Student shot with Taser by UCPD officers
 

Link:http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38958


I don't know much about how the police works, I DO know that the police mean business when on duty and it's foolish to get smart with them. And I know that they will do what is necessary to subdue the suspect. But given this case, is it necessary for them to do what they did? Would this be considered excessive use of force?

be prepared to show your papers at all times. This is no longer America.

Found a link to the camera phone footage on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5g7zlJx9u2E

While I normally consider dksuddeth's points all too true or prophetic, in this case, I disagree on principle.

"This is no longer America" is correct. It was a college library, and asking for proof that a person is entitled to be there (as opposed to being some kind of freak stalking the college girls) is prudent. Any history of attacks on students at this institution, or its simply being in a bad neighborhood, would further bolster the idea that this policy was instituted due to one or more past incidents.

Leaving when you're unable to prove you belong at a college is not unreasonable. Waiting until the cops arrive is stupid.

We may never know the actual events, but this guy sounds like an asshat.

and yet, after the fact, the student was proven to be a student after all. So what 'principle' do you stand on?

because we MUST sacrifice our liberties to be protected at all times, even if it requires an occasional tasing by the police, or even to have a few people shot and killed as an example to NEVER disregard a policemans authority. After all, they are the 'only ones'.

because you MUST prove that you belong somewhere, not like we mere citizens have any more rights anymore.

why? because he stood up for himself? because he refused to abide by an idiot officers orders? because he didn't show his 'papers'? welcome to Amerika.

Did ya'll watch that video? the guy said several times he was leaving, he asked to be allowed to leave, the cops tazered him and then demanded that he stand up, an almost impossible act after a tazering. I wonder if the fact that the kid was Iranian had anything to do with the excessive force used.

Yes when you tazer someone that is actually complying just because they don't want you to touch them, which he had the right to request, it's excessive force. Is there a difference in how much a campus cop can get away with and a real cop? I don't live on campus and have absolutly no contact with campus cops most of the time, so I don't know.

regardless, unreasonable but physically harmless actions and being an asshat are NO justification for the use of weapons, "non-lethal" or otherwise. there is no way this guy could have been taken as a physical threat at any time. why did it have to go beyond arresting him and dragging him out the door?

This is getting silly:

The guy was in a private library, he was asked to show ID and he didn't it does not matter if he was a student or not, he did not have the identification and should have left when asked. He refused and waited until the campus police came.

He was Tasered on the low setting, I set up the Taser for my campus police at the campus I work at, and I tested it for them. it does not hurt, there is no real pain involved, its a constriction of the muscles, and its very disturbing, but the effects ware off quickly, you can get up after a few seconds of being Tasered on full, his was a light setting, he should have been able to walk. However if he had some medical condition this all changes.

He was asked to leave and he didn’t, if he had left as soon as the campus police came there would be no incident, they came and he still did not leave, he did not leave when they drew the Taser, or when they aimed, he waited... he was asked to leave and he didn’t, he’s an idiot and was asking for it, Once, Not 5 times. It was the taser, the Billy club, or mace / pepper spray.

Bottom line: he was asked to leave for a legit reason. He refused; instead of risking getting hurt themselves the campus police used the Taser to inspire cooperation. The question is did they use it to much, I think they did, but only an investigation will tell if they really did or not. They were not wrong to use it, but they may have been wrong to use it as much as they did.

when did a federally funded university library become 'private' property?


and by watching the video, you know this how?


Again, we see the 'just obey the police' and we'll all be ok. they are there for our safety and do no wrong.

and here all along I thought the taser was used to subdue a suspect with non-lethal means, not as a compliance tool.

Investigation my ass, the cops get to act like thugs and hardly ever get busted for it.

campus rules:
Library Rules:
The rules of the campus say carry ID all the time. The officials asked for his id, he could not produce it, so he was asked to leave, he refused. He broke the rules, what is so hard to see about this?


Because I do research:
http://dailybruin.com/news/articles.asp?id=38960
http://www.nbc4.tv/news/10325914/det...ss=la&psp=news

They did not shoot him with a taser, they used the metal prongs on the front. This delivers a small shock, not the full shock it’s capable of.

just to clear this all up, He was not shot with a taser, shooting with a taser involces metal barbs, he was taser with the prongs, it is not as bad as being shot with a taser.

He could have left at any time before or during the confrontation, he did not, the police had no real choice, the only other choice was to drag him out. He could have kicked put, or possibly stabbed an officer, the man was clearly in the wrong with his non compliance. The owners asked him to leave, period.

It's private property for IDENTIFIED students of the university.

Having also gone to the libraries of UCLA as a teen, I know the signage that was posted around the campus.

If it's public property, then homeless people and all other non students have the right to be there. That is not the case.

LINK

The kid was definitely being a douchebag about the whole thing, and I don't have a ton of sympathy for him.

However, if the reports that the police tasered him 3,4,5 times are true, that's simply uncalled for. I was under the impression that tasers are supposed to be a non-lethal way to combat aggressive resistance, not teaching douchebag kids a "lesson."

The kid could have avoided the whole mess if he hadn't been such an angsty asshat, but there were far better ways for the police to deal with the situation. I'm interested in what follow-up investigations conclude.

Normally I'd jump all over the police and put the blame squarely on their shoulders, but after watching the video on Youtube and I have to say that I place the blame solely on the student.

There have been times when I've had to leave certain areas of the school I attend because I'd left my ID in my dorm. Even though it's a major inconvenience, I realize that it's done to protect the safety of all the students who attend here. All the dickhead had to do was leave when asked but he refused. So let's look at the situation. You have an unidentified man on private property who refuses to identity himself and refuses to leave when asked. Would some of you have wanted the cops to ask the guy to leave and wait patiently until he felt like complying or would you have rathered them go Rodney King of him? The bottom line is that 1.) The guy refused to leave when asked and 2.) using a taser is the preferred to using physical force. The moron got what was coming to him.

Furthermore, did anyone notice that when the cops told him to stand up he replied with a prompt "Fuck you!"? That typically doesn't help one's case... And, you know, I also found it funny that he had enough in him to continue screaming "Fuck you!" to the cops instead of standing up as he was told. And yes, I've been tased before. Remeber when we were kids and we went around shocking each other? It sorta' feels like that, only stronger. It doesn't completely immobilize you and the feeling wears off after a few seconds. He should have been able to easily stand up; That guy's a pretty good actor if you ask me.

Edit: That guy should be ashamed for screaming like a girl.

hehe yeah...

I'm a person on the side of the police most times, after years of working with them in private security and having many police officers as friends; in this case, the TASER would, in most jurisdictions, constitute an excess of force as it does not appear to have been neccessary to get the student to leave.

Having said that, the student obviously could have avoided the whole incident and/or handled it better.

I'm a little bit surprised that the no one got physical with the cops. That's really pretty stupid to pull in front of a bunch of students. I hope they all get get taken to court over this, above losing their jobs. If 5-7 cops can't take one student out of a library without tasering him 5 times and causing this kind of fiasco, they shouldn't be working in this environment. I can't believe a college student didn't run out of the library when told to by the campus cops at 11:30 pm....that sort of lathargical performance and mild authority rebellion must truly be singular - what a maverick! Must be the first time these guys had run into such a tricky and complex situation.

In short, pigglet's summary is "Fuck these guys - too bad no one handed them their asses on the spot."

pigglet you've taken the words right out of my mouth. I don't think I would feel very safe on campus at UCLA knowing that security can't peacefully handle a teenager disrespecting authority. How the hell did they get their jobs with that little actual skill in practice?

Regardless of how the kid acted, more than one tazering is unncessary unless there is fear of actual violence from the offender. The cops got mad and tazered from anger, and that is the line between right and wrong use of force. I've never been tazered, but I've been hit with a cattle prod before, it took a bit before my legs wanted to work after that.

For all of you that say the taser was not necessary, how would you get the trespasser off the property, you asked him nicely to leave. Seriously folks, he was breaking the law, and refused to cooperate with police.

There only real options were to pick him up and drag him out. Smack him with the Billy club until he cooperated. Or taser him till he cooperated. Billy clubs are always a bad choice. He could lash out if he was dragged out causing injury to the police and forcing the police to restrain him. tasering was an acceptable option. tasering 5 times seems excessive to me, but it may have been justified, we will only know that after an investigation.

Just some more information i can bring to the table, the taser they use at my college keeps track of the time and duration it is used. When they get back to the station, they plug it in and all the information is recorded. Hopefully they have something similar.

Wow. What a tool that kid was. His screaming like a little bitch was really annoying.

If I were a cop, I probably would have started clubbing him over the head just to get him to shut the fuck up.

dilbert,

I don't know how they could possibly have handled this situation without tasering him. Truly, a conundrum fit for the highest minds to ponder. Yes, I know I'm being a smartass, but this shit really irks me. We've handled these situations for a long time now, without this kind of crap. The way they handled the situation only escalated it, blew it out of proportion, and is now bringing unwanted media attention to the school. Holy shit, who could have seen that coming? Yeah, two or three guys take him by the arms, escort him out and turn him loose or to the station for identification, etc. On the way out, he kicks over a fucking trashcan. Crap!!! EVERYBODY PANICThat would have been infinitely more difficult that this shit. Not to mention, in all seriousness, that all it would have taken is one hotheaded student or for this guy to have some close friends in the crowd and it could have turned really ugly for these cops. Are they going to taser everyone, or start shooting?

And yes carno, that would have definately helped the situation. You didn't say you're a Marine by chance, did you? :D

I mean, the kid probably was being a prick...sort of hard to tell exactly by the video, but it sounds like it from the articles. Just like about 70% of college students - testing their boundaries, rebelling against authority, being smartasses. If the campus police can't handle it more professionally than this, they shouldn't be working in that environment. It could have turned out much worse than it did.

well we really haven’t, there is no good way to diffuse this kind of situation, it used to be handled with fire hoses, dogs, and pepper spray... the taser is a step in the right direction.

There were many ways of handling it, some were better then others, this may not have been the best way, but it was the safest way for the cops, with little long term risk to the trespasser. it would have gotten much uglier if the police tried to drag him out, and he resisted physically, the police may not have been able to taser him, and had to punch him, the students may have then join in the fray.

I think they handled it well, not perfect, but still well, no one was hurt, they may have used it to much, but that will be known later when more facts come out. he was a prick, he was asked to leave, and he refused, he was asked by the campus police to leave, he again refused, after asking nicely, the only other option is force.

The kid was leaving until the officers escalated the situation. If the kid was leaving, as appears to be the case, there was no need to taser him, regardless of attitude. They don't teach this in any police academy around here, believe me.

But these were school cops, right? The standard of training is generally lower for what, in Canada, we would call "special constables" than it is for real cops.

He wasn't leaving, that was the issue, he refused both the library staff, and the campus police.

this situation--and much of this thread---is lunacy.

the idea that cops tazering this kid is in any way defensible is frankly beyond me.
even if he was really not supposed to be there, it is way way out of line.

but the fact is that this kid was a STUDENT.
AT UCLA.
he was a student who forgot his id.
dont you think that getting tazered by cops is a bit excessive as a penalty for forgetting your fucking id?

seriously folks, stop thinking about this through the mediation of those goofball tv cop shows that function to persuade you to think that every last action on the part of police officers is justified because they do them. OF COURSE you can make up some internal logic that would justify this but that you can make one up does not function to legitimate it. it just previews the cop's defense in the civil suit that should follow from this. and i would expect that the university would loose that suit if it went to trail--but the more likely outcome would be that it would get settled out of court and the kid shuttled off to another university somewhere because, like any university, what ucla is REALLY concerned about is its reputation.

so the kid forgot his id: for christ's sake, it would have been no problem to check his status--for example, most computer terminals in uni-libraries are password protected and you need to sign in to get on. if the kid did not have a uni id and password, how would he have been able to use the machine he was working on? the library has a circulation system--his name could have been searched and his status confirmed within a couple seconds. the fucking cops could have checked his status any number of ways.

this kid was not a trespasser--that entire line of jsutification is worthless:
he was and is a STUDENT AT UCLA.

not only do i hope that his family--or he--sues the shit out of ucla for this and that he gets enough money for a free education anywhere else he wants to go----i would hope that every last one of the cops who participated in this loose their jobs.

i am glad someone filmed this and even more glad that it is up on youtube.

tazering a student...."o but they are set on low".....jesus christ...what planet are you on?

I have to say the officers seemd pretty inept to me, and that may have been the cause for them over-reacting that way. I've seen much bigger tougher guys being thrown out of bars by much fewer people. An example would be my roommate who was tossed out like a rag by 3 bouncers when he got into a fight. That 5-7 of them couldn't handle that douchebag and had to resort to a taser is laughable. Then again, campus cops are usually pompous and arrogant most of the time anyway and lack any semblance of professionalism and tact present in even the most dimwitted police officer.

The guy wasn't tasered for not having his ID; He was tasered for not providing his ID when requested and then not leaving private property when asked to.

As my original question was ignored, I'll ask it again. What would you have rathered the cops to do since most of you seem to be against the idea of using a taser? If the cops had used physical force to remove him from the premises then you would have complained that they used an excessive amount of force given the situation. The only other option would be to do nothing, but that'd be stupid. As stated earlier, using a taser is preferred to physical force.

Edit: It doesn't matter if you're a student or not. If you can't provide your school ID when you're requested, then you can be asked to leave the premises. What I can't understand is how people are sticking up for this guy. He had an ample amount of opportunity to leave even before the cops arrived, and he even refused to leave when the cops asked him nicely. And it's funny because he might even be rewarded for being a dumbass.

Yay for America!

the question of the privateness of the property is irrelevant in this case because, like it or not, the kid was a student.
he or his family is shelling out a significant chunk of change for the privelege, and one of the benefits of that cash exchange is that he gets access to the facilities. period.

the question of his status could have been resolved VERY SIMPLY. resolving the matter is a no-brainer--that it does not seem to have occurred to anyone to check speaks volumes about the security apparatus employed by ucla.
none of this was necessary.
not a single aspect of it was necessary.

the questions you ask, infinite loser, presuppose a sequence of assumptions be held as binding that i think are entirely wrong.
to start with, you presuppose that the police action was legitimate.
i dont see that as even a remote possibility.
apparently, you think it is ok to tazer a student for forgetting an id card.
i think that is insane.
further, you make some kind of dreamland distinction between a tazer and physical force.
i do not know what you are talking about.
a tazer IS form of physical force.
and there is NO justification for anything like physical force being used in this context.


and this was a library.
you have university cops tazering a student in a library.
yay america indeed.
way to fucking go.

He had no ID, he is supposed to. Period. He was asked to leave because he could not be identified as a student, he did not, and he is a trespasser. Period. The law officials on campus asked him to leave, he did not, and he broke the law. He resisted, he was tasered with the light setting rather then dragging him out. He was not beaten, he was not assaulted, he was tasered, it is an uncomfortable experience, but it is not painful. If he had just left when asked, it all would have been over. He resisted, and that is wrong. If a cop tells you to do something, you do it, unless it is grossly wrong, then if you disagree with it, you complain later. This kind of passive resistance does not help, especially when you are clearly in the wrong. This student was clearly breaking the rules, and then the law.

No one said it was justified to taser some one for forgetting your ID. That was not the issue. The issue was he was asked to leave for breaking the rules, he refused, he was no longer welcome in the library for breaking the rules and since he refused to leave, he is a trespasser. Period.

Because you did not read the rules I posted earlier, here they are again, plaine and simple

campus rules:
Cary ID with you, Period.

Library Rules:

Quoted for truth.

Also, these campus police are an actual police force. Their juristiction is the campus itself. So they aren't rent-a-cops, they're the real thing.

I think the distiction is this: Yes, he was *technically* resisting by failing to cooperate, but it's worlds apart from violently attacking officers or other students or damaging property. In that case, force would have been viable.

It seems like they could have just cuffed him and taken him away more tactfully. Hell, my other roommate was arrested just for standing around while police were arresting other people. He wasn't tased, beaten, or anything. They just cuffed him and tossed him in the car. Simple. Why was this drama queen given so much stage time?

And whether campus cops are real or not, I can tell you from experience that they are a little too big for their britches. They're bored and hence jump on an opportunity to get tactical.

No, I don't think it's okay to taser a student for not having his ID card. I would agree with you if the student hadn't been asked to leave numerous times prior to being tasered and/or if he wasn't given a chance to leave before being tasered. But the fact is that he had ample opportunity to leave the premises as he was told yet he refused.

You're on private property, you refuse to produce some form of identification and you refuse to leave when asked. Is it any wonder why he was tasered?

You are incorrect.

He was already on his way out. I guess you missed that part. He may have refused to leave when asked the first time, but after they left he gathered his shit and was headed out. Whether or not he refused to begin with is immaterial when the point of the situation is he was on his way out when grabbed. Your argument is that he refused to leave, period. That is incorrect.

EDIT: Having watched the video, i'm surprised the students didn't mob rush the 5 cops. There had to be at least 30 or 40 there. Though at that rate, they were probably afraid those hotheads would have started shooting. I have nothing but respect, in general, for police- but people should not be cops, period.

infinite loser: tell me that you are playing devil's advocate in this thread...

i have spent the a significant chunk of my life doing research work (you know, sometimes looking for stuff for research, sometimes researching books that look like they'd be fun, often alot of both) in academic libraries. i have seen lots of rent-a-cops wandering around asking students for their ids because their feet were on the furniture. i have seen things get a little testy and i have seen the campus cops get called in in some cases. in most cases, the campus cops have acted reasonably--this situation would have been nothing at all had the cops acted reasonably--check the kids identity against their own databases or with the library's circulation system--give him some annoying ticket for spacing out the id and that's the end of it. that would be the reasonable way to deal with this. but i have seen some campus cops be assholes---some university cops just resent the hell out of the students--and there is a way in which i understand that because i teach the same students--they can be really officious little jerks---BUT i have seen both types of scenarios unfold numerous times in a situation where the rules were THE SAME as at ucla. these rules are THE SAME in most urban university libraries, particularly after say 10 or 11 pm. the choice of how to treat these situations then rests with the cops. they could have approached the kid any number of ways.
they had choices about how to handle this--and they obviously made a really really bad choice in this case---there really is nothing you or anyone else can say that would justify using a fucking taser on a college student because he forgot his id card. nothing at all. so there is maybe no point in continuing the conversation, because fundamentally, it no longer is one.

I heard the kid had a mental problem. Don't know if that changes anything but I would feel more guilty if I just tazered someone with a mental problem 7 times...

you forgot the other side of the argument... There are 2 different stories on what happened. Either way, he still broke the law. He did not leave when he was asked to; the police were called to apprehend him for breaking the law. He resisted arrest, and he was tasered... he should have left when asked; he was an idiot and did not.


http://www.ucpd.ucla.edu/ucpd/zippdf...r_Policies.pdf

Ok, I've been resisting this for awhile. I am a student at UCLA and rather well informed on the matter. I have two friends that were at the library when it happened.

First off, there was a stabbing on campus a few weeks ago, high noon by a person (who was not a student but "looked" like one, backpack, young, etc.). we've always had security issues on our campus by non-students, especially at night. In fact, one of the paths from campus to the dorms is named "the Rape Trail". So in light of this background, the campus police have a policy of checking ids etc as a matter of security. Our students routinely set couches on fire during finals week (not exactly safe behavir). The campus police certainly have their hands full, not to mention the serial rapist and serial killer we had a few years back.

The problem arose whe one of the officers put their hand on his arm to escort him out (not exactly unreasonable) and then he proceeded to flip out by screaming "don't touch me!!!". In short, he was not cooperating by any stretch of the imagination. This kid could have definitely posed some kind of threat, we don't know it at the time.

I am happy this kind of bad student element was removed from the premises and hopefully he will be suspended or something so that the rest of us don;t have to endure this type of asinine behavior.

By the way, there were 3 cops (blaqck, hisanic and Asian). Charges of racism are patently ridiculous here.

One more thing, the circumstances are not clear yet, if his story is completely true, he was leaving, he was not resisting, he gave them cookies and pie and complemented them on there beautiful eyes... the cops over reacted. If the opposite is true, he was armed with 3 assault rifles and a grenade, the cops under reacted. Bottom line the truth is somewhere in between. And until hard evidence comes out on what happened, no one knows.

Not that it matters, or has anything to do with race, but you've not accounted for the other 2 cops, both of whom were white (and clearly seen on the video). There were a total of 5 cops.

It's a student's duty to carry his or her identification at all times. It's not the job of campus security to run checks on persons who don't have or refuse to hand over their identification. The entire situation could have been avoided if the guy would have just left as he was told (Certainly someone who goes to the school must know to carry his ID at all times?)-- Not at his leisure.