genuinegirly

"The key to solving the food supply problem, of course, is to control population growth on a global scale."


This is a quote from Stern's Introductory Plant Biology textbook, edition 9. This statement is found on page 257 amidst a chapter on plant breeding and propagation.


What do you think of this statement?
Do you agree or disagree?
Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?
Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?
Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?
What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?
Do you think there is a food crisis?
Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?

My opinion follows after this black line. I am sharing my opinion on this matter because I believe there will be many people on this board who disagree with my perspective. I hope that those who agree with me also take time to write a little something. Please feel free to disagree with me. If you do disagree, please help me to understand your perspective.
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What do you think of this statement?
I am horrified by it.
Do you agree or disagree?
Disagree
Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?
Yes. The way it is worded leads one to believe that there is only one way to getting enough food out to everyone in the world.
Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?
No.
Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?
Yes. I do not feel that this particular textbook is any place for a statement of this sort. I glanced over it the first time I read the chapter, but on my second read it stood out to me like a red flag. I was horrified. It's thrown in there with no context, and in a matter-of-fact fashion. It seems almost like a subliminal message. If the student does catch the offending sentence, they are likely to think that this is an accepted philosophy shared by all plant scientists - which it definitely is not.
What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?
Raised in an environment where I saw lots of big families, and how functional they can be. Saw the declining populations in Europe and the harsh Chinese policies against large families. See that few of my aquaintances choose to have children. See that America is headed for a declining population and don't know if it's a good thing. See that much pressure is put on young adults to not have children and find it exceptionally unhealthy. See the media focus on unstable, unhealthy large families and wonder if sane, competant adults can have large families anymore - if there is too much of a negative spin on even moderate-size families.
Do you think there is a food crisis?
Honestly? I think there's an issue with getting food transported to the locations where it is needed. There is a significant amount of food wasted. There are people who readily eat too much. There are people who can't access food. There are political leaders who prohibit foreign aid. There are parts of this world where logistically it's difficult to get food to them before it rots. There is enough. There isn't enough in all the right places.
Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?
Developing more and diverse crop plants. Cultivating and breeding native plants in the arid regions where typical crop plants can't survive. Encouraging non-clonal methods of crop propagation to allow for more genetic variation.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

braisler

The simple answer to a global food crisis is to emphasize vegetarianism. It is significantly more efficient to feed a person on grains and vegetables, than on meat.

Controlling population growth is usually euphemistically couched statement of us vs. them. The 'global' population needs to be controlled we shout out the window of our SUVs as we gobble down a fast food burger.

__________________
---
You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.
- Albert Einstein
---

roachboy

What do you think of this statement?

not a fan of neo-malthus. so easy to say, such a disaster if taken seriously.

Do you agree or disagree?
Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?

the statement leaves out so much that it seems a metaphysical pronouncement rather than a statement about anything.
the correlation between the population explosion and the development of nitrogen fixing and fertilizers based on the results is startling to see.
food problems seem to be more distribution than production issues.
the international food production/distribution system that's taken shape since the 1980s under the general rubric of globalization is fraught with contradictions and problems, most of which stem from centralization of production (monocropping--economies of scale--markets being flooded with cheap nothern hemisphere goods--debt used to leverage reductions in state support for local agriculture in the south--collapse of these southern hemisphere sectors--exposure to underlying irrationalities that are of a piece with the neocolonial agri-order--situations that ripple through these irrationalities occur, which result in food shortages, price spikes, etc.)

Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?

it seems a malthusian proposition conditioned in part by a side-stepping of the complexities of production systems their organization and politics...so an abstract position rooted in the needless separation of disciplines.


Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?

i would had i not seen so many college textbooks and found them riddled with stupidities.
how they get into place is an entirely different question..

What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?

well, i've taught alot of university courses on globalization and food, on neoliberalism/globalization in particular...

Do you think there is a food crisis?

multiple problems which change over time.
to wit:

Food Crisis - The World Bank

their "solution"? mostly more neoliberalism, supported by extensive financial supports...but at least with this you get something like an overview of the state of affairs last year.

but of course things change:
Lower prices aggravate food crisis - U.N. official | Reuters

as do the assessments as a function of the institution doing the reporting.

to figure this sort of question out, access to data helps:

World Food Situation: World Food Situation

but parsing it is it's own problem...

Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?

thinking about this. i do, but i don't have time to write them out at the moment. it's probably better for reasons of postlength.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Leto

I had this discussion with my (conspiracy theorist) brother last night. He believes that the World Health organization brought about AIDS (during the polio & small pox innoculations of the Congo in the 1960's) as a tool to establish a new world order. The end game being depopulation to a sustainable level (being approx 300 million human souls).

He said that those in control depend on the scepticism of the intelligent & informed in
order to act in this manner.

Has anybody else heard of this theory?

__________________
You said you didn't give a fuck about hockey
And I never saw someone say that before
You held my hand and we walked home the long way
You were loosening my grip on Bobby Orr

http://dune.wikia.com/wiki/Leto_Atreides_I

Willravel

What do you think of this statement?
It's a brave thing to say, if a bit disconcerting.
Do you agree or disagree?
I have to disagree. Even though I have serious concerns about overpopulation, no ethical solution exists for the problem.
Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?
Yes. The human population of Earth is still growing at a near exponential rate, but we aren't making serious attempts to either make currently unlivable parts of the planet livable or colonizing space. Eventually, we'll reach an impasse. Earth has finite real estate and resources.
Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?
Maybe. It could be applied to a number of different philosophies and political ideologies, but I can't think of anything particularly direct.
Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?
No, college kids should be exposed to as many different viewpoints as possible. One needs to build the intellectual technology of problem-solving and deductive reasoning. This exercise presents a good opportunity for that.
What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?
Do you think there is a food crisis?
The current food crisis has nothing to do with overpopulation, yet. It's an economic issue.
Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?
We need global worker's rights.

snowy

Actually, there is! Education for women. When a country's women are educated, the total fertility rate of that country decreases.

I don't think we have a food crisis yet. As roachboy suggested, some countries (like India) have had population explosions after the introduction of commercial agriculture (the so-called Green Revolution, though I don't really see anything "green" about it), yet in these same countries, famine still occurs. The problem isn't really in food production, but in how this food is distributed. Because of globalization, this food does not always stay in the country where it was produced or go to feed portions of the population that need it; instead it gets sold in the free market to the highest bidder.

We need to reevaluate how food is treated as a commodity, because ultimately, it isn't just a commodity--it's a necessity of life.

__________________
If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

ring

oh man...the monocropping.
I have bad dreams about large tanks of ammonia.

Nitrogen replacement for the soil is most vital.

..as for the rest?

I look forward to post length,
roach.

Willravel

I was under the impression that wasn't consistent from country to country. ake Sierra Leone, for example:
Female education and fertility: some evidence from Sierra Leone.

Zeraph

Am I the only one who agrees?

Eventually we *must* control population growth, unless an X factor occurs to do it for us, it is a mathematical certainty at this point.

I think a fair way to do it would (just off the top of my head) be to release some gas that evenly distributes across the globe that decreases the production of sperm and/or ova so that it doesn't outright sterilize any one group, but makes it harder to impregnate.

I also think there should be a law against having more than 6 children per decade. No one can reasonably, and healthily, take care of 6+ kids at once.

Willravel

Zeraph, we could expand into space. Terraforming Mars, theoretically, could be done as quickly as a few hundred years. We could also expand onto or into the ocean.

Zeraph

True, but we ain't there yet. Nowhere near unfortunately.

genuinegirly

If NASA would get over their overwhelming desire to not biologically contaminate space, this could happen much sooner.

__________________
"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq

"violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy

Willravel

Hehe... yeah they're afraid Earth's infection might spread!

Baraka_Guru

I can't believe we're talking about Mars already.

The U.S. itself probably has enough farmland to feed the entire planet.

The issues with the world food supply aren't a matter of capacity or logistics; it's a matter of politics and economy.

* * * * *

What do you think of this statement?
I think it can easily be misread. But I also think it makes too much of an assumption that this is the easiest or most important "key."

Do you agree or disagree?
I agree somewhat. Though I'm sure I could easily disagree with what is an adequate or acceptable form of "population control."

Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?
Yes. Fewer people means a lowered food requirement.

Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?
No, not really. I can see the idea existing in a number of philosophies/agendas. China was mentioned, but if memory serves correctly, ancient societies managed their populations as well, especially the nomadic ones. The West is also well known for managing its population with immigration policies, easily accessible birth control, and education on matters of sexuality and family.

Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?
I'm fine with it so long as the context is clear and isn't meant to instill a bias based purely one one reason or another. It should offer several angles on the issue.

What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?
Education and awareness mainly. There are children going hungry right here in Toronto. There are millions of children far worse off around the world.

Do you think there is a food crisis?
Yes. But as I mentioned, I believe it's political and economic more than it is an issue of production capacity itself.

Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?
Move cultural dietary patterns toward a more sustainable diet (less animal products, more vegetable alternatives) through education and other programs. Also, we need to realize that food security is a highly political issue. It won't go away by ignoring it. There are several nations who have starvation, and yet they export tonnes of food to the West and elsewhere. WTF is up with that?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

We probably have enough for about 8-10 billion people if we utilize all available land for farming, but we'll surpass that number before too long at the rate we're going. We may double it in our lifetime. I'm not sure, but I suspect that the Earth would have trouble, regardless of economics or politics, taking care of over 20 billion humans. Eventually we'll have to expand or change our breeding habits. I'm hoping for a bit of both.

CandleInTheDark

What do you think of this statement

It is a little basic, and disregards our growing capacity for increased production.

Do you agree or disagree?

Yes, if all factors other factors are constant, population would be the contrainst on our food supply.

Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?

Yes, see above. But fortunately our efficiency of production and total production have increased overtime and will likely continue to increase.

Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?


Malthusian beliefs are certainly associated with particular political and social philosophies that I do not subscribe to.

Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?

It is certainly out of place in an introductory plant biology text which leads me to believe it is a political, not a factual, statement.

What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?

5 years of education in Environmental Studies and Forest Ecology.

Do you think there is a food crisis?

No, at least not one that is pervasive world wide. If there was one it would be temporary: production would increase or demand would decrease.

Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?

If we co-opted all primary production we would be able to support may 18 billion people on the planet, according to some texts. The solution is improved crop species and increasing the socio-economic well being of persons in the third-world which would decrease population pressures.

__________________
Where there is doubt there is freedom.

Baraka_Guru

Fair enough, but when you include the world's farmland and consider a more sustainable food system, we could probably support more than you think, especially when you include the oceans and newer technologies, such as integrated urban farming.

However, there might just come a time when we need to expand beyond the stratosphere, so we had better have a plan.

Personally, I'd rather terraform Venus.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

I suspect all we have to do with Venus is put Al Gore in a rocket and give him a few weeks. It's a shame the Venusians didn't have "An Inconvenient Truth" back when it could have made a difference.

roachboy

wouldn't it be easier for, say, states to encourage small-to-medium scale farming oriented (preferably) around sustainable practices and tied to small-to-medium scale distribution systems--as over against the over-reliance on centralized forms of production and distribution, which amount in the southern hemisphere to a continuation of colonial practices---wouldn't that be simpler than colonizing venus?

just wondering.

__________________
a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle
spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear

it make you sick.

-kamau brathwaite

Baraka_Guru

You mean like this?



or this?

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

Terraforming isn't about ease, it's about necessity. We're nowhere near there yet, but some day we might and when that day comes we'll be out there because we have to be out there. As much as I love the whole "explorer's spirit" theme in science fiction, when it does come to pass it will be something that we've forced ourselves to do.

Either that, or we'll be nuked by cylons. Whichever comes first.

Xerxys

What do you think of this statement?
It's simplistic, yes, but true non the less. I mean, the only way you can actually accomplish anything is by maintaining moderation.

Do you agree or disagree?
I am with Zeraph, I agree.

Do you feel it speaks a partial truth?
I agreed, so I do feel it speeks a truth.

Do you see this statement as embodying any single philosophy or political agenda?
Nope, not really...

Do you feel strongly one way or another about this statement appearing in a college textbook?
Yes. It should have some sort of context backing it or not appear at all. You don't just leave an argument like that hanging in a scientific setting.

What personal life experiences shaped your opinion on the world food crisis?
Growing up in a third world country.

Do you think there is a food crisis?
No. Just idiots and dictators.

Can you suggest other methods that will help meet the growing nutritional needs of our world?
Educate the masses on what they should do to make more food as well as preserve the land.

Frankly, I don't beleive we can expand in space any time soon. We can hardly move from point A-B in enough time with hardly any complications let alone transport and move machinery necessary for colonising an entire planet bigger than earth.

Thing is, human beings have grown to believe they are more important than the environment. Have you seen what bad farming practices have done to what was once arable land in sub-Saharan Africa? We evolved because of the environment. We are here because of the earth, not the other way around.

Dammitall

Discussing topics like the global food supply, the (mis-)distribution of food and population growth can't happen without mentioning the lopsided consumption habits of the developed world. What good is it to send advisers, organizations and funds to help famine-stricken areas when so many here in the US, for example, are gobbling up resources--food, energy, land--either for our own comfort or financial gain so much faster than others elsewhere in the world? As we do move closer to a crisis state with respect to our limited resources at hand--and I believe we will face a crisis of some kind, due to factors both within and beyond our control--the "haves" will probably become less and less willing to part with what they have for the sake of the "have-nots." Beyond improving sustainable food cultivation, production and distribution methods, we have to change our attitudes about what we consume, what we need, and what is available to us, and thetime for that change is now.

__________________
If one million people replaced a two mile car trip once a week with a bike ride, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 50,000 tons per year. If one out of ten car commuters switched to a bike, carbon dioxide emissions would be reduced by 25.4 million tons per year. [2milechallenge.com]