04-03-2008, 11:00 PM | #1 (permalink) |
Twitterpated
Location: My own little world (also Canada)
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Anyone have ideas on the actual dangers of cellphones?
This came back to my mind via the thread about the something something collider and the infintesimal possibility of it destroying the world. I admit that my knowledge of the natural sciences is only passing, for the most part, but it seems that any EM radiation with a longer wavelength than light should be fairly harmless, should it not? It's the higher-energy UV/X-Ray/etc. radiation that we have strong evidence for damaging DNA.
Anyone who's a little more knowledgeable on the principles of the subject want to chime in?
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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato |
04-03-2008, 11:36 PM | #2 (permalink) |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
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cell phones emit microwaves, which are what's known as non-ionising radiation. The only proven effect that they have on the human body is a slight increase in temperature.
FUN FACT - Using a cellular phone could be very loosely equated with microwaving your head. And it's called a Large Hadron Collider, or LHC for short.
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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
04-04-2008, 05:32 AM | #4 (permalink) |
I'll ask when I'm ready....
Location: Firmly in the middle....
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I know that it's dangerous to use your cellphone at my workplace. That's the kind of thing the managers get a little bent about, especially if you're running the forklift at the time.
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"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me- "Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown- DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer- |
04-04-2008, 08:03 PM | #5 (permalink) |
Twitterpated
Location: My own little world (also Canada)
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Sweet link, Augi! I forgot about those projects. *signs up*
Martian: much as I suspected. I remember a test wherein they cooked an egg or something with a pair of cell phones. lol
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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein "Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato |
04-04-2008, 08:24 PM | #8 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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This case is surprisingly complicated, actually. One of the few peer reviewed studies done was conducted by the Radiation and Nuclear Safety Authority in Finland. They concluded that the RF exposure can cause blood vessel walls to shrink, which poses a danger in that some potentially dangerous molecules that would otherwise be deflected could come into contact with brain tissue. This effect would be cumulative with certain molecules, which means that the cumulative effect of speaking on cell phones over many years may pose a danger.
Other peer reviewed studies have been held and usually say that there is no risk, but still suggest not to allow children to use cell phones (which one must admit is somewhat suspicious). Considering how long it took for conclusive proof about smoking to be uncovered as dangerous, I would like to see a lot more study. |
04-04-2008, 08:31 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Indiana
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It's time for the president to hand over his nobel peace prize. |
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04-04-2008, 08:32 PM | #10 (permalink) |
peekaboo
Location: on the back, bitch
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Years ago, a man in California sued (someone or something) because his wife had died of brain cancer and he was convinced it was because of her cellphone.
He lost his case, but wouldn't that be fine vindication if those studies were found to be quite relevant? |
04-04-2008, 08:45 PM | #11 (permalink) | |
Confused Adult
Location: Spokane, WA
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04-04-2008, 08:51 PM | #12 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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If cell phones are causing cancer, I want those responsible in prison and them to stop making dangerous products. |
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04-04-2008, 09:35 PM | #13 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I don't use my cellphone that much, although I did just get a very cool new one with a blue tooth.... but I still won't use it much except to call Lady Sage or others in my family or work for a short period of time. Let me put it this way I have a 450 minute monthly plan, I don't even touch that in 6 months and that includes free minutes. So I'm not too worried. But people who live on it.... they may have serious side effects. Course the conspiracist in me believes that the government and Illuminati are using cell phones along with many other items of leisure and privilege to control population. Get people addicted to these items so that some weird disease comes out 40-50 years later and kills millions of people. After all this is a new technology.... how do you know long term effects until it has been around for a long term test? You just don't. But they have he money and scientists that could run the serious tests needed.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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04-04-2008, 10:04 PM | #14 (permalink) |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
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Okay, time to blind y'all with science.
Here's the deal - the bulk of energy that floats around in our happy little Universe is what we call electromagnetic energy. See, at first we thought that radio waves and light waves and heat waves were all completely different, but it turns out that they're actually different flavours of the same thing. Well, except the last one. That's a meteorological phenomenon. So what we have now are all of these different types of energy that we thought were different, all on one spectrum. The only difference between microwaves and visible light and UV radiation is wavelength. Quantum theory: a particle may not release energy in arbitrary amounts, but must do so in discrete units. These units are called quanta. A quantum could be likened to a box; all of the quantum boxes are the same size and that's the size the energy has to be released in. But energy with a shorter wavelength is denser, and therfore more of it can be crammed into the quantum box than can be done with less dense energy, in much the same way that more concrete can be placed in a physical box than styrofoam, when measured by mass. So, cell phones. Cell phones broadcast and receive transmissions in the microwave portion of the electromagnetic spectrum. As it turns out, the area of the spectrum designated as microwaves is pretty big, with wavelengths varying from approximately 30 cm right down to 1 mm; by contrast, the visible light portion of the spectrum varies by about 300 nm - that's nanometres, or 300 billionths of a metre. Okay, so microwaves cover a lot of ground, and it's relatively long wavelength, low frequency. But what do they do to people? Not a whole lot, really. Got a wireless network? You're being bathed in microwaves as you read this. The type of radiation that we need to be concerned about is what's known as ionising radiation. It's named that because it has the capability to alter substances on a molecular level by knocking off an electron (turning them into an ion). Low frequency, long wavelength energy isn't energetic enough to do this - it doesn't pack enough energy into a quantum to knock an electron off a molecule. This type of energy is therefore known as non-ionising radiation, because it's incapable of changing stuff molecularly (and therefore incapable of giving you cancer by causing molecular changes in DNA molecules). Happily, the visible light spectrum acts as a handy delineation between ionising and non-ionising radiation; there is a small portion of the UV spectrum that is non-ionising, but anything above that is dangerous in large quantities and anything below it is more or less harmless. Since microwaves, infra-red and RF radiation all fall well below visible light on the spectrum, we can be reasonably confident that they pose no risk. So how do cell phones cook an egg? Well, as I mentioned above cell phones do use microwaves, and as I also jokingly pointed out, using a cell phone could be very loosely equated with microwaving your head. Yeah, they're the same type of microwaves that your microwave oven uses to heat your leftovers. The thing is, cell phones use so little power in comparison to a microwave that there isn't any real risk to people - given that your head is denser than an egg and that you have this excellent system for dumping waste heat generated by the microwaves, you really have nothing to worry about. Even cooking an egg requires multiple high-output units and takes a fairly long time. So, yeah. Cellphones, sadly, will not turn you into the hulk. You may go about your daily business with no concern.
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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
04-05-2008, 03:18 AM | #15 (permalink) |
Crazy
Location: Montreal
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When I had my kidney stone attack over a year ago and had to go to the emergency room, I asked the security guard if I could use my cell phone in its airplane mode i.e. all radios off (I had some reading material on the memory card).
Not only did the guard understand what I was asking, he even pointed out that the major problem with cell phones in hospitals was not with the cell phone radio, but with the Bluetooth radio! When hospital equipment started to go crazy, apparently it always happened when the phone had its Bluetooth radio active. If the phone didn't have Bluetooth or the Bluetooth radio was off, there was no problem. Still, it isn't very reassuring. I've yet to see any consumer electronic product anywhere be adversely affected by any of today's modern cell phones. But put a cell phone near some hospital equipment and it goes crazy? Just what kind of knuckleheaded medical equipment engineers are designing this stuff that they can't even figure out how to build a proper Faraday cage? |
04-05-2008, 09:19 AM | #16 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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04-05-2008, 02:15 PM | #17 (permalink) | |
Young Crumudgeon
Location: Canada
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I wake up in the morning more tired than before I slept I get through cryin' and I'm sadder than before I wept I get through thinkin' now, and the thoughts have left my head I get through speakin' and I can't remember, not a word that I said - Ben Harper, Show Me A Little Shame |
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04-06-2008, 08:34 AM | #18 (permalink) | |
Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side
Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.
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not trying to be a prick here will, but isn't it your aunt who is responsible for the cancer that took her life? or was big tobacco forcing her to smoke?
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He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin... |
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04-06-2008, 08:46 AM | #19 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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04-06-2008, 06:47 PM | #20 (permalink) |
Dumb all over...a little ugly on the side
Location: In the room where the giant fire puffer works, and the torture never stops.
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meh...as a smoker myself...I blame ONLY myself for not having quit.
pray tell, do you blame "BIG LIQUOR" for every dead drunk the world over?
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He's the best, of course, of all the worst. Some wrong been done, he done it first. -fz I jus' want ta thank you...falettinme...be mice elf...agin... |
04-07-2008, 08:23 PM | #21 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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04-07-2008, 08:46 PM | #22 (permalink) | |
Eat your vegetables
Super Moderator
Location: Arabidopsis-ville
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From a summary of a 2003 study by Sweedish scientists:
link Quote:
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"Sometimes I have to remember that things are brought to me for a reason, either for my own lessons or for the benefit of others." Cynthetiq "violence is no more or less real than non-violence." roachboy |
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04-07-2008, 09:29 PM | #23 (permalink) | |
The sky calls to us ...
Super Moderator
Location: CT
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04-08-2008, 08:44 AM | #24 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: San Antonio, TX
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Coincidentally, one of my new favorite blogs just did a post about this very subject (well, the more limited subject of 'do cellphones cause tumors?')
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04-08-2008, 08:53 AM | #25 (permalink) |
Lover - Protector - Teacher
Location: Seattle, WA
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When you consider the fact that non-ionizing radiation is only dangerous when powered by an extremely powerful source, it's hard to be worried about cell phones. My cell phone battery won't even last for a full day turned on.. somehow I doubt it has enough power to actually induce increased temperature within my body.
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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel |
04-08-2008, 11:22 AM | #27 (permalink) |
Lover - Protector - Teacher
Location: Seattle, WA
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That is only the issue if you fail to understand what de-ionizing radiation is.
If you're strictly speaking about the heat, then one could argue that the initial effect of hot showers is negligible, but that cumulative effects may be more serious. Our bodies are rather effective at dissipating heat, and there is no known "long term effect" of intermittent exposure to it. I take a hot shower every morning and the water hitting my head is about 120 degrees. I'm not worried about the "cumulative effect" it will have on me. Are you?
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"I'm typing on a computer of science, which is being sent by science wires to a little science server where you can access it. I'm not typing on a computer of philosophy or religion or whatever other thing you think can be used to understand the universe because they're a poor substitute in the role of understanding the universe which exists independent from ourselves." - Willravel |
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actual, cellphones, dangers, ideas |
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