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04-18-2007, 04:54 PM | #241 (permalink) | |||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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Last edited by Willravel; 04-18-2007 at 04:56 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-18-2007, 05:09 PM | #242 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Florida
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04-18-2007, 05:46 PM | #244 (permalink) | ||
That's what she said
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I believe that psychology has the potential to be a much more effective preventitive measure than any number of policies or bans that lawmakers can come up with. However, obviously the barrier here is educating enough people and having the manpower in place to provide the necessary help.
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"Tie yourself to your limitless potential, rather than your limiting past." "Every man I meet is my superior in some way. In that, I learn of him." |
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04-18-2007, 06:10 PM | #245 (permalink) | |
Crazy
Location: Florida
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04-18-2007, 06:22 PM | #246 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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1) Having better funded and researched programs in elementary schools reinforcing positive and healthy mental health. (not necessarily for this case, as he grew up in Korea, but in other similar cases) 2) Better screenings of people who exhibit unhealthy behavioral patterns. 3) Universal mental health care. |
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04-18-2007, 09:21 PM | #247 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
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04-19-2007, 04:06 AM | #248 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 04-19-2007 at 04:08 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 04:24 AM | #249 (permalink) | |||
Addict
Location: Spring, Texas
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Will, I find your posts quite insightful, and DO enjoy seeing you bring out some interesting points, even if I disagree with you. Again it is a priveledge to debate things with you! Quote:
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While I agree with you that MOST people would say they keep a firearm in their home to protect their family, It's not like you would ask someone that question and honestly expect them to respond "I keep my firearm just in case a militia is formed to raise up against a tyranical government"... Unfortunately our country is what it is today. and as such, we have an inordinate amount of criminals that are themselves armed. I see it this way, if were were to finally have the government say "thats it! enough! we have decided to repeal the 2nd amendment, and will require all citizens to disarm themselves"...next thing you know, the CRIMINALS who ARE still armed, now know that NOBODY is at home with a firearm. They can now go on a crime spree, knowing that homeowners can no longer defend themselves against them with them carrying a gun! To be honest, I wouldn't mind at all giving up my gun, if the government could GUARANTEE that I would be protected in my own home against said criminals. Our country is what it is. and unfortunately I cannot see a sucessful ban on firearms. I DO agree with stricter MONITORING of gun purchasing and ownership. EVERY gun I own is registered. Even the ones purchased from a private individual gets registered with my local sherriff's office. On a side note. There is much talk about the "mental stability" of the person who commited the massacre at VT. The biggest thing is this....when filling out a gun purchase form, one of the questions is "have you ever been hospitalized or treated for a mental condition"...this question is COMPLETELY voluntary in answer, because if you all remember, Mental health conditions are like a lawyer, client's privacy is protected, so it is not like when the people involved in doing the background check can ACTUALLY check to see if you have ever been commited, unless the commiting was done by a court order..... And as was mentioned earlier. it is federal law that you cannot purchase OR own a handgun under the age of 21 in ANY state. If yo uwere given a HANDGUN as a gift, and are under the age of 21, then the person who gave it to you has VIOLATED FEDERAL LAW...I had looked this up not that long ago. The law was enacted by Bill Clinton in his last year in office. Unless Things have changed. If so, then I say we should push for it again!
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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison |
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04-19-2007, 07:03 AM | #250 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
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We can't always stop this sort of thing from happening but just because we can't stop something doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it. This is why we have increased our security in the US. We can't stop the terrorists but we can stop some of them. The whole we can't always do something so do nothing attitude is completely ridiculous. |
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04-19-2007, 07:25 AM | #251 (permalink) | |||||||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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They could keep the weapons at home, locked up. Quote:
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04-19-2007, 07:39 AM | #252 (permalink) | |||||
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Location: Spring, Texas
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And no. your infrance does NOT still stand. A child CHOOSING to drink and risk themselves has NOTHING to do with a person whose SOLE INTENT was to kill people. The teenage drinker, or drug user is NOT going out with the INTENT to try and kill someone else, in a mass production way. I am in NO WAY saying that we shouldn't try to do something to prevent crime. What I AM saying, is that there really is no way to totally prevent all crimes. I am simply stating that trying to take guns away from everyone is a flawed concept in THIS country. Back to the weapon specific disussion: I have read your posts about "fingerprinting" a gun when purchasing. Did you know that I can fire less than 200 rounds through a pistol, and change the "fingerprint" so to speak by the 200th round? The rifling of a barrel can change over time. The way they get a match in the riffling is usually due to a limited number of rounds fired after the one that is being investigated. So fingerprinting a barrel would really be insignificant. Quote:
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Again, I am honoured to have debates with you Willravel!
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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison |
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04-19-2007, 07:42 AM | #253 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 04-19-2007 at 07:46 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 07:56 AM | #254 (permalink) |
Junkie
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Ok DK you are right we should abolish all laws because prohibition doesn't fix anything. We should allow parents to beat their children senseless, men should be able to rape women when ever they please. There should be no laws against robbing people. After all prohibiting these behaviors doesn't stop it. Anarchy rules!
DK it seems like the ideal society for you is a feudal society where might makes right. We had this a long time ago, it was a flawed system and barely worked. Hell they have this now in Afghanistan with the tribal warlords and look how well it works for them. I'm not saying we should ban guns, i'm saying we should ban certain types of weapons and have better background checks when purchasing weapons. |
04-19-2007, 08:07 AM | #255 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 08:16 AM | #256 (permalink) |
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I fail to see how more comprehensive background checks isn't going to help prevent this sort of thing from happening. Will it stop it? No. Will it reduce the occurrence of gun related crime? Yes. Will it stop law abiding citizens from getting guns? No. What is wrong with more comprehensive background checks? Do you feel there should be no background check at all?
On the same point I don't see any reason (other than ego) to own an RPG, submachine gun, or other weapons which have high rates of collateral damage. |
04-19-2007, 08:18 AM | #257 (permalink) |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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This is much like when Limbaugh took the London bombings and turned them political that day..... I feel sad and disgusted with the people (and especially the politicians, who show how much they truly care about the citizenry) on both sides turning this event into a political arena.
Granted, there should be debate and both sides will bring forth great educational and beneficial facts for some to ponder and come to an opinion over. However, I believe good taste and respect to the families would be to give it a week of mourning and recovering then begin the debate. Going straight to debate hours or a day or 2 afterward is grandstanding and trying to gain political points and to me shows very little concern or care for those who lost family members. You are not going to change policy, or people's opinions this soon anyway, so why not show respect and wait a week to calm down, think truly about the event that happened, feel the pain and loss, gather your thoughts and then bring forth your debates. Otherwise you are nothing but vultures, picking at the bones, rehashing what-ifs and playing on the heightened emotions of the people. That's just my opinion. There are good points made by both sides... but I do feel that this debate could have waited until respect was shown to the lost.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
04-19-2007, 08:30 AM | #258 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 09:05 AM | #259 (permalink) | ||||
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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04-19-2007, 09:12 AM | #260 (permalink) | ||||
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As a tangental discussion I'd like to look at the idea that many students are carrying weapons. Someone in one class room starts shooting. People start screaming and yelling shooter. People with guns in other class rooms grab their guns and start running in the halls. All the sudden we have people running around looking to shoot someone with a gun while they have a gun. What is going to stop all of these people from shooting each other? Then the police come and see people with guns shooting each other and they pull out their guns and start shooting them because they are unable to identify the real shooter from the people with guns. That is a very bad but likely situation if everyone comes running with guns. People that are not trained panic, they do not know how to react and they react poorly. The situation could get much worse because of lots of people having guns. Being someone who has taught college courses I can tell you that I would not be comfortable with my students packing heat. Nor would most of my colleges. Last edited by Rekna; 04-19-2007 at 09:17 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 09:18 AM | #261 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." Last edited by dksuddeth; 04-19-2007 at 09:20 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 09:29 AM | #263 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 09:34 AM | #264 (permalink) |
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It isn't age that bothers me. I don't feel that I should have to teach in front of a potential firing squad. If I hand someone a bad grade I don't want to worry about will they snap.
Please respond to my comments on Iraq and gun control and the case where people don't know who the gunman is because lots of people are running around with guns trying to find the gunman. |
04-19-2007, 09:41 AM | #265 (permalink) | |||
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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Let me start by saying I do respect your views and your passion, I always have and always will. However the post I quoted (and yes there was more and I agree with that portion), is plain and simple emotional bullshit. Just as the side that says "This proves we need gun control" is plain and simple emotional bullshit. To state the above Quote:
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To use this and play on people's emotions to further your own political gain is wrong, especially this soon afterward. There are better arguments and ways to prove points without having to reduce your arguments to such tasteless statements that do not take into account the feelings of those that have lost loved ones. We are talking about a fucking tragedy in a painful time and both sides want to politicize it and make brownie points. When there is no need to, when there is no justification in doing so, and when people just need to digest and accept and mourn over the losses. I am truly saddened and believe this shows how torn our nation has become when such an event is not mourned for what happened but is politicized and emotions preyed upon to further one's views.
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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04-19-2007, 09:41 AM | #266 (permalink) |
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If we look at the intent of the 2nd amendment it is there so that the population is armed in order to keep the government in check. You can have weapons at home and accomplish this. It's intent was not to have a population walking around with guns. No that sounds like the middle east to me.
If the government were to go crazy tomorrow and need to be overthrown the majority of the population would have time to go home and get their guns. I highly doubt the government is going to be able to raid every single office and home in the US at the same time. |
04-19-2007, 09:44 AM | #267 (permalink) | ||
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Location: Spring, Texas
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And as far as students running around with guns, Personally, I don't agree with arming the student populace, as I have stated in an earlier post in this thread, Rather ALLOWING the faculty to arm themselves IF THEY CHOOSE TO, after completing an appropriate firearm training class and background checks. Quote:
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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison Last edited by Deltona Couple; 04-19-2007 at 09:48 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 09:49 AM | #268 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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1) don't teach. ( I know, not very reasonable.) 2) have your institution implement the types of security that were talked about earlier....armed guards on every floor, metal detectors monitored by armed guards at every entrance, and an unscalable wall with only one guarded entrance 3) carry your own gun for defense. Quote:
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 09:52 AM | #269 (permalink) | |
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I don't see whats wrong with making sure people who want a gun know how to use a gun and making sure that people who want a gun are mentally and criminally fit to own a gun. |
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04-19-2007, 09:53 AM | #270 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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All in all, when I say that gun control contributed to the deaths, I'm not blaming it directly. The blame lies squarely on the shoulders of the one who perpetrated the crime, but we can ALL see the ONE SINGLE THING that these 32 victims had in common, right? The fact that they were all unarmed and defenseless.
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"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 09:53 AM | #271 (permalink) | |
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04-19-2007, 10:07 AM | #272 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: bedford, tx
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__________________
"no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him." |
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04-19-2007, 10:16 AM | #273 (permalink) | |
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Location: Spring, Texas
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On an asside, I chuckled a little at the wording "criminally fit to own a gun" If you read it as a third party, it sounds kinda funny!
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"It is not that I have failed, but that I have found 10,000 ways that it DOESN'T work!" --Thomas Edison |
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04-19-2007, 10:27 AM | #274 (permalink) | |
Lennonite Priest
Location: Mansfield, Ohio USA
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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?" |
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04-19-2007, 10:28 AM | #275 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I can say that if the UK can do something, so can we. .05% of all crime in the UK has anything to do with a gun. CAN YOU IMAGINE THOSE STATS HERE?! |
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04-19-2007, 10:35 AM | #276 (permalink) | |||
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The AP is reporting that the other gun was legally purchased from an internet website located in Green Bay. http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/7103521.html Quote:
Last edited by Rekna; 04-19-2007 at 12:01 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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04-19-2007, 02:03 PM | #277 (permalink) | |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Not true. Every household is allowed one AKM style weapon and one full magazine of ammunition for it.
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
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04-19-2007, 03:13 PM | #278 (permalink) | |
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Last edited by Rekna; 04-19-2007 at 03:16 PM.. |
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04-19-2007, 06:19 PM | #279 (permalink) |
Sir, I have a plan...
Location: 38S NC20943324
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Iraqis are not allowed to carry weapons, period. If we caught them with a weapon in their car we would arrest them and turn them over to the police, who would immediately let them go.
Handguns were not allowed, but we usually turned a blind eye when we found one. First off, none of the violence being perpetrated in our AO involved pistols. Second, we figured that if we lived in Iraq we'd all want a pistol, too. EDIT- Note: there are a lot of weapons either not addressed or prohibited under CPA and Iraqi law that are non-issues. For example, we had many hunters in our area, and equally many shotguns. We never confiscated these except when we found other damning evidence in the residence or vehicle. Often times we would actually give hunters shotgun ammo when we came across them, as we recieved a metric fuck-ton of #6 shotshells for our shotguns (which were totally useless to us).
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Fortunato became immured to the sound of the trowel after a while.
Last edited by debaser; 04-19-2007 at 06:25 PM.. |
04-19-2007, 06:30 PM | #280 (permalink) |
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Thanks for the information debaser. How many tours have you done?
I personally like the idea of allowing people to own reasonable guns and keep them in their home. What I don't like is the idea of a everyone carrying a concealed hand gun. I don't have any stats on this but i'm willing to be the majority of gun crime in the US is done with a handgun. |
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control, gun, politics, shooting, talk, tech, thread |
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