02-20-2009, 10:45 AM | #1 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Taxed by the miles you drive; tracked by GPS
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I also see this as driving up the costs of the "last mile" which refers to all items eventually get to a story via a truck. Things may be shipped by air, sea, rails, but ultimately the last miles are done via a truck. What do you think?
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02-20-2009, 10:52 AM | #2 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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This is by far the fairest way for us to pay for our road systems. Surely as a capitalist you believe that people should pay for the driving they do, rather than a flat rate taxed on everyone?
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02-20-2009, 11:06 AM | #3 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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no, i believe that the general fund pays for some of the infrastructure for those that don't use it with a car. They use it with the "last mile" for goods and services, since everyone uses it in that manner.
Fuel consumption is a great manner for fair taxation for road usage. If the tax isn't adequate to cover the longer range of high mileage vehicles, raise the tax that already exists to double, triple, or whatever seems commensurate to the average increase. Tie it to the US CAFE standards, so that the increase in the CAFE standard will reflect a higher tax revenue as the CAFE standard increases.
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02-20-2009, 11:08 AM | #4 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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and I think there should be a weight scale in every toilet so sewage waste can be taxed by human waste weight.
typical socialist policy....tax people on every action they make.
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02-20-2009, 11:13 AM | #5 (permalink) |
Registered User
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this goes way over the line really. besides the tax issue, the gps monitoring is dangerous. Who knows how wrongly it could be used, but let's be honest, the government would certainly use it for their own means.
I'm sure all the trucking companies are going to love this idea.. |
02-20-2009, 11:14 AM | #6 (permalink) |
follower of the child's crusade?
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The people who use the roads the most damage them the most so should pay the most.
Thats called the market, not socialism. You weigh your "demand" to drive against the cost of "supply" of the service of a road network. Should a single mum driving 2 miles a day to school and back pay the same car tax as a family driving a heavy 4x4 around? Surely that is simply unfair?
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02-20-2009, 11:15 AM | #7 (permalink) | |
©
Location: Colorado
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In any case, I prefer the gas taxes that are already in place. It provides an incentive to drive more fuel efficient vehicles. |
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02-20-2009, 11:17 AM | #8 (permalink) |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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If the existing system is working, why muck it up?
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02-20-2009, 11:22 AM | #9 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
But fuel consumption is more for the heavier 4x4, even with the same 2 miles a day driven. Thus they pay more because it costs more fuel to haul more weight. Take note that is why shipping goods is by weight and girth. because they aren't collecting as much as they should since fuel efficiency has increase, not to mention groups pillaging the highway funds like they do social security...which is why I suggest increase the tax on the fuel.
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02-20-2009, 11:30 AM | #10 (permalink) |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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Ah, thanks for the clarification.
I thought the general trend was to drive fewer miles when fuel prices are up. I didn't think that taxes played much of a role in fuel consumption. Based on this, I figured there wouldn't be an increase in funding if you charge people for the number of miles they drive.
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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy |
02-20-2009, 12:08 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Tone.
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But under the current system, those of us who drive 20-40mpg cars rather than jackholes with 8mpg Hummers end up getting a tax break. Tax us per mile by mileage trackers, and I have to pay the exact same rate as the environmentally-damaging resource-wasting morons. After all the government programs giving tax breaks to hybrid drivers and other energy conservationists, it's pretty foolish to kill off the farthest-reaching one. |
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02-20-2009, 06:58 PM | #12 (permalink) |
immoral minority
Location: Back in Ohio
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I would be fine with it for the big semi trucks who already get tracked. They do a lot of the wear on the roads as it is. You might see road trains and regular trains play a bigger role if that is the case.
But, my tax dollars have gone to making the roads, they shouldn't be able to charge me for driving on them. And would they charge me for going over the speed limit? Anyways, this story is a non-story because the White House shot it down. But if I drive an electric car, I won't be paying any gas tax. |
02-21-2009, 12:33 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Orlando, Florida
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I would oppose this as far as ordinary cars/trucks are concerned. I think that the current system is more fair. Those who consume more fuel should pay more. As another poster mentioned it's not fair to the Prius driver to make him pay the same rate per mile as the Hummer driver.
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02-21-2009, 12:39 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
Devoted
Donor
Location: New England
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Well, it isn't going to happen in the near term US-wide...
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02-21-2009, 02:38 PM | #15 (permalink) |
Delicious
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It'd definitely suck for more rural areas like mine where I have to drive 25 miles both ways just to go to Wal-Mart. Not only do rural folks live farther from towns, They're statistically poorer than someone who does live closer to their jobs/stores/schools.
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02-21-2009, 04:23 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: France
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What's next, personal GPS to be carried on us for the amount of walking we do so know what the sidewalk tax is?
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02-21-2009, 04:28 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Eccentric insomniac
Location: North Carolina
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I would support a use-based tax for driving. I absolutely am against GPS tracking.
If you want to tax my driving based on the number of miles driven, then just require an odometer statement at the beginning of each year, no GPS nonsense necessary.
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02-21-2009, 08:09 PM | #18 (permalink) |
Junkie
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I don't understand how this would be any better than the gas tax in place. As others have said, the current gas tax already has people who use more resources paying more in taxes. Plus the gas tax is universally collected. It seems like around here I see a lot of cars that are unregistered, or have expired tags or out of state tags, or even quite a few vehicles with Mexico license plates. I'm guessing quite a few of those people that are paying gas taxes now every time they fill up will be able to avoid the mile based taxes. Also how would it work if I go on a road trip out of state? Do I get a separate bill from each state I drove through at the end of the year? And how much will this cost to implement, providing tracking devices for every vehicle in the country? Look how expensive the digital television transition has been, I would think this would be many times greater. All in all just a giant bureaucracy created to eliminate a perfectly good, fair system with a much more expensive, cumbersome system that ultimately doesn't accomplish anything new.
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02-21-2009, 10:11 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Crazy
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Who'd install, monitor, and police it? The infrastructure to establish this system seems immense and I think that cost would far outweigh the income generated. What's to stop someone from unplugging it every other week or permanently except for inspection time?
Where I live the state and city and county already has a hard enough time enforcing registration, yearly safety checks, and insurance. If we eventually get emissions and then gps mileage it'd be one giant crap heap that'd take decades to sort out. If they need more money for infrastructure I think that they should raise the gas tax, vehicle weight taxes, and registration fees. If you use more gas, drive heavier cars, drive more expensive cars you should pay more. If you've changed your driving habits to save gas and/or use less resources you shouldn't pay the same as a single occupant escalade going the same distance. They made the choice to drive bigger they should pay more. A question for those that live outside the US what is the road infrastructure like vs the tax rates? I've visited Germany, Japan, and New Zealand and their roads all seemed well maintained even in the rural areas that I visited. Also saw the National Geographic program on the Autobahn and they replace sections when repairs are needed. I have not ever seen that happen in any state I've been to so far. I've only seen them patch pot holes in the asphalt or concrete many times until it gets really bad then maybe they will replace or repave a large section. Also many times when they repave with asphalt it's never level for long. Always ends up wavy and uneven in less then a year. |
02-21-2009, 10:25 PM | #21 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: whOregon
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They proposed a similar system in Oregon earlier this year. In that pilot system the GPS trackers connected to the fuel pumps. It read the GPS odometer and then assessed the mileage tax as part of the fill up.
The general idea was that it would be an opt in system, where if you were equipped with the GPS you would pay one rate based on mileage, and if you choose not to have the GPS you would get the standard per gallon rate (which would usually be higher). I believe the Oregon program got shot down too, but i thought the logistics of that system sounded pretty decent. Last edited by Anexkahn; 02-21-2009 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: spelling > me |
02-21-2009, 10:39 PM | #22 (permalink) |
Crazy
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That kind of sounds reasonable but if you daily drive something with a mechanical fuel pump you'd be unable to opt in? Where I am there are still a large number of VWs, domestic work trucks, and even imports all daily driven that would probably not be able to opt in.
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02-22-2009, 07:19 AM | #23 (permalink) |
Beware the Mad Irish
Location: Wish I was on the N17...
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The argument in favor of this is that the existing system is no longer working because people a buying and driving more fuel efficient cars which lowers the overall tax roll created by the gas tax. Changing the model to include taxes by miles driven would raise the revenue lost by this transition to green automobiles.
That said I'm opposed to this form of taxation. On one hand the goverment wants you to drive a more fuel efficient car and then on the other hand they want to tax for you driving it across the city... the government will take to support it's need to spend so make no mistake about it. This idea will not replace an existing form of revenue. It will come online in ADDITION to the existing form of revenue. I'm opposed to any government mandated GPS device that tracks where I go, when I go there, how far I go to get there, and how long I stay. It gives the government too much of an opportunity for shenanigans and like it or not it won't stop with miles driven. Do I have a better idea? You bet... The goverment must SPEND LESS... end of story.
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02-22-2009, 07:42 AM | #24 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Greater Boston area
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The only thing I see this proposed tax actually doing is creating another bloated, mismanaged government bureaucracy where the majority of the revenue goes towards salaries and buildings/maintenance. Not to mention in 5-7 years having to spend billions to upgrade the technology.
That is, of course, assuming that hackers won't have completely defeated the system in about a week or two. |
02-24-2009, 11:17 PM | #25 (permalink) |
Insane
Location: Ottawa
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Ever get that sense that big brother is watching you?
This is a very serious issue and should be stricken down at every opportunity. No good could possibly come of this. If you want to generate revenue on how many miles people drive - tax your damn gas more! But tracking people ... wow ... anybody else thinking Cuba looks like playschool now?
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02-26-2009, 07:11 PM | #26 (permalink) |
Tilted
Location: Kolob
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absolute no if they put the gps in on how many miles driven then they'll move into how fast you were driving then how many people are in your car in the carpool lane then...not sure if this should go in paranoia or not
still say no on miles driven, increase the gas tax and then you get more fuel efficient cars and carpooling, I don't see many people hoping on bikes to escape the miles driven, considering how the trucking industry employs almost 9 million people if we had miles driven I think a lot more would be out of work then if the gas tax was increased though the tax on diesel is quite steep |
02-26-2009, 08:26 PM | #27 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: San Antonio, TX
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I think this is a terrible idea, for the privacy reasons, because of the cost of implementation, the temptation to game the system, and because gas taxes are (imnsho) a good enough proxy for usage. Gas taxes also encourage fuel efficiency by raising the cost of gas. Sure, when everyone is driving electric vehicles, the tax structure will have to change.
Is there some divine requirement that taxes be based upon usage? People without children don't pay lower taxes than those who do have children, even though the latter (probably) makes use of the public education system. Same deal for any number of public services. In fact, the biggest argument to me for the gas tax is more to encourage fuel efficiency than anything else - burning gasoline has an environmental impact that effects everyone. Taxation helps to increase the cost of burning gas, and thus discourage use. |
02-26-2009, 10:10 PM | #28 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I just love this country more and more... tax miles now... lol so let's see, there goes vacations and road trips.
It almost makes as much sense as taxing cigarettes into the black market. Let's see, if we tax miles and no one drives and we tax tobacco and noone uses it.... what do they tax to pay for that lost revenue??????
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02-27-2009, 04:46 AM | #30 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Virginia
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i'm not sure if i missed it or now, but it raises the question of truckers. the ones that get paid by the miles they travel. wouldn't this cancel out the time they've spent on the road, away from their families from days up to weeks at a time?
as a previous poster stated about driving 25 miles each way to go to walmart's, i have to drive a good distance to reach walmart's to at least save some money on shopping. our local area stores have alot of things that are much cheaper at walmart's. i don't drive much. i hate it. i only go out when necessary for what we need and doctor visits. the only other thing is the SO driving to work. things are getting more ridiculous it seems as time goes on. our goverment officals in the high up end, senate etc, they get paid a hefty amount each year. why not cut back some of their paycheck? maybe that's just me on that thought though.
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drive, gps, miles, taxed, tracked |
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