Halifax

I've just gotten back from Great Britain where I've spent the last month. Being in a foreign country, I naturally got to thinking about language and how we perceive it. We in the US usually think of British speech as being somehow more refined or intelligent, at least when spoken properly. At least that's the stereotype on this side of the Atlantic.

I remembered, however, something I read a while back which claimed that British people, (or other English speakers), perceive American English, or at least the American accent, as intelligent and refined. I don't remember the source of this claim, so I'm not sure how much I trust it. I wonder, though, whether this is true, and whether anyone out there, outside the US, thinks the American accent sounds refined.

I'm talking here, of course, about the General American accent, (sometimes called "Standard Midwestern") as compared to the British Received Pronunciation. It's what you hear on the national news and other times that a professional, "regionless" American accent is required. Regional dialects are, of course, another matter entirely. It would hardly be fair to compare a thick Scottish brough with a Southern drawl.

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Philosopher-in-Training

“The present writer…writes because for him it is a luxury which becomes the more agreeable and more evident, the fewer there are who buy and read what he writes.”
—Søren Kierkegaard

Willravel

That's how I speak, and I'm not refined. I'm curious to hear from some brits on this.

MSD

Every Brit I've heard talk about it said exactly the opposite: that American English is unrefined, uncultured, a bastardization of the English language, etc.

Baraka_Guru

Your spelling is refined. I mean that in a bad way...like carbohydrates refined. You drop too many "u"s and double letters.

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Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Willravel

Color instead of colour, eh? Hey wait....don't you say 'zed' where we say 'zee' for the final letter in the alphabet?!

roachboy

american english is not an animate being--it cannot be intelligent or not or anything else like that.
it is a medium.
it is the people who use it who are either intelligent or otherwise.
some folk say that unintentional anthropomorphisms are an indication of something.
they never tell me what though.
i can only speculate.
you don't want that.

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Baraka_Guru

I'm sorry....what did you just say?!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Charlatan

roachboy has it.

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ShaniFaye

I think Eddie Izzard sums it up nicely for me. I'd much prefer to hear British or Scottish people talk than americans lol I rather like their word pronuciations over ours. I could say aluminum the way the Brits do....the way Americans do it wont come out of my mouth right

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Willravel

It's just a sound. Like "huh?" or "heh".

Jetée

This is a topic on the auditory of a dialect spoken in English to determine which sounds "more intelligent"; meaning to say, which version of speech from a particular region of the world enunciates better and more exacting to the subtle and popular language of English. Who is to say that Afrikaaners are not best the English speakers present? Or perhaps any foreign national that is fluent in English sounds best because they took the effort and study to enunciate correctly enough to overcome language barriers that they make sure to pronounce every minute syllable and stressing?


We need some audible on the matter.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Willravel

It's just about a feeling. I personally feel that Brits sound more intelligent than us Yanks. I also think South Africans sound more intelligent than Americans. Then there's the hierarchy in the US. Newscaster, New England, Canadian, Midwestern/Minnesota, California/Dude, Cajun, Southern. Which just makes it confusing that our last two presidents (Gore and Clinton) both had southern accents. Do the Brits vote for Scotts or Cagnys?

Baraka_Guru

Oh, I thought you just used a Canadianism. Never mind.

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

stevie667

I belive i must bump this, for it is teh roxxorz truth speakz!111!!!111! lolzorz!"12!

You yanks bastardised English, mostly because your a bastard country, and we forgive you because you know no better, except when you say aluminum. Theres a f'ing I damnit, an I! Pronounce it...maybe thats just the chemist in me speaking

Its the chavs that really piss us off.

Edit: The scots don't speak English, we don't know exactly what they speak, but its not English

Edit #2: I speak smatterings of french, German, Arabic and English for all those that are concerned.

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Halifax

Three things:

1) The American pronunciation of aluminum, ("ah-LOO-min-um") is perfectly correct because we spell it differently. If we used the British spelling, "aluminium," we would indeed be silly for not pronouncing the second 'i,' but our version has only one. To-may-to/to-mah-to.
(http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/aluminium.htm)

2) Personally, I used to believe the British accent was more refined, but with all the time I have spent in Britain, I've heard about as many low, slang-filled, bastardized versions of it as of American English. There may be more "proper" speakers in Britain, (i.e. people who think punctuation and grammar are things which apply on a daily basis), but well-spoken British English is not inherently superior to well-spoken American English.

3) I feel blessed to be a Texan, born and raised, who somehow avoided picking up the accent. I think I speak just "normal," as far as American accents go, though I can turn on the "twang" when I need to.

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Philosopher-in-Training

“The present writer…writes because for him it is a luxury which becomes the more agreeable and more evident, the fewer there are who buy and read what he writes.”
—Søren Kierkegaard

Ratman

Hey, Stevie. Stick to chemistry. Before you go popping off on Americans dropping letters, lets look at the British pronunciation of such words as "hello". There's an f'ing H in it, pronounce it Dammit! Even the queen gets that one wrong. And then there's any word that ends with -ar, -er, -ir, -or, and -ur. These words have an R at the end, not an A. Hamburger, not hambahgah. Pronounce the R, dammit, it's not just for decoration. And lastly, words that end with A. Why do you insist on using an -er? The President of the United States of Americer. What a lovely ring that has.

I'm not saying one is better than the other, I hear both every day. I'm just sayin' this is one of those threads that is like winning the Special Olympics.

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Nimetic

Sadly for the US foreign relations... Our commercial TV networks play your cheaper US dramas/sitcoms/chat, and our government channel plays BBC.

So I when I hear the US accent, I'm usually expecting every second sentence to be "OMG".

Journeyman

Michael Caine uses English in a manner that sounds refined; English people don't. There's a Family Guy episode that hits my attitude on English people speaking English very well.

As far as Eddie Izzard discussing the dropping of the h in "herbs" in American English, see Ratman's post, as well as said Family Guy episode. "Ello, Ow are you? I'm aving a orrible time myself."

As far as bastardizing it goes, if I could "know better," I'd still speak any way different that I could. Whatever accent any English speaking country that's not England has, you don't really have anyone to blame but yourselves for putting that language there in the first place.

Maybe that's just the hangover speaking.

Toaster126

Anyone who makes judgments as to someone's intelligence from listening to an accent should probably look in the mirror and find someone else that needs judging.

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Daniel_

I am British.

In fact, I am English (there is a significant diference - like the difference between "an American" and "a Texan").

I have an educated, professional accent and vocabular.

I deplore laxity in language - I detest people who use "like" as a space filler, or as shorthand to mean "said". I loath the rising inflection that make everything sound like a question. Both of these come from the US.

I hate the dropping of the initial letter H in words - 'appy, 'ello, and (yes) 'erbs. Both versions of English do that.

Certain accents make the user sound stupid to many people - the Birmingham accent (that's Birming'am, England - not BirmingHam, Alabama), but then the deep southern accent (as used by Cletus the Yokel in The Simpsons) is just as bad.

An upper class Boston accent (Boston, Mass - not Boston, Lincolnshire) sounds educated to me - think Charles Emmerson Winchester III in M*A*S*H*.

Talking about "the American accent" is like talking about "the American weather" - it's not one thing, it's several.

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Charlatan

Talking about an English accent is just as splintered as the American.

For my money the Canadian accent is the most neutral (except for the Albertan or Maritime accents... those range from quaint to annoying).

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- Old Man Luedecke

Jetée

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

Taltos

I live in California. My friend once travelled out of the state and was complimented on his lack of an accent. It seems everywhere he went on this trip, he was regarded as not having an accent. This was odd, because he regarded some of their accents as fairly exotic. When we discussed it, we came to the conclusion that the rest of the country (world?) is more familiar with California-style english accents due to the prevalence of California actors on television and such. Without consciously realizing it, some people may be as familiar with California accents as their own.

This may partially explain any rise in popularity for American english. I don't know.

That's awesome.

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Ourcrazymodern?

English is extremely slippery no matter how you pronounce it.

Eh?

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fatboss

well I'm going to throw my hat into the ring.

I'm a Scouser, and a damn proud one at that. I speak with a scouse accent but I am always being accused of talking like a 'posh scouser', which tickles me as there's no such thing!

Could it be that alot of Americans perception of an english accent is muddied by the fact that in TV land whenever they need somebody slightly intelligent (Doctor, Surgeon CSI Pathologist) they drag out an English accent, and all too often a very bad one at that!

All I will add is that if we all spoke the same, it would be a pretty boring old world now wouldn't it?

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Baraka_Guru

Omigod, you must sound like the Beatles!

__________________
Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing?
—Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön

Humankind cannot bear very much reality.
—From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

Halifax

True, true. Ever notice that half the time in an American film, the "bad guys," especially "imperialistic" bad guys, are cast as Brits. Trust me on this one; just watch Star Wars.

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Philosopher-in-Training

“The present writer…writes because for him it is a luxury which becomes the more agreeable and more evident, the fewer there are who buy and read what he writes.”
—Søren Kierkegaard

Ratman

Obviously you have completely missed Hugh Laurie (a Brit) doing a pretty impressive American accent as Dr. Gregory House.

This is from the Fox TV Bios page for House, for those unfamiliar with Mr. Laurie:

Hugh Laurie
Dr. Gregory House

Known for possessing a keen eye for the complex characters he creates as an actor and a writer, Hugh Laurie currently brings that talent to his work on the critically acclaimed series HOUSE. His performance on the series has garnered him a Golden Globe Award for Best Performance by an Actor in a Television Series, an Emmy nomination for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Drama Series and a Screen Actors Guild Award nomination for Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Drama Series. He has been honored by the Television Critics Association with two TCA Awards for Individual Achievement in Drama the last two years.

Laurie previously starred in a number of groundbreaking British television comedy series, including four seasons of "A Bit of Fry and Laurie," which he co-wrote for the BBC with Stephen Fry; three seasons of "Blackadder," written by Richard Curtis and Ben Elton; and three seasons of "Saturday Live." In addition, four seasons of "Jeeves and Wooster," based on the novels of P.G. Wodehouse, aired on PBS's "Masterpiece Theatre" from 1990-1995.

On the big screen, Laurie was in the 20th Century Fox release "Flight of the Phoenix" opposite Dennis Quaid. Other film credits include "Peter's Friends," directed and co-starring Kenneth Branagh; "Sense and Sensibility" with Emma Thompson and Kate Winslet; "Cousin Bette" with Jessica Lange; "The Man in the Iron Mask"; "101 Dalmatians”; "Stuart Little"; and "Stuart Little 2" with Geena Davis.

On American television, Laurie portrayed Vincente Minnelli opposite Judy Davis in the network telefilm "Life with Judy Garland: Me and My Shadows." He also appeared in "Tracey Takes On …" and "Friends."

In addition to acting, Laurie has directed television programs and commercials, composed and recorded numerous original songs and written articles for London's The Daily Telegraph. Four volumes of "A Bit of Fry and Laurie" scripts have been published by Mandarin, and his first novel, "The Gun Seller," was published in both the UK and the U.S. to critical acclaim and has been adapted into a screenplay for MGM.

Laurie was educated at Eton and Cambridge University, where he took a degree in Anthropology. He also rowed in the University Boat Race of 1980. He was elected president of the venerable Footlights Revue, where he produced "The Cellar Tapes" along with Stephen Fry and Emma Thompson. The show won the Perrier Award at the Edinburgh Festival of 1981.


End Quote

I guess even when the British want someone refined and intelligent sounding, they choose a Brit for TV or movies!

Of course, there is the opposite tack as well. What can we make of Guy Ritchie's choice of Brad Pitt as the unintelligible gypsy in "Snatch". Was that a swipe at Americans? or Brits? Do the Brits (or Americans) actually use bad British accents to illustrate stupidity, or at least the sense of a less intelligent person?

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The difference between theory and reality is that in theory there is no difference.

"God made man, but he used the monkey to do it." DEVO

Nimetic

True enough. And of course... it depends on what the speaker says.

Cynthetiq

Watching a British schooled Singaporean was like watching an overdubbed movie. It was weird to see and hear Chinese people speaking like that in Singapore. They thought it to be more educated and refinded to speak like a Brit.

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