Push-Pull

Firstly, I'm not as "angry" as the thread title makes it sound, but it does give me cause to post one of my pet peeves here. That is, celebrities that think that the world owes it to them to listen. The latest example is Sheryl Crow's "One square of toilet paper." (Just google "one square of toilet paper" for the info) It is such an asnine idea that I can't believe that she even brought it up as serious. Especially considering how huge of a "carbon footprint" her and her entourage has.

So, is it me, or does it really seem as though some celebs use (abuse?) their stardom to force their opinions upon us? Don't get me wrong, I'm not ranting against celebs BECAUSE of their views, but rather that they think they owe it to the world to stand on the soapbox of their stardom and tell us what they think no matter how absurd. This is not to say that all celeb's causes are "forceful", and as an example, look at actress Daryl Hannah. How many of us here know about her 1983 El Camino powered by Biodiesel? She supports her beliefs, but doesn't force them on us. If a well recognized person wants to do a spot to support their beliefs in the ASPCA, homeless shelters, food banks, Red Cross, etc, that's one thing, but for someone to actually leverage their opinions because they are famous, well, I say that's quite another.

What say you peeps?

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"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

fresnelly

The thing is, people keep asking them.

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Building an artificial intelligence that appreciates Mozart is easy. Building an A.I. that appreciates a theme restaurant is the real challenge - Kit Roebuck - Nine Planets Without Intelligent Life

mixedmedia

I dunno, this really doesn't bother me. They have opinions and things that matter to them just like all of us do. Since we have chosen, essentially, to be a culture that hangs on every word these folks say, I hardly think we have the right to choose or limit their words.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Siege

These celebrities wouldn't have so much gosh damn power if regular joes didn't keep giving it to them.

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"Your name's Geek? Do you know the origin of the term? A geek is someone who bites the heads off chickens at a circus. I would never let you suck my dick with a name like Geek"

--Kevin Smith

This part just makes my posts easier to find

debaser

The carbon footprint is a red herring. It's the fact that Cheryl Crow is so full of shit that she wants to hoard all of the toilet paper for herself.

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shakran

What gives you any more right than a celebrity to have and express an opinion? You don't stop thinking and having views on issues when you become famous. If a celebrity has no right to express an opinion, then neither do you. . .

Charlatan

I was about to go on a rant but this is a much more polite way of putting what I was going to say.

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"My hands are on fire. Hands are on fire. Ain't got no more time for all you charlatans and liars."
- Old Man Luedecke

Willravel

Everyone's stupid in some way, celebrities just happen to be in the spotlight. If I were a celebrity, I'd probably say or do something stupid every once in a while, even though I'm a f**king genius.

pig

wow, i double up on charlatan doubling up on shakran, who very nearly doubled up on mixed. what a great big happy family.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

mirevolver

I find a very simple solution if you disagree with a celebrity's opinions. Just as they have the right to say what they want to say no matter how rediculus, you have the right to choose not to buy their CDs, or see their movies, or watch their TV shows.

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Aside from my great plans to become the future dictator of the moon, I have little interest in political discussions.

KellyC

I stopped taking such people seriously, as I do to most celebrities. I see them as entertainers only; nothing more, nothing less. So I either ignore what they say or don't make a big deal out of it any more.

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Him: Ok, I have to ask, what do you believe?
Me: Shit happens.

trickyy

Willravel

Trickyy wins the thread. Thanks for playing everyone.

filtherton

Sometimes i wish everyone would shut the fuck up. Especially when my telenovelas are on. Motherfuckers.

pig

i find the worst, filthy, is when a person like myself who doesn't actually own a tv..is at the house of someone who does. they put on shitty tv, which they are used to ignoring while they carry on the 'how was your day' conversation. but me...i'm drawn in like a moth to a flame. i just want them to shut the fuck up because i'm hanging on every word coming out of detective benson's mouth, and they're talking about ted in accounting. i'm dying over here...shut the fuck up already or turn it off.

those damn celebrities. how has the alec baldwin thing not hit tfp yet?

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

mixedmedia

Yeah, there's a time for celebrities to be heard...like, when they're calling their kid a pig.

When exactly did our priorities become so completely fucked up?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

Jetée

I'm not quite sure that it is our priority to listen to celebrities rant on about their qualms, but it is the media that decides to force-feed it down our throats.

Do as you do without succumbing to the influence of boob-tubes, newspaper gossip stories, or internet headlines, and you might find that celebrities hold very little power. It's all just white noise.

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As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

hambone

Fame can be used for good though. As much as the opinions themselves are no better or worse than the average joes, the audience is so much bigger that while a dumb statement looks all the more stupid, a really good idea can get off the ground if uttered by a celebrity as opposed to some normal guy voicing it to his friends.

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"Like liquid white from fallen glass,
Nothing to cry over"

mixedmedia

What I meant by that was, and I'm not necessarily referring to Push-Pull, but I've heard these complaints before, especially from conservatives who don't appreciate so many celebrities being so liberal and so vocal about it. Yet, when the time comes for one of these same celebrities to be forced out into the limelight for something controversial or despicable that they've said there's nary a peep?

As if to say, as a celebrity, anything ugly, shocking or controversial you say (that was meant to be private or, at least, not a worldwide scandal) is ultimately more important than anything good you say on the behalf of something you care about.

I don't stake more claim in a celebrity's opinion than I do in anyone else's. Just as with anyone else, if I am compelled to listen I will. If not, then I won't. It's pretty simple.

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

The_Jazz

What about celebrities that use their fame for good rather than evil? Jerry Lewis is the quintescential example.

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

Psycho Dad

If I recall, about 1983. I can't put my finger on a particular event, but that seems the time I first felt like we were in a shitter. Through the years I've noticed a few steps forward but then we seem to slide backwards again.

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Don't always trust the opinions of experts.

pig

another thing i noticed was no one seemed to get too pissy about this guy back in 2003:

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Jetée

Bruce Willis da Man!

Why would I have reason to be consternated by him?

__________________
As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves.

—Mohandas K. Gandhi

pig

i don't know if you would; i could care less about what his political leanings are. much more interested in catching re-runs of moonlighting. however, he was very vocal in support of the iraq war and president bush. i never heard any of the people who would like to cut off alec baldwin's testes or kick barbara streisand out of the country for voicing their opposition to the war get very angry with bruce for speaking up. ergo, i think the whole thing is mostly a loaded bs issue which mostly goes to liking those people that reinforce your opinions, and disliking those who don't.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Suave

That, and there's always that Spiderman quote: "with great power comes great responsibility". They take it as a responsibility to opine on numerous worldly subjects, regardless of how educated they may or may not be.

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"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

Bill O'Rights

Aaaand...BINGO!

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"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do because I notice it always coincides with their own desires." - Susan B. Anthony

"Hedonism with rules isn't hedonism at all, it's the Republican party." - JumpinJesus

It is indisputable that true beauty lies within...but a nice rack sure doesn't hurt.

mixedmedia

You mean *gasp* just like everyone else?

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Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

icecoast

Sometimes you need someone that people can visualize to speak out about problems and bring attention to it.

Ourcrazymodern?

Let's consider "them" as fellow human beings and stop being offended.

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BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

Seaver

That brings up the Dixie Chicks. I couldn't stand their music, and I'm an avid Country music lover.

I didn't care what they said when they said it. I never liked them to begin with, and was glad they were off the airwaves. What drove me insane is they became a child of the anti-war movement. The fat one kept saying how un-accepting hicks are, and the reaction proves every anti-country stereotype. Nevermind their previous song consisted of killing a guy named Earl, they are progressive and Country lovers are racist hicks.

Their big defense was the 1st Amendment, even though there was no reason to claim it. They had every right to say what they did, we had every right to no longer support them because of it. Of course there was a media blitz, including a documentary which conveniently won awards, but they are no longer supported within country music.

What's worse than celebraties which get a pedistal to state everything they want? People trying to tell us we have to support them regardless of what they say.

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"Smite the rocks with the rod of knowledge, and fountains of unstinted wealth will gush forth." - Ashbel Smith as he laid the first cornerstone of the University of Texas

mixedmedia

Who told you that you had to support the Dixie Chicks regardless of what they say? If you really liked the Dixie Chicks would you have still supported their music? I think that's a much more interesting question.

I liked Home...but frankly, the rest of their albums sound like most of the other new country crap to me.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pig

yeah, i dig the album with "wide open spaces" on it a little. i think they're a lot like barbara mandrel was; way more talented than the myopic genre they play in lets them express it.

and i know we obviously differ here seaver, but i would bed down with natalie maines for quite a while if she'd get back to the funk she was kicking a couple of years ago. since then, it's been a lot of bad hair.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Push-Pull

Wow, this thread grew while I was gone today! If I may...

I have no more right than anyone else, I very much agree. But then, this is as tall as my soapbox will ever be, seeing how I will most likely never be in the position to use the media to my advantage.

Re-reading my post (I was a bit hurried this morning) I realize that I didn't really hit my point square on. Allow me to try again.....

What I'm trying to say is that it's not about liberal/conservative viewpoints, (I deliberately left political examples out of my original post just for that reason) it's about just doing what you're good at and let the fans enjoy your talent.

The fact that certain people become celebs is due to the average Joe/JoAnne actually liking them for whatever it is they do. Sing, dance, act, perform, etc. My gripe was that these people are willing to cash in on their popularity just to press their views upon us. That just doesn't seem intelligent to me, it's akin to ignorantly voicing opinions on topics that most likely will tick someone off in front of your entire office staff over the PA system.

FWIW, Being somewhat the noob here, I am *REALLY* enjoying the forum and interaction. I sincerely appreciate all the replies, no matter the opinion.

__________________
"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

shakran

So what you're telling us is that you're so altruistic that if for whatever reason you DID become famous you would make absolutely sure not to express an opinion about ANYTHING any time a camera was rolling?

But the other problem is that Americans are positively in love with pigeonholing people into one profession. A lawyer can't possibly tell you how to fix your car - he's only a lawyer. And the guy who fixes your car can't possibly be good at acting - he's just a grease monkey. And of course the actor can't possibly be capable of rational political thought. . .right?



And you do the same thing. You express your opinions to your circle of friends. You're cashing in on their friendship in the hopes that they will tolerate you spouting off about your beliefs.

Every thought, no matter what it is, is going to piss someone off. That's all there is to it. But if you have a thought, and you feel it's an important thought that everyone should consider, and you have the choice between telling a couple hundred people on a message board or 300 million people on television, doncha think it'd be pretty stupid not to take that chance if it was available to you?

I'm not trying to tell you to shut up - I think you have the right to your opinion and you have the right to broadcast it to as wide an audience as you can reach. But you're not unique - I think everyone should have that right.

Sure it's not "fair" that celebs have so much more access to the airwaves than we do, but then life isn't fair is it? It's not fair that they drive Bentleys while you drive whatever it is you drive that costs 300 times less than their car. Should we begrudge them for taking advantage of the opportunities that are available to them?

I always kinda chuckle inside when I see someone still claim that America is the land of opportunity, because to listen to the masses talk, it sure as hell isn't. Oh sure, it's great to have opportunities, but as soon as we see someone who has greater opportunities than we have, we get annoyed and rather than trying to make greater opportunities for ourselves, we simply begrudge the people who already have them.

I think it's important when we get a kneejerk idea in our head (celebrities should shut up, the news media is full of nothing but assholes, the moon landing didn't really happen, etc etc) we should stop and think about what it really means and what is motivating our thought process. Often times we'll find that we're really angry at something else entirely and are transferring blame for it onto something innocent.

Xazy

It is sad that people buy in to celebs so much. I go to shows and I see people waiting in line for signatures, I just do not give a crap. I wish people would not buy in to it, but sadly what I fear is true most people are stupid.

mixedmedia

dude, what are you referring to here?

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce

pig

i'd guess all the bitching about the news media's role in the Virginia Tech Massacre '07 (tm) is getting to shakran a wee bit.

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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

Push-Pull

When it came to controversial issues, you're damn straight that's exactly what I'd do! I'd do my job (talent) enjoy my success, and be as quiet/invisible as possible. I don't feel the need to be heard and reaffirmed
by anyone outside my closest freinds and family.

Well, yes and no. I *try* not to get into controversial issues with people. It does happen on occassion, but as a rule, I try to avoid it to "keep the peace" as it were. Also, I'd like to point out a major difference between freindship discussions and celebs in the media....The celebs opinions are not always open to debate as it would be in a close relationship.

Great debate BTW. Thanks!

__________________
"No laws, no matter how rigidly enforced, can protect a person from their own stupidity." -Me-

"Some people are like Slinkies..... They are not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs." -Unknown-

DAMMIT! -Jack Bauer-

The_Jazz

You know who I blame for all these celebrity opinions? You. That's right you. You're the one who watches "Access Hollywood", etc. which is where most of these things pop up. You're the one who reads the National Enquirer or the celebrity section in the paper.

A celebrity is supporting a political candidate you don't like? So. Fucking. What. Their vote counts just as much as yours does, and maybe it's a hint that you should get off your fat ass and volunteer for your candidate. At least the celebrity is engaged in the process. You, you're just bitching. And you know what, you're bitching about the GOSSIP PAGES. I'll suffer bitching about the op/ed pieces or something that's actually news, but I won't listen to you, Mr. and Mrs. America, complain because some entertainer doesn't agree with your personal agenda.

What does any anything that some "star" believes have to do with me? Nothing. If I like The Who, does that mean that I'm going to abuse drugs and alcohol? No, it means I like their music. If I like Bob Mould, does that make me gay or pro-gay marriage or anything of the sort? No, in my case it means that I think he perfected the power trio sound. I couldn't care less who he sleeps with or votes for. As a matter of fact, I think he should have less sex and get involved in no political movements so that he can spend more time in the studio making music I like. But if he doesn't want to do that, so what? Alec Baldwin is in one of the only 2 or 3 funny shows on TV, and he's arguably the funniest person on the show. He's certainly consistently been the funniest host on SNL for the past 10 or so years. He has a policital agenda and people listen to him? Great. I don't care. Don't try to make me have to care. I will get angry.

Jesus, have we really gotten to the point where we're going to elect our leaders like "American Idol" or "Survivor"?

__________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - B. Franklin
"There ought to be limits to freedom." - George W. Bush
"We have met the enemy and he is us." - Pogo

mixedmedia

This is what I'm suspecting, too, but I'm going to hold out for shakran to confirm or deny this, because I take exception to his assessment of my words if it's so. That is not what I said. At all.

__________________
Most people go through life dreading they'll have a traumatic experience. Freaks were born with their trauma. They've already passed their test in life. They're aristocrats. - Diane Arbus
PESSIMISM, n. A philosophy forced upon the convictions of the observer by the disheartening prevalence of the optimist with his scarecrow hope and his unsightly smile. - Ambrose Bierce