Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

KellyC · 11-17-2006, 05:44 PM

Quote:

[BREAKING NEWS]: Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
Incident occured around 11:30 p.m. in the Powell Library CLICC computer lab

UCPD officers shot a student several times with a Taser inside the Powell Library CLICC computer lab late Tuesday night before taking him into custody.

No university police officers were available to comment further about the incident as of 3 a.m. Wednesday, and no Community Service Officers who were on duty at the time could be reached.

At around 11:30 p.m., CSOs asked a male student using a computer in the back of the room to leave when he was unable to produce a BruinCard during a random check. The student did not exit the building immediately.

The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go. A second officer then approached the student as well.

The student began to yell "get off me," repeating himself several times.

It was at this point that the officers shot the student with a Taser for the first time, causing him to fall to the floor and cry out in pain. The student also told the officers he had a medical condition.

UCPD officers confirmed that the man involved in the incident was a student, but did not give a name or any additional information about his identity.

Video shot from a student's camera phone captured the student yelling, "Here's your Patriot Act, here's your fucking abuse of power," while he struggled with the officers.

As the student was screaming, UCPD officers repeatedly told him to stand up and said "stop fighting us." The student did not stand up as the officers requested and they shot him with the Taser at least once more.

"It was the most disgusting and vile act I had ever seen in my life," said David Remesnitsky, a 2006 UCLA alumnus who witnessed the incident.

As the student and the officers were struggling, bystanders repeatedly asked the police officers to stop, and at one point officers told the gathered crowd to stand back and threatened to use a Taser on anyone who got too close.

Laila Gordy, a fourth-year economics student who was present in the library during the incident, said police officers threatened to shoot her with a Taser when she asked an officer for his name and his badge number.

Gordy was visibly upset by the incident and said other students were also disturbed.

"It's a shock that something like this can happen at UCLA," she said. "It was unnecessary what they did."

Immediately after the incident, several students began to contact local news outlets, informing them of the incident, and Remesnitsky wrote an e-mail to Interim Chancellor Norman Abrams.

Link:http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958

I don't know much about how the police works, I DO know that the police mean business when on duty and it's foolish to get smart with them. And I know that they will do what is necessary to subdue the suspect. But given this case, is it necessary for them to do what they did? Would this be considered excessive use of force?

dksuddeth · 11-17-2006, 06:04 PM

be prepared to show your papers at all times. This is no longer America.

amire · 11-17-2006, 06:31 PM

Found a link to the camera phone footage on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E

_God_ · 11-17-2006, 06:33 PM

While I normally consider dksuddeth's points all too true or prophetic, in this case, I disagree on principle.

"This is no longer America" is correct. It was a college library, and asking for proof that a person is entitled to be there (as opposed to being some kind of freak stalking the college girls) is prudent. Any history of attacks on students at this institution, or its simply being in a bad neighborhood, would further bolster the idea that this policy was instituted due to one or more past incidents.

Leaving when you're unable to prove you belong at a college is not unreasonable. Waiting until the cops arrive is stupid.

We may never know the actual events, but this guy sounds like an asshat.

dksuddeth · 11-17-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _God_

While I normally consider dksuddeth's points all too true or prophetic, in this case, I disagree on principle.

and yet, after the fact, the student was proven to be a student after all. So what 'principle' do you stand on?

Quote:

Originally Posted by _God_

"This is no longer America" is correct. It was a college library, and asking for proof that a person is entitled to be there (as opposed to being some kind of freak stalking the college girls) is prudent. Any history of attacks on students at this institution, or its simply being in a bad neighborhood, would further bolster the idea that this policy was instituted due to one or more past incidents.

because we MUST sacrifice our liberties to be protected at all times, even if it requires an occasional tasing by the police, or even to have a few people shot and killed as an example to NEVER disregard a policemans authority. After all, they are the 'only ones'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _God_

Leaving when you're unable to prove you belong at a college is not unreasonable. Waiting until the cops arrive is stupid.

because you MUST prove that you belong somewhere, not like we mere citizens have any more rights anymore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by _God_

We may never know the actual events, but this guy sounds like an asshat.

why? because he stood up for himself? because he refused to abide by an idiot officers orders? because he didn't show his 'papers'? welcome to Amerika.

Xera · 11-17-2006, 07:11 PM

Did ya'll watch that video? the guy said several times he was leaving, he asked to be allowed to leave, the cops tazered him and then demanded that he stand up, an almost impossible act after a tazering. I wonder if the fact that the kid was Iranian had anything to do with the excessive force used.

Yes when you tazer someone that is actually complying just because they don't want you to touch them, which he had the right to request, it's excessive force. Is there a difference in how much a campus cop can get away with and a real cop? I don't live on campus and have absolutly no contact with campus cops most of the time, so I don't know.

n0nsensical · 11-17-2006, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _God_

While I normally consider dksuddeth's points all too true or prophetic, in this case, I disagree on principle.

"This is no longer America" is correct. It was a college library, and asking for proof that a person is entitled to be there (as opposed to being some kind of freak stalking the college girls) is prudent. Any history of attacks on students at this institution, or its simply being in a bad neighborhood, would further bolster the idea that this policy was instituted due to one or more past incidents.

Leaving when you're unable to prove you belong at a college is not unreasonable. Waiting until the cops arrive is stupid.

We may never know the actual events, but this guy sounds like an asshat.

regardless, unreasonable but physically harmless actions and being an asshat are NO justification for the use of weapons, "non-lethal" or otherwise. there is no way this guy could have been taken as a physical threat at any time. why did it have to go beyond arresting him and dragging him out the door?

Dilbert1234567 · 11-17-2006, 07:41 PM

This is getting silly:

The guy was in a private library, he was asked to show ID and he didn't it does not matter if he was a student or not, he did not have the identification and should have left when asked. He refused and waited until the campus police came.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xera

Did ya'll watch that video? the guy said several times he was leaving, he asked to be allowed to leave, the cops tazered him and then demanded that he stand up, an almost impossible act after a tazering.

He was Tasered on the low setting, I set up the Taser for my campus police at the campus I work at, and I tested it for them. it does not hurt, there is no real pain involved, its a constriction of the muscles, and its very disturbing, but the effects ware off quickly, you can get up after a few seconds of being Tasered on full, his was a light setting, he should have been able to walk. However if he had some medical condition this all changes.

He was asked to leave and he didn’t, if he had left as soon as the campus police came there would be no incident, they came and he still did not leave, he did not leave when they drew the Taser, or when they aimed, he waited... he was asked to leave and he didn’t, he’s an idiot and was asking for it, Once, Not 5 times. It was the taser, the Billy club, or mace / pepper spray.

Bottom line: he was asked to leave for a legit reason. He refused; instead of risking getting hurt themselves the campus police used the Taser to inspire cooperation. The question is did they use it to much, I think they did, but only an investigation will tell if they really did or not. They were not wrong to use it, but they may have been wrong to use it as much as they did.

dksuddeth · 11-17-2006, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbert1234567

This is getting silly:

The guy was in a private library, he was asked to show ID and he didn't it does not matter if he was a student or not, he did not have the identification and should have left when asked. He refused and waited until the campus police came.

when did a federally funded university library become 'private' property?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbert1234567

He was Tasered on the low setting, I set up the Taser for my campus police at the campus I work at, and I tested it for them. it does not hurt, there is no real pain involved, its a constriction of the muscles, and its very disturbing, but the effects ware off quickly, you can get up after a few seconds of being Tasered on full, his was a light setting, he should have been able to walk. However if he had some medical condition this all changes.

and by watching the video, you know this how?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbert1234567

He was asked to leave and he didn’t, if he had left as soon as the campus police came there would be no incident, they came and he still did not leave, he did not leave when they drew the Taser, or when they aimed, he waited... he was asked to leave and he didn’t, he’s an idiot and was asking for it, Once, Not 5 times. It was the taser, the Billy club, or mace / pepper spray.

Again, we see the 'just obey the police' and we'll all be ok. they are there for our safety and do no wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbert1234567

Bottom line: he was asked to leave for a legit reason. He refused; instead of risking getting hurt themselves the campus police used the Taser to inspire cooperation.

and here all along I thought the taser was used to subdue a suspect with non-lethal means, not as a compliance tool.

kutulu · 11-17-2006, 08:16 PM

Investigation my ass, the cops get to act like thugs and hardly ever get busted for it.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-17-2006, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

when did a federally funded university library become 'private' property?

campus rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/campus_regs/

3. All persons on University property are required, for reasonable cause, to identify themselves to, and comply with instructions of, authorized University officials acting in the performance of their duties. Authorized Representatives of a Registered Campus Organization may request identification of persons in the Organization's business meetings.

Library Rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/campus_regs/

The Library will refuse access to its facilities, resources, or services to anyone who disrupts the use of the facilities by others or is disrespectful to other library users or employees. People who are unwilling to abide by these regulations will be asked to leave, and those refusing to do so will be subject to removal by security personnel and may not be allowed further access to the libraries.

The rules of the campus say carry ID all the time. The officials asked for his id, he could not produce it, so he was asked to leave, he refused. He broke the rules, what is so hard to see about this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

and by watching the video, you know this how?

Because I do research:
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10325914/det...ss=la&psp=news

They did not shoot him with a taser, they used the metal prongs on the front. This delivers a small shock, not the full shock it’s capable of.

just to clear this all up, He was not shot with a taser, shooting with a taser involces metal barbs, he was taser with the prongs, it is not as bad as being shot with a taser.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

Again, we see the 'just obey the police' and we'll all be ok. they are there for our safety and do no wrong.

He could have left at any time before or during the confrontation, he did not, the police had no real choice, the only other choice was to drag him out. He could have kicked put, or possibly stabbed an officer, the man was clearly in the wrong with his non compliance. The owners asked him to leave, period.

Cynthetiq · 11-17-2006, 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dksuddeth

when did a federally funded university library become 'private' property?

It's private property for IDENTIFIED students of the university.

Having also gone to the libraries of UCLA as a teen, I know the signage that was posted around the campus.

If it's public property, then homeless people and all other non students have the right to be there. That is not the case.

LINK

Quote:

IV. USE OF UNIVERSITY PROPERTIES

A. GENERAL PROVISIONS

1. The University derives its basic authority from the State of California Constitution, Article I, Section 9. All pertinent federal, state and local statutes are in force on University property and may be enforced by authorized campus or off-campus agencies.

2. All persons on University property are required to abide by University policies and campus regulations (copies available in the Center for Student Programming, 105 Kerckhoff Hall, and the Office of the Dean of Students, 1206 Murphy Hall). Violation of University policies or campus regulations may subject a person to legal penalties; if the person is a student, faculty member or staff member of the University, that person may also be subject to University discipline.

Individuals on University property or in attendance at an official University function assume an obligation to conduct themselves in a manner compatible with the University's responsibilities as an educational institution. This means that all persons are responsible for complying with applicable University and UCLA campus policies. This includes but is not limited to the following prohibitions: no person on University property or at official University functions may block entrances to or otherwise interfere with the free flow of traffic into and out of campus buildings; obstruct or disrupt campus activities; engage in the production of amplified or non-amplified sound that disrupts campus activities; camp or lodge, except in authorized facilities or locations; engage in physically abusive, threatening or intimidating conduct toward any person; exhibit disorderly or lewd conduct; participate in a disturbance of the peace or unlawful assembly; use, possess, sell or manufacture narcotic or illegal drugs; fail to comply with the directions of a University official acting in the performance of his or hers duties; or engage in the theft or misuse of University property or equipment.

3. All persons on University property are required, for reasonable cause, to identify themselves to, and comply with instructions of, authorized University officials acting in the performance of their duties. Authorized Representatives of a Registered Campus Organization may request identification of persons in the Organization's business meetings.

4. The campus prohibits non-University commercial activities on campus except by special arrangement with the Office of Business Enterprises.

5. Commercial products may be distributed on University properties or at official University functions only after prior authorization by the Office of Business & Finance or the Associated Students of UCLA, as appropriate. University Units, Student Government, Employee Organizations, Registered Campus Organizations and Support Groups may, however, distribute material incidental to their purpose at their own meetings and programs.

6. Commercial support of student programs and activities or Registered Campus Organizations is not considered a commercial activity under these guidelines and may therefore be permitted, provided that the primary purpose of such support is to underwrite a student program or activity, as opposed to the promotion or endorsement of a commercial product. The student organization may publicly acknowledge such support but shall not endorse any commercial products or services. Prior to any solicitation, all plans for commercial support involving Registered Organizations must receive prior approval from the Center for Student Programming. The Center for Student Programming will consult with the Department of University Relations to ensure consistency with the University's corporate fundraising efforts. Written policies and procedures pertaining to student commercial support activities may be obtained from the Center for Student Programming (105 Kerckhoff Hall).

7. Ingestible material (food, drink, etc.) may be distributed at events on campus only in accordance with the Guidelines for Food Safety at Temporary Events issued by the Office of Environment, Health, & Safety (EH&S).

a. A temporary food facility permit is required to sell or give away food or drink on campus. Campus Organizations and Student Governments are required to have prior approval from the Center for Student Programming before applying for a permit from EH&S.

b No permit is required if all aspects of food service are handled by a caterer. Caterers must have valid health permits.

c. No permit is required if the event is limited to group members and invited guests.

d. When ASUCLA managed facilities are used, prior approval is required from ASUCLA Catering.

8. Registration of Voters: University Properties may be used for the purpose of voter registration. Such activity is restricted to grounds open to the public generally (as defined in these regulations) or as provided for in Residence Hall Regulations.

9. The name, initials, insignia, seal or address of the University or any of its offices or units shall not be used except for official or authorized University purposes.

The UCLA name and logo may be used in conjunction with their organization's name, but only on products limited for use by their members. All other uses must have the specific approval of the ASUCLA.

Pursuant to campus policy, ASUCLA has the authority to control all commercial use of the UCLA name. If a Registered Campus Organization wishes to produce or purchase a product bearing the UCLA name or logo for general distribution, as opposed to limited on-campus use, the organization must obtain the product from a UCLA licensed manufacturer. Such products must carry both the UCLA logo and the name of the Registered Organization. Registered Organizations may not authorize any third party to produce merchandise bearing only the UCLA name or logo, or authorize or produce items that combine the UCLA name with any third party name or logo.

10. No sign, poster, paint, chalk or ink messages may be placed, affixed or applied to the walls, windows, floors or other surfaces of campus buildings or structures, streets, walkways, utility poles, construction fences, trees or shrubbery, except as provided for in Section IV, D. and Appendix I.

Zar · 11-17-2006, 09:57 PM

The kid was definitely being a douchebag about the whole thing, and I don't have a ton of sympathy for him.

However, if the reports that the police tasered him 3,4,5 times are true, that's simply uncalled for. I was under the impression that tasers are supposed to be a non-lethal way to combat aggressive resistance, not teaching douchebag kids a "lesson."

The kid could have avoided the whole mess if he hadn't been such an angsty asshat, but there were far better ways for the police to deal with the situation. I'm interested in what follow-up investigations conclude.

Infinite_Loser · 11-18-2006, 12:26 AM

Normally I'd jump all over the police and put the blame squarely on their shoulders, but after watching the video on Youtube and I have to say that I place the blame solely on the student.

There have been times when I've had to leave certain areas of the school I attend because I'd left my ID in my dorm. Even though it's a major inconvenience, I realize that it's done to protect the safety of all the students who attend here. All the dickhead had to do was leave when asked but he refused. So let's look at the situation. You have an unidentified man on private property who refuses to identity himself and refuses to leave when asked. Would some of you have wanted the cops to ask the guy to leave and wait patiently until he felt like complying or would you have rathered them go Rodney King of him? The bottom line is that 1.) The guy refused to leave when asked and 2.) using a taser is the preferred to using physical force. The moron got what was coming to him.

Furthermore, did anyone notice that when the cops told him to stand up he replied with a prompt "Fuck you!"? That typically doesn't help one's case... And, you know, I also found it funny that he had enough in him to continue screaming "Fuck you!" to the cops instead of standing up as he was told. And yes, I've been tased before. Remeber when we were kids and we went around shocking each other? It sorta' feels like that, only stronger. It doesn't completely immobilize you and the feeling wears off after a few seconds. He should have been able to easily stand up; That guy's a pretty good actor if you ask me.

Edit: That guy should be ashamed for screaming like a girl.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 01:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

Edit: That guy should be ashamed for screaming like a girl.

hehe yeah...

highthief · 11-18-2006, 04:51 AM

I'm a person on the side of the police most times, after years of working with them in private security and having many police officers as friends; in this case, the TASER would, in most jurisdictions, constitute an excess of force as it does not appear to have been neccessary to get the student to leave.

Having said that, the student obviously could have avoided the whole incident and/or handled it better.

pig · 11-18-2006, 07:09 AM

I'm a little bit surprised that the no one got physical with the cops. That's really pretty stupid to pull in front of a bunch of students. I hope they all get get taken to court over this, above losing their jobs. If 5-7 cops can't take one student out of a library without tasering him 5 times and causing this kind of fiasco, they shouldn't be working in this environment. I can't believe a college student didn't run out of the library when told to by the campus cops at 11:30 pm....that sort of lathargical performance and mild authority rebellion must truly be singular - what a maverick! Must be the first time these guys had run into such a tricky and complex situation.

In short, pigglet's summary is "Fuck these guys - too bad no one handed them their asses on the spot."

Xera · 11-18-2006, 08:43 AM

pigglet you've taken the words right out of my mouth. I don't think I would feel very safe on campus at UCLA knowing that security can't peacefully handle a teenager disrespecting authority. How the hell did they get their jobs with that little actual skill in practice?

Regardless of how the kid acted, more than one tazering is unncessary unless there is fear of actual violence from the offender. The cops got mad and tazered from anger, and that is the line between right and wrong use of force. I've never been tazered, but I've been hit with a cattle prod before, it took a bit before my legs wanted to work after that.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 10:05 AM

For all of you that say the taser was not necessary, how would you get the trespasser off the property, you asked him nicely to leave. Seriously folks, he was breaking the law, and refused to cooperate with police.

There only real options were to pick him up and drag him out. Smack him with the Billy club until he cooperated. Or taser him till he cooperated. Billy clubs are always a bad choice. He could lash out if he was dragged out causing injury to the police and forcing the police to restrain him. tasering was an acceptable option. tasering 5 times seems excessive to me, but it may have been justified, we will only know that after an investigation.

Just some more information i can bring to the table, the taser they use at my college keeps track of the time and duration it is used. When they get back to the station, they plug it in and all the information is recorded. Hopefully they have something similar.

Carno · 11-18-2006, 10:12 AM

Wow. What a tool that kid was. His screaming like a little bitch was really annoying.

If I were a cop, I probably would have started clubbing him over the head just to get him to shut the fuck up.

pig · 11-18-2006, 10:48 AM

dilbert,

I don't know how they could possibly have handled this situation without tasering him. Truly, a conundrum fit for the highest minds to ponder. Yes, I know I'm being a smartass, but this shit really irks me. We've handled these situations for a long time now, without this kind of crap. The way they handled the situation only escalated it, blew it out of proportion, and is now bringing unwanted media attention to the school. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Yeah, two or three guys take him by the arms, escort him out and turn him loose or to the station for identification, etc. On the way out, he kicks over a fucking trashcan. Crap!!! EVERYBODY PANICThat would have been infinitely more difficult that this shit. Not to mention, in all seriousness, that all it would have taken is one hotheaded student or for this guy to have some close friends in the crowd and it could have turned really ugly for these cops. Are they going to taser everyone, or start shooting?

And yes carno, that would have definately helped the situation. You didn't say you're a Marine by chance, did you?

I mean, the kid probably was being a prick...sort of hard to tell exactly by the video, but it sounds like it from the articles. Just like about 70% of college students - testing their boundaries, rebelling against authority, being smartasses. If the campus police can't handle it more professionally than this, they shouldn't be working in that environment. It could have turned out much worse than it did.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

dilbert,

I don't know how they could possibly have handled this situation without tasering him. Truly, a conundrum fit for the highest minds to ponder. Yes, I know I'm being a smartass, but this shit really irks me. We've handled these situations for a long time now, without this kind of crap.

well we really haven’t, there is no good way to diffuse this kind of situation, it used to be handled with fire hoses, dogs, and pepper spray... the taser is a step in the right direction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

The way they handled the situation only escalated it, blew it out of proportion, and is now bringing unwanted media attention to the school. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Yeah, two or three guys take him by the arms, escort him out and turn him loose or to the station for identification, etc. On the way out, he kicks over a fucking trashcan. Crap!!! EVERYBODY PANICThat would have been infinitely more difficult that this shit. Not to mention, in all seriousness, that all it would have taken is one hotheaded student or for this guy to have some close friends in the crowd and it could have turned really ugly for these cops. Are they going to taser everyone, or start shooting?

There were many ways of handling it, some were better then others, this may not have been the best way, but it was the safest way for the cops, with little long term risk to the trespasser. it would have gotten much uglier if the police tried to drag him out, and he resisted physically, the police may not have been able to taser him, and had to punch him, the students may have then join in the fray.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pigglet

I mean, the kid probably was being a prick...sort of hard to tell exactly by the video, but it sounds like it from the articles. Just like about 70% of college students - testing their boundaries, rebelling against authority, being smartasses. If the campus police can't handle it more professionally than this, they shouldn't be working in that environment. It could have turned out much worse than it did.

I think they handled it well, not perfect, but still well, no one was hurt, they may have used it to much, but that will be known later when more facts come out. he was a prick, he was asked to leave, and he refused, he was asked by the campus police to leave, he again refused, after asking nicely, the only other option is force.

highthief · 11-18-2006, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dilbert1234567

For all of you that say the taser was not necessary, how would you get the trespasser off the property, you asked him nicely to leave. Seriously folks, he was breaking the law, and refused to cooperate with police.

The kid was leaving until the officers escalated the situation. If the kid was leaving, as appears to be the case, there was no need to taser him, regardless of attitude. They don't teach this in any police academy around here, believe me.

But these were school cops, right? The standard of training is generally lower for what, in Canada, we would call "special constables" than it is for real cops.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 11:39 AM

He wasn't leaving, that was the issue, he refused both the library staff, and the campus police.

roachboy · 11-18-2006, 11:51 AM

this situation--and much of this thread---is lunacy.

the idea that cops tazering this kid is in any way defensible is frankly beyond me.
even if he was really not supposed to be there, it is way way out of line.

but the fact is that this kid was a STUDENT.
AT UCLA.
he was a student who forgot his id.
dont you think that getting tazered by cops is a bit excessive as a penalty for forgetting your fucking id?

seriously folks, stop thinking about this through the mediation of those goofball tv cop shows that function to persuade you to think that every last action on the part of police officers is justified because they do them. OF COURSE you can make up some internal logic that would justify this but that you can make one up does not function to legitimate it. it just previews the cop's defense in the civil suit that should follow from this. and i would expect that the university would loose that suit if it went to trail--but the more likely outcome would be that it would get settled out of court and the kid shuttled off to another university somewhere because, like any university, what ucla is REALLY concerned about is its reputation.

so the kid forgot his id: for christ's sake, it would have been no problem to check his status--for example, most computer terminals in uni-libraries are password protected and you need to sign in to get on. if the kid did not have a uni id and password, how would he have been able to use the machine he was working on? the library has a circulation system--his name could have been searched and his status confirmed within a couple seconds. the fucking cops could have checked his status any number of ways.

this kid was not a trespasser--that entire line of jsutification is worthless:
he was and is a STUDENT AT UCLA.

not only do i hope that his family--or he--sues the shit out of ucla for this and that he gets enough money for a free education anywhere else he wants to go----i would hope that every last one of the cops who participated in this loose their jobs.

i am glad someone filmed this and even more glad that it is up on youtube.

tazering a student...."o but they are set on low".....jesus christ...what planet are you on?

sasKuach · 11-18-2006, 11:51 AM

I have to say the officers seemd pretty inept to me, and that may have been the cause for them over-reacting that way. I've seen much bigger tougher guys being thrown out of bars by much fewer people. An example would be my roommate who was tossed out like a rag by 3 bouncers when he got into a fight. That 5-7 of them couldn't handle that douchebag and had to resort to a taser is laughable. Then again, campus cops are usually pompous and arrogant most of the time anyway and lack any semblance of professionalism and tact present in even the most dimwitted police officer.

Infinite_Loser · 11-18-2006, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

but the fact is that this kid was a STUDENT.
AT UCLA.
he was a student who forgot his id.
dont you think that getting tazered by cops is a bit excessive as a penalty for forgetting your fucking id?

The guy wasn't tasered for not having his ID; He was tasered for not providing his ID when requested and then not leaving private property when asked to.

As my original question was ignored, I'll ask it again. What would you have rathered the cops to do since most of you seem to be against the idea of using a taser? If the cops had used physical force to remove him from the premises then you would have complained that they used an excessive amount of force given the situation. The only other option would be to do nothing, but that'd be stupid. As stated earlier, using a taser is preferred to physical force.

Edit: It doesn't matter if you're a student or not. If you can't provide your school ID when you're requested, then you can be asked to leave the premises. What I can't understand is how people are sticking up for this guy. He had an ample amount of opportunity to leave even before the cops arrived, and he even refused to leave when the cops asked him nicely. And it's funny because he might even be rewarded for being a dumbass.

Yay for America!

roachboy · 11-18-2006, 12:46 PM

Quote:

The guy wasn't tasered for not having his ID; He was tasered for not providing his ID when requested and then not leaving private property when asked to.

the question of the privateness of the property is irrelevant in this case because, like it or not, the kid was a student.
he or his family is shelling out a significant chunk of change for the privelege, and one of the benefits of that cash exchange is that he gets access to the facilities. period.

the question of his status could have been resolved VERY SIMPLY. resolving the matter is a no-brainer--that it does not seem to have occurred to anyone to check speaks volumes about the security apparatus employed by ucla.
none of this was necessary.
not a single aspect of it was necessary.

the questions you ask, infinite loser, presuppose a sequence of assumptions be held as binding that i think are entirely wrong.
to start with, you presuppose that the police action was legitimate.
i dont see that as even a remote possibility.
apparently, you think it is ok to tazer a student for forgetting an id card.
i think that is insane.
further, you make some kind of dreamland distinction between a tazer and physical force.
i do not know what you are talking about.
a tazer IS form of physical force.
and there is NO justification for anything like physical force being used in this context.

and this was a library.
you have university cops tazering a student in a library.
yay america indeed.
way to fucking go.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 12:56 PM

He had no ID, he is supposed to. Period. He was asked to leave because he could not be identified as a student, he did not, and he is a trespasser. Period. The law officials on campus asked him to leave, he did not, and he broke the law. He resisted, he was tasered with the light setting rather then dragging him out. He was not beaten, he was not assaulted, he was tasered, it is an uncomfortable experience, but it is not painful. If he had just left when asked, it all would have been over. He resisted, and that is wrong. If a cop tells you to do something, you do it, unless it is grossly wrong, then if you disagree with it, you complain later. This kind of passive resistance does not help, especially when you are clearly in the wrong. This student was clearly breaking the rules, and then the law.

No one said it was justified to taser some one for forgetting your ID. That was not the issue. The issue was he was asked to leave for breaking the rules, he refused, he was no longer welcome in the library for breaking the rules and since he refused to leave, he is a trespasser. Period.

Because you did not read the rules I posted earlier, here they are again, plaine and simple

campus rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/campus_regs/

3. All persons on University property are required, for reasonable cause, to identify themselves to, and comply with instructions of, authorized University officials acting in the performance of their duties. Authorized Representatives of a Registered Campus Organization may request identification of persons in the Organization's business meetings.

Cary ID with you, Period.

Library Rules:

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.saonet.ucla.edu/campus_regs/

The Library will refuse access to its facilities, resources, or services to anyone who disrupts the use of the facilities by others or is disrespectful to other library users or employees. People who are unwilling to abide by these regulations will be asked to leave, and those refusing to do so will be subject to removal by security personnel and may not be allowed further access to the libraries.

Toaster126 · 11-18-2006, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

The guy wasn't tasered for not having his ID; He was tasered for not providing his ID when requested and then not leaving private property when asked to.

Quoted for truth.

Also, these campus police are an actual police force. Their juristiction is the campus itself. So they aren't rent-a-cops, they're the real thing.

sasKuach · 11-18-2006, 01:44 PM

I think the distiction is this: Yes, he was *technically* resisting by failing to cooperate, but it's worlds apart from violently attacking officers or other students or damaging property. In that case, force would have been viable.

It seems like they could have just cuffed him and taken him away more tactfully. Hell, my other roommate was arrested just for standing around while police were arresting other people. He wasn't tased, beaten, or anything. They just cuffed him and tossed him in the car. Simple. Why was this drama queen given so much stage time?

And whether campus cops are real or not, I can tell you from experience that they are a little too big for their britches. They're bored and hence jump on an opportunity to get tactical.

Infinite_Loser · 11-18-2006, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roachboy

the questions you ask, infinite loser, presuppose a sequence of assumptions be held as binding that i think are entirely wrong.
to start with, you presuppose that the police action was legitimate.
i dont see that as even a remote possibility. apparently, you think it is ok to tazer a student for forgetting an id card. i think that is insane. further, you make some kind of dreamland distinction between a tazer and physical force. i do not know what you are talking about. a tazer IS form of physical force.
and there is NO justification for anything like physical force being used in this context.

No, I don't think it's okay to taser a student for not having his ID card. I would agree with you if the student hadn't been asked to leave numerous times prior to being tasered and/or if he wasn't given a chance to leave before being tasered. But the fact is that he had ample opportunity to leave the premises as he was told yet he refused.

You're on private property, you refuse to produce some form of identification and you refuse to leave when asked. Is it any wonder why he was tasered?

analog · 11-18-2006, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinite_Loser

But the fact is that he had ample opportunity to leave the premises as he was told yet he refused.

...and you refuse to leave when asked. Is it any wonder why he was tasered?

You are incorrect.

Quote:

"The CSOs left, returning minutes later, and police officers arrived to escort the student out. By this time the student had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack when an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, at which point the student told the officer to let him go."

He was already on his way out. I guess you missed that part. He may have refused to leave when asked the first time, but after they left he gathered his shit and was headed out. Whether or not he refused to begin with is immaterial when the point of the situation is he was on his way out when grabbed. Your argument is that he refused to leave, period. That is incorrect.

EDIT: Having watched the video, i'm surprised the students didn't mob rush the 5 cops. There had to be at least 30 or 40 there. Though at that rate, they were probably afraid those hotheads would have started shooting. I have nothing but respect, in general, for police- but people should not be cops, period.

roachboy · 11-18-2006, 02:53 PM

infinite loser: tell me that you are playing devil's advocate in this thread...

i have spent the a significant chunk of my life doing research work (you know, sometimes looking for stuff for research, sometimes researching books that look like they'd be fun, often alot of both) in academic libraries. i have seen lots of rent-a-cops wandering around asking students for their ids because their feet were on the furniture. i have seen things get a little testy and i have seen the campus cops get called in in some cases. in most cases, the campus cops have acted reasonably--this situation would have been nothing at all had the cops acted reasonably--check the kids identity against their own databases or with the library's circulation system--give him some annoying ticket for spacing out the id and that's the end of it. that would be the reasonable way to deal with this. but i have seen some campus cops be assholes---some university cops just resent the hell out of the students--and there is a way in which i understand that because i teach the same students--they can be really officious little jerks---BUT i have seen both types of scenarios unfold numerous times in a situation where the rules were THE SAME as at ucla. these rules are THE SAME in most urban university libraries, particularly after say 10 or 11 pm. the choice of how to treat these situations then rests with the cops. they could have approached the kid any number of ways.
they had choices about how to handle this--and they obviously made a really really bad choice in this case---there really is nothing you or anyone else can say that would justify using a fucking taser on a college student because he forgot his id card. nothing at all. so there is maybe no point in continuing the conversation, because fundamentally, it no longer is one.

essendoubleop · 11-18-2006, 02:56 PM

I heard the kid had a mental problem. Don't know if that changes anything but I would feel more guilty if I just tazered someone with a mental problem 7 times...

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 03:05 PM

you forgot the other side of the argument...

Quote:

Originally Posted by http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-cellcamera16nov16,0,4794591.story?coll=la-home-headlines

After repeated requests, the officer left and returned with campus police, who asked Tabatabainejad to leave "multiple times," according to a statement by the UCLA Police Department.

"He continued to refuse," the statement said. "As the officers attempted to escort him out, he went limp and continued to refuse to cooperate with officers or leave the building."

Witnesses disputed that account, saying that when campus police arrived, Tabatabainejad had begun to walk toward the door with his backpack. When an officer approached him and grabbed his arm, the witnesses said, Tabatabainejad told the officer to let go, yelling "Get off me" several times.

There are 2 different stories on what happened. Either way, he still broke the law. He did not leave when he was asked to; the police were called to apprehend him for breaking the law. He resisted arrest, and he was tasered... he should have left when asked; he was an idiot and did not.

http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/zippdf...r_Policies.pdf

jorgelito · 11-18-2006, 03:05 PM

Ok, I've been resisting this for awhile. I am a student at UCLA and rather well informed on the matter. I have two friends that were at the library when it happened.

First off, there was a stabbing on campus a few weeks ago, high noon by a person (who was not a student but "looked" like one, backpack, young, etc.). we've always had security issues on our campus by non-students, especially at night. In fact, one of the paths from campus to the dorms is named "the Rape Trail". So in light of this background, the campus police have a policy of checking ids etc as a matter of security. Our students routinely set couches on fire during finals week (not exactly safe behavir). The campus police certainly have their hands full, not to mention the serial rapist and serial killer we had a few years back.

The problem arose whe one of the officers put their hand on his arm to escort him out (not exactly unreasonable) and then he proceeded to flip out by screaming "don't touch me!!!". In short, he was not cooperating by any stretch of the imagination. This kid could have definitely posed some kind of threat, we don't know it at the time.

I am happy this kind of bad student element was removed from the premises and hopefully he will be suspended or something so that the rest of us don;t have to endure this type of asinine behavior.

By the way, there were 3 cops (blaqck, hisanic and Asian). Charges of racism are patently ridiculous here.

Dilbert1234567 · 11-18-2006, 03:12 PM

One more thing, the circumstances are not clear yet, if his story is completely true, he was leaving, he was not resisting, he gave them cookies and pie and complemented them on there beautiful eyes... the cops over reacted. If the opposite is true, he was armed with 3 assault rifles and a grenade, the cops under reacted. Bottom line the truth is somewhere in between. And until hard evidence comes out on what happened, no one knows.

analog · 11-18-2006, 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jorgelito

By the way, there were 3 cops (blaqck, hisanic and Asian). Charges of racism are patently ridiculous here.

Not that it matters, or has anything to do with race, but you've not accounted for the other 2 cops, both of whom were white (and clearly seen on the video). There were a total of 5 cops.

Infinite_Loser · 11-18-2006, 03:19 PM

It's a student's duty to carry his or her identification at all times. It's not the job of campus security to run checks on persons who don't have or refuse to hand over their identification. The entire situation could have been avoided if the guy would have just left as he was told (Certainly someone who goes to the school must know to carry his ID at all times?)-- Not at his leisure.

11-17-2006, 06:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
dksuddeth Junkie Location: bedford, tx	be prepared to show your papers at all times. This is no longer America. __________________ "no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything. You cannot conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."

11-17-2006, 07:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
Xera Crazy	Did ya'll watch that video? the guy said several times he was leaving, he asked to be allowed to leave, the cops tazered him and then demanded that he stand up, an almost impossible act after a tazering. I wonder if the fact that the kid was Iranian had anything to do with the excessive force used. Yes when you tazer someone that is actually complying just because they don't want you to touch them, which he had the right to request, it's excessive force. Is there a difference in how much a campus cop can get away with and a real cop? I don't live on campus and have absolutly no contact with campus cops most of the time, so I don't know. __________________ ~~^~<@Xera @>~^~~ "A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing." ~Erno Philips

11-18-2006, 12:26 AM	#14 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	Normally I'd jump all over the police and put the blame squarely on their shoulders, but after watching the video on Youtube and I have to say that I place the blame solely on the student. There have been times when I've had to leave certain areas of the school I attend because I'd left my ID in my dorm. Even though it's a major inconvenience, I realize that it's done to protect the safety of all the students who attend here. All the dickhead had to do was leave when asked but he refused. So let's look at the situation. You have an unidentified man on private property who refuses to identity himself and refuses to leave when asked. Would some of you have wanted the cops to ask the guy to leave and wait patiently until he felt like complying or would you have rathered them go Rodney King of him? The bottom line is that 1.) The guy refused to leave when asked and 2.) using a taser is the preferred to using physical force. The moron got what was coming to him. Furthermore, did anyone notice that when the cops told him to stand up he replied with a prompt "Fuck you!"? That typically doesn't help one's case... And, you know, I also found it funny that he had enough in him to continue screaming "Fuck you!" to the cops instead of standing up as he was told. And yes, I've been tased before. Remeber when we were kids and we went around shocking each other? It sorta' feels like that, only stronger. It doesn't completely immobilize you and the feeling wears off after a few seconds. He should have been able to easily stand up; That guy's a pretty good actor if you ask me. Edit: That guy should be ashamed for screaming like a girl. __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 11-18-2006 at 12:45 AM..

11-18-2006, 04:51 AM	#16 (permalink)
highthief Junkie Location: Ontario, Canada	I'm a person on the side of the police most times, after years of working with them in private security and having many police officers as friends; in this case, the TASER would, in most jurisdictions, constitute an excess of force as it does not appear to have been neccessary to get the student to leave. Having said that, the student obviously could have avoided the whole incident and/or handled it better. __________________ Si vis pacem parabellum.

11-18-2006, 07:09 AM	#17 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	I'm a little bit surprised that the no one got physical with the cops. That's really pretty stupid to pull in front of a bunch of students. I hope they all get get taken to court over this, above losing their jobs. If 5-7 cops can't take one student out of a library without tasering him 5 times and causing this kind of fiasco, they shouldn't be working in this environment. I can't believe a college student didn't run out of the library when told to by the campus cops at 11:30 pm....that sort of lathargical performance and mild authority rebellion must truly be singular - what a maverick! Must be the first time these guys had run into such a tricky and complex situation. In short, pigglet's summary is "Fuck these guys - too bad no one handed them their asses on the spot." __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

11-17-2006, 06:31 PM	#3 (permalink)
amire Crazy	Found a link to the camera phone footage on Youtube: http://youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E

11-17-2006, 06:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
_God_ Banned Location: You're kidding, right?	While I normally consider dksuddeth's points all too true or prophetic, in this case, I disagree on principle. "This is no longer America" is correct. It was a college library, and asking for proof that a person is entitled to be there (as opposed to being some kind of freak stalking the college girls) is prudent. Any history of attacks on students at this institution, or its simply being in a bad neighborhood, would further bolster the idea that this policy was instituted due to one or more past incidents. Leaving when you're unable to prove you belong at a college is not unreasonable. Waiting until the cops arrive is stupid. We may never know the actual events, but this guy sounds like an asshat.

11-17-2006, 08:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
kutulu Junkie	Investigation my ass, the cops get to act like thugs and hardly ever get busted for it.

11-17-2006, 09:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Zar Tilted Location: St. Louis	The kid was definitely being a douchebag about the whole thing, and I don't have a ton of sympathy for him. However, if the reports that the police tasered him 3,4,5 times are true, that's simply uncalled for. I was under the impression that tasers are supposed to be a non-lethal way to combat aggressive resistance, not teaching douchebag kids a "lesson." The kid could have avoided the whole mess if he hadn't been such an angsty asshat, but there were far better ways for the police to deal with the situation. I'm interested in what follow-up investigations conclude.

11-18-2006, 08:43 AM	#18 (permalink)
Xera Crazy	pigglet you've taken the words right out of my mouth. I don't think I would feel very safe on campus at UCLA knowing that security can't peacefully handle a teenager disrespecting authority. How the hell did they get their jobs with that little actual skill in practice? Regardless of how the kid acted, more than one tazering is unncessary unless there is fear of actual violence from the offender. The cops got mad and tazered from anger, and that is the line between right and wrong use of force. I've never been tazered, but I've been hit with a cattle prod before, it took a bit before my legs wanted to work after that. __________________ ~~^~<@Xera @>~^~~ "A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing." ~Erno Philips

11-18-2006, 10:05 AM	#19 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	For all of you that say the taser was not necessary, how would you get the trespasser off the property, you asked him nicely to leave. Seriously folks, he was breaking the law, and refused to cooperate with police. There only real options were to pick him up and drag him out. Smack him with the Billy club until he cooperated. Or taser him till he cooperated. Billy clubs are always a bad choice. He could lash out if he was dragged out causing injury to the police and forcing the police to restrain him. tasering was an acceptable option. tasering 5 times seems excessive to me, but it may have been justified, we will only know that after an investigation. Just some more information i can bring to the table, the taser they use at my college keeps track of the time and duration it is used. When they get back to the station, they plug it in and all the information is recorded. Hopefully they have something similar. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

11-18-2006, 10:12 AM	#20 (permalink)
Carno Junkie	Wow. What a tool that kid was. His screaming like a little bitch was really annoying. If I were a cop, I probably would have started clubbing him over the head just to get him to shut the fuck up. __________________ http://how-to-spell-ridiculous.com/

11-18-2006, 10:48 AM	#21 (permalink)
pig pigglet pigglet Location: Locash	dilbert, I don't know how they could possibly have handled this situation without tasering him. Truly, a conundrum fit for the highest minds to ponder. Yes, I know I'm being a smartass, but this shit really irks me. We've handled these situations for a long time now, without this kind of crap. The way they handled the situation only escalated it, blew it out of proportion, and is now bringing unwanted media attention to the school. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Yeah, two or three guys take him by the arms, escort him out and turn him loose or to the station for identification, etc. On the way out, he kicks over a fucking trashcan. Crap!!! EVERYBODY PANICThat would have been infinitely more difficult that this shit. Not to mention, in all seriousness, that all it would have taken is one hotheaded student or for this guy to have some close friends in the crowd and it could have turned really ugly for these cops. Are they going to taser everyone, or start shooting? And yes carno, that would have definately helped the situation. You didn't say you're a Marine by chance, did you? I mean, the kid probably was being a prick...sort of hard to tell exactly by the video, but it sounds like it from the articles. Just like about 70% of college students - testing their boundaries, rebelling against authority, being smartasses. If the campus police can't handle it more professionally than this, they shouldn't be working in that environment. It could have turned out much worse than it did. __________________ You don't love me, you just love my piggy style

11-18-2006, 11:39 AM	#24 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	He wasn't leaving, that was the issue, he refused both the library staff, and the campus police. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

11-18-2006, 11:51 AM	#25 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	this situation--and much of this thread---is lunacy. the idea that cops tazering this kid is in any way defensible is frankly beyond me. even if he was really not supposed to be there, it is way way out of line. but the fact is that this kid was a STUDENT. AT UCLA. he was a student who forgot his id. dont you think that getting tazered by cops is a bit excessive as a penalty for forgetting your fucking id? seriously folks, stop thinking about this through the mediation of those goofball tv cop shows that function to persuade you to think that every last action on the part of police officers is justified because they do them. OF COURSE you can make up some internal logic that would justify this but that you can make one up does not function to legitimate it. it just previews the cop's defense in the civil suit that should follow from this. and i would expect that the university would loose that suit if it went to trail--but the more likely outcome would be that it would get settled out of court and the kid shuttled off to another university somewhere because, like any university, what ucla is REALLY concerned about is its reputation. so the kid forgot his id: for christ's sake, it would have been no problem to check his status--for example, most computer terminals in uni-libraries are password protected and you need to sign in to get on. if the kid did not have a uni id and password, how would he have been able to use the machine he was working on? the library has a circulation system--his name could have been searched and his status confirmed within a couple seconds. the fucking cops could have checked his status any number of ways. this kid was not a trespasser--that entire line of jsutification is worthless: he was and is a STUDENT AT UCLA. not only do i hope that his family--or he--sues the shit out of ucla for this and that he gets enough money for a free education anywhere else he wants to go----i would hope that every last one of the cops who participated in this loose their jobs. i am glad someone filmed this and even more glad that it is up on youtube. tazering a student...."o but they are set on low".....jesus christ...what planet are you on? __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

11-18-2006, 11:51 AM	#26 (permalink)
sasKuach Tilted	I have to say the officers seemd pretty inept to me, and that may have been the cause for them over-reacting that way. I've seen much bigger tougher guys being thrown out of bars by much fewer people. An example would be my roommate who was tossed out like a rag by 3 bouncers when he got into a fight. That 5-7 of them couldn't handle that douchebag and had to resort to a taser is laughable. Then again, campus cops are usually pompous and arrogant most of the time anyway and lack any semblance of professionalism and tact present in even the most dimwitted police officer.

11-18-2006, 01:44 PM	#31 (permalink)
sasKuach Tilted	I think the distiction is this: Yes, he was technically resisting by failing to cooperate, but it's worlds apart from violently attacking officers or other students or damaging property. In that case, force would have been viable. It seems like they could have just cuffed him and taken him away more tactfully. Hell, my other roommate was arrested just for standing around while police were arresting other people. He wasn't tased, beaten, or anything. They just cuffed him and tossed him in the car. Simple. Why was this drama queen given so much stage time? And whether campus cops are real or not, I can tell you from experience that they are a little too big for their britches. They're bored and hence jump on an opportunity to get tactical.

11-18-2006, 02:53 PM	#34 (permalink)
roachboy Super Moderator Location: essex ma	infinite loser: tell me that you are playing devil's advocate in this thread... i have spent the a significant chunk of my life doing research work (you know, sometimes looking for stuff for research, sometimes researching books that look like they'd be fun, often alot of both) in academic libraries. i have seen lots of rent-a-cops wandering around asking students for their ids because their feet were on the furniture. i have seen things get a little testy and i have seen the campus cops get called in in some cases. in most cases, the campus cops have acted reasonably--this situation would have been nothing at all had the cops acted reasonably--check the kids identity against their own databases or with the library's circulation system--give him some annoying ticket for spacing out the id and that's the end of it. that would be the reasonable way to deal with this. but i have seen some campus cops be assholes---some university cops just resent the hell out of the students--and there is a way in which i understand that because i teach the same students--they can be really officious little jerks---BUT i have seen both types of scenarios unfold numerous times in a situation where the rules were THE SAME as at ucla. these rules are THE SAME in most urban university libraries, particularly after say 10 or 11 pm. the choice of how to treat these situations then rests with the cops. they could have approached the kid any number of ways. they had choices about how to handle this--and they obviously made a really really bad choice in this case---there really is nothing you or anyone else can say that would justify using a fucking taser on a college student because he forgot his id card. nothing at all. so there is maybe no point in continuing the conversation, because fundamentally, it no longer is one. __________________ a gramophone its corrugated trumpet silver handle spinning dog. such faithfulness it hear it make you sick. -kamau brathwaite

11-18-2006, 02:56 PM	#35 (permalink)
essendoubleop Psycho	I heard the kid had a mental problem. Don't know if that changes anything but I would feel more guilty if I just tazered someone with a mental problem 7 times...

11-18-2006, 03:05 PM	#37 (permalink)
jorgelito All important elusive independent swing voter... Location: People's Republic of KKKalifornia	Ok, I've been resisting this for awhile. I am a student at UCLA and rather well informed on the matter. I have two friends that were at the library when it happened. First off, there was a stabbing on campus a few weeks ago, high noon by a person (who was not a student but "looked" like one, backpack, young, etc.). we've always had security issues on our campus by non-students, especially at night. In fact, one of the paths from campus to the dorms is named "the Rape Trail". So in light of this background, the campus police have a policy of checking ids etc as a matter of security. Our students routinely set couches on fire during finals week (not exactly safe behavir). The campus police certainly have their hands full, not to mention the serial rapist and serial killer we had a few years back. The problem arose whe one of the officers put their hand on his arm to escort him out (not exactly unreasonable) and then he proceeded to flip out by screaming "don't touch me!!!". In short, he was not cooperating by any stretch of the imagination. This kid could have definitely posed some kind of threat, we don't know it at the time. I am happy this kind of bad student element was removed from the premises and hopefully he will be suspended or something so that the rest of us don;t have to endure this type of asinine behavior. By the way, there were 3 cops (blaqck, hisanic and Asian). Charges of racism are patently ridiculous here.

11-18-2006, 03:12 PM	#38 (permalink)
Dilbert1234567 Devils Cabana Boy Location: Central Coast CA	One more thing, the circumstances are not clear yet, if his story is completely true, he was leaving, he was not resisting, he gave them cookies and pie and complemented them on there beautiful eyes... the cops over reacted. If the opposite is true, he was armed with 3 assault rifles and a grenade, the cops under reacted. Bottom line the truth is somewhere in between. And until hard evidence comes out on what happened, no one knows. __________________ Donate Blood! "Love is not finding the perfect person, but learning to see an imperfect person perfectly." -Sam Keen

11-18-2006, 03:19 PM	#40 (permalink)
Infinite_Loser Junkie Location: Lake Mary, FL	It's a student's duty to carry his or her identification at all times. It's not the job of campus security to run checks on persons who don't have or refuse to hand over their identification. The entire situation could have been avoided if the guy would have just left as he was told (Certainly someone who goes to the school must know to carry his ID at all times?)-- Not at his leisure. __________________ I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me.