Do you feel you belong where you live? - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Cynthetiq · 08-27-2008, 01:02 PM

Quote:

View: Newcomers Adjust, Eventually, to New York
Source: NYTimes
posted with the TFP thread generator

Newcomers Adjust, Eventually, to New York
August 27, 2008
Newcomers Adjust, Eventually, to New York
By CARA BUCKLEY

Sometime over the course of a person’s first year in New York, there usually comes that moment. It can happen in the first days or weeks, or after 10 months. It can happen repeatedly, or without people noticing, at least not at first.

Newcomers suddenly realize either that the city is not working for them or that they are inexorably becoming part of it, or both. They find themselves walking and talking faster.

The subway begins to make sense. Patience is whittled away; sarcasm often ensues. New friends are made, routines established, and city life begins to feel like second nature. In other words, newcomers find themselves becoming New Yorkers.

“It can be lonely, very lonely, and I knew I would find it hard,” said Lisa Phin, 25, who moved to New York from Dallas in late May, and is building a network of friends through events listed on Web sites like Meetup.com. “But if you can stick it out for one year, you’re home free.”

Rebecca Thompson’s moment happened shortly after she moved to the city in January. On a visit home to Oklahoma, Ms. Thompson, 24, found herself flummoxed when a hostess at a party and everyone else there were inexplicably acting so nice.

Gabrielle Sirkin’s moment came on the heels of Thanksgiving Day last year, five months after she moved to New York. Every day until then, she felt as if she was doing battle daily with the city. But suddenly, on a night flight to Kennedy International Airport from California, Ms. Sirkin, 26, caught sight of the glittering skyline, and, to her great surprise, felt a surge of joy.

“I was really caught off guard by my reaction,” she said. “But I could see Central Park, and the lights on the Chrysler Building, and I wasn’t looking at it as a tourist. I was looking at it as though I was home.”

Ian Ingersoll’s moment happened within weeks of his move from Seattle to New York last fall. He suddenly found himself exasperated by slow moving pedestrians, and, like a true New Yorker, began darting around them instead.

“That was when I realized I was getting in sync with the city,” Mr. Ingersoll, 25, said.

For newcomers, there is often great comfort in these flashes of recognition, which can serve as signposts along the often arduous path to integration with New York.

For Mr. Ingersoll, the sense of getting aligned with New York felt like balm, because the city, for all of its exquisite appeal, ended up nearly breaking his spirit.

Mr. Ingersoll painstakingly saved $8,000 over a year and a half in Seattle, working three jobs to prepare for life in the city of his dreams. He burned through it in no time when he could not find full-time work. While he had admired New Yorkers’ famed acerbic attitude from afar, he found the brusqueness wounding once here. Making friends also proved hard; Mr. Ingersoll spent last Christmas wandering alone through Central Park.

But slowly, more than halfway through that crucial first year, life is brightening for Mr. Ingersoll, who is an actor. A close friend moved here, too, and now shares Mr. Ingersoll’s basement apartment in Union City, N.J. Mr. Ingersoll found a full-time job and has an audition or two lined up.

“I knew it wasn’t going to be easy — it was something I had to do,” said Mr. Ingersoll, who grew up in Alaska. “I am in love with the city. And what relationship is good if you don’t work for it?”

Young people have flocked to New York City by the tens of thousands for generations, to chase their dreams and test their mettle. And they continue to come in strong numbers. In 2006, nearly 77,000 people in their 20s had been in the city for a year or less, according to the annual study by the United States Census Bureau for that year.

But for many, the thrill of arrival is often tempered by the sinking realization of what an alienating place the city can be, especially for those who are not wealthy or who do not have a pre-existing network of friends. Nothing comes easily, even if one can get past the dauntingly high cost of living. The subway maze seems indecipherable. People are everywhere, but ignore each other on the street. Friends might live in distant neighborhoods, and seeing them often requires booking time, like an appointment, weeks in advance.

“Any time I want to see someone and catch up with someone, everyone takes out their BlackBerrys and says, ‘This weekend isn’t good; how about three weeks from now?’ “ said Ms. Sirkin, who moved to New York from Milan in June 2007. “How can you form really good and solid relationships with people if you see them once a month?”

Not every newcomer has trouble adjusting. Alexis Vuatrin, 27, from France, said that New York fit him from the start. The skyline, the bustle and the taxis seemed familiar, thanks to movies and TV shows, and he quickly fell into a sprawling group of French friends. Then again, Mr. Vuatrin had already lived in Geneva, Paris and Hildesheim, near Hanover, in Germany.

And by comparison, he said, “The people in the street here are so nice, and smiling.”

But nice is a relative thing. Boris Chen, 22, moved to New York from California early in July for a job with a finance company in Midtown. He is still trying to stomach what feels to him like a whole new brand of rude.

Mr. Chen also had to get over his lingering childhood fear of taxi drivers, which he believed came from movies. “I always thought any time I got into taxis they were going to kidnap me, and I was going to die,” he said.

That fear is behind him, largely because Mr. Chen refuses to indulge in it, and he is tackling city life systematically. He is cultivating friendships with people he met while apartment hunting on Craigslist. Through them, he has learned valuable insider city tips, like what kind of subway pass to buy (30-day unlimited), and whether he should tip deliverymen (yes) or doormen (it depends).

“Learning the transportation is sort of what I’m working on right now,” said Mr. Chen, who lives with two roommates on the Upper East Side. “I’m pretty good with the subways now, but at night it’s a little weird, and I don’t really know how that works.”

Ms. Phin already finds herself getting annoyed more easily, even though she arrived from Texas only two months ago. The culture at her job, as a marketer for an engineering company, was a lot more abrasive than she had expected. “Nothing is sugarcoated,” she said. And so, she is finding herself growing a tougher skin. “I thought I’d bring my niceness with me,” she said, “but already I feel an edge developing. Because you need to, to deal.”

Ms. Thompson, a native of Oklahoma who moved from Chicago six months ago, has adjusted to New York life relatively easily, she said, largely because she interned here a few summers ago. She also has friends from college in the city, and has made new ones through her church, St. Paul the Apostle.

But the city has changed Ms. Thompson, who lives in Hell’s Kitchen near the tourist-clogged streets of Times Square. “I’ve definitely become the pushy New Yorker who has to get around everyone on the sidewalk,” she said.

During a recent week back home in Oklahoma, Ms. Thompson said she found herself holding doors for others, but she was transformed again immediately upon her return. “I had a horrible flight,” she said, “and I snapped back.”

There also usually comes a time, early on, when newcomers must accept that the city is a power greater than they are.

“My friend said, ‘The city abuses you, and you just have to abuse it back,’ ” said Ms. Sirkin, who grew up in California and moved to New York reluctantly, after having visa problems in Italy last year. “The subway doesn’t work in the morning, and you’re a half-hour late for work, and that’s not in your control. You have to find ways of surviving.”

Ms. Sirkin’s friend Sarah Kasbeer also recalled being consumed by a common strain of existential New York City angst: the sense that no matter where one is, something better is happening — the real New York is in full swing — somewhere else.

“When I first got here, I’d go out in the city with people I worked with, and I felt I was missing something,” said Ms. Kasbeer, who moved to New York from Milan in 2006. I was going to clubs in Chelsea, the Lower East Side, things I wouldn’t do now.”

But sometime during her first year, she stopped trying so hard. “I just realized that I didn’t need to find ‘it,’ that my place in the city would fall into place,” she said. “Now I don’t make an effort; I roll with things. It’s not just the city, it’s yourself that you have to deal with as well.”

Ms. Sirkin continued to resist feeling part of New York long after her revelatory experience last Thanksgiving. And, yet she has begun to come around, taking acting and photography classes, and forging new friendships. It took a year, she said, but now, at last, she is starting to feel connected with what she describes as “this terrifying city.”

“Every day you encounter situations where you have to step out of your safety zone, and it’s really kind of a self-discovery experience,” she said. “I see myself fighting it, but I also I see myself, every day, becoming a New Yorker.”

When I first moved to the NYC area in 1991, I bought a round trip ticket with the departure date 1 year from when I arrived. I figured if I hadn't conquered living in NYC by that time, I'd have a ride back to LA.

When that year came, I wasn't any closer to being comfortable with NYC. I still had no friends, I did nothing but work 40-50 hour work weeks in the garment industry for very little pay. I was miserable. I listened to two songs all the time, Cat Stevens "Wild World" and Jim Croce's "New York's Not My Home"

By November 1992, I was no closer to having met any friends. For the second year, I decided that I was going to make a better effort to do more going out, trying to meet people. There was no internet, there was just well, actually going places and having to meet people. I worked more, got more responsiblity and worked 60-80 hour workweeks. I was frustrated. I even remember one night when there was a large deadline, I had my first date with someone that I had met somewhere and I just couldn't leave the office. I was working in tears. I was miserable and hating living in the NYC area.

One night over the Thanksgiving weekend, I got invited to hang out in a bar in the Village. I met a nice girl server who thought I should sit at her bar on Sunday nights. It was a start at meeting people and making friends.

But one day in 1993, on a trip back from visiting friends and family in LA, I was looking forward to getting back to NYC. It was that moment that I realized that there was a fundamental shift.

Now, when we travel, when I can see the skyline, bridges, or even our apartment building, sometimes I can feel tears almost well up from within me. I feel like I'm finally home.

Do you remember when you finally felt like you fit or integrated where you live?

Willravel · 08-27-2008, 01:09 PM

I've been here since I was in high school, but being in high school accelerates integration, I think. If I ever move, I'll head back to this thread, though!

snowy · 08-27-2008, 01:36 PM

In my town, there are two very different communities to be a part of. There is Corvallis proper and then there is Oregon State University. I first felt really part of OSU when I was a sophomore at Mom's Weekend; everywhere my mom and I went on campus, I ran into someone I knew. As for Corvallis, I feel most connected to my community at community events where I run into people, like Saturday Market, or when I'm bicycling around town and people I work for or friends wave at me as I ride by. I'd say I first felt really integrated into the community last summer, and this summer has been much happier because of that integration. I've got my little niche here, so to speak. And I must say I like the Corvallis community better than the university community--it's much more liberal

Halx · 08-27-2008, 01:46 PM

It took me a while to feel like a New Yorker. I adapted to the transportation and the hoards of people and the social nature, but all of that was like playing a game to me. I never felt like a New Yorker until I'd been here a few years, when I finally moved INTO Manhattan and could then afford (time-wise) to stroll around and really get to know the 'hood. You still can't get me to cheer for the sports teams though.

mixedmedia · 08-27-2008, 01:56 PM

I've never integrated with this town. I certainly didn't integrate in Sulphur, Louisiana - willfully so.

In fact, I haven't integrated with a place since I was a child.

The places I lived in as a child, Atlanta then New Smyrna Beach, I still feel integrated with them when I go back.

MSD · 08-27-2008, 02:07 PM

My home town is a rich WASP paradise, which means I pretty much hate it. It's boring, there's little to do despite the two universities, and it's just not my thing. 20 miles away where I went to school and now work, I'm pretty integrated. Because of my job at the school (which also functions as a conference center,) I know people from a lot of local businesses, the Chamber of Commerce, a lot of nonprofits, and of course all the students. People know me by name at the local bars and I know my way around downtown and the suburban area uptown. I might move down there in a year or two if I can afford it.

Charlatan · 08-27-2008, 04:44 PM

I moved here in August of 2006 and I would say it took no more than a month or so for me to feel very comfortable here. That said, the first year was a bit lonely as my family was still in Toronto but what that year did was give me time to adjust to my new job and to explore my new city. As a result, many of my friends who've lived here all their lives say that I know the transit system and the city's layout better than they do (most ask me for direction if they need to get somewhere they've never been).

I still don't feel entirely up to speed on the local politics and I am certainly still on a learning curve when it comes to many cultural practises. The cool thing is that there is, despite the locals insistence that their country is boring, so much to learn and do.

ktspktsp · 08-28-2008, 08:59 AM

I've been in Reykjavík since March 07, and I still don't feel very integrated. I don't think I will ever feel that way, unless I spent at least 5 more years here. This has a lot to do with the people and the language and the culture.

However, my attachment to the city has been growing this summer, since I've been walking to work and back everyday instead of taking the bus. The walk is a bit over 2 miles each way, and there is more than one path that I use. Therefore I feel much more familiar with the town and its streets and its houses. Knowing where the pretty houses are, where I can see more cats on my walk

, where the moss on the houses is greener, where the traffic is lighter, where the alleyways take me between houses, where the espresso is better and where lunch is cheaper... It all adds up to "knowing" more of the city, and thus belonging in it more.

I guess I belong to an area when I know it by foot. I did not feel like I belonged in South-East PA since I had to drive most everywhere (although I would still walk sometimes from my house to the downtown in the small town I lived in, West Chester). By contrast I felt much more integrated in State College, PA (my college town) since I walked and biked everywhere there. And even in my hometown of Beirut, I feel much closer to the Western part than the Eastern part (though the latter can be prettier) because I never went there much until I was a teenager, since the town was split during my childhood. I guess I would have a hard time in suburbia.

Poppinjay · 08-28-2008, 09:15 AM

I think eastern North Carolina will always be the place I belong. From day one to the day I left, it just felt right.

With DC, it's not so much a matter of feeling like I belong. It's such a temporary place, almost nobody is a native and about half the population turns over every four to eight years. I think I realized I was de-sensitized to the area when I started noticing tourists. They didn't really stand out the first couple of years.

Glory's Sun · 08-28-2008, 09:21 AM

Eastern NC is a place I don't belong. Ignoring all the bullshit conservatism and racial structures.. there is just nothing here. The beaches are nice but I just can't get over the mentality that so many seem to have here. While it seems to have potential for business opportunity and the quality of life (i.e. cost of living) isn't bad at all, It's just not a place I enjoy.

Poppinjay · 08-28-2008, 09:26 AM

I ran with a pretty liberal crowd there. Mostly college staffers and professors. Plus, it really matters *where* you live. Beaufort, downtown New Bern, Promise Land in Morehead City, nice.

Vanceboro, Kinston, Havelock, Jacksonville, not so much.

abaya · 08-28-2008, 09:26 AM

Cyn, I read that article yesterday, and I don't think I could ever live in NYC and be happy. Then again, if I had some kick-ass job at the UN or something (haha), I might not have a choice. I would have to have a cabin in the woods or something, to escape to and find my mind again, after losing it in that city...

Quote:

Originally Posted by ktspktsp

I've been in Reykjavík since March 07, and I still don't feel very integrated. I don't think I will ever feel that way, unless I spent at least 5 more years here. This has a lot to do with the people and the language and the culture.

Well, no surprise to everyone here, since ktsp and I are married and going through this together... but yeah, I feel very much the same way. And I even have an Icelandic passport, and speak Icelandic fairly well, and have more family members here than in any other place on Earth. But I will never belong here.

It feels less and less like home, the longer we spend here... even though I am more and more familiar with all things Icelandic, and participate more in the culture now. It is not a welcoming place by any means--they make no effort to integrate foreigners, and I dislike that about a country, especially when foreigners try so very hard to fit in. I'm no longer interested in making such an effort to find my place here. They win--but it's their loss. They just won't realize it for another 20-30 years, when they have whole communities of un-integrated foreigners who become resentful and isolated over time. So much for learning what NOT to do, from their European neighbors.

Other than Seattle (which is still a kind of home for me, though I'll have to get used to it again since it's changed a lot in the last 5 years), I felt very comfortable in our grad school town, which ktsp mentioned above. It was a fantastically neutral place for all of us in graduate school--landlocked 3 hours away from any major city, it was a little small-town haven to just build great friendships and explore our surroundings. I felt very awkward there the first few months, but I settled in very quickly. I think that has more to do with being a student than anything, though, because as a student you have a ready-made community, and activities on-campus are simple endless. The entire atmosphere is one big "Welcome" tent. Hard to compare that to a "real life" scenario...

Fotzlid · 08-28-2008, 09:42 AM

In a couple of weeks, we will have been living in this house for 3 years. All my stuff is here. It looks like my place. The second I step outside and look around, I feel like this is all temporary and will go away soon. I have no sense of community here. I only know the names of 2 of the neighbors. We were here for a couple of months before the first one came over and introduced themselve. Haven't spoken with him since.
We both work screwy hours and we don't have any children which I know is the majority of the reason we don't know the neighbors.
It just doesn't feel like home here.

snowy · 08-28-2008, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

Other than Seattle (which is still a kind of home for me, though I'll have to get used to it again since it's changed a lot in the last 5 years), I felt very comfortable in our grad school town, which ktsp mentioned above. It was a fantastically neutral place for all of us in graduate school--landlocked 3 hours away from any major city, it was a little small-town haven to just build great friendships and explore our surroundings. I felt very awkward there the first few months, but I settled in very quickly. I think that has more to do with being a student than anything, though, because as a student you have a ready-made community, and activities on-campus are simple endless. The entire atmosphere is one big "Welcome" tent. Hard to compare that to a "real life" scenario...

What's really interesting, abaya/ktsp, is that in my community, there are at least a few people I know of that deliberately chose to relocate here because of its resemblance to State College, including a couple of my clients.

I think one of the biggest things that made a difference to me in getting to know my town was the frequency of community events. We have two major festivals a year, Saturday Market every weekend, and all sorts of things--concerts, plays, the symphony, town hall meetings, etc.--that give people the opportunity to get out and get to know other people. Plus, we have a really good Parks and Rec department with tons of sports and activities for adults to participate in. Additionally, it being a college town, people are very welcoming of new folks, simply because at one time, almost all of us were new here. All of these things made it easy to integrate, even as an adult.

World's King · 08-28-2008, 10:31 AM

Denver is my city.

Dammitall · 08-28-2008, 12:22 PM

I grew up in a tiny WASP-y suburb of New York City that I never felt comfortable in until I was ready to leave there for college. Going away to school in the city—down the road only twenty minutes or so—probably shouldn't have qualified me as a real "New Yorker," but I embraced that identity as my own while I was there. To this day I miss New York; as far as I can tell I could see myself making a home there as an adult, despite having only really lived there inside the bubble of my college experience.

I feel reasonably comfortable in the town my partner and I have been living in for the past seven years. It's hard to believe we've been here so long, and at times harder to believe that we've ended up here at all. I am happy we purchased a house here and I look forward to spending the next several years making our house into the beautiful home we know it can become. I'd be even happier finding work closer to home to trim down my commute and make me feel more connected to it during the workweek.

Though I miss New York, I don't envision us moving there anytime soon for any reason other than some sort of absolutely fantastic, can't-refuse job opportunity. I guess I've found my home, for now.

Xazy · 08-28-2008, 12:42 PM

It is different in a Jewish orthodox community and easy to always belong there. When I moved to NYC, was easy to mesh in to that community and automatically be welcomed. But I have to say I felt home dec 8, 2003, the night after we got married and we went home Doc & I, then I was no longer a bachelor going away for weekends and looking to leave, I now had a home a place I just wanted to be.

abaya · 08-28-2008, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xazy

But I have to say I felt home dec 8, 2003, the night after we got married and we went home Doc & I, then I was no longer a bachelor going away for weekends and looking to leave, I now had a home a place I just wanted to be.

That's nice.

Btw, with the Jewish community thing... have there ever been times when you just felt stifled? Like, that you DIDN'T want a community supporting/watching you all the time, that you would have just liked to start over/be free, etc? Or have you always just wanted to be there, and never felt resentment/restlessness?

I'm curious because when I was an evangelical, I really loved being part of a Christian university community for 4 years... but I discovered that when I moved away, it was one of the most freeing/important decisions of my life. The support was gone, but so was the expectation for conformity... I was able to really get to know myself better, apart from that community-identity. I don't know if I would have experienced that, if I had moved into another evangelical community right afterwards (as many Christians do--seeking a new "church home" whenever they relocate).

But I also understand that many people prefer to always be part of a community, wherever they go (hence my membership on TFP!).

Ananas · 08-28-2008, 03:07 PM

I moved from CA to DC for college, and spent my those years on campus or around student hangouts. DC was considered dangerous then, so we played it safe. When I decided to stay in the area after graduation, I realized that I would have to broaden my horizons, so to speak, and that's when I started learning the city.

Some things that made me feel I belonged were unconsciously saying y'all, driving the whole Capital Beltway, no longer noticing tourists, having a conversation that did not involve politics or the latest news on Capitol Hill, eating food from different cultures in restaurants and little cafes, stopping and talking to people sitting on their porches, and walking through Rock Creek Park.

I think the defining moment for my family was when I said "I have to get back home" while on a holiday visit to California.

Grasshopper Green · 08-28-2008, 04:22 PM

I've never felt at home in Utah, ever. Not even when I moved away from my hellish hometown and into Salt Lake City. Eastern NC is the only place I felt "at home" and truly comfortable with where I was.

I hope to hell we'll be out of here in 6 months.

highthief · 08-28-2008, 04:35 PM

I grew up in two places: Montreal and a place called the Wirral, which is across the river from Liverpool. When I moved to Toronto as a young man, it really took a very long time to really be happy in this area. I still don't like Toronto especially, but we're pretty happy in a town a little north of the city and feel a part of things. Some of that may have to do with the greater sense of permanence that comes with time and life experiences: we own a home, we have a child, we have careers, etc.

Xazy · 08-28-2008, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaya

That's nice.

Btw, with the Jewish community thing... have there ever been times when you just felt stifled? Like, that you DIDN'T want a community supporting/watching you all the time, that you would have just liked to start over/be free, etc? Or have you always just wanted to be there, and never felt resentment/restlessness?

I'm curious because when I was an evangelical, I really loved being part of a Christian university community for 4 years... but I discovered that when I moved away, it was one of the most freeing/important decisions of my life. The support was gone, but so was the expectation for conformity... I was able to really get to know myself better, apart from that community-identity. I don't know if I would have experienced that, if I had moved into another evangelical community right afterwards (as many Christians do--seeking a new "church home" whenever they relocate).

But I also understand that many people prefer to always be part of a community, wherever they go (hence my membership on TFP!).

The Jewish orthodox community is very tight nitch and it definitely can be stifling. I was involved in a number of youth groups a few years back, and I really learned how easy it is to find out about any Jewish orthodox (and non-orthodox) people that live anywhere, by placing a few phone calls. I thankfully never dance to the normal toon, and am less mainstream, yet I love my community alot and over the past few years gotten involved and been trying to help out as much as I can in my own way.

SSJTWIZTA · 08-28-2008, 07:48 PM

i dont feel at home at all here in Georgia.

I cant wait for the day when i head back to central florida or Austin, Tx.

i will be so ecstatic.

inBOIL · 08-28-2008, 08:18 PM

I've never felt a sense of belonging anywhere, and I don't think I ever will. I do get used to places, but never a connection that would make it difficult to leave.

BadNick · 08-29-2008, 10:01 AM

I grew up in Philadelphia and was always exploring around, so I'm sure I know this area very well. While I've been in several other cities that also seem very appealing, I am a big fan of Philly. Until I was 29yo I lived in the city and liked it. When it was time for me to find a house, I wanted to stay near the city and I had certain neighborhoods that I targeted and searched; and then I found the house that I'm still living in now...that was in 1978. What appealed to me about this area back then and still today is that this neighborhood is less than 15 minutes from center city but it feels like a laid back, very safe, quiet little borough...but not dead at all; fun stuff's always happening, people are around...the place is alive. When I was the "young guy" in the neighborhood 30 years ago I right away hit it off very well with my neighbors, and even though many of those neighbors have changed...and I'm now one of the older neighbors here...I still feel like the people in this area are mostly friendly, civil, and caring about the quality of life here.

edit: on top of that, we have one of the best school systems anywhere PLUS relatively low real estate taxes (since the township hauls in big bucks from many megabuck properties and commercial taxes)

Cernunnos · 08-29-2008, 11:22 AM

I've lived in Orlando for roughly 16 years now, from the age of 4. I've never been able to cultivate a sense of community, and unlike New York, I don't believe this city has the same osmotic pull to draw folks in. Then again, throughout my days here, I haven't made much of an effort to integrate myself; by and large, I don't care for the city itself or the surrounding area, which feels unwelcoming, rushed, and ugly.

There are thankfully havens within and around Orlando that offer breathing room. Leu Gardens is an oasis for those who need to escape daily life, wandering through a maze of plant life and trails. Wekiwa Springs and the Ocala National Forest are both able to offer a temporary return to nature, along with a more local area behind Moss Park, Split Oak Forest.

Those are beautful, quiet places. I need that in my life and don't know how completely I could ever adapt to a cityscape, particularly one so large as Orlando. I feel somehow disconnected and can't be satisfied here. I'll be moving away when it is financially reasonable to do so and I've explored enough to find somewhere that I could see myself thinking of as home.

percy · 08-29-2008, 03:10 PM

I'm back living in my home town and it feels like home. Some places I have lived, like Toronto, felt like I was existing there but didn't quite know why. I met several friends who remain friends to this day, but I could never get over that, "I am a visitor" feeling.

I also think we have more than one home. Parts of Maine and New Hampshire make me feel like never wanting to leave and I get sad after staying there knowing I have to leave.

But New York!!! In a past life if such a thing exists, I must have lived a lifetime there. Absolutely love it. When I fly into New York on business(especially LaGuardia since it always takes so long to land.The only circling pattern I enjoy) I see the skyline and feel like I am home, even though I am going to a hotel room.

Funny, lived in a condo in Toronto,..it felt like a hotel room. Spend time in any New York hotel room and I feel like I belong there, at home.

mardigras · 08-29-2008, 05:17 PM

I moved to eastern tennessee from seattle last year and I've never felt more at home....people as a rule in big cities are cold and jaded, the people here are friendly , outgoing and couldn't be nicer...I really feel comfortable here......could be because I grew up in a small town in northern idaho and this reminds me of the way it was when I as a child..........

jewels · 08-30-2008, 03:58 AM

I haven't felt I belonged anywhere I've lived as an adult, probably because I'm in Florida and not much of a fan of the State.

Driving back to my hometown of 18 years in New Jersey was great, but no tears welled up.

Interestingly, I do feel that type of connection with both Charlotte (NC) and Seattle.

ASU2003 · 08-30-2008, 01:05 PM

I'm not sure I know how to belong anywhere. I had friends in Tempe/Scottsdale, but I had no money and no time to do anything. I have money here, and have started doing some stuff around town, but I don't have a group of friends to do stuff with.

lotsofmagnets · 08-31-2008, 08:24 AM

read this thread a while ago and meant to respond but being the procrastinator that i am...

well, to a large degree i have to echo ktspktsp & abaya. integrating here is nigh on impossible. BUT whether or not that is a problem really depends on people. i now have some people here who i can consider good, even close, friends and i have no problems hanging around them but in the more general community, yes, it´s very easy to feel like i´ve just stepped off the plane for the 1st time even having been here over a year. language is definitely a problem. icelandic is an extraordinarily difficult language and chances to practice it are near zero since almost everyone here speaks english so well. more often than not i´ll walk into a shop and communicate in icelandic but as soon as they hear an accent they´ll communicate in english, even if i persist in speaking icelandic. i´ve pretty much ground to a halt with learning the language because of these factors and i really don´t see myself putting much effort from here in especially now that i´m starting to take the idea of leaving much more seriously now. i´ll have to revive this thread in a year or 2 when i´ve made my next home and it´s looking like the netherlands at this stage.

speshul-k · 08-31-2008, 09:03 AM

Been here all my life and it will always feel like home to me.
Would not trade it for anywhere in the world.

ktspktsp · 09-01-2008, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lotsofmagnets

more often than not i´ll walk into a shop and communicate in icelandic but as soon as they hear an accent they´ll communicate in english, even if i persist in speaking icelandic.

In line at the Bæjarins Beztu hot dog stand this weekend:

Me: Hey, by the way, how do you say "fresh onions" in Icelandic (I knew the words for fresh and for onions but didn't know what specific word combo to use)
IcelandicDudeInFrontOfMe: Just like that, "fresh onions".
Me: Yes, but in Icelandic?
Dude: They speak English at the stand.
Me: I know, but I would like to know for myself how to say it in Icelandic.
Dude: English is fine.
And that was the conversation.

Thankfully the guy at the stand was more helpful and mentioned that it's "hráir laukar" so 'raw' instead of 'fresh'.

lotsofmagnets · 09-01-2008, 03:21 AM

now i´m hungry. breakfast pylsa ftw

roachboy · 09-01-2008, 06:28 AM

often to be tiny town is wearing a hat that is continually shrinking.
the accompanying effects on the flow of blood to the brain makes integration easy. inside outside it's all the same.
i keep having curious conversations with people.
late saturday night, late here referring to an entirely relative idea, 11 pm on a saturday night can be late in tinytowntime, i found myself talking to a bald man outside a local pub. i think he said to me: "i often find myself above people. once in oregon i started a men's group. do you ever feel that way?"
i did not know how to respond to him as i did not know what once having started a men's group in oregon felt like, though i have read "iron john" and afterward remember feeling "what a fucking stupid book" so i could empathize maybe.

perhaps this exchange is an indication of the degree to which i feel integrated in tiny town. perhaps it just happened. perhaps the entire memory is made up and speaks more to the effects of the continually shrinking hat than to anything else.

Captain Canada · 09-07-2008, 12:01 AM

Yeah, I'd say I feel I belong where I live now.

Seaver · 09-07-2008, 04:05 AM

Quote:

I cant wait for the day when i head back to central florida or Austin, Tx.

i will be so ecstatic.

Amen.

Been in the Chi now for 6 months... and the God's honest truth is I'm a Texas boy and always will be.

roachboy · 09-07-2008, 04:46 AM

i found chicago a tough place, if it's of any consolation, seaver.
i was there for two years and don't think i met anyone outside of the two networks i was part of, more or less--a philadelphia expat network, and one linked to the art institute.
i never liked chicago really, never felt i was part of anything there.
but i do miss the map room and the music scene and other, parallel things.
but they were more or less geographical features. you could turn up and have a great time and leave not knowing a single person new.

at a certain point, i decided it had to be my doing, but i've heard similar things from so many folk that i don't think it was.

Seaver · 09-07-2008, 06:23 AM

Quote:

i found chicago a tough place, if it's of any consolation, seaver.
i was there for two years and don't think i met anyone outside of the two networks i was part of, more or less--a philadelphia expat network, and one linked to the art institute.
i never liked chicago really, never felt i was part of anything there.
but i do miss the map room and the music scene and other, parallel things.
but they were more or less geographical features. you could turn up and have a great time and leave not knowing a single person new.

at a certain point, i decided it had to be my doing, but i've heard similar things from so many folk that i don't think it was.

Honestly it feels like High School it's so cliqish. Everyone it seems has lived here their whole lives, and are in no mood to have anyone new join them. People are nice when you talk to them, but it definitely feels like they are waiting for the conversation to end so they can go back to ignoring everyone else.

Much like New York it seems, I spent 1 week there and was ready to leave halfway through.

noodle · 09-07-2008, 06:54 AM

Wherever I've been, I've always felt comfortable and "at home".
Until I went back to visit. So I guess I grew out of each area. St. Augustine in college was difficult for many reasons (going back and forth twice a year, different dorm rooms, different rommates every year) but the location itself made me feel at home despite the small town. I had the fewest friends in Orlando but a group of classmates that fostered the sense of community and purpose. Sarasota is NOT the place I grew up anymore... where the hippies hung out outside the library and smoked pot and the cool people went to the topless beach. Too many high-rise condos and q-tips.
I've been in Jacksonville for 8 years and two months.
It's got the beach, some of the culture I need, hustle and bustle when I want it, quiet spots when I don't. It's a little overly-church focused at times, but I've learned how to shut it out. There are rednecks, society wenches, beach bums, yuppies, football players... you name it, we've got it. I'd like a mass-transit system but the city's just too damn big.
I feel at home near the water.
But then again, I felt really at home when I visited New York, San Francisco, Denmark and Sweden, too... maybe I'm just malleable.
Or maybe I only go places I like.

I think I could live almost anywhere that had sunshine. I have SAD so I must have sun sometimes.
Boston is not my town though.

08-27-2008, 01:36 PM	#3 (permalink)
snowy Kick Ass Kunoichi Location: Oregon	In my town, there are two very different communities to be a part of. There is Corvallis proper and then there is Oregon State University. I first felt really part of OSU when I was a sophomore at Mom's Weekend; everywhere my mom and I went on campus, I ran into someone I knew. As for Corvallis, I feel most connected to my community at community events where I run into people, like Saturday Market, or when I'm bicycling around town and people I work for or friends wave at me as I ride by. I'd say I first felt really integrated into the community last summer, and this summer has been much happier because of that integration. I've got my little niche here, so to speak. And I must say I like the Corvallis community better than the university community--it's much more liberal __________________ If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau

08-27-2008, 01:46 PM	#4 (permalink)
Halx Please touch this. Owner/Admin Location: Manhattan	It took me a while to feel like a New Yorker. I adapted to the transportation and the hoards of people and the social nature, but all of that was like playing a game to me. I never felt like a New Yorker until I'd been here a few years, when I finally moved INTO Manhattan and could then afford (time-wise) to stroll around and really get to know the 'hood. You still can't get me to cheer for the sports teams though. __________________ You have found this post informative. -The Administrator [Don't Feed The Animals]

08-27-2008, 01:56 PM	#5 (permalink)
mixedmedia has all her shots. Location: Florida	I've never integrated with this town. I certainly didn't integrate in Sulphur, Louisiana - willfully so. In fact, I haven't integrated with a place since I was a child. The places I lived in as a child, Atlanta then New Smyrna Beach, I still feel integrated with them when I go back. __________________ Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

08-27-2008, 04:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	I moved here in August of 2006 and I would say it took no more than a month or so for me to feel very comfortable here. That said, the first year was a bit lonely as my family was still in Toronto but what that year did was give me time to adjust to my new job and to explore my new city. As a result, many of my friends who've lived here all their lives say that I know the transit system and the city's layout better than they do (most ask me for direction if they need to get somewhere they've never been). I still don't feel entirely up to speed on the local politics and I am certainly still on a learning curve when it comes to many cultural practises. The cool thing is that there is, despite the locals insistence that their country is boring, so much to learn and do. __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

08-28-2008, 09:15 AM	#9 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I think eastern North Carolina will always be the place I belong. From day one to the day I left, it just felt right. With DC, it's not so much a matter of feeling like I belong. It's such a temporary place, almost nobody is a native and about half the population turns over every four to eight years. I think I realized I was de-sensitized to the area when I started noticing tourists. They didn't really stand out the first couple of years. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

08-27-2008, 01:09 PM	#2 (permalink)
Willravel ... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.	I've been here since I was in high school, but being in high school accelerates integration, I think. If I ever move, I'll head back to this thread, though!

08-27-2008, 02:07 PM	#6 (permalink)
MSD The sky calls to us ... Super Moderator Location: CT	My home town is a rich WASP paradise, which means I pretty much hate it. It's boring, there's little to do despite the two universities, and it's just not my thing. 20 miles away where I went to school and now work, I'm pretty integrated. Because of my job at the school (which also functions as a conference center,) I know people from a lot of local businesses, the Chamber of Commerce, a lot of nonprofits, and of course all the students. People know me by name at the local bars and I know my way around downtown and the suburban area uptown. I might move down there in a year or two if I can afford it.

08-28-2008, 08:59 AM	#8 (permalink)
ktspktsp Addict Location: Reykjavik, Iceland	I've been in Reykjavík since March 07, and I still don't feel very integrated. I don't think I will ever feel that way, unless I spent at least 5 more years here. This has a lot to do with the people and the language and the culture. However, my attachment to the city has been growing this summer, since I've been walking to work and back everyday instead of taking the bus. The walk is a bit over 2 miles each way, and there is more than one path that I use. Therefore I feel much more familiar with the town and its streets and its houses. Knowing where the pretty houses are, where I can see more cats on my walk , where the moss on the houses is greener, where the traffic is lighter, where the alleyways take me between houses, where the espresso is better and where lunch is cheaper... It all adds up to "knowing" more of the city, and thus belonging in it more. I guess I belong to an area when I know it by foot. I did not feel like I belonged in South-East PA since I had to drive most everywhere (although I would still walk sometimes from my house to the downtown in the small town I lived in, West Chester). By contrast I felt much more integrated in State College, PA (my college town) since I walked and biked everywhere there. And even in my hometown of Beirut, I feel much closer to the Western part than the Eastern part (though the latter can be prettier) because I never went there much until I was a teenager, since the town was split during my childhood. I guess I would have a hard time in suburbia.

08-28-2008, 09:21 AM	#10 (permalink)
Glory's Sun Registered User	Eastern NC is a place I don't belong. Ignoring all the bullshit conservatism and racial structures.. there is just nothing here. The beaches are nice but I just can't get over the mentality that so many seem to have here. While it seems to have potential for business opportunity and the quality of life (i.e. cost of living) isn't bad at all, It's just not a place I enjoy.

08-28-2008, 09:26 AM	#11 (permalink)
Poppinjay You had me at hello Location: DC/Coastal VA	I ran with a pretty liberal crowd there. Mostly college staffers and professors. Plus, it really matters where you live. Beaufort, downtown New Bern, Promise Land in Morehead City, nice. Vanceboro, Kinston, Havelock, Jacksonville, not so much. __________________ I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet

08-28-2008, 09:42 AM	#13 (permalink)
Fotzlid Junkie Location: Greater Boston area	In a couple of weeks, we will have been living in this house for 3 years. All my stuff is here. It looks like my place. The second I step outside and look around, I feel like this is all temporary and will go away soon. I have no sense of community here. I only know the names of 2 of the neighbors. We were here for a couple of months before the first one came over and introduced themselve. Haven't spoken with him since. We both work screwy hours and we don't have any children which I know is the majority of the reason we don't know the neighbors. It just doesn't feel like home here.

08-28-2008, 10:31 AM	#15 (permalink)
World's King Here Location: Denver City Denver	Denver is my city. __________________ heavy is the head that wears the crown

08-28-2008, 12:42 PM	#17 (permalink)
Xazy People in masks cannot be trusted Location: NYC	It is different in a Jewish orthodox community and easy to always belong there. When I moved to NYC, was easy to mesh in to that community and automatically be welcomed. But I have to say I felt home dec 8, 2003, the night after we got married and we went home Doc & I, then I was no longer a bachelor going away for weekends and looking to leave, I now had a home a place I just wanted to be.

08-28-2008, 03:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
Ananas Still Crazy Location: In my own time	I moved from CA to DC for college, and spent my those years on campus or around student hangouts. DC was considered dangerous then, so we played it safe. When I decided to stay in the area after graduation, I realized that I would have to broaden my horizons, so to speak, and that's when I started learning the city. Some things that made me feel I belonged were unconsciously saying y'all, driving the whole Capital Beltway, no longer noticing tourists, having a conversation that did not involve politics or the latest news on Capitol Hill, eating food from different cultures in restaurants and little cafes, stopping and talking to people sitting on their porches, and walking through Rock Creek Park. I think the defining moment for my family was when I said "I have to get back home" while on a holiday visit to California. __________________ it's gritty

08-28-2008, 04:22 PM	#20 (permalink)
Grasshopper Green ...is a comical chap Location: Where morons reign supreme	I've never felt at home in Utah, ever. Not even when I moved away from my hellish hometown and into Salt Lake City. Eastern NC is the only place I felt "at home" and truly comfortable with where I was. I hope to hell we'll be out of here in 6 months. __________________ "They say that patriotism is the last refuge to which a scoundrel clings; steal a little and they throw you in jail, steal a lot and they make you king" Formerly Medusa

08-28-2008, 04:35 PM	#21 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	I grew up in two places: Montreal and a place called the Wirral, which is across the river from Liverpool. When I moved to Toronto as a young man, it really took a very long time to really be happy in this area. I still don't like Toronto especially, but we're pretty happy in a town a little north of the city and feel a part of things. Some of that may have to do with the greater sense of permanence that comes with time and life experiences: we own a home, we have a child, we have careers, etc. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

08-28-2008, 07:48 PM	#23 (permalink)
SSJTWIZTA Master Thief. Master Criminal. Masturbator. Location: Windiwana	i dont feel at home at all here in Georgia. I cant wait for the day when i head back to central florida or Austin, Tx. i will be so ecstatic. __________________ First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. Then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist Then they came for me And there was no one left to speak out for me. -Pastor Martin Niemoller

08-28-2008, 08:18 PM	#24 (permalink)
inBOIL I have eaten the slaw	I've never felt a sense of belonging anywhere, and I don't think I ever will. I do get used to places, but never a connection that would make it difficult to leave. __________________ And you believe Bush and the liberals and divorced parents and gays and blacks and the Christian right and fossil fuels and Xbox are all to blame, meanwhile you yourselves create an ad where your kid hits you in the head with a baseball and you don't understand the message that the problem is you.

08-29-2008, 10:01 AM	#25 (permalink)
BadNick Riding the Ocean Spray Location: S.E. PA in U Sofa	I grew up in Philadelphia and was always exploring around, so I'm sure I know this area very well. While I've been in several other cities that also seem very appealing, I am a big fan of Philly. Until I was 29yo I lived in the city and liked it. When it was time for me to find a house, I wanted to stay near the city and I had certain neighborhoods that I targeted and searched; and then I found the house that I'm still living in now...that was in 1978. What appealed to me about this area back then and still today is that this neighborhood is less than 15 minutes from center city but it feels like a laid back, very safe, quiet little borough...but not dead at all; fun stuff's always happening, people are around...the place is alive. When I was the "young guy" in the neighborhood 30 years ago I right away hit it off very well with my neighbors, and even though many of those neighbors have changed...and I'm now one of the older neighbors here...I still feel like the people in this area are mostly friendly, civil, and caring about the quality of life here. edit: on top of that, we have one of the best school systems anywhere PLUS relatively low real estate taxes (since the township hauls in big bucks from many megabuck properties and commercial taxes) Last edited by BadNick; 08-29-2008 at 10:03 AM..

08-29-2008, 11:22 AM	#26 (permalink)
Cernunnos Insane Location: Orlando, Florida	I've lived in Orlando for roughly 16 years now, from the age of 4. I've never been able to cultivate a sense of community, and unlike New York, I don't believe this city has the same osmotic pull to draw folks in. Then again, throughout my days here, I haven't made much of an effort to integrate myself; by and large, I don't care for the city itself or the surrounding area, which feels unwelcoming, rushed, and ugly. There are thankfully havens within and around Orlando that offer breathing room. Leu Gardens is an oasis for those who need to escape daily life, wandering through a maze of plant life and trails. Wekiwa Springs and the Ocala National Forest are both able to offer a temporary return to nature, along with a more local area behind Moss Park, Split Oak Forest. Those are beautful, quiet places. I need that in my life and don't know how completely I could ever adapt to a cityscape, particularly one so large as Orlando. I feel somehow disconnected and can't be satisfied here. I'll be moving away when it is financially reasonable to do so and I've explored enough to find somewhere that I could see myself thinking of as home.

08-29-2008, 03:10 PM	#27 (permalink)
percy Addict	I'm back living in my home town and it feels like home. Some places I have lived, like Toronto, felt like I was existing there but didn't quite know why. I met several friends who remain friends to this day, but I could never get over that, "I am a visitor" feeling. I also think we have more than one home. Parts of Maine and New Hampshire make me feel like never wanting to leave and I get sad after staying there knowing I have to leave. But New York!!! In a past life if such a thing exists, I must have lived a lifetime there. Absolutely love it. When I fly into New York on business(especially LaGuardia since it always takes so long to land.The only circling pattern I enjoy) I see the skyline and feel like I am home, even though I am going to a hotel room. Funny, lived in a condo in Toronto,..it felt like a hotel room. Spend time in any New York hotel room and I feel like I belong there, at home.

08-29-2008, 05:17 PM	#28 (permalink)
mardigras Insane Location: not where you live	I moved to eastern tennessee from seattle last year and I've never felt more at home....people as a rule in big cities are cold and jaded, the people here are friendly , outgoing and couldn't be nicer...I really feel comfortable here......could be because I grew up in a small town in northern idaho and this reminds me of the way it was when I as a child.......... __________________ "Of all the things I've ever lost, I miss my mind the most."

08-30-2008, 03:58 AM	#29 (permalink)
jewels Eponymous Location: Central Central Florida	I haven't felt I belonged anywhere I've lived as an adult, probably because I'm in Florida and not much of a fan of the State. Driving back to my hometown of 18 years in New Jersey was great, but no tears welled up. Interestingly, I do feel that type of connection with both Charlotte (NC) and Seattle. __________________ We are always more anxious to be distinguished for a talent which we do not possess, than to be praised for the fifteen which we do possess. Mark Twain

08-30-2008, 01:05 PM	#30 (permalink)
ASU2003 immoral minority Location: Back in Ohio	I'm not sure I know how to belong anywhere. I had friends in Tempe/Scottsdale, but I had no money and no time to do anything. I have money here, and have started doing some stuff around town, but I don't have a group of friends to do stuff with.

08-31-2008, 08:24 AM	#31 (permalink)
lotsofmagnets Upright Location: reykjavík, iceland	read this thread a while ago and meant to respond but being the procrastinator that i am... well, to a large degree i have to echo ktspktsp & abaya. integrating here is nigh on impossible. BUT whether or not that is a problem really depends on people. i now have some people here who i can consider good, even close, friends and i have no problems hanging around them but in the more general community, yes, it´s very easy to feel like i´ve just stepped off the plane for the 1st time even having been here over a year. language is definitely a problem. icelandic is an extraordinarily difficult language and chances to practice it are near zero since almost everyone here speaks english so well. more often than not i´ll walk into a shop and communicate in icelandic but as soon as they hear an accent they´ll communicate in english, even if i persist in speaking icelandic. i´ve pretty much ground to a halt with learning the language because of these factors and i really don´t see myself putting much effort from here in especially now that i´m starting to take the idea of leaving much more seriously now. i´ll have to revive this thread in a year or 2 when i´ve made my next home and it´s looking like the netherlands at this stage. __________________ mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor. she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron. physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

08-31-2008, 09:03 AM	#32 (permalink)
speshul-k Insane	Been here all my life and it will always feel like home to me. Would not trade it for anywhere in the world.

09-01-2008, 03:21 AM	#34 (permalink)
lotsofmagnets Upright Location: reykjavík, iceland	now i´m hungry. breakfast pylsa ftw __________________ mother nature made the aeroplane, and the submarine sandwich, with the steady hands and dead eye of a remarkable sculptor. she shed her mountain turning training wheels, for the convenience of the moving sidewalk, that delivers the magnetic monkey children through the mouth of impossible calendar clock, into the devil's manhole cauldron. physics of a bicycle, isn't it remarkable?

09-01-2008, 06:28 AM	#35 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	often to be tiny town is wearing a hat that is continually shrinking. the accompanying effects on the flow of blood to the brain makes integration easy. inside outside it's all the same. i keep having curious conversations with people. late saturday night, late here referring to an entirely relative idea, 11 pm on a saturday night can be late in tinytowntime, i found myself talking to a bald man outside a local pub. i think he said to me: "i often find myself above people. once in oregon i started a men's group. do you ever feel that way?" i did not know how to respond to him as i did not know what once having started a men's group in oregon felt like, though i have read "iron john" and afterward remember feeling "what a fucking stupid book" so i could empathize maybe. perhaps this exchange is an indication of the degree to which i feel integrated in tiny town. perhaps it just happened. perhaps the entire memory is made up and speaks more to the effects of the continually shrinking hat than to anything else. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

09-07-2008, 12:01 AM	#36 (permalink)
Captain Canada Addict Location: University of North Carolina at Greensboro	Yeah, I'd say I feel I belong where I live now. __________________ Conclusion: Flamethrowers and Furries go togerther like Pol Pot and the Cambodian populace.

09-07-2008, 04:46 AM	#38 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	i found chicago a tough place, if it's of any consolation, seaver. i was there for two years and don't think i met anyone outside of the two networks i was part of, more or less--a philadelphia expat network, and one linked to the art institute. i never liked chicago really, never felt i was part of anything there. but i do miss the map room and the music scene and other, parallel things. but they were more or less geographical features. you could turn up and have a great time and leave not knowing a single person new. at a certain point, i decided it had to be my doing, but i've heard similar things from so many folk that i don't think it was. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite