human_v2

Hey guys. This is my first post. I'm not sure why this community was not brought to my attention sooner, but I'm already sure I'll like it here. Anyway, I thought I'd start things off with something I wrote earlier today. I'd like to know what you think and what we can do to change things.

My Manifesto:

I'm disgusted with the world we live in today. I hope you are too.
If You're not, I bet you drive an SUV living the all American dream of being
dreadfully lazy. You pay people to do everything for you. I'm sick of it, and
you need to stop.

What the United States has become is a disgrace. Employees demand to be paid so
much money so they can afford their $250,000 houses with their $40,000 cars.
Companies make so much money because their customers get paid so much. Their
customers and their employees are the same group of people. This is called
inflation.

While this problem is self-solving, as you can see with the current state of
our nation's economy, perhaps we could not be so selfish this time around?
We are all one people, but you depend on us to do the work for you. We fix your
car, we deliver your mail, we run your websites, we build your electric
toothbrushes, we serve your coffee, we make sure you have the internet and cable
and electric and water just so you can live the happy lives you're living.

At OUR expensive.

If you haven't guessed yet, we are your children, your grandchildren, geeks and
fast food employees, mechanics and janitors, and everyone else that does
something you don't know how or don't want to do. We're in the information age
now. Adapt or perish. You are not immune to the laws of nature, especially the
most important: survival of the fittest. We are tired of dragging you along with
us.

You are impeding our progress.

If you would like to do absolutely nothing all day, that is fine with us. But right
now we can't do that because we don't yet have the technology. You're trying to
give science a bad name in the classroom because it conflicts with your 2000 year
old mythology. We would be happy to give you anything you desire, for free even,
if you would only let us.

We're also tired of the way you've let the government get woefully out of control.
You sat back and let the very communism you were so terrified of during the Cold
War creep up right behind you, disguised as a Patriot with a flag and a Bible.
They've gladly sacrificed your freedoms for your security for you. What do you
care? You've still got the internet and cable. You can just sit in your little box
and look out the windows of these devices to the world that you live in.

Our current plan has obviously not worked. We need to switch to a new plan. I have
a plan that I'm certain will work, but things must be done properly.

My demands:

1. All information shall be freely available to anyone that asks for it. That means
your bank account, your social security numbers, your mother's maiden name and all
sixteen digits of your visa and mastercard.

They use these numbers to label us, to fit us in neat little rows into their
databases on the servers that we keep running 24 hours a day. They scare you into
keeping these numbers hidden away because their system doesn't work if everyone
has everyone else's numbers.

This means trade secrets and patents as well. I don't care if your company collapses
because your patent is public information. Your company should rely on product
integrity and customer support to stay in business. Not secrets.

This means government classified information. The public should know what our
corrupt politicians are doing behind closed doors. And if the rest of the world can
keep tabs on us, they should have no reason to worry about whether or not we are
planning to attack them. No more secrets is the key to secure nation.

2. 50% (Fifty percent) of your total income shall go to education, health care, both
receiving 25% each of the initial 50% alottment, 5% for law enforcement, and the
rest going to scientific research.

These are the only things you actually need. We can pay for those things right now,
we just need to stop spending it on wars on the people, drugs and terrorism. You
might say 50% is a lot, but you only bring home approximately 65% as it is. Now that
you're living efficiently, you don't need all that money anyway.

This way, we can stop giving money to the silly politicians that are wasting our hard
earned dollars to play war in our backyard with real weapons.

3. There will be no government regulation of business. You may have thought it was a
good idea to grant monolopies to the utility companies so they would build
infrastructure, but supply and demand would have caught up eventually and the
networks would have been built by competition anyway.

You might say that our products would harm us if the government did not intervene.
However, with your cell phone, you have instant communication with anyone on earth,
so if you got sick or injured from a product that is unregulated, then the whole
world will know not to buy that product. Word of mouth is the only reliable regulator.

4. The highest crime in the land will be prejudice and discrimination. Every individual
on the planet is unique and you need to accept them the way they are. If you don't like
them, move on with your life and do not engage in theirs. Judging people based on skin
color or religion is intolerable in this day in age.

You may practice whatever religion or do any drug you want, so long as you're not
interfering with someone else's ability to do the same. In short, we need to stop
trying to get everyone to be like ourselves. Be happy with who you are. The most
forgotten people in history are the ones that were just like everyone else.

</DEMANDS>

The human race can achieve anything, if you would only let us.

Xerxys

Didn't read it all, how is this not spam?

Punk.of.Ages

I did read the whole thing. How is this spam?!

It may belong in a different area, such as Literature, Politics, or Economics, but OP's new to the board man. Give 'em a break.

******************************************

Now, I don't understand economics, and I stay away from politics, but on the creativity side of this, I think it is well written and clearly lays out your beliefs in a very attention grabbing way.

__________________
"The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion..." - Henry Steel Commager

"Punk rock music is great music played by really bad, drunk musicians." -Fat Mike

SSJTWIZTA

feel better now?

edit: want to join a band?

__________________
First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist
Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me.
-Pastor Martin Niemoller

dlish

how is this not communism?

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

Manic_Skafe

Come on guys, first ten people to read the entire original post win a year long subscription to Adbusters.

I can agree that this country was bought and sold to corporations and that most of us are too easily pacified by great technological promises of nothing and the old ideas of making it to realize that we're getting the shit end of the stick.

I get that this is a manifesto rather than a plan of action but much of what you've proposed contradicts itself and is far too idealistic to jive with me.

__________________
"Porn is a zoo of exotic animals that becomes boring upon ownership." -Nersesian

World's King

I'm so confused.


Who are you? Why should we pay attention? And I think you have this placed pegged wrong.

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heavy is the head that wears the crown

ring

hey, he says he is going to like it here.

Welcome fellow human.

oliver9184

These ideas are not new. They have been tried and they do not work.

human_v2

spam? not so much. New ideas? probably not. impossible? Absolutely not.

The world I envision for humanity is very idealistic. For those of you that say 'too much idealism', I say that you've got a closed mind, despite what you may think. Idealism is simplistic perfection. Are we incapable of achieving perfection?

What happens when everything in the world is free? We invent some little machine that creates anything with the touch of a button. What do people have to fight over then?

You may think a world in which everything is free is Communism. Perhaps, but communism isn't inherently evil, nor is socialism. It just so happens that they have not yet been implemented properly, and by properly, I mean in such a fashion that it 'jives' with westerners.

I want everyone to have everything they want... for free. Technology will bring us to this IF YOU LET US. 'You' being the people that say it can't be done, the people that are trying to prevent it from happening. The ones with limited imagination. If possibilities are endless, so must be the imagination.

Oh, and sorry I put this in the wrong category and all that, I didn't mean to offend you by being such a noob. hope you can forgive me =)

Plan9

Host?

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pan6467

Welcome and glad you enjoy it here. Hopefully, you'll stay and add more posts like this one.

__________________
I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

Plan9

Colorful manifesto, OP. Are we to argue issues / perceived flaws?

There is way too much "collective individualism" in there for my taste.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

pan6467

It sounds like a warped combo of conservativism and moderate liberalism... I kinda like what he/she has to say.

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

dlish

me too....but id like to see a shorter argument from the OP with less points to discuss. it'llget messy discussing too many issues.

if we could have a few points to argue instead of your life long aspirations, it would really help this thread along. maybe your top 5..and then move from there.

what do yu think human_v2?

__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere

I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay?
- Filthy

ratbastid

Ah, the arrogance of youth.

I say that with no condescension at all: I think it's a great thing that has moved the world vastly forward over the ages. Enjoy it while you've got it, my friend, and welcome to TFP.

Mephex

I enjoy the stream of consciousness this post brings to light. Being 30'ish, I feel young again. I can feel the anger, the frustration. As time passes, loops, flows and ebbs. These bits of unconformity need to arise. Let's see where it leads.

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He who is void of virtuous attachments in private life is, or very soon will be, void of all regard for his country.
There is seldom an instance of a man guilty of betraying his country, who had not before lost the feeling of moral obligations in his private connections.
-Samuel Adams

Plan9

I'm cynical. I see these types of sophomoric freedom fighter thoughts all the time.

Upper middle class discontents that play the part-time role of what they despise most.

They're all talk. Witty banter to bare walls and like-minded philosophy consumers.

Brooding discussion over Starbucks before they pile into their dad's Acura RSX.

Blueprints for the disassembly of the upper class cancer? 404 Error.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

human_v2

Assume what you wish, but isn't that sort of like the pot calling the kettle black? You think I'm some emo punk that rides to school in their mom's minivan because the bus is so totally following everyone else? Indeed, I am not. I'm a member of the just failed out of college (engineering is hard!), shitty job that gets me by crowd.

To solve the problem you speak of, we need big changes. We need freedom of information to start with. If you want true individuality, then dispose of the numbers assigned to you. Give them to everyone you know: social, drivers license, credit cards, account numbers, etc etc etc.

If everyone has everyone else's numbers, we can no longer be held responsible for those numbers and they no longer identify us at that point. We're no longer all the same group of numbers and statistics. Once everyone is unique, they will no longer be sheep, and would perhaps start thinking for themselves.

Freedom of information would do away with the patent office. I hope I don't need to explain why patents are a bad thing. Companies should not rely on patents to stay successful. The current model destroys innovation and new ideas.

So I guess my only real point in this is to free all the information in the world. No more secrets. We need to trust each other. It's time to be responsible for ourselves. Fuck the people that can't do anything on their own, the ones that need the government holding their hand to cross the street.

spectre

While some of your points are valid, overall, this is, at best, naive.

First of all, considering the way you want to handle all of this proposed change, that's an extremely weak way of making your argument. It's basically doing exactly what you claim to hate: manipulating people into agreeing with your narrow viewpoint. "Agree with me, or you're a piece of shit!" That does not work very well when you're trying to argue for people to start thinking for themselves.

You're right, communism has failed every time it has been implemented. Why is that? Because someone has to lead that sort of revolution and that person leading is in a position of absolute control. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely." Being in power tends to make people jaded. They see those who aren't in power as being too stupid to control their own lives. That's where you end up with a situation like North Korea where you have an insane man making insane demands towards his people to serve his own ego and agenda, neither of which serves the people he is supposed to be leading towards the "communist ideal."

Communism can't work because we're selfish by nature. Even when we act in a seemingly unselfish way, it's almost always because we do it to make ourselves feel good. It's not to say that we should stop, but it's still a selfish motivation. I think that's why communism can never work. It naively assumes that all people can simultaneously give up their innate selfish nature. That just isn't going to happen.

This statement assumes that everyone is good and by just being open, they'll change their wicked ways. I agree, governments should be more transparent and open, but in the end, people that act like assholes will still act like assholes. No amount of openness will change that. As to the hand holding, that does happen with some people too and they do need a kick in the ass to grow the fuck up, but, there are those that are genuinely in need of it, and those are the ones the government should continue to help.

__________________
"Fuck these chains
No goddamn slave
I will be different" ~ Machine Head

Plan9

Okay... the numbers thing?

Numbers are used to give our qualitative lives quantitative meaning. A society without numbers has no structure, much like a plant cell without a cell wall.

I am numbered. I am titled. These things do not define who I am, there are merely references, handholds, road signs. People think they're bad.

I like to think of these constructs as being similar to gravity. Sure, gravity holds you down... but you wouldn't be able to do much on Earth without it.

That and everything our lord and savior, Spectre, has revealed above.

__________________
Whatever you can carry.

"You should not drink... and bake."

C4Fan

Seldom do I become embroiled in these internet pissing contests, there's simply no future in it, but some thoughts........

While I don't drive an SUV, I do own a brace of sports cars of which I'm sure you would not approve. My home is valued considerably above your arbitrary figure, thank you very much.

I'm not bragging here, just stating some facts. By the grace of God, I've achieved my place in life (society)......

and here's the part that people with views such as yours never grasp......

not by being "dreadfully lazy" as you so accuse, or by demanding that others (or the government) support me, but by working my ass off. I suggest you consider the concept.

I worked hard in college. The shitty jobs I had then paid my way through school; a means to an end. Good luck in supporting yourself now with YOUR shitty job. Enjoy.

Perhaps if you had spent the time, energy, and resources you have devoted to writing your "manifesto" on studying in college, you would not have flunked out. I do, however, admire your honesty in stating you flunked out of college. Your personal failure speaks volumes as to your writings and your manifesto.

And now you want society to support you by providing you with free information. How very typical of those spouting forth your views. I remember this same crap being espoused by the drop outs and flunk outs back in the 60's. I assure you, your thoughts are not original and are very poorly presented.

The socialism and communism you embrace will never succeed. This has been proven time after time over the course of history because of the simple nature of human beings. I have neither the desire or energy to continue THAT debate; just my opinion. Take a look at your history books.

One closing thought;

Your user ID suggests you take some pride in being identified as the "human" v2. The v2 rocket killed thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands, of innocent civilians when deployed by Germany in WWII.

Somehow I don't find it surprising that you take pride or find satisfaction in that fact.

dan

The_Jazz

Ah, youth is wasted on the young....

I could have written your "rant" 20 years ago. I probably did write something like it at one point or another, although it was certainly couched in much more obvious Marxist-Leninist terms.

You would hate me now, especially since I've far exceeded your numbers. Just like C4Fan, I've worked hard at a job I love. I'd probably work for a lot less, but I'll admit that the payoffs are very nice.

I pay more than my fair share of taxes, and I don't try to hide anything or weasel out of what I rightfully owe. And if you think that's irresponsible, sorry, kid. Wait until you get a dose of real life. It sounds like you haven't had that yet.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

SecretMethod70

I'm pretty sure the user means human version 2

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Le temps détruit tout

"Musicians are the carriers and communicators of spirit in the most immediate sense." - Kurt Elling

C4Fan

Secretmethod,

I'll have to plead ignorance here.

Perhaps this is a reference to terms the young people use.

Anyway, a short history lesson for our friend.

Thanks,
dan

fresnelly

We fight over who gets the little machine.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

human_v2

And if that little machine could make other little machines just like it, wouldn't everyone have one sooner or later? I'll agree that I may be slightly naive about all of this, but only because if everyone accepted the world for what it is, it would never change.

so go ahead and accept everything as you see it, but i'd rather sound naive than accept defeat before trying

Lindy

I think we should all step back and let you take over the world right away. Right now, while you still know everything.

Lindy

Poppinjay

Oh stop it. I was like that back in my 20's and now I'm perfect! Except for a period when I owned a Jeep and crushed flowers and precious voles with it.

Don't worry. I'm an eco-modder now and get about 50mpg. And a vole could probably crush my car.

At any rate, we all change and modify our views over time. As much as the world claims different faiths, taoism reigns over us all. We change as our experiences shape us. Until about 70 or so and then we pat waitresses on the ass and wonder aloud about all these funny names people have these days. And the baggy pants!

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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet