08:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:30 PM ---------- Like this, "Hell NO!! ,,,, ahhhh!!!,,, pant, pant, is That ALL YOU got?? I would rather give up my nuts than give up that e-mail address!!"