Kids these days... - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

filtherton · 07-13-2007, 05:50 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19735896/

Quote:

ATLANTA - A woman said she and her toddler son were kicked off a plane after she refused a flight attendant's request to medicate her son to get him to quiet down and stop saying "Bye bye, plane."

Kate Penland, of suburban Atlanta, said she and her 19-month-old son, Garren, were flying from Atlanta to Oklahoma last month on a Continental Express flight that made a stop in Houston.

As the plane was taxiing in Houston en route to Oklahoma, "he started saying 'Bye, bye plane,' Penland told WSB-TV in Atlanta. The flight attendant objected, she said.

"At the end of her speech, she leaned over the gentleman beside me and said, 'It's not funny anymore. You need to shut your baby up,'" Penland told WSB-TV in Atlanta.

When Penland asked the woman if she was joking, she said the stewardess replied, "You know, it's called baby Benadryl."

"And I said, 'Well, I'm not going to drug my child so you have a pleasant flight,'" Penland told the TV station.

Penland said other passengers began speaking up on her behalf, and the flight attendant announced they were turning around and that Penland and Garren were going to be taken off the plane.

Penland and her son were let off the plane and did not complete the trip to Oklahoma, said Kristy Nicholas, spokeswoman for Express Jet Airlines, which flies as Continental Express on behalf of Continental Airlines.

Attempts by the Associated Press to reach Penland under a telephone listing that matched her last name were unsuccessful.

"I was crying, I was upset and I was thinking, 'What am I going to do? I don't have anything with me, I don't have any more diapers for the baby, no juice, no milk," Penland told WSB.

Nicholas said, "We received Ms. Penland's letter expressing her concerns and intend to investigate its contents."

I don't know for sure, but i think that perhaps america has become a tad overly sensitive towards children. I could understand kicking a family off of a plane if the kid was screaming and the parent couldn't calm them down, but that doesn't really seem to be what was going on here.

What do you think? Have we reached a point where we're too sensitive about the existence of children? Where did the idea come from that we shouldn't have to deal with children acting like children in essentially public places? Would you have kicked this family off?

I wouldn't have.

I do know a lot of people who seem to steadfastly cling to the notion that children should be seen and not heard to the extent that when they see children behaving in perfectly normal ways they immediately attribute said behavior to a lack of parenting ability on the part of the parents. I guess that, as a parent, i have a difficult time finding sympathy for people who can't handle the ways in which children can be annoying.

It's not that i don't try to keep my kid well behaved, or that i won't leave a restaurant when the kid can't stop being noisy. It's just that if push came to shove i would choose letting my child behave in completely healthy and normal(though perhaps loud) ways over not annoying the fuck out of someone in a public place.

seretogis · 07-13-2007, 05:53 PM

i definitely would have booted them off if they refused to shut their kid up. The can find another flight on another airline.

filtherton · 07-13-2007, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seretogis

i definitely would have booted them off if they refused to shut their kid up. The can find another flight on another airline.

Why? What makes you think that it is necessarily always possible to shut a kid up in a reasonable way? It's not like the kid was yelling or even talking loudly, as far as we can tell at this point.

Is it just kids that should shut up, or would you kick off an adult for refusing to stop talking too?

maleficent · 07-13-2007, 07:41 PM

I'm not a fan of children, I don't think other people's children are all that cute... and behavior a parent often finds cute, I find irritating... (I've had my chair kicked once too many times - I've said many many times that they make dogs fly in cargo- they should have a nice little padded room for children to fly there as well - the kid would probably prefer it.)

but the flight attendent seemed to be more intolerant than I am (I've never been impressed with the serive on express jets -- so it doesn't suprise me)

We seem to be missing the part of the story where the mother tried to Shush her child - doesn't seem like she did - listening to a child say bye bye plane woud be really annoying... after about 20 seconds

I'd love to be able to kick off adults who talk too loudly on their cell phones... or better yet, drop them into the jet engine

noodlebee · 07-13-2007, 07:46 PM

I don't want to judge the people based on that story. I don't like how the story is shown. It seems to be too biased towards the mother and child. Did they interview the flight attendant? If so, why is it not inside the article?

ngdawg · 07-13-2007, 07:54 PM

I think the stewardess totally overreacted as the story is written. I don't like kids when they're running out of control or loud, but it's the parents' job to control that.
I've come across a couple of really annoying passengers, including one who had me choking for 20 minutes because of her perfumed hand creme. Guess I should have had her kicked off...

Willravel · 07-13-2007, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

Why?

I would guess selfishness, but it could just be that some people don't understand what it means to be a parent. In order to live in this world, we have to live with other people. You can't be picky about who's on the plane with you unless they have a bomb or are going to smoke or something.

Cynthetiq · 07-13-2007, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Mom Booted From Plane Goes National; Toddler Bucks, Whines During Interview

POSTED: 9:12 am EDT July 13, 2007
UPDATED: 4:25 pm EDT July 13, 2007

NEW YORK -- The Gwinnett County mother kicked off an airplane with her 19-month old son tried to tell her side of the story Friday morning, but her son's crying drowned out part of the interview.

SLIDESHOW: Booted Mom, Kid On GMA

Garren Penland, 19-months old, got so unruly during his mom's chat with 'Good Morning America' anchor Diane Sawyer, co-anchor Chris Cuomo had to take the toddler off the set.

While Kate Penland explained her child was well-behaved on the Continental Express flight, little Garren kicked, wiggled and squirmed out of his mother's arms.

At one point he climbed up on a coffee table and rifled through Sawyer's scripts.

When Sawyer handed him a model Space Shuttle to distract him, Garren rolled it off the table and onto the floor.

Kate Penland said she and Garren were booted from the flight last month by a flight attendant who suggested she use benadryl to calm her son down.

Yeah, I don't want to deal with your crappy kid. I didn't have kids for a reason, and if your kid can't sit still, be quiet, or behave, you should LEAVE. I'm tired of parents who think their kids shit smells like Chanel No. 5. I don't care, keep that little tyke away from me.

Here look at the stills of the video and decide for yourself if the mother can control the kid.

My aunt has had this sign on her restaurant forever. It's a simple request.

The other morning a young kid of 5 kept kicking Skogafoss in the shins as he sat on the subway. The mother kept telling him to stop but he didn't. She moved him to switch seats and he just kicked the girl standing next to Skogafoss. She kept smiling politely sorry. I'm sure she is horrified at her son, but to just keep telling him to stop it instead of walloping him a good one or something more than just "stop it now."

ngdawg · 07-13-2007, 08:42 PM

Problem is, at 19 months old, they don't know the consequences of sitting still, at least not for any length of time. She shouldn't have brought him to the show; all that did is boost the other side.
There are ways to keep a kid occupied so that he appears well behaved; the other side of the coin is exerting some measure of control very very early on so that you don't end up with a brat. We have been in restaurants with our toddlers and actually had people remark to us that they didn't know there were young children at the table behind them. People are too freakin afraid of hurting Jr.s' feelings or damaging some false idea of 'self esteem'.

ubertuber · 07-13-2007, 09:18 PM

Honestly I'd feel more inconvenienced by the plane turning around, and thus arriving at my destination late, than by a noisy child.

I bring earplugs on planes because you just can't count on anyone, parents or no, to be considerate.

analog · 07-13-2007, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ngdawg

Problem is, at 19 months old, they don't know the consequences of sitting still, at least not for any length of time. She shouldn't have brought him to the show; all that did is boost the other side.

Boost the other side, or prove that her kid is as unruly as the original story seems to dictate? I agree the stewardess was wrong in telling the woman to give Benadryl to her kid, the way that she told her, but based on the kid's behavior on a few scant minutes of television, I can't imagine how much better that little shit behaved himself in a confined space for a much longer period of time.

jorgelito · 07-13-2007, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Yeah, I don't want to deal with your crappy kid. I didn't have kids for a reason, and if your kid can't sit still, be quiet, or behave, you should LEAVE. I'm tired of parents who think their kids shit smells like Chanel No. 5. I don't care, keep that little tyke away from me.

Here look at the stills of the video and decide for yourself if the mother can control the kid.

My aunt has had this sign on her restaurant forever. It's a simple request.

The other morning a young kid of 5 kept kicking Skogafoss in the shins as he sat on the subway. The mother kept telling him to stop but he didn't. She moved him to switch seats and he just kicked the girl standing next to Skogafoss. She kept smiling politely sorry. I'm sure she is horrified at her son, but to just keep telling him to stop it instead of walloping him a good one or something more than just "stop it now."

Thanks for posting this Cyn, now we have a bit more of a complete picture. It is quite possible, even likely that the child removal was justified. Could you imagine a kid like that behaving that way while you were trying to drive a car?

Willravel · 07-13-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

Is her restaurant inside a giant brain? It looks like the sign is on a giant brain.

shakran · 07-13-2007, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by willravel

I would guess selfishness, but it could just be that some people don't understand what it means to be a parent. In order to live in this world, we have to live with other people. You can't be picky about who's on the plane with you unless they have a bomb or are going to smoke or something.

Well I understand what it means to be a parent. My kid behaved himself on airplanes at that age because he was taught that behaving yourself is the proper thing to do on an airplane. But then my wife and I are what you would call hands on parents. We didn't dump him in daycare, we didn't plunk him in front of the TV, or the computer. We interacted with our kid and *raised* him. (well .. still raising him, but we're long past the age when being a jackass on an airplane is a potential problem.)

I'm very happy for you if you have children. That's a wonderful thing and it's a huge sacrifice you've made in order to bring them into this world. But you do not have the right to inflict them on other people. If they're being hellions in a restaurant, or a theater, you remove them. Obviously that's difficult on an airplane, but kids generally do only what they're sure they can get away with. My kid KNEW his world would crash around him if he acted like a dick on a plane, so he didn't do it.

Now, all that said, it's impossible to really tell what the kid was doing. Was he quietly muttering "byebye plane" in which case he was being a kid, and the stew needs to be shot, or was he screaming it at the top of his lungs while constantly kicking the chair in front of him in which case he and his mom need to be kicked off, and his mom needs to be tossed into the jet engine

It could have been either of those extremes, or anywhere in between. based on that, it's difficult to judge this case.

Cynthetiq · 07-13-2007, 10:23 PM

nah happens to be the paint texture and lighting...

Willravel · 07-13-2007, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

Well I understand what it means to be a parent. My kid behaved himself on airplanes at that age because he was taught that behaving yourself is the proper thing to do on an airplane. But then my wife and I are what you would call hands on parents. We didn't dump him in daycare, we didn't plunk him in front of the TV, or the computer. We interacted with our kid and *raised* him. (well .. still raising him, but we're long past the age when being a jackass on an airplane is a potential problem.)

I'm very happy for you if you have children. That's a wonderful thing and it's a huge sacrifice you've made in order to bring them into this world. But you do not have the right to inflict them on other people. If they're being hellions in a restaurant, or a theater, you remove them. Obviously that's difficult on an airplane, but kids generally do only what they're sure they can get away with. My kid KNEW his world would crash around him if he acted like a dick on a plane, so he didn't do it.

I do understand what you're saying, but being in a plane is a lot different than being in a restaurant. When they turned the plane around, that was way too far. The kid was just repeating a sentence. He wasn't screaming, crying, crapping, etc. I think the people on that plane, especially that snarky flight attendant (I would have had to been a human shield had this happened with our family; my wife would have killed her on the spot) could have been more understanding. I get that some people don't like, or even hate kids. Some of them smell funny. They don't follow social norms because they haven't developed the necessary maturity yet. Still, people put up with people who've used too much after-shave, with fat people in spandex, etc. I would classify this under much the same thing: the planet doesn't belong to one person, so you have to learn to reasonably live with the existence of others be they good to have around or not.

tenniels · 07-13-2007, 11:01 PM

When I am on a plane or in a restaurant or anywhere else where I am paying to be there, I expect not to have a child ruining my time. I know this is not the child's fault, but I still shouldn't have to put up with it. A lot of kids would behave in the situation and the ones that can't should not be allowed to ruin the flight (or meal etc) of other paying patrons. I like kids, don't really want any of my own at this point, but I do expect that parents should be in control (not in an evil mean way) of their kids. I wouldn't have gotten away with that stuff as a kid, and if I were to be acting like that and not behaving I would be removed from the situation (by my parents). I do agree that in a lot of ways society has become overly sensitive towards children. I hate parents that because parenting is so much work (which it is and I respect beyond what I can express) everyone else owes them something. There is a reason I don't have children. When I do, that is what I will devote my life to in every way and I'm at this point not willing to do that. I'm off on a tangent here, but I don't think it's such a big deal that they were asked to get off the plane. It is great when people have kids, but it should be respected that they should not be imposed on other people.

Willravel · 07-13-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

nah happens to be the paint texture and lighting...

Is it wrong that I'm disappointed?

Cynthetiq · 07-14-2007, 03:32 AM

I'm trying to find video of the child on GMA to see for myself then I came across this from earlier in the year, of a 3 year old.

Quote:

Crying Child and Parents Removed From Flight
AirTran Ejected 3-Year-Old and Her Parents After Tantrum
Jan. 23, 2007 —

Every parent has dealt with a child having a tantrum and causing embarrassment at the worst times -- in a grocery store, in a restaurant, and at weddings.

For a Massachusetts mom and dad, however, their toddler's tantrum cost them their flight home.

On Jan. 14, 3-year-old Elly Kulesza and her parents, Julie and Gerald, were kicked off an AirTran Airways flight from Florida to their Worcester, Mass., home because Elly would not stop crying.

Elly, who had been a model passenger on the flight to Florida four days earlier, began to cry uncontrollably once she got on the plane, throwing a temper tantrum on the floor.

AirTran employees demanded that the Kuleszas calm down their child. When Elly didn't stop crying, the crew banned the Kuleszas from flying for 24 hours. Later, AirTran offered an apology to the family along with a refund on their tickets.

"As we have an obligation to the 112 other passengers onboard the flight to operate the flight on time," AirTran said in a statement, "we had to make an operational decision to ask the Kulesza party to deplane so the flight could depart."

Passengers Sympathetic, Unlike Crew, Parents Say
On "Good Morning America," the Kuleszas insisted that their toddler wasn't doing anything out of the ordinary.

"I don't know what happened. No one can tell when something like this is going to happen. She had a great morning, but then she got on the plane and she started to cry," Julie Kulesza said.

"She's like the typical 3-year-old. She has her moments, but overall she's a very, very good child."

The Kuleszas said that unlike the AirTran crew, the passengers on the flight were sympathetic to their situation.

"I jokingly turned around and asked the three gentlemen behind me, 'Aren't you glad you got these seats?" Julie said. "Another passenger offered up a lollipop to try and calm her down."

Despite AirTran's apology and offer of a complimentary flight, the Kuleszas don't plan to fly with the airline anytime soon.

"We'll pass on that," Gerald Kulesza said. "After that, I told them I'd never fly with them again."

Tips for Tempering Tantrums
While not every toddler tantrum makes headlines, many parents want to know how they can cope with them.

"Good Morning America" parenting contributor Anne Pleshette Murphy offered tips on how to calm a crying child.

Focus on Your Child

When in public, every parent's mantra should be this: "I don't know any of these people, and I'm never going to see them again." Just focus on your child, not on the other people around you who are giving you dirty looks. Your goal is to be your child's advocate, to be there for your child.

Don't Scream, Don't Threaten

Screaming at and threatening your child is a bad idea. Do the opposite. Your child is out of control, and the point is to try to help them physically collect themselves.

Hold the Child on Your Lap and Talk Softly

This strategy is very simple but can be very effective. Put the child on your lap, hold him or her tightly, and talk very softly. You should say you understand that they're upset and really sound as if you mean it. You can go on talking about almost anything, as long as you're speaking in a soft, soothing voice. If your child is really thrashing about, you're going to have to restrain him or her. Often, however, this technique of holding and talking softly will calm a child down in a few minutes.

Try to Distract Child

Another way to diffuse tantrums is to distract the child. Come armed with a toy they've never seen, a familiar object like a security blanket, or a candy to suck on. But frankly, when a child is out of control, this may not work.

Screaming? Tantrum?

Quote:

"She's like the typical 3-year-old. She has her moments, but overall she's a very, very good child."

I don't need to be subject to her "moments."

I don't frequent family friendly establishments and I see the difference in my life. In fact there was a period in my life where I can actually say I didn't ever see any children past those that got wheeled about in a stroller down the street. Other than that I saw no kids.

When I hang out at bars which is for over 21, and a parent brings in their toddler in tow. You are infringing upon me. I don't care if your little angel is acting like one. I don't want to be around children. I don't want to have to "watch what I say" because some kid might overhear it and copy it.

If there were airlines that had a no children policy for certain flights. I would fly it, I would be paying extra for that guarantee.

found the video

http://www.wsbtv.com/video/13675551/index.html

Kid was pretty unruly and the polite thank you he said was cute, but if he said it over and over and over, not so cute.

Demeter · 07-14-2007, 03:50 AM

My son would have gotten me kicked off of many flights. Although I never had trouble taking my daughter out in public and having her act anything other than exemplary, my son was another story. Many a time I left restaurants or stores because of his behavior. Nothing I ever did stopped his outbursts, but I at least had consideration for the others around me. If my own child's actions annoyed me as his parent, I could see how others would find his behavior abhorrent.

If I had been kicked off a plane thusly, I would have been embarrassed and apologetic, not indignant.

Charlatan · 07-14-2007, 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakran

We didn't dump him in daycare...

I don't like what you are suggesting here. It has *nothing* to do with daycare and everything to do with being a parent.

warrrreagl · 07-14-2007, 06:16 AM

*warrrreagl just walks by this thread whistling*

fresnelly · 07-14-2007, 06:31 AM

Our 2.5 year old son has been on a number of flights already and mostly he's been great, but it can be a struggle.

If he's really fussy I'll walk him up and down the aisle a few times, taking care not to let him grab or interfere with the sitting passengers. Most of them either look at me with good cheer or sympathy and a glare of disapproval is rare. What do you think of this technique?

JustJess · 07-14-2007, 09:17 AM

Okay... in a restaurant or movie (just last night I rolled my eyes at a fussy kid at a 10p movie), yeah, you can remove your kid, do whatever you have to do. It's usually less than $50 bucks, and usually there's some room to adjust.

But she was on a PLANE on her way to go somewhere... had paid at least a hundred bucks or so. If the plane is taxi-ing, he's only been on there a few minutes. What a judgment call that stewardess made... wow. 10 minutes and she's decided she knows best? What a cunt. I would have had to restrain myself from slapping her upside the head. I think certain situations need a little more understanding. A little more patience.

Do I want a screaming kid on my flight? Of course not. Neither does the parent, I'm sure. If they could get the kid to shut up, I'm sure they would. Are they an incompetent parent? Possibly, yeah. But the guy in seat 4C with too much cologne on who's making the whole plane smell is a jerk too. So is the idiot talking to someone sitting 5 seats away. Oh, and the 20-somethings in the back who keep going up the aisle and bumping into me. Let's not forget the cart pushers who try to take out anything that's not inside your seat by 5 inches.

People are assholes. Kids are just better at being one than adults. If it were a movie theater, kick 'em out. But a plane has cost too much and involved too much in terms of time, etc.

Just so you know... chances are, you who "don't want to have to put up with someone else's kid" and all that... someone doesn't want to have to put up with you, either.

Cynthetiq · 07-14-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

Wow. I'm so about to get modded... but what a bunch of selfish pricks you all are, with the "I shouldn't have to put up with someone else's kid" thing.

Okay... in a restaurant or movie (just last night I rolled my eyes at a fussy kid at a 10p movie), yeah, you can remove your kid, do whatever you have to do. It's usually less than $50 bucks, and usually there's some room to adjust.

But she was on a PLANE on her way to go somewhere... had paid at least a hundred bucks or so. If the plane is taxi-ing, he's only been on there a few minutes. What a judgment call that stewardess made... wow. 10 minutes and she's decided she knows best? What a cunt. I would have had to restrain myself from slapping her upside the head. I think certain situations need a little more understanding. A little more patience.

Do I want a screaming kid on my flight? Of course not. Neither does the parent, I'm sure. If they could get the kid to shut up, I'm sure they would. Are they an incompetent parent? Possibly, yeah. But the guy in seat 4C with too much cologne on who's making the whole plane smell is a jerk too. So is the idiot talking to someone sitting 5 seats away. Oh, and the 20-somethings in the back who keep going up the aisle and bumping into me. Let's not forget the cart pushers who try to take out anything that's not inside your seat by 5 inches.

People are assholes. Kids are just better at being one than adults. If it were a movie theater, kick 'em out. But a plane has cost too much and involved too much in terms of time, etc.

Just so you know... chances are, you whwo "don't want to have to put up with someone else's kid" and all that... someone doesn't want to have to put up with you, either.

But you are willing to put up with it. I'm stating that I am willing to pay extra to NOT have to put up with it.

I have not stated that I wanted her to be removed. I don't know enough of the situation since it is highly subjective and again, most parents think their darlings are just that and cannot be little shits or that the shitty things that they are doing are cute and endearing. We also don't know if some passanger complained as well.

I don't like when my nephews who are 4 and 3 are acting up. I leave if my sister doesn't remove them from the area. The discomfort that a crying child brings to bear for me is unbearable for numerous reasons. I don't want to be subject to it and should not have to be if possible.

I'm willing to pay extra to go to a restaurant that says, "No Children" on the door and enforces it.

I'm willing to pay extra to be in an airplane that doesn't cater to those under 14.

I'm willing to pay extra for a movie ticket to not have a child crying in the middle of the movie.

To that end, I'd even be willing to join a club that has a set of rules that are enforced, that encompass poor behavior like the cologne, person sitting 10 yards away and being boistrous, and those other "asshole" behavoirs you listed.

Consider this place, TFP is a "club" we don't allow trollish behavoirs and we don't allow children. Yes. I'd pay extra to be in a place in the real world like this.

JustJess · 07-14-2007, 10:35 AM

Not that you were the only one I was giving a hard time to, but okay... here:
1. Yeah, if the business is choosing to cater to a particular audience ala your aunt's restaurant, more power to them. But the airline doesn't have this as part of their business model. So it's wrong, to me.

2. I doubt very much that kids that are acting up are cute to their parents, either. I also don't consider "bye bye plane" to be acting up, if probably annoying.

I just get fed up with people and their "only MY wants/needs/desires matter! MINE MINE MINE!" That goes for parents that keep screaming kids in public places and people who want normal-level noisy kids kept away from any possible interaction with them.

filtherton · 07-14-2007, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustJess

1. Yeah, if the business is choosing to cater to a particular audience ala your aunt's restaurant, more power to them. But the airline doesn't have this as part of their business model. So it's wrong, to me.

2. I doubt very much that kids that are acting up are cute to their parents, either. I also don't consider "bye bye plane" to be acting up, if probably annoying.

I just get fed up with people and their "only MY wants/needs/desires matter! MINE MINE MINE!" That goes for parents that keep screaming kids in public places and people who want normal-level noisy kids kept away from any possible interaction with them.

I just want to say that i agree with these points.

I don't necessarily have a problem with businesses that exclude children.

I do try to keep my kid from being disruptive, and if it is reasonable to do so i tend to remove my kid from the area if she can't chill out. That being said, if you're the type who can't handle being in the same area as a whiny kid, then you and the whiny kid have a lot in common. The kid has a valid excuse for acting like a baby, what's yours?

stevie667 · 07-14-2007, 11:31 AM

Meh, its not kicking the people off the flight that irritates me, planes need quiet imo.

Telling someone to drug their child, thats a huge no-no in my book, which definatly merits throwing a fuss about.

Cynthetiq · 07-14-2007, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

I just want to say that i agree with these points.

I don't necessarily have a problem with businesses that exclude children.

I do try to keep my kid from being disruptive, and if it is reasonable to do so i tend to remove my kid from the area if she can't chill out. That being said, if you're the type who can't handle being in the same area as a whiny kid, then you and the whiny kid have a lot in common. The kid has a valid excuse for acting like a baby, what's yours?

Jaded.

Unfrotunately parents have proven time and time again that they will not even do what you consider reasonable. Parents cannot be spoken to or reasoned with at all especially if it's their entitled "right" to be there with their children at the movies, or the restaurant regardless of their behavior. If I were to politely suggest they leave or address their child's behavior, they get indignant.

It is unfortunate and as such, I decided that it is easier to avoid the situations as close to 100% as possible.

xepherys · 07-14-2007, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warrrreagl

*warrrreagl just walks by this thread whistling*

Haha, as I was reading down I was waiting for your response :-p

Anyways, I also think turning the plane around is a bit of an overreaction. Let's view the situation differently. What if, instead of a child, it was an adult with a severe mental impairment? What if a teenager with Downs was repeating a sentence over and over? It's still public transportation. They still have just as much right to a seat on the plane as the guy in the suit who just snores his way through the flight. What if it WAS a guy snoring? That's annoying too! What about the fat dude who damned near takes up two seats? What about a bitchy adult that is very demanding of her stewardess? I don't think I've EVER flown and had a flight that didn't have some annoying aspect to it. But it's public friggin' transportation. One doesn't generally expect more in a bus or a subway.

At any rate, I think people are becoming more ignorant and more intolerant all at the same time, and both are bad on their own, let along in unison. A kid kicking your seat? Sure, that might be a bit more of an issue. A kid talking, or as warrrreagl had been upset about in another child-related thread, a kid staring at you? Didn't your parents ever give you the "sticks and stones" speech? *sigh*

lurkette · 07-14-2007, 01:46 PM

Let's be democratic. Why not put little voting machines on planes, kind of like the ones on "America's Funniest Home Videos" and let the passengers decide whether to boot the kid off? If enough people are annoyed, off they go. It leaves the decision up to the people most affected - fellow passengers.

I'm only sort of kidding.

On the one hand, flying is not a right. You're paying for a service provided by a private company who can do pretty much whatever they want, within reason. As long as they refund you the cost of the ticket, they can refuse you service. If you can't control your kid (and granted, a 19-month-old is pretty hard to "control") you probably shouldn't be flying. There are lots of things that you have to do without your kids, or wait to do till your kid is older. Maybe this is just one of them for people who have wild children.

On the other hand, the kid wasn't a safety hazard, to himself or others. I can see kicking off the kid who just wouldn't be seated. Everyone has to be seated for takeoff; them's the rules. This kid was just annoying. And there are lots of things on flights that are annoying, from the crowded conditions to not being able to recline your seat, to having the guy in front of you try to recline his seat anyhow and crush your knees, etc. I don't quite see how a loud kid is such a different class of annoyance that they should be barred from a flight. Unless the flight attendant can make a pretty compelling argument that this kid was interfering with her ability to do her job and keep the other passengers safe, this seems like a bit of an overreaction.

filtherton · 07-14-2007, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cynthetiq

jaded.

Unfrotunately parents have proven time and time again that they will not even do what you consider reasonable. Parents cannot be spoken to or reasoned with at all especially if it's their entitled "right" to be there with their children at the movies, or the restaurant regardless of their behavior. If I were to politely suggest they leave or address their child's behavior, they get indignant.

It is unfortunate and as such, I decided that it is easier to avoid the situations as close to 100% as possible.

So what if they get indignant? People are assholes, it isn't just parents. It seems like maybe you had a bad experience or two and then just decided that all parents are unreasonable assholes and that all children are incapable of behaving.

Really, i understand that kids can be annoying sometimes, it's just that your criticism seems rather arbitrary. Many of them could be as accurately leveled at drunk people, but i imagine you're more willing to accept their behavior, or at the very least, not avoid places where you might come into contact with them.

But you know, before i had a kid, i could have really cared less about them. I was certainly more prone to being annoyed by them then to cut them some slack.

Cynthetiq · 07-14-2007, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filtherton

So what if they get indignant? People are assholes, it isn't just parents. It seems like maybe you had a bad experience or two and then just decided that all parents are unreasonable assholes and that all children are incapable of behaving.

Really, i understand that kids can be annoying sometimes, it's just that your criticism seems rather arbitrary. Many of them could be as accurately leveled at drunk people, but i imagine you're more willing to accept their behavior, or at the very least, not avoid places where you might come into contact with them.

But you know, before i had a kid, i could have really cared less about them. I was certainly more prone to being annoyed by them then to cut them some slack.

No, even in my drinking days, I didn't tolerate moronic drunks. I left the bar before all the "amateur" drinkers came in. It also meant I did not go to bars late on Friday and Saturday, St. Patrick's day, Cinco de Mayo, New Year's Eve, etc. because you are right, assholes abound.

There is no such thing as embarassment or shame any longer. No one is ashamed of anything. DUI, jail, whatever, no one cares anymore. I believe it is because we tolerate and allow it. I don't want to have to tolerate people's bad behavoir. I already have to tolerate my fair share of the assholea people on the bus and the subway, the sidewalks of NYC. I worked in Times Square for close to 11 years. I'm plum out of patience for moronics.

Jetée · 07-14-2007, 11:35 PM

I had a couple of comments to make, but I would only be re-iterating the thoughts posted by willravel and the responses made by filtherton;
so, instead, here for you is a little mood-settling:

TotalMILF · 07-15-2007, 01:33 PM

Another account of the story, this time with comments from passengers (from http://www.wusa9.com/news/news_artic...?storyid=60738)

Quote:

GWINNETT CO., Ga. (WXIA) -- A Gwinnett County woman wants an apology from Continental's Express Jet Airlines for kicking her and her toddler off of the plane -- all because, she said, a flight attendant wanted the woman's son to stop talking.

"I was embarrassed, shocked, upset," the mom, Kate Penland, told 11Alive News at her home on Thursday. "I was just, words cannot express, you know, I was already tired, I couldn't believe what was happening."

Penland and her 20-month-old son, Garren, were on their way from Atlanta to Oklahoma City on June 16 to visit Penland's father for Father's Day. Weather delays forced them to sit in Houston's airport for 11 hours.

When the flight finally left the gate late that Saturday night, Penland said Garren was talking about it, happily, along with all the adults on board.

"He's saying, 'Bye, bye, airplane' to the plane out the window. And that's what he was doing, he wasn't screaming or throwing a fit, just, 'Bye, Bye, airplane.'"

Penland said a flight attendant told her to get Garren to stop talking.

Immediately.

"She leaned over the gentleman beside me and, ah, said, 'Okay, it's not funny anymore, you need to shut your baby up.' And, you know, my first reaction was she had to be kidding. So, I asked her, you know, 'Are you kidding?' And she said, no, she was tired, she'd been stranded at the airport all day, and she did not want to hear it."

Penland said she replied that Garren would probably be asleep by the time the plane lifted off.

"I said, 'Well, he's been here at the airport for eleven hours, stuck in a stroller, you know, you should be lucky he's not screaming his head off.' And she said, 'Well, it's called Baby Benedryl.' [She made] just a little, you know, drinking motion, and I thought she's got to be kidding me. And I told her, 'I'm not going to drug my baby so that you'll have a pleasant flight.'"

Penland said the plane was small and other passengers could see and hear her and the flight attendant clearly. Penland said the passengers began speaking up for her, telling the flight attendant they were not disturbed by Garren's talking and that the flight to Oklahoma City from Houston was only one hour, anyway.

"It was ludicrous," one of the passengers, Stacey Watts, told 11Alive News on Thursday, from her home near Oklahoma City. "I even heard somebody from the back of the plane call out there, 'You telling me there's a switch on kids all these years?'"

Watts was in Row 6, just behind Penland and her son who were in Row 3.

Penland said the flight attendant then addressed all the passengers.

"She put her hand on her hip and informed everyone that it was her plane and she was not going to listen to it. And she then went to the flight attendant station, was there for a few minutes, came back and informed the cabin that we were turning around. And she looked at me and said, 'You and your baby are getting off the plane.' And we did, we turned around and security came and escorted my child and me off the plane."

Penland was not charged with any crime.

Penland had only her carry-on, with the few diapers and other baby items she had taken for the short flight. Her luggage went on to Oklahoma City. She said Express Jet paid for a room for her and Garren for the night, and she and Garren flew to Oklahoma City the next morning.

She said she was talking with a representative of Express Jet just after being escorted off of the plane. "I was in tears," Penland said. She said the airline representative told her, "The reason I was removed from the plane was because the flight attendant told the captain I had threatened her. And that was the reason I was removed, not because of the baby ... I told her that I did not threaten that woman, and I had a plane full of witnesses."

"I heard nothing from Katie to indicate there was any type of a threat," Watts said. "I never heard any of that."

A spokeswoman for Express Jet Airlines told 11Alive News that due to potential litigation over the incident, the company would have no comment other than this statement: "We received Ms. Penland's letter expressing her concerns and intend to investigate its contents."

Penland said she and her husband are thinking about filing a lawsuit. Mostly, she said, they just want an apology.

"You know, with all the heightened security alerts at the airports, you would think turning a plane around would be for something important, not, you know, a flight attendant that was irritated."

The flight attendant was a piece of shit. As the mother of a 19-month-old son I have to say that, had I been in this situation, they would've definitely had to turn the plane around because I would've beaten the flight attendant into a bloody pulp. The kid wasn't crying, wasn't hitting anybody, wasn't screaming, wasn't running up and down the aisle... he was talking. OMG, a toddler talking? HOW UNUSUAL AND HORRIFYING!! AHHHH!!!

Also, there had already been an 11-hour delay for that flight. Those of you with toddlers know that no matter how wonderful your parenting is, a tired and bored toddler is often inconsolable. The flight attendant was so obsessed with herself that she was willing to further delay the flight just so she didn't have to listen to a kid say "Bye bye airplane." Yeah, I would've killed her.

sprocket · 07-15-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevie667

Meh, its not kicking the people off the flight that irritates me, planes need quiet imo.

Telling someone to drug their child, thats a huge no-no in my book, which definatly merits throwing a fuss about.

I think the flight attendant was in the right here. I mean cmon... She wasnt asking the mother to cook up some heroin and stick the baby with a needle. She was talking about benedryl. I would hardly call that drugging the baby.

Well after reading that last article, it looks like the flight attendant may have been in the wrong, IMHO. Hard to tell from any of the stories, you dont really know what to think.

Cynthetiq · 07-15-2007, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sprocket

I think the flight attendant was in the right here. I mean cmon... She wasnt asking the mother to cook up some heroin and stick the baby with a needle. She was talking about benedryl. I would hardly call that drugging the baby.

Well after reading that last article, it looks like the flight attendant may have been in the wrong, IMHO. Hard to tell from any of the stories, you dont really know what to think.

Agreed. It is hard to tell. I will only go by what the mother stated in the GMA interview where at around 1:00 of the interview I posted she states the was as fussy as he was at that point in the interview.

TotalMilf, to be honest, maybe the child isn't annoying directly (again, I refer to the child in the GMA interview, cute when he says "Thank You" but say it over and over, not so cute) but to also hear the parent say over and over, "Stop that." or whatever they decide they are saying as corrective action is equally unpleasant to hear over and over and over. Now I'm no longer hearing one person being annoying, but now it is doubled to two.

Charlatan · 07-15-2007, 05:03 PM

From the description in the story it sounds like the flight attendant was a total bitch. I have no idea how close to real events this was but as written I would have been pissed with her as well.

Yes, there are many parents who don't have a clue how to discipline their children. There are also kids who are good, that just don't travel well.

Until they offer flights that are child-free or child only... the answer to all you gripers is to suck it up.

On one hand parents have a responsibility to manage their children properly. On the other, people need to be more tolerant when kids are distressed (note I didn't say misbehaving).

analog · 07-15-2007, 08:09 PM

1. I'd just like to mention that it's very common for people to be prescribed medicines for sedative purposes during travel, including young children- most notably those with ADHD or known hyperactivity/anxiety disorders. These can include valium, and are most commonly Benadryl when used for children.

It's a fairly common practice. I really don't think it's fair to freak out over "drugging her child".

I don't, however, agree with the stewardess' suggestion to the woman to do such a thing. It's inappropriate, and she has no authority to advise a person on taking medicines, let alone a child. Also, it's just a bitch move to tell someone to give their child something. She handled the situation in practically every bad way possible.

2. For some people, the simple act of a child saying the same thing over and over to infinity can be just as annoying as kicking/screaming/tantrum, given enough repetition. It's not fair to tell people what is and is not annoying to them. You can't say "no this isn't annoying to you because I say so". You may find it ok, or bearable, but that doesn't mean other people are assholes, insensitive, impatient, etc., just because they don't have the same high threshold for kiddie bullshit that you do.

I find country music completely unbearable to listen to. If it's on, I am heading in another direction to get away from it. It drives me up the wall. I'm sure many of those who would balk at the annoying habits of a child have your own pet peeves as well. Maybe you hate pop music, or classic rock, or maybe you hate a certain band. They're all pet peeves, people, and they're all things we just don't like to hear. Just because it's a child doesn't make it ok. For some people, their pet peeve is any noise coming out of any child. And you know what? You need to respect that everyone's pet peeves are different, and some people just cannot stand to hear certain things.

Nisses · 07-16-2007, 12:13 AM

Somehow the stewardess comes off a bit too much as a self-centered power-hungry ego-tripping bitch. And there doesn't seem to be a statement of the airline or the stewardess herself, only the mother's side.

I do suspect the stewardess was the first to make a bad move. However, I think both parties handled it very poorly from there on.

And TotalMILF: I hope I never get on a plane with you

If the toddler is so very tired and inconsolable after 11h, you should look into ways to get him to sleep imho, for his sake, his mother's sake, and right behind for everybody else on the plane.

07-13-2007, 05:53 PM	#2 (permalink)
seretogis Huggles, sir? Location: Seattle	i definitely would have booted them off if they refused to shut their kid up. The can find another flight on another airline. __________________ seretogis - sieg heil perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames

07-13-2007, 07:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
maleficent Junkie Moderator Emeritus Location: Chicago	I'm not a fan of children, I don't think other people's children are all that cute... and behavior a parent often finds cute, I find irritating... (I've had my chair kicked once too many times - I've said many many times that they make dogs fly in cargo- they should have a nice little padded room for children to fly there as well - the kid would probably prefer it.) but the flight attendent seemed to be more intolerant than I am (I've never been impressed with the serive on express jets -- so it doesn't suprise me) We seem to be missing the part of the story where the mother tried to Shush her child - doesn't seem like she did - listening to a child say bye bye plane woud be really annoying... after about 20 seconds I'd love to be able to kick off adults who talk too loudly on their cell phones... or better yet, drop them into the jet engine __________________ Free your heart from hatred. Free your mind from worries. Live simply. Give more. Expect less.

07-13-2007, 07:54 PM	#6 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	I think the stewardess totally overreacted as the story is written. I don't like kids when they're running out of control or loud, but it's the parents' job to control that. I've come across a couple of really annoying passengers, including one who had me choking for 20 minutes because of her perfumed hand creme. Guess I should have had her kicked off... __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-13-2007, 08:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
ngdawg peekaboo Location: on the back, bitch	Problem is, at 19 months old, they don't know the consequences of sitting still, at least not for any length of time. She shouldn't have brought him to the show; all that did is boost the other side. There are ways to keep a kid occupied so that he appears well behaved; the other side of the coin is exerting some measure of control very very early on so that you don't end up with a brat. We have been in restaurants with our toddlers and actually had people remark to us that they didn't know there were young children at the table behind them. People are too freakin afraid of hurting Jr.s' feelings or damaging some false idea of 'self esteem'. __________________ Don't blame me. I didn't vote for either of'em.

07-13-2007, 09:18 PM	#10 (permalink)
ubertuber spudly Location: Ellay	Honestly I'd feel more inconvenienced by the plane turning around, and thus arriving at my destination late, than by a noisy child. I bring earplugs on planes because you just can't count on anyone, parents or no, to be considerate. __________________ Cogito ergo spud -- I think, therefore I yam

07-13-2007, 07:46 PM	#5 (permalink)
noodlebee Crazy Location: Canada	I don't want to judge the people based on that story. I don't like how the story is shown. It seems to be too biased towards the mother and child. Did they interview the flight attendant? If so, why is it not inside the article?

07-13-2007, 10:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
Cynthetiq Tilted Cat Head Administrator Location: Manhattan, NY	nah happens to be the paint texture and lighting... __________________ I don't care if you are black, white, purple, green, Chinese, Japanese, Korean, hippie, cop, bum, admin, user, English, Irish, French, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Buddhist, Muslim, indian, cowboy, tall, short, fat, skinny, emo, punk, mod, rocker, straight, gay, lesbian, jock, nerd, geek, Democrat, Republican, Libertarian, Independent, driver, pedestrian, or bicyclist, either you're an asshole or you're not. What's the best nation in the world? DO-NATION!

07-13-2007, 11:01 PM	#17 (permalink)
tenniels Insane Location: Oh Canada!!	When I am on a plane or in a restaurant or anywhere else where I am paying to be there, I expect not to have a child ruining my time. I know this is not the child's fault, but I still shouldn't have to put up with it. A lot of kids would behave in the situation and the ones that can't should not be allowed to ruin the flight (or meal etc) of other paying patrons. I like kids, don't really want any of my own at this point, but I do expect that parents should be in control (not in an evil mean way) of their kids. I wouldn't have gotten away with that stuff as a kid, and if I were to be acting like that and not behaving I would be removed from the situation (by my parents). I do agree that in a lot of ways society has become overly sensitive towards children. I hate parents that because parenting is so much work (which it is and I respect beyond what I can express) everyone else owes them something. There is a reason I don't have children. When I do, that is what I will devote my life to in every way and I'm at this point not willing to do that. I'm off on a tangent here, but I don't think it's such a big deal that they were asked to get off the plane. It is great when people have kids, but it should be respected that they should not be imposed on other people. __________________ I like things. And stuff. But I prefer to have things over stuff.

07-14-2007, 03:50 AM	#20 (permalink)
Demeter Psycho	My son would have gotten me kicked off of many flights. Although I never had trouble taking my daughter out in public and having her act anything other than exemplary, my son was another story. Many a time I left restaurants or stores because of his behavior. Nothing I ever did stopped his outbursts, but I at least had consideration for the others around me. If my own child's actions annoyed me as his parent, I could see how others would find his behavior abhorrent. If I had been kicked off a plane thusly, I would have been embarrassed and apologetic, not indignant. __________________ I am not bound to please thee with my answers. William Shakespeare

07-14-2007, 06:16 AM	#22 (permalink)
warrrreagl pinche vato Location: backwater, Third World, land of cotton	warrrreagl just walks by this thread whistling __________________ Living is easy with eyes closed.

07-14-2007, 06:31 AM	#23 (permalink)
fresnelly Functionally Appropriate Location: Toronto	Our 2.5 year old son has been on a number of flights already and mostly he's been great, but it can be a struggle. If he's really fussy I'll walk him up and down the aisle a few times, taking care not to let him grab or interfere with the sitting passengers. Most of them either look at me with good cheer or sympathy and a glare of disapproval is rare. What do you think of this technique? __________________ Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

07-14-2007, 09:17 AM	#24 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Okay... in a restaurant or movie (just last night I rolled my eyes at a fussy kid at a 10p movie), yeah, you can remove your kid, do whatever you have to do. It's usually less than $50 bucks, and usually there's some room to adjust. But she was on a PLANE on her way to go somewhere... had paid at least a hundred bucks or so. If the plane is taxi-ing, he's only been on there a few minutes. What a judgment call that stewardess made... wow. 10 minutes and she's decided she knows best? What a cunt. I would have had to restrain myself from slapping her upside the head. I think certain situations need a little more understanding. A little more patience. Do I want a screaming kid on my flight? Of course not. Neither does the parent, I'm sure. If they could get the kid to shut up, I'm sure they would. Are they an incompetent parent? Possibly, yeah. But the guy in seat 4C with too much cologne on who's making the whole plane smell is a jerk too. So is the idiot talking to someone sitting 5 seats away. Oh, and the 20-somethings in the back who keep going up the aisle and bumping into me. Let's not forget the cart pushers who try to take out anything that's not inside your seat by 5 inches. People are assholes. Kids are just better at being one than adults. If it were a movie theater, kick 'em out. But a plane has cost too much and involved too much in terms of time, etc. Just so you know... chances are, you who "don't want to have to put up with someone else's kid" and all that... someone doesn't want to have to put up with you, either. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'. Last edited by The_Jazz; 07-14-2007 at 10:06 AM..

07-14-2007, 10:35 AM	#26 (permalink)
JustJess Unencapsulated Location: Kittyville	Not that you were the only one I was giving a hard time to, but okay... here: 1. Yeah, if the business is choosing to cater to a particular audience ala your aunt's restaurant, more power to them. But the airline doesn't have this as part of their business model. So it's wrong, to me. 2. I doubt very much that kids that are acting up are cute to their parents, either. I also don't consider "bye bye plane" to be acting up, if probably annoying. I just get fed up with people and their "only MY wants/needs/desires matter! MINE MINE MINE!" That goes for parents that keep screaming kids in public places and people who want normal-level noisy kids kept away from any possible interaction with them. __________________ My heart knows me better than I know myself, so I'm gonna let it do all the talkin'.

07-14-2007, 11:31 AM	#28 (permalink)
stevie667 Too Awesome for Aardvarks Location: Angloland	Meh, its not kicking the people off the flight that irritates me, planes need quiet imo. Telling someone to drug their child, thats a huge no-no in my book, which definatly merits throwing a fuss about. __________________ Office hours have changed. Please call during office hours for more information.

07-14-2007, 01:46 PM	#31 (permalink)
lurkette My future is coming on Moderator Emeritus Location: east of the sun and west of the moon	Let's be democratic. Why not put little voting machines on planes, kind of like the ones on "America's Funniest Home Videos" and let the passengers decide whether to boot the kid off? If enough people are annoyed, off they go. It leaves the decision up to the people most affected - fellow passengers. I'm only sort of kidding. On the one hand, flying is not a right. You're paying for a service provided by a private company who can do pretty much whatever they want, within reason. As long as they refund you the cost of the ticket, they can refuse you service. If you can't control your kid (and granted, a 19-month-old is pretty hard to "control") you probably shouldn't be flying. There are lots of things that you have to do without your kids, or wait to do till your kid is older. Maybe this is just one of them for people who have wild children. On the other hand, the kid wasn't a safety hazard, to himself or others. I can see kicking off the kid who just wouldn't be seated. Everyone has to be seated for takeoff; them's the rules. This kid was just annoying. And there are lots of things on flights that are annoying, from the crowded conditions to not being able to recline your seat, to having the guy in front of you try to recline his seat anyhow and crush your knees, etc. I don't quite see how a loud kid is such a different class of annoyance that they should be barred from a flight. Unless the flight attendant can make a pretty compelling argument that this kid was interfering with her ability to do her job and keep the other passengers safe, this seems like a bit of an overreaction. __________________ "If ten million people believe a foolish thing, it is still a foolish thing." - Anatole France Last edited by lurkette; 07-14-2007 at 01:54 PM..

07-14-2007, 11:35 PM	#34 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	I saw this shirt on a child yelling and pointing at me today, and I smiled... I had a couple of comments to make, but I would only be re-iterating the thoughts posted by willravel and the responses made by filtherton; so, instead, here for you is a little mood-settling: __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

07-15-2007, 05:03 PM	#38 (permalink)
Charlatan Getting it. Super Moderator Location: Lion City	From the description in the story it sounds like the flight attendant was a total bitch. I have no idea how close to real events this was but as written I would have been pissed with her as well. Yes, there are many parents who don't have a clue how to discipline their children. There are also kids who are good, that just don't travel well. Until they offer flights that are child-free or child only... the answer to all you gripers is to suck it up. On one hand parents have a responsibility to manage their children properly. On the other, people need to be more tolerant when kids are distressed (note I didn't say misbehaving). __________________ "My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars." - Old Man Luedecke

07-15-2007, 08:09 PM	#39 (permalink)
analog Banned	1. I'd just like to mention that it's very common for people to be prescribed medicines for sedative purposes during travel, including young children- most notably those with ADHD or known hyperactivity/anxiety disorders. These can include valium, and are most commonly Benadryl when used for children. It's a fairly common practice. I really don't think it's fair to freak out over "drugging her child". I don't, however, agree with the stewardess' suggestion to the woman to do such a thing. It's inappropriate, and she has no authority to advise a person on taking medicines, let alone a child. Also, it's just a bitch move to tell someone to give their child something. She handled the situation in practically every bad way possible. 2. For some people, the simple act of a child saying the same thing over and over to infinity can be just as annoying as kicking/screaming/tantrum, given enough repetition. It's not fair to tell people what is and is not annoying to them. You can't say "no this isn't annoying to you because I say so". You may find it ok, or bearable, but that doesn't mean other people are assholes, insensitive, impatient, etc., just because they don't have the same high threshold for kiddie bullshit that you do. I find country music completely unbearable to listen to. If it's on, I am heading in another direction to get away from it. It drives me up the wall. I'm sure many of those who would balk at the annoying habits of a child have your own pet peeves as well. Maybe you hate pop music, or classic rock, or maybe you hate a certain band. They're all pet peeves, people, and they're all things we just don't like to hear. Just because it's a child doesn't make it ok. For some people, their pet peeve is any noise coming out of any child. And you know what? You need to respect that everyone's pet peeves are different, and some people just cannot stand to hear certain things. Last edited by analog; 07-15-2007 at 08:14 PM..

07-16-2007, 12:13 AM	#40 (permalink)
Nisses Shade Location: Belgium	Somehow the stewardess comes off a bit too much as a self-centered power-hungry ego-tripping bitch. And there doesn't seem to be a statement of the airline or the stewardess herself, only the mother's side. I do suspect the stewardess was the first to make a bad move. However, I think both parties handled it very poorly from there on. And TotalMILF: I hope I never get on a plane with you If the toddler is so very tired and inconsolable after 11h, you should look into ways to get him to sleep imho, for his sake, his mother's sake, and right behind for everybody else on the plane. __________________ Moderation should be moderately moderated.