tasineah

because we ARENT screen names. We are humans behind screen names. Maybe to you, its all about a cohesive jumble of letters on a forum but to me and probably to some others, I see the human behind the posts. Its why I am here or I would damn well just read a book on the subject of the post. Forums are interactive. WITH PEOPLE.

and for the record, niners, your iq is above a dark chocolate raisenette...

and yelling olly olly oxenfree isnt going to work either when you have a scowl on your face..and thats how it comes off...like a pack of kids, some poking other kids and saying "how come you arent speaking up, huh, bubba?"

yeah...Bubba's gonna talk now, for sure... porn or food...thats what will work. Since neither can be had in cyber then I guess you have to resort to people skills....

Plan9said:

What is so goddamn tough about hiding behind a friggin' username and posting a question or thought? I have questions and thoughts all the time and I've got an IQ similar to a Dark Chocolate Raisinette. This isn't Faceyspace, I'm not going to see your girlfriend or find out where you live. Your boss and your mother shouldn't know about TFP. Come here to post your thoughts, not just to ogle Exhibition or whatever the hell it is that goes on here.[/QUOTE]

Shauk

It wasn't meant as snark really, I don't even use that portion of TFP, not now, not then. I would stop in and see if there was anything worth looking at once in a while but for the most part I just wasn't in the mood for that kind of stuff if I was in the mood to come to TFP in the 1st place. but you said it yourself "it was the front center reasons for many of us being here in the first place"

I was just saying it seems a bit ironic to say that "this attracts people" but have a different model in place than what helped tfp get off the ground with new traffic anyway.

I think the motto that kind of developed out of the "how did you hear about tfp" thread was pretty much "came for the porn, stayed for the conversation"

now it's "came for the.... ?"

I understand the reasons it's offsite now, I was here when it happened. I'm just saying, while it's fair to be disappointed that the site has turned in to what it is at the moment, it's not fair to be disappointed that changing the forum, changed the forum community.

as for inviting people I know, I can't do it. I am a fractured individual. I am a different person for different people. I am all of those facets but not to everyone. I have to reel in certain elements of myself because some people just can't handle it, whatever it be, my bluntness, my taste in music, my sense of humor, etc.. It was hard enough just being myself around my dad after I found out he had been on this site reading everything I had been writing for who knows how long.

Sometimes I'm just blatantly honest about how shitty a friend has been treating me, or a relationship is going. If those people are here, I lose that outlet because I have to begin censoring myself.


It seems to me you guys have the same sort of disconnect going on on this forum that many of the others I've been on have had, basically, my theory is it comes down to the rise of social networking.

People were drawn to forums before the age of myspace/facebook/etc because it was a way to get to converse and meet people online about topics that interested them.

Take the music scene, forums I've been on regarding electronic music as an example have experienced a steep decline in meaningful content, and have also devolved in to pointless posts about what they had for dinner last night or something. Event invitations and flyering have gone social. Get a few facebook social behemoths on your friend list, let say 5 people with 500 friends a piece, they repost your invitation and you've got 2500 people exposed to this invite to your event now.

same thing with any topic really. Create content, post content, watch your friends share content, so on & so on.

anyways, forgot where I was going with all that, Sorry if I came across like a troll.

Pearl Trade

What's a Facebook? I kid. I don't use Facebook, I don't have one and I don't want one. TFP is my online social network for my daily dose of awesome people I've never met.

Post #72 by Plan9 is exactly how I feel. Before TFP, I never heard a Muslim's point of view or saw so many different view points in one website. I think this forum still has great potential to do great things because of what it stands for: intelligent, "call it as you see it" discussion. It's a little off-putting to see so many people here thinking that this place is going down the shitter. Granted, it's only a couple people that think like that compared to the many more who don't, but the negativity won't solve anything. Also, I know it's already been hit on a few times, but keep the porn off. I like to think of TFP as a classy, "pinky out when drinking" forum, and porn would ruin that. Besides, I get my porn off of shady Googled sites that probably infect my computer with more viruses than Carmen Electra. Lame attempt at funny.

Bottom line: TFP and it's group of people (all members) know what needs to be done for the comeback to greatness to take place. Maybe I'm just blinded by the good things I get out of this site, but all we need is some fresh blood to get a few new opinions. And people need to post more about whogivesafuck what.

__________________

Our revenge will be the laughter of our children.
Give me convenience or give me death!

Lasereth

This guy reads 2 novels a week, is more of a computer guru than myself, and doesn't have any sort of cable tv plan.

There's no getting around that TFP has too many sub forums. Back in the day they were needed but not now. It just makes the place look empty.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

The_Jazz

As with most of my responses in these kinds of threads, someone landed exactly on my point but didn't pause to think about it before rushing off to complain about what I said.

There we have it. Either you feel like you're a part of the site or you don't. Most of the time folks go back and forth. That's why I wish someone would define, even roughly, who on the "in" crowd here. And what keeps someone "out". If you don't have the self-confidence to post your opinion on a fairly anonymous message board, clearly we're not your issue.

Here's the deal: the senior staff (admins) spend probably 40 hours a week working on the site, both up front like this and behind the scenes. Personally, I ban 15-20 spammers a week, most of them before they get the chance to post. That's all volunteer work, folks.

Could we be more welcoming of new folks? Absolutely, and we need to be. I wish I had time to personally welcome every single new member (that's not a spammer) but I've got a wife, 2 kids, a job that pays me more than I deserve and, you know, A LIFE. As I usually end up saying in every one of these kinds of threads, if your major complaint includes the staff doing/not doing something, it's entirely within your power to correct that. Unless you're flaming someone (ok, us [ok, me]) while you're "fixing" it (for lack of a better term), we're not going to care.

TFP is exactly what YOU, the member make it. It's not the staff. We put up the framework and make sure that it stays sturdy. It's YOUR job as the member to fill in everything within that framework. How often do we close threads? (Answer: less than 10 this year)

There are some very major changes on the horizon. We need to figure out how some of them are going to mechanically work first, but we're close. We're fixing one huge problem than I'd bet that there aren't more than 5 folks who aren't on staff know even existed. And it will make things so much easier on both the front and back end for us, that it's worth me posting 3 times in the kind of thread that I despise.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Lasereth

So what's the deal with the TFP finances? What makes it take up so much money each month? DB size? Bandwidth? Is there anything that can be done to make the monthly expenses go down?

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

The_Jazz

We've got a shitty deal on server space. We're fixing that.

We've got a shitty deal on bandwith. We're fixing that.

The video chat software was expensive to buy and to run. We can't fix that.

We've been operating at a loss for the last 4 months at least.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Lasereth

Since when is posting a link to a reputable torrent illegal? I don't want TFP hosting anything. But what's wrong with a section or even a single thread with some useful links? The worst that can happen is a threat and then the thread is deleted.

And I donated money to TFP through paypal LOOONG before the porn was gone. Why can't you make a paypal for yourself and just ask people to donate to you instead of the TFP entity?

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

The_Jazz

No, the worst that can happen is that the RIAA or one of their pals accuses of something in court and we have to defend it. There have been sites that have been crushed by that, and we have no interest in joining them. We have no way of effectively policing every torrent, which we would have to do to make sure that none of it is illegal in any of the venues where we have a sizeable number of members.

But maybe you're just complaining about something without being aware of the whole picture:

http://www.tfproject.org/tfp/members...ng-thread.html

1) Paypal changed their tune a few years ago. Maybe your donation was back before they cracked down.
2) Why should I or any other individual have to be responsible for it? Why would you trust us to be?

Lasereth, the porn isn't coming back. If that's a deal killer for you, I'm sorry that you won't be with us down the road. I'll miss you, but I'd rather the site grow into what the majority wants it to be rather than the rather small minority (of which you're a part) wants.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Lasereth

Lol I don't want the porn back. I rarely went to that part of the site. I'm just stating what I believe is best for TFP. I like it off site because now I don't feel like the site is NSFW. But in the end I think it made the site what it was during the higher activity days.

__________________
"A Darwinian attacks his theory, seeking to find flaws. An ID believer defends his theory, seeking to conceal flaws." -Roger Ebert

Cynthetiq

Thanks guys. OCM, the discussion going on since your last post makes my point better than I could. I don't have any issue with your OPs aside from that I don't always get them, but that's fine. What I'd like to emphasize about what I'm specifically pointing at with the post an image threads is that it isn't something that searches very well unless it's something like the zeigfield girls or the cosplay threads. Those are very specific and they drove some extreme traffic to us on several occasions.

There was a group of people that spun off from this site, some of you old timers may remember them. They asked me to come along and I said I couldn't but I would visit them from time to time. As I watched them put their own space together, Prometheus Forums or something like that, likening their claim to having stolen the fire and made a space for themselves. They create a council as their staff to make sure that it was even handed and not dictatorial. They had a technical guy put up the forums. A benefactor to pay for the site and collect donations to keep it afloat.

They had all the same kinds of things we had here, a group of like minded, respectful individuals who wanted to talk to each other. When they asked me my opinion of their setup and how they were doing from an outsider's perspective. I said, how will you get new members? What will attract them to your space? The witty banter that goes back and forth? The creation of new discussions isn't happening and you need to address that.

After a couple of years, I checked in on them and couldn't find their website. Those members that I still keep in contact with, don't know what happened to it, as they got bored and wandered off before it was taken off line. But the moral of this story is about the same as ts's. The forum died. Was facebook the culprit there? No this was years before facebook.

There has to be some give and take to this idea of evolving. It's not just the community but the staff as well, and possibly how we've setup the software.

People have put forth some good ideas and suggestions and each time I have posited these discussions, I've not let them fall by the wayside but pick through them and see what seems feasible enough to work and implement them.

As far as the finances go, Halx always counted on the community to fund this project. There are three ways that forums make their income. Donations, sponsors/ad revenue, and purchase click through.

I know that Halx tried to keep the advertising model away from here. He tried it once and it worked with one banner. The adsense stuff he had took care of a good amount of income and no one ever knew that it existed, even without an adblocker. It was killed because Google had an issue with some adult content not the porn but it still was enough to revoke the adsense account.

As far as paypal is concerned, it was all going to a personal account. Someone flagged it and Halx lost that paypal account and started another. That game was played for some time but now that we don't have the porn it's no longer a problem.

shauk, thanks. I got what you were saying, I was just trying to show how we know each other in a manner of familiarity to ts's point. I too am like you where I'm different person to different people. I don't share TFP with just any of my friends they have to be respectful and open minded enough, and unfortunately there aren't as many people in the world like that as there should be.

back to the finances, the server costs as much as it does because of colocation. We own our server and it needs to rent space in a datacenter. We don't have a great price, but for the traffic we now generate, it's expensive for what it is. I'd like to get better pricing on it, and Halx and I at one point thought of putting TFP into the cloud. I'm not sure we'd fare better pricing with that model, but I do think of how to reduce the costs to something small.

I have been trying to figure out how to switch us to a subscription model so that those that want to donate to us can do so simple and monthly without much hassle. I have to make some adjustments to how we do business, and that's something that is for sure coming.

Right now not only is there the RIAA to be worried about but there are copyright items to be somewhat concerned about. I've been working on it so there is a clear path that needs to be followed and I'll be unveiling that in the next day or so. Unfortunately it does mean I'll be asking for more money because lawyers don't work for free, even when they are my friend. Gas, grass, or ass as the saying goes.

As far as the 4 months thing, Jazz we just crossed the line with just a few hours to spare left in the month. October we've broken even!

re: posting stuff and facebook, I'm just as guilty of that as anyone. Any of the members here who are my FB friends can testify that I've posted more things there then I have here in months. It's so easy with the "Share on Facebook" button. If there was one like that for TFP, it would be excellent. I've been wondering just how I could create such a thing because it would make thread creation that much easier.

I wasn't planning on such a long reply, I just got back from Maine, and I'm tired. It's been a long weekend with all the stuff going on (wedding and finding out my father being hospitalized) and trying to keep up with this and other threads here on TFP.

I like to think that these threads have become less adversarial and more about the community understanding what is happening and how we as members (remember staff is a member first and a staffer second) should deal with the challenges we're faced. I like to think of it as no different than those "help I don't know what to do with my girlfriend who wants to break up with me" type of threads. I've got to get some rest now.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

Starkizzer

Threads like this show that we can still have a discussion, quite a lengthy one at that. When it is something people care about the responses are more thought out and less joke oriented. At least this shows we do still care about the forum.

__________________
Frivolity, at the edge of a Moral Swamp, hears Hymn-Singing in the Distance and dons the Galoshes of Remorse. ~Edward Gorey

Willravel

Why do we have a video chat? I can't remember the last time I checked on it and there was someone else there. The only difference between TFP video chat and, say, AIM or Skype is that TFP is in my browser (thus slower) and is grainer. And no one is ever on.

Do you need help with finding a reliable host? I can ask around if you are serious (and 4 months of loss seems serious to me).

Plan9

Yeah, I'm with Will. Video chat is expensive and mostly abandoned except for Saturday nights (?).

The last few months I went in there, I was alone for the bulk of the time. Somebody correct me.

I think when TinyChat was first stood up it was novel and got a lot of play because it hadn't been done.

But then people got pissed off when others actually talked in VideoChat and that whole nudity thing.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Martian

I can vouch that the chat room gets used daily, because I'm in there daily. Granted, we could probably do just fine with IRC, but the video chat is a great extra for our community and I'm very much in favour of it.

I'd also be all for a subscription model. I don't even think it needs to confer any extras, necessarily -- I'd be willing to kick $10 or so per month your way simply because it needs doing. I've actually been thinking about tossing another $50 or so in the collection plate once I get things settled here, but if there's serious work being done on a subscription model I'll reduce that and sign up for the monthly plan when it's available. I'm sure there are others in the community who'd be just as willing to take on a share of the cost for this place, though I wouldn't presume to actually speak for anyone. Can we get the full costs covered that way? I have no idea, but at the very least it'll reduce the amount needed from the nag-o-meter.

The finances are important, but I think it's equally important to not let this detract from our main point of discussion -- without content, we're funding an empty box.

I guess Baraka_Guru's got the heart of it, though -- we're in the realm of Nike. Just Do It. Good, bad or indifferent, more posts gives more discussion points leads to more members. Maybe my Canadian internet thread would help to attract fellow Canadian nerds Or maybe it'll die after one post. Either way, it might as well go up.

So yeah, I'll do that in the next day or so, and try to get stuff more often.

All of this bickering and bullshit really doesn't get us anywhere. You think you know what TFP should be? Great! Get out there and start making it that.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Craven Morehead

Essentially this is about activation. Getting members to participate more frequently and with greater depth. However looking at it only from a member perspective may leave larger gains untouched. As I type this, there are 326 users online of which only 25 are members! Last night I saw similar numbers. I assume its pretty much like this all the time. Why? Why won't the nonregistered viewers join and participate? About 8% of the viewers are members meaning no more than 8% of the viewers of TFP will ever participate. There is a much greater potential in getting the nonregistered activated and participating than trying to squeeze more out of the members.

And along these lines, what has caused so many active members to fade off and disappear? There are several members that I enjoyed reading that no longer are involved. Why did they leave? Is there any way of finding out? As important as gaining new active participants its even more important to maintain the group that is here. Membership churn will not accomplish anything.

I realize the points I bring up are more rhetorical than anything as active members can't answer for those who aren't members nor for those who are no longer active, but it does seem to me that those two groups should also be considered when searching for answers.

roachboy

i've been thinking about this thread from time to time. like alot of folk my 4-space life is busier than i'd like it to be and that's forced changes in my usage of alot of things, including tfp. since everything is a function of one's perspective, i figure it's important to note changes at that level first.

so i've got more stuff going on, sometimes as stuff to do sometimes as stuff to avoid, but there we are.

the community---well, the subcommunity that i swim about in mostly, which centers on politics---that sub-community feels really small these days. and it's difficult to have terribly intricate discussions that aren't like snowball fights, two lines of boys hurling things at each other. sometimes it's possible, but usually not so much.

and i'm a part of why that happens....i like to think that's not the case....and sometimes it's not. ... but other times it is. that bothers me a little, that does. it leads to one of those chicken-egg questions, whether the change is in me or in the community or in the broader world and it's obviously all the above but in no particular mixture.

for myself, i would like to be part of moving discussions about politics forward, toward something else, but sometimes it feels like it's just not going to go. the only way forward seems to do like beckett sez: try again. fail. start again. fail better.

the problem with political discussion at the moment is likely a function of the small, relatively self-contained sub-community that frequents that space. it seems that this group shares a preference for a different kind of engagement from what happens in other forums, even as they way we collectively use that preference is to pelt each other with snowballs and such. political discussion could always use more folk. and while it's often a bit rough and tumble and gets exasperating for everyone (i've no doubt of that) at one point or another, it is an interesting crew.
but more people, more threads=mo better.


there's also the bigger Situation Problem and its reflection(s) in how political discourse works, particularly in the states. when the cliche was coined "may you not live in interesting times" what i think it meant was that periods that historians and other people who get for whatever reason to make such determinations after the fact decide is an "interesting time" is experienced by the people who live through it as incoherent, difficult, problematic to stage clearly, difficult to think through or about.
and these are interesting times we live in.
if a generalized incoherence proves anything at all, it's that.

btw--i dont know how one would go about correlating messageboard usage with that of other social media. it doesn't seem to me that a messageboard does the same things as facebook or twitter at all, so imagine them as operating in parallel worlds rather than as mutually exclusive. but then again, i don't play farmville so maybe i dont really understand anything about how facebook can eat time.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Jinn

I had to stay away from this thread because I felt like I couldn't post maturely on it - I'm still not certain I can. The OP reads like a threat, like "if you don't post more content I'm taking away your toys" sort of threat. For whatever reason I respond really poorly to threats, and I usually egg on the person threatening me, to my own detriment.

With that said, I couldn't really see what the problem was from the numbers posted. Is it that there are not enough *different* voices, or just that there aren't enough voices in general? I think we attract a certain type of person and so I tend to think we mostly agree on everything except contentious topics like religion and politics. If that causes a sense of stagnation (not enough disagreement) than that is entirely a different problem of not having enough posts.

I'm not really sure what can be done in terms of more threads, more post, more new people because I really don't like the idea that people would start threads or posts just to appear more busy than it really is. That seems awfully artificial. If it's *only* a monetary concern, that's another matter entirely. I'd support a 'subscription' thing, so long as it didn't make it seem like an even more exclusive 'insider/outsider' thing than we've already got people arguing exists. TFP is as good of as any other charity to donate to, as far as I'm concerned. Some of the advice I've have received here (and continue to receive) is far cheaper than a psychologist would be. It'd be a high ROI for me, if I look at it entirely selfishly.

__________________
"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel

Xazy

I can say I have seen the problem slowly creeping up for a while. I just think in some ways this thread is best used to make us aware of the fact that the new threads were declining. And if we do value this forum (which I do), we should post.

There are definitely a lot of people who just read the forum, without participating. That is their choice, but if we do not participate ever, the forum will continue to decline.

Since this post was started, just look at how many new topics threads were started. I just take this as a boost for the engine.

__________________
Now, a clever man would put the poison into his own goblet, because he would know that only a great fool would reach for what he was given. I am not a great fool, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you. But you must have known I was not a great fool, you would have counted on it, so I can clearly not choose the wine in front of me.

Plan9

Guilt-powered?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Cynthetiq

It isn't a monetary thing. It's about contribution. I spend a lot of time making sure that mechanically and technically this place hums along nicely. If the community doesn't want to participate, I can't force them to just like they can't force me to continue to operate the place.

I think your post is just fine and not problematic at all. The title of the thread had to be provocative, otherwise, people won't read it or participate in it.

Thanks, I've noted that you've been posting more threads even before I brought his up. It's much appreciated.

It usually has a spike when it's mentioned, both donations and calls for activity.
Some that left I still talk to in other venues like Facebook. For some an off the cuff remark from some member was enough to walk away, others just didn't find it interesting any more. It's hard to build regulars be it any business that hold for over 5 years.

I'm not really searching for answers to why they left. I'd like to just encourage those that stay to do more than lurk. Forums are like life, it's a participatory thing. It gets more interesting when you participate instead of just watch.

__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not.

CinnamonGirl

That's why I didn't respond at first... then I took a few days to really think about it, and about reasons why I don't contribute as much.

Part of it was personal...there were a couple of threads a while back where I got a very "well, your opinion sucks, and you're wrong" vibe from a couple different people. I stopped posting in those threads, and avoided those people in other threads as well.

Part of it was facebook. I have about 30 TFP members listed as friends, so things I'd cross-post in the past, I won't now... repetition and all that. ("most of the people that would respond have already done so on facebook.")

And part of it is just life. Huge change in my life went down in June (for those of you who don't know, if there are any , I moved to NC from Ohio.) New job, new living arrangements, new town, new dog... major transition period for me, and I tended to shy away from everything and everyone, online and off.


Goodness, I'm starting to ramble. Anyway, those are my reasons, which I suspect aren't all that different from other people's reasons. Changing the site won't help that. I'm really hoping there aren't any drastic changes, because I love TFP the way that it is. So, while I'm not a huge fan of the way this was worded (sorry, cynth), the point is, indeed, taken.

__________________
"...for though she was ordinary, she possessed health, wit, courage, charm, and cheerfulness. But because she was not beautiful, no one ever seemed to notice these other qualities, which is so often the way of the world."


"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?"

RogueGypsy

I haven't been here long, so I find it hard to define a specific group or clique, but I still feel it every time I'm here. I agree with many of the previous points concerning clique vs. everyone else. It may just be these individuals share a common opinion on many subjects or maybe they're just a$$holes. I don't know. In RL they may be and likely are some of the coolest people I'd know. On the internet, your Trolls.

I found this forum with the search phrase: ''obscure point of view". What I found was a core of a few individuals who enjoy shoving their opinion down every ones throat. While attacking anyone with a different point of view. WTF?? I was looking for a diverse group of non-mainstream people conversing and expressing their opinions in an environment conducive to being different. If that's not the intent of the forum, fine, I'll look elsewhere, but it sure reads like diversity is the intent. Not the opinions of a few vs. those less able to express themselves clearly.

I understand most of what's posted is likely not intended to read the way it does, but this is the internet. Sarcasm doesn't translate. So make your intent known.

-------------------------------------------
Average TFP post:

4: Hey, I found a six dicked frog on my front porch this morning. Take a look.
pic: frog ic

2: That's not a six dicked frog, that's a hermaphroditic toad in menses. Know your facts before you post.

3: Yeah, idiot.

2: Can you believe how stupid everyone else is?

6: No shit, what a fuckin' moron.

4: I looked it up and that was the closest pic I could find to the actual frog.

8: quote "Can you believe how stupid everyone else is?" quote
Learn some Grammar

7: In Canada they're all 5 dicked frogs. A Blue Moose Caterpillar ate the phalanges off the genome of the first ever group to migrate this far north. They've since evolved to become 5 dicked frogs to avoid the Blue Moose Caterpillar.

2: Did you see the Jackalope on Oblaba head at the rally?

6: That was great!

2: (unrelated pic)

6: (unrelated pic)

3: (unrelated pic)

9: That is definitely a 6 dicked frog, I have four on my kitchen table right now! Know your facts idiot!
pic: retard in a wheel chair ic

2: $&*%^ It was the RED moose caterpillar that nearly wiped out the first northern migration of the six dicked frog. And that has nothing to do with this conversation we're talking about Toads and Jackalopes.

8: You're all wrong, that's a lizard.
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Who wants to be the OP?


This forum has the potential to be incredible, but as in life, there are always a few who are so lonely and sad. They have to turn to the internet for their self satisfying mental masturbation at the expense of others. Most don't even realize it because they have no social skills, some do and just do it out of spite. Yeah, I know it sucked for you growing up. Everyone teased you, beat you up, took your lunch money. Get over it. Grow up. Evolve.

I'm slowly coming to believe that this forum is over run by highly intelligent, 13yo's with nothing better to do than mock others and flog their frogs on the WWW.

Other than that, the premise is awesome, it's the application that's lacking.

Let the feathers fly.


Oh yeah and the 'sign in' times out way too fast. I don't think I've ever made a post that I didn't have to 'copy', 'sign in', 'paste'. To actually post.

__________________
Methods, application and intensity of application vary by the individual. All legal wavers must be signed before 'treatment' begins. Self 'Medicating' is not recommend. However, if necessary, it is best to have an 'assistant' or 'soft landing zone' nearby. Any and all legal issues resulting from improperly applied techniques should be forwarded to: Dewy, Cheatum & Howe, Intercourse, PA 17534. Attn: Anonymous.

Martian

Can you point to an example of this dynamic in action? I don't recall having seen any recent threads that have gone this way. Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places.

I've heard about this clique, but never been able to actually pin it down. Maybe I'm too deep inside or something, I don't know.

__________________
I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept
I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept
I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head
I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said

- Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame

Ourcrazymodern?

^^
If you were "looking for a diverse group of non-mainstream people conversing & expressing their opinions in an environment conducive to being different," I daresay you've found it. My level of confidence in saying that is undiminished.
...Probably you should edit your "Average TFP post?"
This pot's calling the kettle <sarcasm>.

__________________
BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

tasineah

waves to Rogue Gypsy.... welcome!

RogueGypsy

Aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh Haaaaaaaaaaaaaa, so someone can translate sarcasm. I stand corrected.

What do you have against 6 dicked frogs?

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

waving back!

---------- Post added at 05:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:16 PM ----------

There may not be any recent posts, I haven't posted in a while due to encountering too many in the past. Look back 12-18 months and you'll find them. I believe that's also about the same time the OP says things took a down turn. I, like many others, will avoid confrontation when possible and the topic of this thread supports this. If I want monkeys throwing feces, I'll go to the zoo.

Like I said above, I can't seem to define a specific clique. So if you're in it, you'd have to tell me.



If I do need to edit my "6 dicked frog" commentary, I can certainly do that. I was unaware the TFP was PG-13. If it is, my bad. Most forums that are, moderate language automatically informing the user of inappropriate language. Let me know.

__________________
Methods, application and intensity of application vary by the individual. All legal wavers must be signed before 'treatment' begins. Self 'Medicating' is not recommend. However, if necessary, it is best to have an 'assistant' or 'soft landing zone' nearby. Any and all legal issues resulting from improperly applied techniques should be forwarded to: Dewy, Cheatum & Howe, Intercourse, PA 17534. Attn: Anonymous.

ring

The French are allowed to flog their own frogs dammit!

The_Jazz

Rogue Gypsy, we don't have any rules about language other than flaming and trolling. Curse all you want. Or don't.

What I gather from your responses is that you don't have any examples for your hypothetical threads and that you can't define any clique. Which makes it very hard for anyone to understand exactly what it is you're talking about.

What am I missing?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Willravel

There's no reason to get defensive.

I think I understand the clique thing. Most cliques develop without people inside of it noticing. As roachboy mentioned above, there's almost certainly a clique in TFPolitics, though no one in it intended for it to happen.

roachboy

well, there's not exactly a clique.
people don't really get along all that well. but there's a consistent population. so a community i guess.

a clique is more exclusionary. if what's being referred to here by "clique" is just a consistent group that post to the same space, then the word's being misused in a way that might be creating more static than anything else.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Plan9

I have no idea where the thread that RogueGypsy is playing off of is located, but I want to party with those guys.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

Willravel

Yes, but think about how that environment might be for a newcomer. I'm not saying it's intentional, I'm just saying we might be accidentally exclusionary.

LazyBoy

Sadly, this is a trend that has been seen on most forums across the internet. I'm outdated, so I do not know what the "new" thing is....but I am a member of probably 50-100 forums, and ALL of the large ones have basically died.

I think forums have surpassed their peak, as bad as I hate to admit it. I own one, and I have seen the same.

As odd as it sounds, it really seems like the internet communities have started to plateau or decline....including places like myspace and whatnot.

The new generation skipped the forums....the the mature users have slowly tapered off.

It makes me nervous, because last time I added it up I have a quarter million posts on forums.....but in 5 years I do not know how many will be left.

__________________
Life is nothing, everything.....and something in between...

mixedmedia

I believe the 'clique' people are referring to is simply the group of regulars who (even though they might not all like each other) interact with each other consistently due to familiarity and a bit of a camaraderie-type feeling. Those who are new to the community are largely left out of those exchanges, you can't deny it, and it's those exchanges that make you feel like you are a part of the community. Having been fairly 'close' to this site in the past, leaving a couple of times and coming back a couple of times, I think I'm in a pretty good position to attest to the truth of this phenomena. The flack that is being raised seems to be coming more from the folks who want to disallow the existence of said 'clique' (which probably isn't the most accurate description...in fact, I like comrades) than the folks who are saying 'um, yeah it does.' It's not anyone's fault. It's just the way it is.

And I imagine that the majority of the most frequent contributors here went through a phase as newcomers when they didn't feel so much a part of things, but then one day, maybe without even noticing it, they did. That's the way it was for me. I think I've written that about a dozen times here on similar threads. So instead of telling newcomers they are wrong for feeling 'outside the fun' most of the time, you should acknowledge that it's normal and encourage them to be patient and keep posting.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Cat_Eyes

Hi,

New person here.

The first post I jumped into and this is it~ Karma loves to smack me around.

Anyway, I chose this place from several others because it had a mix of topics. Several topics I want to read about and others I want to laugh about...

Sorry to say, I am not a big OP but I will comment- in terrible English, mores the pity.

This is only my second non game related forum. Be gentle.

Reese

I'd hate to see TFP go away. This place has been has helped me out in so many ways. Unfortunately, I just don't have to patience to keep up with a 3-5 page forum thread anymore. I pretty much use Ventrilo for all my conversations now. It's faster and easier than typing in a chat room and more personal than a forum discussion while not being invasive like a webcam. I honestly don't know why Vent isn't more popular with non-gaming communities.

__________________
“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry

Plan9

So, basically:

TFP: "Evolve or TFP dies."

TFPers: "But that's too much work!"

America: Fuck Yeah.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

RogueGypsy

Well I went looking for some of the threads that brought this to mind. Most were in the political section. Which in itself is volatile, but it's where I've spent most of my time here. Unfortunately while the forum lists 4618 posts, only 29 appear. Basically October??? Don't know what's up with that. So you're on your own with that one, as it occurred to me as I was looking, that you had just done what I was talking about.

I simply stated my opinion, which several others seemed to understand, but you returned with a statement suggesting I'd just made it up in order to troll the thread. So there's you example, mild as it may be.

As to a clique existing. Maybe it's just seeing the same 8 or so people replying to each others posts in threads, seemingly disregarding the OP and other posters. Maybe they just like to chat amongst themselves, but to someone not of the 8, it appears to be an elitist clique. Regardless, do as you will.

Interestingly enough, my post being a response to the OP, leads me to wonder why you responded in the way you did? Is it perhaps that you see the same thing, but from another side? What is it that compels an individual to respond directly to a post if it has nothing to do with them?



---------- Post added at 11:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:16 PM ----------


You Sir, are an Ass. Never change, that's awesome.

---------- Post added at 11:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 PM ----------

I absolutely agree. I'm not sure if this was a response to me or not, but the above 'average TFP thread' was based on my experience in the politics section. I should have titled it 'Average TFPolitics thread'.

__________________
Methods, application and intensity of application vary by the individual. All legal wavers must be signed before 'treatment' begins. Self 'Medicating' is not recommend. However, if necessary, it is best to have an 'assistant' or 'soft landing zone' nearby. Any and all legal issues resulting from improperly applied techniques should be forwarded to: Dewy, Cheatum & Howe, Intercourse, PA 17534. Attn: Anonymous.

Xerxys

No. I will not let you do that. You claimed that TFP engages in such distasteful behavior so the onus is on you to provide evidence of said performance. I will echo OCM and say, once again, TFP is the exact opposite of what you posited in your little "frog" commentary. Sarcasm intended or not, you were taking a shot.

Otherwise your just trolling us and we probably shouldn't engage.