10-31-2006, 02:24 PM | #321 (permalink) | |||
Junkie
Location: Chicago
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"I can normally tell how intelligent a man is by how stupid he thinks I am" - Cormac McCarthy, All The Pretty Horses |
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10-31-2006, 02:30 PM | #322 (permalink) | ||
pigglet pigglet
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You commentary on the NAACP has nothing to do with the laws of our country, and I bet you could found the NAAWP if you wanted to. Assuming the NAAWP wasn't overtly racist, I guarantee you its legal, because the Klan is still around - and they are definately racist. I agree that money talks, but I don't think that's germane to this discussion. There are some awfully rich gay people around. I'd also guess that gays would fight for legal recognition of their marriages on the state level because it's a step in the inevitable process of national legalization. I also agree that we don't have many rights, as American citizens, that we think we do and should have. I see that as a problem. I'm comfortable with people having more rights, pretty much all the time, unless there is a very good reason to curtail them. Perhaps you are not. That's a different discussion. But I don't think that its germane to this discussion. I am curious as what is it about gay marriage that scares you, and why do you feel it drags your marriage through the mud? I'm not married, but if I do get married, I can't see how anyone else relationship will affect the importance of my own. All the meaning of that relationship comes from the couple involved and what they put into it, as far as I understand. Quote:
I sort of wish I had a lesbian sister, and then she used my sperm to impregnate her wife. I could then brag that I'd knocked up my sister's wife. That would be so Alabama Man.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 10-31-2006 at 02:40 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-31-2006, 02:51 PM | #323 (permalink) | |||||||||||
32 flavors and then some
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It happens with some lesbian couples. Grace and I didn't go that route because it made my brother a little uncomfortable and I really don't care about having a genetic relationship with my children. I think it's probably rare for gay male couples. Those I know with kids have adopted or have a child from a previous relationship. Quote:
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert Last edited by Gilda; 10-31-2006 at 03:05 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-31-2006, 03:08 PM | #324 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
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Unlike, I'd wager, the anti-gay proponents in this thread, I actually know several gay people. I'm friends with them, including several in very stable, committed relationships. It would make a BIG difference in their lives to have the legal status that a married couple enjoys. And since I care about them, it would make a big difference in my life for them to have that. How is my day-to-day living tangibly impacted by it (beyond the intangible impact of being happy for my friends)? Maybe not much. But given that I_L has just demonstrated that nobody's who's not personally impacted can say it makes that much difference to them, why not do the thing that's more in keeping with the spirit of what our forebears fought and died for--life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for EVERY American? |
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10-31-2006, 03:38 PM | #325 (permalink) | ||||||
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Simply because I oppose gay marriage doesn't mean that I have a problem associating or making friends with homosexuals. Quote:
By the way, our forefathers were bigots and slave-owners (In case you didn't know).
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. Last edited by Infinite_Loser; 10-31-2006 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost |
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10-31-2006, 03:49 PM | #326 (permalink) |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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I just want to point out, I_L, your last post was a complete non-response to my post that preceded it. As far as responding to the points I was making, your answer was basically content-free.
I repeat my bottom line: What's the problem with choosing kindness and acceptance and inclusiveness? I don't get it at all. |
10-31-2006, 03:54 PM | #327 (permalink) |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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There's nothing wrong with showing kindness towards others and accepting them as indivuduals, but simply because you're accepting of people doesn't mean you have to be accepting of their practices.
And that's the bottom line.
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
10-31-2006, 03:55 PM | #328 (permalink) | |||
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert |
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10-31-2006, 04:13 PM | #329 (permalink) | |||||||
pigglet pigglet
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Yes, they are statistically a small portion of heterosexual marriages. We've already established that gay people are a small percentage of our population. Quote:
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edit: I just wanted to reiterate Gilda's point: gay people can and are having kids right and left. To pick up an earlier point that I think we were discussing primarily with Ustwo concerning homosexuality and population control: I personally feel that people may be acted on by social pressures (much like game theory stuff, as far as I understand it) that may result in an increase in a tendency towards homosexual behavior, which could be considered something of a natural form of population control. However, this affect would be probably fairly small, due to the small percentage of homosexuals and the fact that we have more than just our instictual level of existance. Thus although in a biological vacuum a gay couple can't have children, there are obviously ways for them to overcome this limitation. And the whole point is sort of irrelevant to gay marriage, but I personally find it interesting to muse about.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style Last edited by pig; 10-31-2006 at 04:18 PM.. |
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10-31-2006, 04:52 PM | #330 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
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10-31-2006, 04:55 PM | #331 (permalink) |
Mistress of Mayhem
Location: Canton, Ohio
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Once again I am reminding everyone that on page 6 I posted the 10 definitions of marriage from the dictionary and not one of them mentioned a single syllable about children or having them. I will repost for reference.
marriage Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[mar-ij] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. the social institution under which a man and woman establish their decision to live as husband and wife by legal commitments, religious ceremonies, etc. 2. the state, condition, or relationship of being married; wedlock: a happy marriage. 3. the legal or religious ceremony that formalizes the decision of a man and woman to live as husband and wife, including the accompanying social festivities: to officiate at a marriage. 4. a relationship in which two people have pledged themselves to each other in the manner of a husband and wife, without legal sanction: trial marriage; homosexual marriage. 5. any close or intimate association or union: the marriage of words and music in a hit song. 6. a formal agreement between two companies or enterprises to combine operations, resources, etc., for mutual benefit; merger. 7. a blending or matching of different elements or components: The new lipstick is a beautiful marriage of fragrance and texture. 8. Cards. a meld of the king and queen of a suit, as in pinochle. Compare royal marriage. 9. a piece of antique furniture assembled from components of two or more authentic pieces. 10. Obsolete. the formal declaration or contract by which act a man and a woman join in wedlock. I am particularly fond of #4 and #6. Note not one of the above definitions say anything about children.
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If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Minds are like parachutes, they function best when open. It`s Easier to Change a Condom Than a Diaper Yes, the rumors are true... I actually AM a Witch. |
10-31-2006, 04:57 PM | #332 (permalink) |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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INCIDENTALLY! There's this process called Ovular Merging. Google it. It's still several years off in humans, but it's been done successfully in mice. Two ova are manipulated to produce a viable zygote. Only female offspring can be created. Perfectly healthy adult female mice exist in the world right now that were biologically parented by two female mice.
So... it's just a matter of time until technology rains on the "gay couples can't have kids" parade. At that point, what, we'll allow lesbian marriage but not gay men to marry? Because once they can have children together, then lesbians will have satisfied the requirement for marriage, right? I mean, that is what marriage is about, no? |
10-31-2006, 05:04 PM | #333 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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I'm going to remind everyone that I secretly want to knock up my theoretical lesbian sister's wife.
Seriously, crap - I don't have anything serious to say right now. I should probably delete this post, but this entire thread is becoming a mockery of discussion on this subject. I really want to know what compelling interest the state could possibly have in keeping gay marriage illegal, I see it as the only relevant question any more on this topic, and its the one aspect that the critics aren't answering. There have been about fifteen requests for a logical explanation of that one point. Aside from that, as far as I can tell, every other post against gay marriage breaks down to 1. I don't like it. 2. A lot of other societies didn't let gay people get married. Hell, they used to beat 'em with sticks!!! 3. It's an abomination against my version of God, 4. Well, in a theretically isolated space, they can't make babies!!! 5. There's not a lot of them anyways, I don't wanna change or 6. Seriously, I really don't fucking like it. None of those provide a legal grounds to maintain that gay marriage should be illegal. That's the whole enchilada.
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
10-31-2006, 05:18 PM | #334 (permalink) | |
Walking is Still Honest
Location: Seattle, WA
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I don't buy the idea that considering homosexual relations sinful is automatic bigotry. edit: It does appear to be a case of bigotry with IL - unless he can start explaining himself better (IL, look to pigglet's request above) - but I'm not about to accept it as an absolute. Sexual orientation's only one aspect of identity, anyway. What's stopping IL from tolerating (or not tolerating) one aspect and accepting others?
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I wonder if we're stuck in Rome. Last edited by FoolThemAll; 10-31-2006 at 05:25 PM.. |
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10-31-2006, 06:14 PM | #335 (permalink) |
comfortably numb...
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Location: upstate
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Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain Ev'rybody knows That Baby's got new clothes But lately I see her ribbons and her bows Have fallen from her curls She takes just like a woman, yes she does She makes love just like a woman, yes she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. Queen Mary, she's my friend Yes, I believe I'll go see her again Nobody has to guess That Baby can't be blessed Till she finally sees that she's like all the rest With her fog, her amphetamine and her pearls She takes just like a woman, yes she does She makes love just like a woman, yes she does And she aches just like a woman But she breaks just like a little girl. It's was raining from the first And I was dying there of thirst So I came in here And your long-time curse hurts But what's worse Is this pain in here I can't stay in here Ain't it clear that. I just can't fit Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit When we meet again Introduced as friends Please don't let on that you knew me when I was hungry and it was your world Ah, you fake just like a woman, yes you do You make love just like a woman, yes you do Then you ache just like a woman But you break just like a little girl.
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it. |
10-31-2006, 06:43 PM | #337 (permalink) | |
comfortably numb...
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Location: upstate
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"We were wrong, terribly wrong. (We) should not have tried to fight a guerrilla war with conventional military tactics against a foe willing to absorb enormous casualties...in a country lacking the fundamental political stability necessary to conduct effective military and pacification operations. It could not be done and it was not done." - Robert S. McNamara ----------------------------------------- "We will take our napalm and flame throwers out of the land that scarcely knows the use of matches... We will leave you your small joys and smaller troubles." - Eugene McCarthy in "Vietnam Message" ----------------------------------------- never wrestle with a pig. you both get dirty; the pig likes it. |
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10-31-2006, 08:03 PM | #338 (permalink) | |
Junkie
Location: Lake Mary, FL
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I believe in equality; Everyone is equally inferior to me. |
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11-01-2006, 01:52 AM | #339 (permalink) | |
C'mon, just blow it.
Location: Perth, Australia
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"'There's a tendency among the press to attribute the creation of a game to a single person,' says Warren Spector, creator of Thief and Deus Ex." -- From an IGN game review. |
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11-01-2006, 05:28 AM | #340 (permalink) | |
Darth Papa
Location: Yonder
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By the way, I've got no problem with somebody who believes as a matter of their faith or their morals or their upbringing or whatever that gay marriage is wrong. That's completely unassailable, as far as I'm concerned. Policy shouldn't be based on such things, but people have every right to believe that. |
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11-01-2006, 10:59 AM | #341 (permalink) | |
32 flavors and then some
Location: Out on a wire.
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There's probably a gay rights organization somewhere in your area you can join. They're almost always happy to have straight allies.
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I'm against ending blackness. I believe that everyone has a right to be black, it's a choice, and I support that. ~Steven Colbert |
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11-02-2006, 08:09 AM | #342 (permalink) | ||
Upright
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I'd just like to chime in with a giant 'who cares', this is such a non-issue, what does it matter what people do when it never affects you or anyone else?
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11-05-2006, 10:34 AM | #343 (permalink) |
pigglet pigglet
Location: Locash
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Sooo.... any compelling interest for the state to maintain illegal status of homosexual marriage? Thank God SC has an Amendment (Amendment #1 no less) on the ballot so that we can not only deny gay people the eventual right to marriage, but all same-sex benefits as well. That's totally awesome!!!
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You don't love me, you just love my piggy style |
05-15-2008, 12:00 PM | #344 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/p...,6998803.story
The California Supreme Court has overturned the ban on gay marriage. This is a victory for civil rights. |
05-15-2008, 12:24 PM | #345 (permalink) | |
Kick Ass Kunoichi
Location: Oregon
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If I am not better, at least I am different. --Jean-Jacques Rousseau |
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05-15-2008, 12:31 PM | #346 (permalink) |
... a sort of licensed troubleshooter.
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I'm GLAAD myself. Nyuk, nyuk.
But seriously, this is quite the big deal. So long as the ballot measure for November fails, California will remain an unsegregated state so far as equal rights for heterosexual and homosexual people. This is a step in the right direction, and I'm very proud that it's happening in my home state. |
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couples, court, guaranteed, marriage, rights, samesex, supreme |
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