08-05-2008, 09:06 PM | #41 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I was going to go to Trader Joe's tomorrow, but instead I'll head over to Safeway and I'll put together a 1 day diet and post the brand, price, and basic information. I'll provide a day of delicious foods, and the diet will not result in a person being hungry at all or sick. If you'd like, post an unhealthy, fast food-ish 1 day diet. Same stipulations: no hunger and no sick. |
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08-05-2008, 09:08 PM | #42 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: The South.
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This whole ordeal reminds me why I'm happy I'm not living in LA anymore. It smacks of irresponsible government and ignorant lawmakers who are simply trying to find a non-solution to a real problem simply so they look good. We are fat because we eat too much and don't exercise enough; keeping fast food out of South Central isn't going to fix that problem, it just means that the residents are going to have to go farther out of their way to eat their Big Macs. @ Cynth: I'm disappointed. While Carl's Jr. may be awesome -- Double Western Bacon Cheeseburger being their greatest creation -- everyone knows that In-N-Out is where it's at.
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"There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school." -- Thucydides |
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08-05-2008, 09:18 PM | #43 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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What does that prove Will? That a person can do it? Yes, a person can do it. People think it's expensive to live and eat in NYC. It is if you don't know where or how to eat cheap. The issue at stake here: Are people willing to do it? The sad answer to this question is, no they are not, or at least, a major demographic of people are not willing to do so. Just like I can tell people that it's possible to save money, the reality is if they don't save money, they don't save money. It's not much different than that. I can want it all I want, it won't change the reality of it being that people don't save money and don't spend money on healthy food. Even Whole Foods has tried to remarket themselves as a healthy and fair price alternative to Safeway, Krogers, Ralphs, etc. Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-05-2008, 09:18 PM | #44 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Atreides88, the caloric value of gasoline is astounding. It's much more efficient than anything you can even get at McDonald's. But does that mean drinking 2000 calories of gasoline a day will give you the same energy as 2000 calories of a balanced diet? No? Is that because the form it comes in is unfriendly to the human body? We have trouble digesting the form the calories come in? It's the same thing, only to a less extreme degree, with unhealthy foods that have a high caloric count. So yes, it's how you digest it and it can make all the difference in the world.
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08-05-2008, 09:19 PM | #45 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-05-2008, 09:21 PM | #46 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'm not arguing willingness, I'm arguing whether it's possible. I'm arguing that eating healthy doesn't have to be as expensive as you and Atreides88 make it out to be. If someone is unwilling to do the simple maths to have an efficient food budget, then too bad. I'm saying that it's possible, and I'll demonstrate that tomorrow afternoon. Unless you're already conceding that it's possible?
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08-05-2008, 09:29 PM | #47 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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But you can compare edible goods to edible goods. Calories are calories, what is important is nutrient density to the caloric density, which is obviously the point you are trying to make. But again, it's MORE expensive to make low calorie high nutrient density foodstuffs than it is to make high calorie low nutrient. Why? Because nutrients cost money. Think of supplements and how much those cost for the raw ingredients of nutrients. Densely packed nutrients are expensive. It is expensive to extract and refine first and foremost. There's no ability to dispute that. So you have something with empty calories, you want to add some sort of nutritional benefit to it, it will increase the costs of the product. This is simple economy of cost of raw materials. You can see it in fortified cereals. Surgary cereals are less expensive than "healthy" alternatives. But when you look at the nutritional information you find that it has just as many calories and almost as much sugars.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-05-2008, 09:31 PM | #48 (permalink) | |
Insane
Location: The South.
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I may have misunderstood what you meant by calorie quality. If your quality is based on whether the calorie intake from fresh foods is healthier because they have a higher number of vitamins and minerals than the crap you find at Mickie D's, then you'd have an argument. Basing it upon the fact that one's in burger form and the other's in fruit and veggie form is preposterous. Also, the calorie used to measure chemical potential in gasoline is not the same as the calorie used to measure chemical potential in food. The calorie is also an archaic unit. Cynth, you have a point. If only they were open 24 hours. Honestly, I'd settle for them opening a chain on the East Coast.
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"There is no need to suppose that human beings differ very much one from another: but it is true that the ones who come out on top are the ones who have been trained in the hardest school." -- Thucydides |
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08-05-2008, 09:34 PM | #49 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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That's not ever been what I've been driving at. I'm still stating that across the nation it's not possible for some markets. In other places it isn't possible because the individual will not do so.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-05-2008, 10:48 PM | #50 (permalink) |
All important elusive independent swing voter...
Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia
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I don't know Cyn, but I don't think it's that conclusive. I believe healthy food can definitely be cheaper than junk foods. That's one of the benefits of why I buy healthy (besides the health aspect). Saving money and enjoying a healthy diet need not be mutually exclusive.
Example: Trader Joes has decent groceries for a good price. Even eating at Mcdonalds gets pricey (I do this sometimes). I eat #2 breakfast, #3 lunch, #3 dinner: $16. 3 healthy meals made from Trader Joe's groceries comes out to less than $10. (2 eggs, toast, soy milk, oatmeal; turkey sandwich; turkey penne and salad).
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"The race is not always to the swift, nor battle to the strong, but to the one that endures to the end." "Demand more from yourself, more than anyone else could ever ask!" - My recruiter Last edited by jorgelito; 08-05-2008 at 10:53 PM.. Reason: Add |
08-06-2008, 12:55 AM | #51 (permalink) |
The Reforms
Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition
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A clarification that I did not think needed to be addressed, yet still does the debate of the issue continue in a manner that suggests that which is not proven: all foods provide adequate sustenance(calories) that when consumed in appropriximate quantities(say the basis of 2,000 daily) will sufficiently afford & attain a general sensation of complete nourishment or well-being(feeling full).
The above statement is false. It is a fallacy to equate the amount of calories in any food to that of another in order to comparably define its nourishing factor. Of course different foods provide different nutrients in varying degrees, but it is not suffice to state that once one reaches the plateau of 2,000 calories, or some fraction of that during any one meal, can one adequately resolve that you, me, or anyone else will feel fully-satisfied after consumption. E.g. Waking up, subject Amanda, subject Billy, and subject Colleen decide to prepare their respective breakfasts before tackling the day ahead of them. Amanda prepares toast, grits, orange juice, milk, and a serving of ham with honey. Caloric Content of food: 750 Billy on the other hand, goes to the backyard with a basket to hand-pick his meal; eight apples sliced, served baked along with a cup of sugar water. Caloric content of food: 750 Colleen opts to just drink coffee with cream & sugar to go. She pours herself a pint of hot brew into a thermos. Caloric content: 750 Intepret the above as you see fit. I'll just offer up that whether I decide to down cans of coke every waking hour today, I'll amass calories, but I will not feel full regardless of what the nutritional facts state in terms of the extemely high caloric content, among other things replete and devoid, within this concoction. Calories are not a universally equal or even accurate measurement of satisfying or fulfilling one's hunger. It is just a signpost; what you see is not necessarily what you will encounter. Certain foods are more apt to sate hunger by providing a full-feeling to our neural receptors & abdominal constrictions. Research: Feeling full "Eating behaviour is influenced by hunger and the rewarding properties of food (which drive us to eat) and by satiety signals (which tell us we're full), but little is known about how the brain integrates information from these pathways. Suspecting that the fat-derived hormone leptin might be involved, Sadaf Farooqi and Paul Fletcher, both Wellcome Trust Senior Fellows in Clinical Science from the University of Cambridge, studied two teenagers with congenital leptin deficiency. People with this condition eat excessively - even bland foods - but can be treated with leptin replacement therapy. Functional magnetic resonance imaging was used to measure the subjects' brain activity as they were shown images of food, both before and after a week of leptin treatment. Leptin altered brain activity in the ventral striatum, a brain area associated with pleasure and reward. The hormone also seemed to help the subjects to discriminate better between bland and tasty food. Before treatment, they strongly liked nearly all foods shown (from cauliflower to chocolate cake); after leptin replacement, the average scores fell. Leptin was also important in linking the liking of food with hunger. Brain activation in a specific striatal region was triggered by images of well-liked food, whether the leptin-deficient subjects were fasting or full. In healthy controls - and in the treated subjects - the response was seen only when people were hungry. The results suggest that leptin acts on the brain to decrease the perception of food reward and boost the response to satiety signals after eating."
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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi |
08-06-2008, 02:38 AM | #52 (permalink) |
Delicious
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I'm trying to change my diet because I've come to realize a snack, or 20 snacks and an unsatisfactory meal does not curb my appetite whereas I can eat a single large home cooked or high quality meal from one of our local home style places and not need to eat again for the rest of the day.
I totally agree with the zoning laws. Low income people are more likely to eat unhealthy, they're more likely to smoke, drink and be overweight. I know for damn sure I'd eat healthier if there wasn't a McD on every corner.
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“It is better to be rich and healthy than poor and sick” - Dave Barry |
08-06-2008, 04:35 AM | #53 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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And, I doubt the fellows in South Central determine the caloric density of their potential lunches before they buy them, but I guess I did go to the bathroom while I was watching Boyz in da Hood so I might've missed that scene. I wonder if they list caloric content on the side of 40oz bottles of malt liquor. If people were primarily concerned with calories when they picked their lunches you'd have a lot more people who eat nothing but pastries for lunch. |
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08-06-2008, 07:18 AM | #54 (permalink) | ||||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Not once, of the many times you've said this, have you actually demonstrated that I am wrong.
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Why? Is there a rule? Are there different kinds of calories? Nope, not at all. You just can't do it because it's unfair. Quote:
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Edit: looks like Jetee beat me to it. Damn you Benadryl. |
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08-06-2008, 07:58 AM | #55 (permalink) |
You had me at hello
Location: DC/Coastal VA
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I'd like to know where all these people in opposition to zoning live.
I've never lived anyplace that wasn't zoned. That is why I don't have a Wal Mart in my driveway. I've covered city council meetings for years and hear discussions all the time about how a business will affect an area. LA is just being more public about it, but this kind of thing happens all the time. Many cities have banned new big box construction. Is that mommy government? LA hasn't banned junk food, they've banned new construction of fast food restaurants. They've decided there are more usefull businesses for that particular area, like grocery stores, or prisons.
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I think the Apocalypse is happening all around us. We go on eating desserts and watching TV. I know I do. I wish we were more capable of sustained passion and sustained resistance. We should be screaming and what we do is gossip. -Lydia Millet |
08-06-2008, 07:59 AM | #56 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Cynthetiq:
I'm sorry but that study that concluded that a diet of low-calorie food costs $36.32 per day is bullshit. What are they basing it on, buying fresh fish at Whole Foods for $25 per pound? Is it all organic crap? I could easily spend $36/day on high calorie crap from chain restaurants if I wanted to. Our grocery budget is about $100-$150 per week for a family of four (two under the age of 4 so they can count as one). All of our food is prepared from scratch. I have chicken, beef, or pork and my wife has wild salmon or shrimp with just about every dinner/lunch. We usually make enough for dinner for all of us to have the same thing the next day for lunch. This averages out to $4.76 - $7.14 per person per day. We are barely spending $36 per WEEK per person. I should also add that $100-$150 per week covers everything. Food and household items like soaps, paper towels, health and beauty stuff, etc. It doesn't cover beer and about two fast food lunches per week that we have. We do it by shopping at multiple stores and finding deals. In Phoenix you can always find bonless skinless chicken breasts for no more than $2.50/pound. Frozen shrimp (26-30 ct) is about $7/pound. You have to know what stuff is cheap at each place. We go to Trader Joe's, Sprouts (an AZ/CA 'farmer's market' store, kind of like Henry's), and a couple of chain grocery stores. |
08-06-2008, 08:08 AM | #57 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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will, I'm not ignoring the nutrional value. I've been stating that nutrional dense food is more expensive to produce than empty non-nutritional foodstuffs.
It's a food manufacturing fact. Why are apple "fries" more expensive than taking apples and cutting them yourselves? Why is bagged lettuce more expensive than a head of lettuce? Junk food and most processed food has at least a 6 month shelf life. Because the work put into it has a cost. The shelf life of the food has a short span. It must be sold with X days or contain some sort of shelf stabilizer in order to preserve the food which also has a cost. This is why it really doesn't matter to a restaurant if they give you 1/4 lb burger or 1/3 lb burger. The raw materials aren't as expensive as the amount of work that gets put into it. I'm also going to state that the thing everyone has ignored here, is that the individual going to the market to buy these healthier foodstuffs has to have a knowledge and skill to make/create/prepare their own meals. There are many who do not have the skill to even boil water.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
08-06-2008, 08:16 AM | #58 (permalink) | |
Junkie
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Yes it takes skill to cook but it isn't that hard. It took me a couple of years to get to where I am but it has paid off. |
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08-06-2008, 08:22 AM | #59 (permalink) | ||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Show me a fast food that's more efficient in "full and sustained vs. cost" than lentils or rice. Quote:
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08-06-2008, 08:32 AM | #60 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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I don't know, but let's look at the article a bit better and see 370 types of food healthy and unhealthy, 2004 - 2006 over time.
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Why would junk food prices drop? Because managers need to move the product due to best before dates and shelf life. Wholesalers offer steep discounts to move inventory all the time just so that the market can rotate the shelf and regain shelf life. Quote:
I agree, I learned to cook for myself when I was 12-13. I have never worried about cooking something. I'm just lazy alot of the time when it can cost me just as much if not a little more to buy raw food ingredients than to have already cooked meals as take out or delivered to my home.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-06-2008, 08:54 AM | #61 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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-----Added 6/8/2008 at 12 : 56 : 25----- It is painfully obvious that the researchers screwed the results. Come on, $36 per day? They should have their degrees taken away from them for coming to that conclusion. Last edited by kutulu; 08-06-2008 at 08:56 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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08-06-2008, 09:05 AM | #62 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-06-2008, 09:39 AM | #64 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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what would help is a map with supermarket locations, fast food joints and income levels correlated.
then it'd make sense to debate the ordinance--which in general i support. typically, the problem is accessibility of alternatives, availability of public transportation, etc. in principle, this is not an issue that can be coherently reduced to yet another libertarian morality play. it's more about the geography of class. you know, socio-economic class, it's spatial expression and food supply. there are a ton of studies about cities around the united states in which poorer neighborhoods do not have supermarkets, do not have bodegas, are not served by public transit but do have a shit-ton of fast food joints. if la is like, say, parts of philadelphia have been (and may still be---my information is about 3 years old on it) the city is perfectly within its rights and obligations to act and collapsing the question back onto "choice" is superficial. the problem is that i do not have the geographical data at hand--does someone else have actual information about this, something that goes beyond nutritional releases for chain restos? i'll look around tonight if no-one is working with this kind of information--which is a little surprising, given how long the thread is and how pissy some of it has been.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
08-06-2008, 09:48 AM | #65 (permalink) | ||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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sure, you keep talking past it.
Again, processed food is cheaper to distribute and consume. Healthy food costs more per calorie. You can even go by food deserts where there is no grocery store available but just convenience stores. Quote:
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-06-2008, 10:05 AM | #66 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'll pet it in simple terms: What will make you more full, a $1.00 double cheeseburger from McDonald's or $1.00 worth of oatmeal (which is about 1 lb. dry, and thus easily 4-5 lbs. when cooked)? And that's my expensive organic oats. You can occasionally find oats for $0.50/lb. |
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08-06-2008, 10:19 AM | #67 (permalink) |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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jettee: I'm going buy SHOPPING and BUYING habits of people in grocery stores and food markets. The idea of feeling full as Jetee is postulating has nothing to do with poor people since they don't know or can't tell the difference. This isn't endemic to US, it's the same in any country. People fish, instead of consuming the fish, they sell it and buy rice which fills up their belly more than they fish. This isn't a FEELING this is about seeing MORE mass and volume which equates psychologicially to a fuller belly.
you've demonstrated it's possible, I don't and can't refute that. But what I have been and still am talking about is that studies show that poor people are not good at making healthy and nutrional choices. What can I get and not prepare and eat since I'm in a hurry? a $1.00 double cheese burger or $1 oatmeal? There is plenty of articles and evidence the people are poor choosers in getting nutritional meal and foodstuffs. If it were why would the processed food groups start with a Healthy food program? Because they know that a little education can hurt their overall sales. rb: that's the area we're talking about: I can't locate a mashup of grocery stores just yet, but here's all the major fast food franchises in LA. fastfoodmaps.com | google maps + fast food
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. Last edited by Cynthetiq; 08-06-2008 at 10:24 AM.. Reason: added images |
08-06-2008, 10:26 AM | #68 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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They take the exact same amount of time, Cynth. I can cook a meal's worth of oatmeal (1.5-2 cups) in a microwave in about 2 minutes. I can get a double cheeseburger in about 2 minutes (actually it's a bit longer where I am, but let's just say it takes 2).
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08-06-2008, 10:28 AM | #69 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Again, we're talking about people's choices.. and see we can tell based on studies that people make bad choices about healthy food choices.
__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-06-2008, 10:35 AM | #70 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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thanks cyn--it'll take a bit of cross-mapping to make sense of this.
seriously, though, this is a class geography question and not one of motivation or its correlates in petit-bourgeois morality. if you can't get to outlets which sell decent food, if you're stuck in a work-grind that gives you very little time to tool about and if the public transportation system is not good and there are fast-food places around that sell shitty food for cheap, then the problem is obvious and has everything to do with problems of distribution. this is not unique to l.a. if you think about it at a remove, that many poor urban neighborhoods around the country find themselves without grocery stores but with fast food restos, it amounts to a decision on the part of lovely lovely capitalism to abandon the well-being of these folk except insofar as they can be relieved of their cash by owners of fast-food franchises. it is an ugly reality. an ugly market market reality. in other contexts, a conservative might say "think of the children" but curiously that line hasn't come up here i wonder why that is.
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
08-06-2008, 10:51 AM | #71 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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BTW, it's not education it's laziness. As I said before, "Show me someone who doesn't know an apple is healthier than a cheeseburger and I'll eat my hat." Short of mental disabilities, everyone is aware of at least basic facts about nutrition. So why doesn't everyone have a healthy diet? They're lazy. They don't want to do the legwork I did for this thread (which probably amounts to about 15 minutes web surfing or maybe 20 minutes at a supermarket). They grab what they want to eat and then go. Or they do a bit of homework and eat healthy. I make more than enough money to spend $36 a day on healthy food, but I don't. I looked at my budget and found that I average only about $300 a month for myself on groceries. Why, that's $10 a day and I'm not even trying to shop cheap (as a matter of fact, I shop at Whole Foods and Trader Joe's most of the time, which means my food is a bit more expensive). It's not $3 a day, of course, but I'll probably live well into my 80s and have a higher quality of life. If I really budgeted, I'm sure I could bring my spending down below $150 a month—Ch'i (my little brother) spends even less than that, maybe $130. That's $4.33 a day, and he eats even healthier than I do. BTW, Cynth, do you know of anyone who spends $1080 on him or herself for food? Not for a family (I could feed a family of 6 on that), but just him or herself? That study is obviously wrong. |
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08-06-2008, 12:20 PM | #72 (permalink) | ||||
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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What the World Eats, Part I - Photo Essays - TIME Quote:
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__________________
I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. Last edited by Cynthetiq; 08-07-2008 at 08:59 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost: changed US family to $341 |
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08-06-2008, 12:39 PM | #73 (permalink) |
Wise-ass Latino
Location: Pretoria (Tshwane), RSA
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Once again, you people obsess too much over fat people.
__________________
Cameron originally envisioned the Terminator as a small, unremarkable man, giving it the ability to blend in more easily. As a result, his first choice for the part was Lance Henriksen. O. J. Simpson was on the shortlist but Cameron did not think that such a nice guy could be a ruthless killer. -From the Collector's Edition DVD of The Terminator |
08-06-2008, 12:44 PM | #74 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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But Cynth your argument is that healthy food is more expensive than unhealthy food. I disagree with that, and I believe that if that misunderstanding can be debunked that more people might want to eat healthy because they'll realize that it's economically viable even if you're on a very tight budget.
My original statement, that started this tangent was "healthy food is cheaper than fast food". Maybe I should correct that to this: "Budgeting properly, healthy food can be substantially cheaper than any fast food as far as keeping you alive, full, and healthy." I believe this to be true, and I'm still willing to demonstrate it if you're willing to do the same. Post a day's worth of fast food and I'll post a day's worth of healthy, balanced food and we'll see who comes out with a lower price tag. |
08-06-2008, 12:45 PM | #75 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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Just out of curiousity, what is it about the politicians and elites in california that deems them worthy of forcing others to live how they want them to?
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
08-06-2008, 12:53 PM | #76 (permalink) | |
Tilted Cat Head
Administrator
Location: Manhattan, NY
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Quote:
I won't have time to collect information in the next day or so, but I'll try to.
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I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. |
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08-06-2008, 01:03 PM | #78 (permalink) | |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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Quote:
you must remember that the issue here is about access, not whether or not they know better. These people do not have access to healthy calories. Other articles I read regarding the ordinance clearly illustrate that people in South Central have easier access to these fast food restaurants than a grocery store, especially considering most of the people in that area apparently don't drive and are reliant on public transportation or their own feet to get them to and from places. I can tell you from experience that it's no picnic to carry home a week's worth of groceries via public transportation; it's downright discouraging, time-consuming, and an all-around pain in the ass. So what do these people choose? Going to the grocery store that's 3 transfers away on the bus or going to the Burger King down the street where they can get a Whopper, Jr.for 99 cents? We know which is the better choice, but what's the easier choice? This ordinance is meant to encourage development of access to those healthy calories by prohibiting continued development of access to unhealthy calories. And yes, Cynth, I think it's pretty safe to say South Central Los Angeles is a food desert. For the record, I eat a very healthy diet, and find it's more expensive to do so than the diet my roommate eats, which is mostly boxed, processed food. I have access to a farmer's market, though, which brings the cost down. Clearly, these people do not enjoy the access the rest of us do, and we would do well to remember that.
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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau |
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08-06-2008, 01:10 PM | #79 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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so democracy is now redefined as the majority telling the minority that not only are these types of conduct prohibited, but we are also not responsible enough to provide for our own choices, so you'll do it for us?
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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08-06-2008, 01:17 PM | #80 (permalink) |
Super Moderator
Location: essex ma
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dk--so a decision made by a supermarket chain to pull it's stores out of poorer areas of a city is an example of freedom, but an action on the part of a city to PARTIALLY address the consequences of that decision is oppression?
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a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite |
Tags |
fast, food, neighborhoods, poor, prohibiting, restaurants |
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