Is Scientology A Religion or Cult??? - Page 2 - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-22-2007, 08:44 PM

Well, not exactly. They weren't publishing comic books then, sir.

DaveOrion · 03-22-2007, 09:01 PM

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-22-2007, 09:17 PM

Except that comic books weren't around.

DaveOrion · 03-22-2007, 09:20 PM

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-22-2007, 09:32 PM

Sir! I got caught with my pants down around the comic book thingy. Having paid particular attention to all the red letters, there's very little there that a sheep couldn't figure out...

DaveOrion · 03-22-2007, 09:38 PM

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-22-2007, 09:54 PM

At the slaughterhouse I toured long ago, they had a goat trained to lead the sheep up a number of stories to where they would be killed. The goat knew to go quickly through a different door, or so the story went...
Ah, hell, take it as you will! I'm guessing something else is going on.

Can you guess the goat's "name"?

03-23-2007, 08:55 AM

I'm not a religious person at all - personally, I believe religion was always just a control method to keep the masses in line with what those in power at the time wanted.
It seems more lives have been lost "in the name of (someone's) god" thoughout history than about any other reason.

So I, personally, find pretty much any religion as somewhat dangerous in some way or another. However, I will never look down on somone's personal beliefs.
You are you, and if it works for ya...

My philosophy is to let people believe what they will, as long as they don't try to impose their values on others (me).
I personally follow my own moral code. Do what you will, but cause no harm. It works for me.

My wife is Catholic, and years ago I agreed to let her raise the children that way, but no way would I ever convert. Fortunately, she is also enlightened enough to agree to let them choose their own path later in life if they so desire.

Now, back on topic : I read the whole unauthorized biography of Hubbard.
He seemed to be a habitual liar who ultimately started believing in his own BS.

Their church seems to be very insular, controlling, and opposed to free will.
You have to buy your way up the ladder.
The whole back story is freaking nuts.
They're quick to oppose any who speak out against them.
Of them all , however, these guys seem to bother me the most.
Sounds like elements of both a cult and a religion to me.

...wow.. I must have had too much coffee this morning...

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-23-2007, 09:03 AM

Oh my god, you sound like you're sane! Thank you for being "here"!

bluepolaski · 03-23-2007, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Most organized religions are run like a "business".

I cannot say this is entire untrue, but I will defend the fact that some religions accept donations while others require it. The third pillar of Islam states that one must give alms, usually with money or possessions. A man I once knew a long time ago was of a small Protestant sect and was required to donate 10% of his income monthly. I remember him vividly because he had to sell his beautiful Mustang GT to meet this donation requirement, which I thought was a shame.

However, during my childhood as a Catholic I was never required to give anything. I did, but I was never required to.

Religions/cults/whatevers like Scientology require you to spend large sums of money in order to gain wisdom or rise within the church's hierarchy. Audit sessions in the church of scientology can cost $200 per session, and if patrons don't have that money, it isn't forgiven, but they are given loans they must pay back. It has ruin many lives and put many people bankrupt. It's plain wrong in my eyes as the wise would never charge to reveal their knowledge. Socrates never did it, Siddhartha Gautama never did it, never has a wise person throughout history ever required people to pay for knowledge.

We're infected with alien souls killed by the evil lord Xenu? Fine, believe what you want, but coercing people for their money is downright dirty.

Val_1 · 03-24-2007, 08:34 AM

All cults are religions, not all religions are cults. And essentially non-conformance to popular belief is what slides certain religions into the cult category.

If the membership of said cult increased in popularity enough to become the majority of a population, then it would magically leaves the cult category and become a mainstream religion. Like what happened to Christianity as it spread in the early days. And what appears to be happening to Mormonism now. And could see it happening to Scientology in the future. Though it would have to have a "poor man's" edition available. It seems to be a rather expensive religion to get into, though I haven't actually price checked.

Eeeraq · 03-24-2007, 02:34 PM

Check out this, if you have like, an hour and 8 minute and 53 seconds to spare, or so...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...76767287&hl=en

also

http://www.stopscientology.com

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-26-2007, 07:20 PM

*Ain't got the time* Lessee if we can make anything else up and pretend it amounts to a universal truth! The donors must be capitalists hoping for salvation. What goes around comes around, if you hope hard enough.

DaveOrion · 03-27-2007, 05:28 PM

Ourcrazymodern? · 03-27-2007, 07:51 PM

If getting into heaven costs anything it wasn't worth the price of admission.

Plaid13 · 04-01-2007, 12:52 PM

All orginized religion is a cult. Crazy myths people follow blindly because they need something to believe in. No matter how its done or why. Its whats been brainwashed into you at some point or another. From birth with a popular religion or when your depressed lonely or bored with most cults. You believe in something you wouldnt normaly believe in.

If people want to have faith in a god thats all fine and good but dont do it because of what other people tell you. Do it because of what you know to be true yourself. If there is some all powerful god then it most likely understands you better then you can understand it. So why even try. if it was that important to god that you believe in it then it would of givin you some sort of proof and reason to do so.

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-01-2007, 06:22 PM

[QUOTE=Mr_E]

So I, personally, find pretty much any religion as somewhat dangerous in some way or another.

() seems to be very insular, controlling, and opposed to free will.
You have to buy your way up the ladder.
The whole back story is freaking nuts.
They're quick to oppose any who speak out against them.
Sounds like elements of both a cult and a religion to me.

QUOTE]

Will anybody guess what this reminds me of?

Apologies, Mr_E, but it fit so good.

Jetée · 04-01-2007, 07:24 PM

I will venture that Mr_E meant to generalize most religions and/or cults
in the simplest and most frequenly hit-upon points of foundation,
but I know what you are getting at BUGEYES, because, in America and the political world abroad,
it would be this religion that is scrutinized upon most.

......And for those of you who still might not know what OCM is alluding to,
it's the pre-dominant religion in the area of the Middle-East
where the war in Iraq is still being fought;
Islam, am I right, ourcrazymodern?

Baraka_Guru · 04-01-2007, 08:03 PM

Okay, my take on this is that Scientology is originally a sci-fi take on existing religions. Almost step by step, the "beliefs" of Scientology have some shades of Buddhist beliefs. When I read the summary at the top of the thread, I immediately thought that Scientology is nothing more than a rip-off and corruption of Buddhism. It sounds cool, but it should not be taken seriously.

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-02-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetstream

I will venture that Mr_E meant to generalize most religions and/or cults
in the simplest and most frequenly hit-upon points of foundation,
but I know what you are getting at BUGEYES, because, in America and the political world abroad,
it would be this religion that is scrutinized upon most.

......And for those of you who still might not know what OCM is alluding to,
it's the pre-dominant religion in the area of the Middle-East
where the war in Iraq is still being fought;
Islam, am I right, ourcrazymodern?

Actually I was thinking about USAmerican capitalism, Jetstream. It seems as cultish as anything else does to me.

Jetée · 04-02-2007, 11:13 AM

OHHH, ourcrazymodern?

That would seem to make more sense. Sorry.

/Back to the issue at hand

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-03-2007, 01:19 PM

L. Ron Hubbard wanted to help people (?) and make a little "money" at the same time. Understanding isn't that important, if belief will do. Then, give money! Would anybody like a little Kool-ade, now?

Ample · 04-04-2007, 09:10 AM

I have to agree with what Dawkins wrote in his book

Quote:

Religious experiences are different only in that the people who claim them are numerous. Sam Harris was not being overly cynical when he wrote, in The End of Faith: "We have names for people who have many beliefs for which there is no rational justification. When their beliefs are extremely common we call them 'religious'; otherwise, they are likely to be called 'mad', 'psychotic' or ' delusional'... Clearly there is sanity in numbers. And yet, it is merely an accident of history that it is considered normal in our society to believe that the Creator of the universe can hear your thoughts, while it is demonstrative of mental illness to believe that he is communicating with you by having the rain tap in Morse code on your bedroom window. And so, while religious people are not generally mad, their core beliefs absolutely are.

Really, Scientology is not that far fetch from the stories of the bible, we are just more condition to accept the silliness of one and not the other cause more people believe it. Im sure if the numbers were flipped and Scientology had a billion members and Christianity had as many members as Scientology has today, the name of this thread would be, "Is Christianity a religion or a cult"

DaveOrion · 04-04-2007, 09:38 AM

Eeeraq · 04-04-2007, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

not even close to Hubbards level of absurdity.

I don't know... 7 days... plagues... burning bushes... sounds pretty close.

DaveOrion · 04-04-2007, 10:41 AM

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-04-2007, 02:56 PM

What is an open mind? These stories are all very strange. Comic books have nothing on the bible since it has most of them in it. Even the scientologists seem to be praising our species, when they can. All religions are cults.

Eeeraq · 04-06-2007, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveMatrix

A literal interpretation of the Bible would tend to make these stories seem strange. Approaching Bible stories with an open mind, some insight into who & when they were written, and an ability to distinguish myth & allegory from reality, may help in a more enlightened interpretation.

well... I suppose I was just giving you shit for the sake of shit-giving...
maybe if all my sarcastic quips weren't taken so literally y'all'd get a higher level of enlightenment from them.

(p.s. Claiming one crock of shit to be tastier than another doesn't excuse the fact that you're eating shit in the first place. I also guess the stories aren't all that strange, more along the lines of boring and stupid.)

shakran · 04-06-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlatan

Here's a thought... Paul took the Cult of Christ, a Jewish cult, and made it palatable to Gentiles at large. He spent the rest of his life profiting from his efforts. His letters are, after, instructions to his followers on how to best carry on and spread the Good News.

Yes, but some years before he did all this, Paul was not a well-read science fiction writer who was known for saying "the best way to get rich is to invent a religion."

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-07-2007, 12:40 PM

I have a little good news from St. Paul: Hope springs eternal.

DaveOrion · 04-07-2007, 01:57 PM

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-07-2007, 03:35 PM

Here I sit hoping you'll rephrase that. Please?

Brightwater · 04-07-2007, 08:59 PM

I think it's pretty meaningless to debate whether Scientology is a religion or cult. Essentially, most of us who aren't Scientologists consider it a cult, while most of them almost surely think of it as a religion. Apparently some people think that the mainstream religions are equally stupid, but I would like to point out that in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc, you don't have to buy your way through tiers to achieve salvation. I guess some people think that if they donate enough money to the church, it will get them into heaven, but I don't think this is true. Credibility with the church- any church- isn't necessarily credibility with God.

Ourcrazymodern? · 04-08-2007, 07:12 AM

Uh-oh!

Stick around, Brightwater.

topcat1238 · 04-09-2007, 02:05 PM

Scientology is neither a cult nor religion. It is a cusine.

At the end of the night; it's just food...

cuisine...sorry

03-22-2007, 08:44 PM	#41 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Well, not exactly. They weren't publishing comic books then, sir. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-22-2007, 09:01 PM	#42 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:50 PM..*

03-22-2007, 09:17 PM	#43 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Except that comic books weren't around. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-22-2007, 09:20 PM	#44 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:49 PM..*

03-22-2007, 09:32 PM	#45 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Sir! I got caught with my pants down around the comic book thingy. Having paid particular attention to all the red letters, there's very little there that a sheep couldn't figure out... __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-22-2007, 09:38 PM	#46 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:49 PM..*

03-22-2007, 09:54 PM	#47 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	At the slaughterhouse I toured long ago, they had a goat trained to lead the sheep up a number of stories to where they would be killed. The goat knew to go quickly through a different door, or so the story went... Ah, hell, take it as you will! I'm guessing something else is going on. Can you guess the goat's "name"? __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT Last edited by Ourcrazymodern?; 03-22-2007 at 10:14 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

03-23-2007, 08:55 AM	#48 (permalink)
Mr_E Guest	OK, they just plain scare me.. I'm not a religious person at all - personally, I believe religion was always just a control method to keep the masses in line with what those in power at the time wanted. It seems more lives have been lost "in the name of (someone's) god" thoughout history than about any other reason. So I, personally, find pretty much any religion as somewhat dangerous in some way or another. However, I will never look down on somone's personal beliefs. You are you, and if it works for ya... My philosophy is to let people believe what they will, as long as they don't try to impose their values on others (me). I personally follow my own moral code. Do what you will, but cause no harm. It works for me. My wife is Catholic, and years ago I agreed to let her raise the children that way, but no way would I ever convert. Fortunately, she is also enlightened enough to agree to let them choose their own path later in life if they so desire. Now, back on topic : I read the whole unauthorized biography of Hubbard. He seemed to be a habitual liar who ultimately started believing in his own BS. Their church seems to be very insular, controlling, and opposed to free will. You have to buy your way up the ladder. The whole back story is freaking nuts. They're quick to oppose any who speak out against them. Of them all , however, these guys seem to bother me the most. Sounds like elements of both a cult and a religion to me. ...wow.. I must have had too much coffee this morning... Last edited by Mr_E; 03-23-2007 at 09:57 AM.. Reason: spelling

03-23-2007, 09:03 AM	#49 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Oh my god, you sound like you're sane! Thank you for being "here"! __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-24-2007, 08:34 AM	#51 (permalink)
Val_1 Addict Location: In a State of Denial	All cults are religions, not all religions are cults. And essentially non-conformance to popular belief is what slides certain religions into the cult category. If the membership of said cult increased in popularity enough to become the majority of a population, then it would magically leaves the cult category and become a mainstream religion. Like what happened to Christianity as it spread in the early days. And what appears to be happening to Mormonism now. And could see it happening to Scientology in the future. Though it would have to have a "poor man's" edition available. It seems to be a rather expensive religion to get into, though I haven't actually price checked. __________________ I feel sorry for people who don't drink. When they wake up in the morning, that's as good as they're going to feel all day. -Frank Sinatra

03-24-2007, 02:34 PM	#52 (permalink)
Eeeraq Upright Location: Pigseye, MN	Check out this, if you have like, an hour and 8 minute and 53 seconds to spare, or so... http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...76767287&hl=en also http://www.stopscientology.com __________________ remeber that one time we partied all night? me neither.

03-26-2007, 07:20 PM	#53 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Ain't got the time Lessee if we can make anything else up and pretend it amounts to a universal truth! The donors must be capitalists hoping for salvation. What goes around comes around, if you hope hard enough. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

03-27-2007, 05:28 PM	#54 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:49 PM..*

03-27-2007, 07:51 PM	#55 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	If getting into heaven costs anything it wasn't worth the price of admission. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-01-2007, 12:52 PM	#56 (permalink)
Plaid13 I want a Plaid crayon	All orginized religion is a cult. Crazy myths people follow blindly because they need something to believe in. No matter how its done or why. Its whats been brainwashed into you at some point or another. From birth with a popular religion or when your depressed lonely or bored with most cults. You believe in something you wouldnt normaly believe in. If people want to have faith in a god thats all fine and good but dont do it because of what other people tell you. Do it because of what you know to be true yourself. If there is some all powerful god then it most likely understands you better then you can understand it. So why even try. if it was that important to god that you believe in it then it would of givin you some sort of proof and reason to do so.

04-01-2007, 06:22 PM	#57 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	[QUOTE=Mr_E] So I, personally, find pretty much any religion as somewhat dangerous in some way or another. () seems to be very insular, controlling, and opposed to free will. You have to buy your way up the ladder. The whole back story is freaking nuts. They're quick to oppose any who speak out against them. Sounds like elements of both a cult and a religion to me. QUOTE] Will anybody guess what this reminds me of? Apologies, Mr_E, but it fit so good. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-01-2007, 07:24 PM	#58 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	I will venture that Mr_E meant to generalize most religions and/or cults in the simplest and most frequenly hit-upon points of foundation, but I know what you are getting at BUGEYES, because, in America and the political world abroad, it would be this religion that is scrutinized upon most. ......And for those of you who still might not know what OCM is alluding to, it's the pre-dominant religion in the area of the Middle-East where the war in Iraq is still being fought; Islam, am I right, ourcrazymodern? __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

04-01-2007, 08:03 PM	#59 (permalink)
Baraka_Guru warrior bodhisattva Super Moderator Location: East-central Canada	Okay, my take on this is that Scientology is originally a sci-fi take on existing religions. Almost step by step, the "beliefs" of Scientology have some shades of Buddhist beliefs. When I read the summary at the top of the thread, I immediately thought that Scientology is nothing more than a rip-off and corruption of Buddhism. It sounds cool, but it should not be taken seriously. __________________ Knowing that death is certain and that the time of death is uncertain, what's the most important thing? —Bhikkhuni Pema Chödrön Humankind cannot bear very much reality. —From "Burnt Norton," Four Quartets (1936), T. S. Eliot

04-02-2007, 11:13 AM	#61 (permalink)
Jetée The Reforms Location: Rarely, if ever, here or there, but always in transition	OHHH, ourcrazymodern? That would seem to make more sense. Sorry. /Back to the issue at hand __________________ As human beings, our greatness lies not so much in being able to remake the world (that is the myth of the Atomic Age) as in being able to remake ourselves. —Mohandas K. Gandhi

04-03-2007, 01:19 PM	#62 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	L. Ron Hubbard wanted to help people (?) and make a little "money" at the same time. Understanding isn't that important, if belief will do. Then, give money! Would anybody like a little Kool-ade, now? __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-04-2007, 09:38 AM	#64 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:48 PM..*

04-04-2007, 10:41 AM	#66 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:48 PM..*

04-04-2007, 02:56 PM	#67 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	What is an open mind? These stories are all very strange. Comic books have nothing on the bible since it has most of them in it. Even the scientologists seem to be praising our species, when they can. All religions are cults. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-07-2007, 12:40 PM	#70 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	I have a little good news from St. Paul: Hope springs eternal. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-07-2007, 01:57 PM	#71 (permalink)
DaveOrion Playing With Fire Location: Disaster Area	.. __________________ *Syriana...have you ever tried liquid MDMA?....Liquid MDMA? No....Arash, when you wanna do this?.....After prayer... Last edited by DaveOrion; 04-07-2007 at 09:48 PM..*

04-07-2007, 03:35 PM	#72 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Here I sit hoping you'll rephrase that. Please? __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT

04-07-2007, 08:59 PM	#73 (permalink)
Brightwater Upright	I think it's pretty meaningless to debate whether Scientology is a religion or cult. Essentially, most of us who aren't Scientologists consider it a cult, while most of them almost surely think of it as a religion. Apparently some people think that the mainstream religions are equally stupid, but I would like to point out that in Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc, you don't have to buy your way through tiers to achieve salvation. I guess some people think that if they donate enough money to the church, it will get them into heaven, but I don't think this is true. Credibility with the church- any church- isn't necessarily credibility with God.

04-08-2007, 07:12 AM	#74 (permalink)
Ourcrazymodern? still, wondering. Location: South Minneapolis, somewhere near the gorgeous gorge	Uh-oh! Stick around, Brightwater. __________________ BE JUST AND FEAR NOT Last edited by Ourcrazymodern?; 04-08-2007 at 07:14 AM..

04-09-2007, 02:05 PM	#75 (permalink)
topcat1238 Upright	Scientology is neither a cult nor religion. It is a cusine. At the end of the night; it's just food... cuisine...sorry Last edited by topcat1238; 04-09-2007 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost