12-15-2007, 08:24 PM | #121 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
|
First off, they should screen everyone. It's airport security. I don't want anyone bringing on anything they shouldn't be.
Second, I don't think alienating the Muslim community through humiliating and unethical "special treatment" is a good idea at this time. I think everyone wants Muslims to feel like they're helping, not that they're being all but accused of being terrorists.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
12-16-2007, 01:36 AM | #122 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: France
|
Quote:
Now, what would make us feel safer? This might belong to another thread, but just for the sake of discussion: Better detectors, for one. I've read countless stories of people forgetting their knife/lighter in their pocket and going through security without being stopped. Also, I wouldn't mind having my ID checked as I board the plane. Once you're through security, you basically don't need an ID. Just your boarding pass. That's not reassuring Air marshals would be great, too. They certainly could prevent a few guys armed with boxcutters. The terrorists might not use planes next time. If they do, though, it'd be good to have smarter security policies, and way more effective than racial profiling.
__________________
Check it out: The Open Source/Freeware/Gratis Software Thread |
|
12-16-2007, 04:03 AM | #123 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
|
Quote:
__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
|
12-16-2007, 05:09 AM | #124 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
And now some people close to this young girl are saying the hijab had nothing to do with it, that other women in the same family were not wearing the hijab.
Maybe the death of this young girl has sweet f-all to do with being Muslim and everything to do with being part of a disfunctional, stressed out family - as unfortunately happens often enough in "Christian" families. http://www.canada.com/topics/news/na...b-44ea5a8a7c36 Sorry, I cannot seem to cut and paste the relevant portion of the articles. My browser, I think, not a TFP related problem.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
12-16-2007, 05:22 AM | #125 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: The Danforth
|
here here. This has all the hallmarks of a long simmering conflict between teenaged daughter who was interested in hanging with her peers, and traditional, old-world minded father whose temper was definitely not held in check. Add on to that the issues that can cause flare ups such as stress of odl/new world culture and you have a situations where tragedy can happen.
Outside the family, the media can put a simplistic spin on the events, such as hijab/integration etc, but i suspect that it was much deeper than this. |
12-16-2007, 07:57 AM | #126 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
This is not an isolated incident.
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
|
12-16-2007, 09:24 AM | #127 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
http://www.law-lib.utoronto.ca/Diana/fulltext/wile.htm
For example, in many countries, domestic violence has only recently been recognized as a crime. In other countries, it is considered to be outside the state's jurisdiction ... Mertus further documents that "in Brazil, until 1991 wife killings were considered to be noncriminal "honor killings'; in just one year, nearly eight hundred husbands killed their wives. Similarly, in Colombia, until 1980, a husband legally could kill his wife for committing adultery." Best to do up a 4 page post and innumerable media articles on all those Christian South Americans too. Seriously, whether this case is an honour killing or not that is directly related to Islam (which is unlikely, as this sort of thing is rare in places like Malaysia), directly related to local custom (possible) or just a case of a fucked up family and father (perhaps the most likely scenario), it is interesting to note how such practices occur today in some Latin American countries, in African nations (both Christian and Muslim). It wasn't that long ago (and I mean within my lifetime) that such things occured in Italy and Greece, too. The point being that family violence is an issue a lot larger than one of "well, it's a Muslim problem".
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
12-16-2007, 10:46 AM | #128 (permalink) |
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
|
Some good points. What we see here is a particular brand of violence against women. At the risk of sounding repetitive, this is a cultural problem based on corrupt Islamic dogma.
It's true this isn't an isolated incident. This is not a reason to apply a disproportionate amount of indiscriminate pressure on the Muslim community as a whole. A friend of mine was severely abused verbally and emotionally (and sometimes physically, I think) by her old-world Italian mother. She constantly degraded her, making her feel like a sexual deviant despite being chaste out of fear. There was little logic to her words; they were based on ignorance and a measure of hate. A very devout Christian woman. This wasn't a Christian thing per se, it was an old-Sicilian-Christian-now-living-in-Canada thing.
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
12-16-2007, 11:43 AM | #129 (permalink) | ||
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
||
12-16-2007, 11:51 AM | #130 (permalink) | ||
warrior bodhisattva
Super Moderator
Location: East-central Canada
|
Quote:
Quote:
__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot |
||
12-17-2007, 02:05 AM | #131 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Tramtária
|
Quote:
If you're blind I don't think you would be offended if someone noticed that you cannot see. In dangerous situations those involved know the score. I think that if I were an American Arab (concerned about the lives of my family) I'd like to know that the U.S. government is doing something to protect me. Controlling Arabs more than anyone else would probably comfort me rather than offend me. That's the way it should be too. |
|
12-17-2007, 09:11 AM | #133 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Ontario, Canada
|
Quote:
It's like Pavlov's Dog.
__________________
Si vis pacem parabellum. |
|
12-19-2007, 03:15 AM | #136 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Tramtária
|
Quote:
Last edited by Fast Forward; 12-19-2007 at 03:19 AM.. |
|
12-19-2007, 05:43 AM | #137 (permalink) | |
Banned
|
Quote:
Last edited by analog; 12-19-2007 at 05:45 AM.. |
|
12-19-2007, 06:34 AM | #138 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
|
12-20-2007, 04:23 AM | #139 (permalink) | ||
Banned
Location: Tramtária
|
Quote:
I'll folllow your lead back, how's that? You're welcome. Quote:
Last edited by Fast Forward; 12-20-2007 at 04:25 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
12-20-2007, 06:01 AM | #140 (permalink) | ||
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
|
Quote:
Quote:
Fast Forward. Let's put the attitude away, what say? I think that you've pretty much expended your allotment of "snarkiness", and are now beginning to operate on a deficit. 'Nuff said?
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
||
12-20-2007, 07:00 AM | #141 (permalink) | |
Pissing in the cornflakes
|
Quote:
__________________
Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
|
12-21-2007, 12:59 AM | #142 (permalink) | |
Banned
Location: Tramtária
|
Quote:
If perpetual motion had been given its' full reign "the attitude" would have been put to sleep by now, but you think your comment is some kind of lofty contribution to diplomatic peace? Jesus wept. Here's some advice: Go back to sleep and "the attitude" will join you. Now .... "nuff said". Unless you'd like to enter the arena one more time? |
|
12-21-2007, 01:28 AM | #143 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
|
Quote:
__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
|
12-21-2007, 12:10 PM | #145 (permalink) |
Currently sour but formerly Dlishs
Super Moderator
Location: Australia/UAE
|
wow.. i go and come back and theres a thread i thought looked interesting..
would have loved to contribute.. and as a liberal muslim, would have loved to contribute to the discussion as i think i would have had much to add to the discussion. unfortunately the way this thread has gone, it irks be to think that i'd rather not contribute as i personally think that it really think that any additions i made wouldnt be constructive given the downward spiral this thread has taken.
__________________
An injustice anywhere, is an injustice everywhere I always sign my facebook comments with ()()===========(}. Does that make me gay? - Filthy |
12-21-2007, 01:06 PM | #146 (permalink) | |
Asshole
Administrator
Location: Chicago
|
Quote:
__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin "There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush "We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo |
|
12-21-2007, 01:38 PM | #147 (permalink) | |
will always be an Alyson Hanniganite
Location: In the dust of the archives
|
Quote:
__________________
"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony "Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt. |
|
12-21-2007, 04:20 PM | #148 (permalink) | |
Location: Iceland
|
Quote:
__________________
And think not you can direct the course of Love; for Love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course. --Khalil Gibran |
|
12-21-2007, 09:39 PM | #149 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Toronto
|
Quote:
I agree with Ustwo. The murder of this girl is an example of how some cultures in this world are indeed fucked up. Sorry to be politically incorrect, but cutting off women's clitorises, and honour killings for not wearing the appropriate garb is just plain crazy. Why anyone would want to import any such culture to North America is beyond me. I'm all for multiculturalism when it comes to food, or restaurants. After that, I'll take my western civilization complete with the separation of church and state and equal rights for all thank you very much. Xephries, fascinating post by the way. Quote:
Or living in fear like Irshad Manji who wrote "The trouble with Islam." http://www.irshadmanji.com/ This week in Toronto a 16-year-old Muslim girl was murdered, allegedly by her own father. Aqsa Parvez told friends and adults at her public high school that she feared what her father would do if she stuck by her decision to reject the hijab — the Islamic headscarf. She also said it’s better to live in a shelter than at home. Nobody listened. Now she’s dead. Moderate Muslims have warned that we shouldn’t leap to conclusions. Who knows what other dynamics infected her family, spout hijab-hooded mouthpieces on Canadian TV. Not once have I heard these upstanding Muslims say that whatever the “family dynamics,” killing is not a solution. Ever. How’s that for basic morality? Of course, mainstream Muslims will argue that I’m the one who needs to learn basic morality. After all, they’ll say, the Qur’an obligates pious women to wear the hijab. Not quite. The Qur’an asks women and men to dress modestly. That could mean wearing long sleeves. The hijab itself comes from tribal culture that pre-dates Islam. And culture, far from being God-given, is man-made. You need venture no further than Muslim Girl magazine to witness how mainstream Muslims reinforce the lie that the hijab is mandatory. This supposedly hip (and certainly glossy) publication routinely features covered girls as their cover girls. So much for representing the full diversity of the Muslim sisterhood. Even “progressive” non-Muslims fall into this trap. Study the photo above. It’s a post-card flogged by the Interfaith Center of New York. Can you detect even one Muslim woman who’s not covered? I see the veiled chick at the far end. It gets less conservative from there — but not to the point of depicting a Muslim woman who prays without submitting herself to a scarf. Worse, the blurb on the back celebrates the “diversity of Muslim communities in the city.” Show me where. Of course, the diversity exists in spades. So does the tension between Muslim parents and their daughters. In Berlin earlier this year, a group of young Muslim women — not a hijabi among them! — approached me to express gratitude that I’d posted an Islamic defense of inter-faith marriage. Because this document is written by an imam, they can use it to legitimately challenge parents and clerics who want to force girls into loveless marriages with other Muslims. These young women told me that the Islamic inter-faith marriage defense is being downloaded by their friends. It’s also being used by German social services to counsel distraught Muslim girls. For all of my readers who feel powerless to help another Aqsa Parvez, I have simple advice: Listen to her. Then come to this website for resources in various languages. Be not afraid of anything except complacency. Meanwhile, may Aqsa rest in peace. Finally. Last edited by james t kirk; 12-21-2007 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
||
Tags |
father, girl, killed, muslim, teenage |
|
|