10-25-2006, 01:03 PM | #1 (permalink) |
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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NJ Supreme Court: Same-sex couples guaranteed marriage rights.
http://www.judiciary.state.nj.us/opi...me/a-68-05.pdf
It's only available as a PDF, so I'll summarize: A group of seven same sex couples in stable 10 year plus relationships sued the state of NJ for refusing to issue them marriage licenses. The superior court issued summary judgment in favor of the state. This would have been for the purpose of passing the case up the line given that there was no factual dispute involved. It was appealed and the appellate court ruled 2-1 in favor of the state, with one judge amending the complaint to include two separate issues for consideration, the issue of rights, and the issue of the right to the name marriage. The NJ Supreme Court ruled today that the NJ state constitution provides that same sex couples in NJ are guaranteed the same rights as opposite sex couples, giving the legislature 180 days to decide whether to modify marriage statutes to include same-sex couples or create a new category. This part of the decision was unanimous, 7-0. Three justices dissented on the issue of the name, writing an opinion that the constitution does guarantee a right to marriage in addition to equal marriage rights. As it stands now, same sex-couples don't currently have the right to marry or be legally joined in a legally recognized relationship with the same rights, but they will in less than six months. Needless to say, I'm very pleased with this. The NJ Supreme Court was smart to have presented it in terms of a state constitutional issue, which means that there's no way for opponents to appeal it to the federal level. Three down, 47 to go. Gilda
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert Last edited by Gilda; 10-25-2006 at 04:31 PM.. |
10-25-2006, 02:40 PM | #3 (permalink) | |
Human
Administrator
Location: Chicago
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It's important to note that they allow the legislature to choose the NAME of the union, so long as it has all the same rights as marriage. From The Nation:
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10-25-2006, 03:47 PM | #4 (permalink) |
Mistress of Mayhem
Location: Canton, Ohio
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Congrats!!!!!! I am glad to hear the news.
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If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch. |
10-25-2006, 04:51 PM | #6 (permalink) |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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I am so incredibly pleased to hear that.
Now, if only my own state would wise up. Unfortunately, I live in a place that has already passed legislation against same-sex marriage. Ugh.
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10-25-2006, 05:01 PM | #7 (permalink) |
In Transition
Location: Sanford, FL (between Daytona and Orlando)
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Hrm... maybe I'll have to move to NJ... not to marry a woman, but just to support a state that would support that kind of union. =)
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Don't trust anything that can bleed for a week and not die. Oh wait, that's me... nevermind... you can trust me. |
10-25-2006, 05:03 PM | #8 (permalink) | |
Deja Moo
Location: Olympic Peninsula, WA
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10-25-2006, 06:23 PM | #9 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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Hopefully, this will get slammed down (no pun intended) when it hit the SCOTUS.
Also, in classic liberal fashion, this ruling comes 2 weeks before the NJ senatorial election. Timing has never been the Dems strongpoint and they once again have kicked their own asses
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10-25-2006, 06:47 PM | #10 (permalink) | |
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Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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I bet you blame the democrats when a bird shits on your car. |
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10-25-2006, 07:07 PM | #11 (permalink) | ||
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Location: Tobacco Road
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10-25-2006, 08:02 PM | #13 (permalink) |
Warrior Smith
Location: missouri
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And now a rant with some observations
this is the first time that i have noted a mention of the anti discrimination legislation- essentially, I have a problem problem with the fact that a lot of states are hipocrits, and will vote to give everyone equal rights, then turn around and say that they cant have that "marriage" one- a gay couple marrying another gay person will not effect me in any adverse way, and people poking their way uninvited into others private lives has always irked me also, every time that i see someone against gay marriage saying that it is not tradition, or sanctioned by god etc- I get damn pissed 1- marriage was not even a church sacrament untill the twelth century - The early catholic church WOULD not perform a marriage, as it was a civil matter, the purview of the STATE- they would bless a union, and recognise it as acceptable, which a lot of people cared a lot for, and in truth I am unaware of any documented case of a same sex union, but it was a seperate thing not carried out by the church- of course the christian god will not condone a gay marriage- it is not his JOB to, its the states. 2 why in a country that recognizes seperation of church and state is this even an issue- It seems to me that we are in the same place now as in the 1950's with the whole seperate but equal thing (which was a crock of shit then)- either you recognize that people have rights and are people just like you, or you do not- So the question that america is trying so hard not to struggle with is simple- are gays entitled to rights as are all other citizens or not-
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10-25-2006, 08:26 PM | #14 (permalink) | |
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Location: Chicago
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People who oppose same-sex marriages do so under the guise that allowing them to marry gives them "special" rights that others do not share. I'm trying very hard to find out what other group of Americans aren't allowed to marry, but I'm coming up short. Maybe there is a group I'm missing. Hell, I think even inmates on Death Row can get married. Let's face it - history will treat opposition to same-sex marriage in much the same way it treats the segregationists: as irrelevant and obsolete in their thinking but still vocal enough to influence public policy during their time. Of course, those who oppose same-sex marriage will scream and cry that equating this issue with segregation is comparing apples and oranges, but we can ignore that caterwauling because we are very aware that they're desperately trying to deflect attention away from their own bigotry, which they fail to recognize. Just because a blind man can't see the dirt on his clothes doesn't mean they are clean. The quicker the "right" can lament the death of their ignorant stance on this issue, the better off we'll all be. However, don't expect this to happen anytime in our lifetimes. We can dream, though. My only real question is: just what are they so afraid of, anyway?
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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses |
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10-25-2006, 10:14 PM | #15 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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The one thing I hate the most in the gay marriage debate is the word "Bigot". I've a question for you. Why is it illegal in the United States to practice polygamy or even practice incest between two consenting adults, even if they produce no offspring and both situations involve full consent from both parties? The answer is rather simple. It's because it goes against mainstream culture and, thusly, considered to be taboo. It's the same with gay marriage. It's not legalized, save for a few states, for the same reason that polygamy and incest aren't legalized. Though most people refuse to acknowledge it, the arguments for legalizing all three are formed on the same premise-- A universal "right" which affects no one but the parties involved is being infringed upon unfairly by the government. I've rarely, if ever, seen someone be called a bigot for opposing polygamy or incest, yet I often see people throw out the term when someone is opposed to gay marriage? Why? Yes. I know that some people will scream slippery slope, but these same people never get around to noting the similiarities much less answering the question. Anywho, why not just do as other states have done and put it to vote? Let the people decide what they want instead of having the government do it for them. Seems simple enough, wouldn't you say?
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 10-25-2006 at 10:19 PM.. |
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10-25-2006, 10:47 PM | #16 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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I know people don't like to be called bigots, but really, if the only reason you can come up with to condemn an entire class of people is that you're only conforming to some sort of cultural expectations then you are a bigot, and i mean that concerning homosexuality, polygamy and incest (provided all are consensual and no one is being exploited). |
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10-25-2006, 11:07 PM | #17 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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Sometimes there is a certain amount of exploitation going on, I won't deny that. However, I'm talking about the cases involving two or more consenting adults. In the United States, these are considered taboo and outlawed using the same reasoning by which gay marriage is outlawed. Therefore, what perplexes me the most, is how people can freely throw out the infamous "B" word without regards to the fact that they're more than likely just as bigotted as the people they try label.
I've said this before and I'll say it again. It's impossible for any society to appease every social group present. There isn't a single society which isn't/hasn't been built on social inequalities. Rather you appease the majority while (Trying) to protect the minority. Anyway, we could easily decide this debate. Instead of lawmakers and judges trying to regulate laws and set precendents, they should just allow the people to vote and decide what they want. If the majority of ballots say yes, then legalize gay marriage. If the majority of ballots say no, then don't.
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
10-25-2006, 11:09 PM | #18 (permalink) | ||
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Do you mind if I ask where you found this information I'm interested myself in the origins of marriage, I've done some google searchs and found a couple of interesting articles but without much detail on how far back marriage began, and in which way the ritual was performed? Quote:
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10-25-2006, 11:38 PM | #19 (permalink) | ||||
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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By a similar extension, the people who oppose gay marriage find themselves in a similar position to the folks who oppose interracial marriage, a position which is clearly bigoted. Quote:
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Even if we did vote, it wouldn't matter because i'm pretty sure that any kind of referendum, unless it concerns a constitutional amendment, is superceded by the constitution itself. Quote:
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10-26-2006, 12:03 AM | #20 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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10-26-2006, 03:35 AM | #21 (permalink) | |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
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What are you people scared of? Marriages/civil unions have been legalised in many western countries. There's been no horrible collapse of society, no rampaging homos seizing control, no sudden massive epidemic of gay children. Life goes on as before except without these pointless debates.
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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
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10-26-2006, 03:55 AM | #22 (permalink) | ||
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Location: Tobacco Road
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10-26-2006, 05:11 AM | #23 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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I know there are exceptions (my Rhino Times-humping friend NCB being a prime example), but by and large in America, homosexuality is acceptable. It's more acceptable now than it's ever been, and it's going to be more and more acceptable as time goes by. The general public opinion is: Gay OK. There are places where that's not entirely true, but if you took a poll of all Americans, that's the result you'd see. So claiming "culture objects to it" is simply inaccurate, and based, I suspect, in some outdated 1950's notion of "culture". Speaking only for myself, I sincerely hope that the day comes when plural marriage is legalized. I'm not sure I can say that for marriage among blood relations, but I recognize that it's entirely possible that there are people in incestuous relationships out there, and it works for them. |
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10-26-2006, 06:05 AM | #24 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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Brad Miller is mine
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10-26-2006, 06:27 AM | #25 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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Anyways, who are you to throw around such accusations? In that g.i. jane thread weren't you talking about how you think women are inferior and stupid or something along those lines? What a shock!! The guy who thinks a woman needs the constant protection of a man thinks homosexual behavior is deviant. Now, we've all seen your cute little button, but i have news for you: just because you slapped it on a button doesn't make it true. It does seem to be a nice way to take yourself off the hook for your own flawed perspectives. Go on, keep telling yourself that the only reason you get called a bigot is because your such an awesome debater. That's the kind of reasoning you only find in the people with the strongest grasp of logic and argument. If i could make a button, it would say "Liberal: any thing, person, or policy that NCB doesn't approve of." or "Liberals: personally out to shit on NCB's picnic." |
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10-26-2006, 06:38 AM | #26 (permalink) |
Pissing in the cornflakes
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I don't care really, its a non-issue for me, and can't see how this would be different than most liberal married heterosexual couples.
Two incomes, some bad artwork, zero kids. Really the country has more important issues to worry about than this.
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Agents of the enemies who hold office in our own government, who attempt to eliminate our "freedoms" and our "right to know" are posting among us, I fear.....on this very forum. - host Obama - Know a Man by the friends he keeps. |
10-26-2006, 06:41 AM | #27 (permalink) | ||||
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Never said that I though women are inferior. I just simply stated that I do not think that our society holds the values that reflect that women should be on the frontlines. Quote:
Hit the lights and lock up when you leave
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10-26-2006, 07:16 AM | #28 (permalink) | |
Location: Washington DC
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Sounds flawed to me. edit: But since you so crudely put it that way.... A GAO report from several years ago identified more than 1,000 benefits that apply to married couples but that are (or may be) denied to gay/lesbian couples in an equally committed monogomous relationship. It includes Social Security benefits, Veterans benefits, tax policy, employment law (eg. leave policies)...... the full report (pdf file) http://www.gao.gov/archive/1997/og97016.pdf
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"The perfect is the enemy of the good." ~ Voltaire Last edited by dc_dux; 10-26-2006 at 07:40 AM.. |
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10-26-2006, 07:49 AM | #29 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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10-26-2006, 07:52 AM | #30 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 10-26-2006 at 08:07 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-26-2006, 08:22 AM | #31 (permalink) | |
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Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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10-26-2006, 09:56 AM | #32 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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Religion is supposed to shape the moral and ethical guidelines of those who follow it. In the case of Christianity and unlike any other major religion (Well, except for maybe Hinduism, to a degree), it's moral and ethical guidelines are shaped by those who follow it. This is why Christianity is so divisive as a religion; No one conforms to a set of guidelines. Of course, the fact that people can shape it to what they want it to be is more than likely the reason it's so popular. Now, there is one thing which strikes me as odd. Most all of the major (And minor) religions of the world take a hard-nose stand against homosexuality. The one thing I can't understand is how people can come to the conclusion that Christianity condones homosexuality. Nearly every religion in the Mediterranean (sp?) region at the time of Christianity's creation banned homosexuality. Therefore, it'd be a stretch to assume that Christianity would differentiate from the norm-- Especially given the fact that it likes to "Borrow" ideas from other religions. [/endthreadjack] Anywho, just let the states decide for themselves. We're allowed to vote on less trivial matters, so why not this?
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 10-26-2006 at 10:06 AM.. |
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10-26-2006, 10:56 AM | #33 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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I think I could come to like New Jersey!
It was just announced to day the the NJ educational system turned down federal funds for sex-education programs that would have to be abstinence-only, and would have forbidden teachers to talk about contraception, among other things. Suddenly New Jersey sounds like it has a head on its shoulders! Now if they could only pretty up the Turnpike a little bit! This is the first of two pages. Notice the last paragraph in the section I quoted. Shockingly sensible! http://www.nj.com/news/ledger/jersey...760.xml&coll=1 Quote:
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10-26-2006, 11:35 AM | #34 (permalink) | ||
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert Last edited by Gilda; 10-26-2006 at 11:39 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-26-2006, 11:44 AM | #35 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: In the land of ice and snow.
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I say all this because i'm fairly certain that you think that you understand the bible, and what christ is all about. What i want to know is how you can be certain. I think that it also stands to reason that the notion that the bible is the final word on all things christian is a tad myopic. God spoke to people all of the time, if you believe the good book. God told people to do crazy things, things that totally went against the norms of their times. From what i've read about the bible, god doesn't really care about opinion polls, or what the people think god wants from them. What makes you think that your god isn't still actively trying to influence the world? |
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10-26-2006, 11:44 AM | #36 (permalink) | |
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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It wasn't until 1992, 24 years later that polls showed a majority of Americans approving of interracial marriage. Protecting the rights of everyone is more important than catering to the prejudices of any group, even when it's the majority.
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert |
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10-26-2006, 12:09 PM | #37 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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10-26-2006, 12:12 PM | #38 (permalink) | |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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10-26-2006, 12:13 PM | #39 (permalink) | |||||
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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In California we were Registered Domestic Partners, which, starting in 2005, grants all the same rights, privileges, and responsibilities as marriage within the state. RDPs were initiated in 1999, then upgraded in late 2004. For us, marriage is about declaring our love for each other and pledging to forever join with each other in front of our family and God, becoming partners in mind, body, and spirit. Keep in mind that there are two types of marriage, religious and civil. The laws and legal rulings address solely the civil version. Churches are already free to marry or not marry whomever they choose. ------------------------------------------------- Quote:
I'm curious, though. How is my lifestyle inferior to yours? Quote:
Not all liberals, as you seem to imply here, are atheists, agnostics or non-theists. Quote:
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert Last edited by Gilda; 10-26-2006 at 12:38 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-26-2006, 12:41 PM | #40 (permalink) | ||
Junkie
Location: Tobacco Road
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Given to MA middle school children, complete with homosexual bar pick up joints: Welcome to liberalism. Enjoy your stay
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couples, court, guaranteed, marriage, rights, samesex, supreme |
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