Jinn

In the interests of being fair, did the POLICE OFFICERS LOOTING WALMART IN THIS VIDEO, http://www.metacafe.com/watch/31299/..._be_tolerated/

recieve 15 years in prison? Somehow, I bet you they didn't.

Still fair?

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Carno

Firing squad.

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Gatorade Frost

They deserve 15 years for it. Not doing their jobs and looting on top of that. They whole heartedly deserve 15 years in prison and to lose their job.

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Emo Philips

Carno

No, firing squad.

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Jinn

My point is that it would be ridiculous to assign ANY of them such penalties, considering the necessity and universal "acceptance" even by police officers..

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laconic1

Fifteen years! FIFTEEN YEARS! Unless I missed something in the article this wasn't a violent crime, these people didn't hold up the place at gunpoint, how on earth is a fifteen year sentence for this crime justified? I like to think I believe in being tough on crime but this is ridiculous! I can't see justifying more than five years in prison for pretty much any nonviolent crime. Use a weapon, injure, kill, or threaten a persons life or well being, then yeah fifteen years is good. While it is wrong to help yourself to someone else's property there has to be a punishment commensurate with the crime. Now I could see three to five years for this crime, but fifteen years? Make the punishment fit the crime, this doesn't come close to fitting.
I don't care to be spending that much tax money on prisons to house people for ridiculously excessive amounts of time for things like this. Save it for the violent criminals.

Gatorade Frost

I think this pulls in the "What's popular isn't always right" concept.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Toaster126

Because, to my knowledge, it isn't on the books. If there is some statute that doubles fines\time served during national emergencies, then educate me and I'll rethink my opinion. Until I see that, it's just some attention whoring judge trying to make a stand for something in a wrong manner.

There has always been this class divide for crimes and consequences. And I think as long as we have that divide, it will continue.

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ktspktsp

This is insane. You have about a massive breakdown of the social system and its rule during/after the storm, and then you inflict such long sentences on people who commit minor crimes in that time? I mean, we're not talking about violent crime here. When everybody is looting, taking a handful of people and giving them such hard sentences is ludicrous.

By the way, I'm not saying that there should or shouldn't be a punishment in that case. Only that, if there is a punishment, it sure as hell shouldn't be 15 years in jail.

Seaver

It may not be in the books, but if it's under the maximum penalties permitted than it's perfectly legal.

maleficent

why is a "massive breakfown of the social system" an excuse for anything?

Not everyone was looting... just a handful of people.

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lindalove

I understand the first statement about stealing baby goods (so long as they do indeed have a child), but I can't bring myself to understand the latter... boosting stereos and iPods is clearly an attempt at making money down the road. I'm sure the same could be argued for booze, but it's just a drink... a liquid... something that could easily be broken, go bad, or made worthless by not being taken care of properly (see: hurricane time and conditions). Also, let's not forget that I'm sure many, many people at that time just wanted a drink. I know that's how my family were during the hurricanes that hit Florida.

Ustwo

They were convicted of attempting to leave the grocery with 27 bottles of liquor and wine, six cases of beer and one case of wine coolers, six days after Katrina made landfall.

They SURE were thirsty!

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cookmo

You are crackin me up, first good belly laugh all day!!!!

analog

No sympathy for such lowlife opportunistic thieves. If it was an essential of life like water, bread, baby needs, that's survival. You can't fault people for getting the basics.

But all the rest? No sympathy for their 15 year sentence. Although, I might be happy with a 5 year sentence and some ridiculously huge number of public service hours. A number big enough that would take several years to work off.

Beer goes flat if you shake it too much, or if it's REALLY old, but that's it. Liquor doesn't "go bad". No one steals alcohol because they're thirsty, especially not in the huge amount that they stole.

And you know... if they came out of the store looking fucked up and devastated like everyone else, and had a single bottle of something, I doubt most people would care. The person just wants to go hide in a bottle for a little bit. Maybe his whole family is dead. But these people stole a TON of stuff.

Let them rot.

Toaster126

I wasn't saying it didn't have legal basis. Of course the judge isn't making sentences up. I'm saying the judge is not using sentencing discression as they should.

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Carno

15 years is absolutely insane.

Do you people realize just how long 15 years is?? For stealing alcohol?

Nobody gets 15 years when they steal liquor during a riot.

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Gilda

Stealing luxury items like alcohol doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and I do think they deserve to be punished, but I also think 15 years is overdoing it.

Gilda

3Z3VH

Everyone who says "15 years is too much"...

The judge was trying to make an example of them to discourage this behaviour in the future. Do you HONESTLY believe that these people will ACTUALLY serve all 15 years and not get an early release ?

They will be released within the year on good behavior and maybe a probationary period thereafter. The sentence is just there to show people that what those people did was deplorable, and deserves no mercy.

And honestly... if you are caught red-handed commiting a crime that you KNOW is against the law, how can ANY sentence be excessive ? You knowingly, and willingly commited a felony. Why should anyone give you ANY sympathy. It's not like they could have been framed or that they didn't realise what they were doing.

Carno

Duh, of course they are not going to serve all 15 years... But still, putting a tag of 15 years on the crime of stealing liquor is fucking bogus. Lame as hell.

What? What if the judge had sentenced them to death? That wouldn't have been excessive? Do you think about what you're typing?

What if people stole food to survive? They KNOWINGLY committed a felony. Should they also get 15 years in prison, because they committed a crime?

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flstf

I would like the sentencing for non-violent theft more in line with the amount slolen. Steal a few hundred thousand via insider trading etc.. and get something like 10 years, steal a few hundred via looting etc..and get something like 90 days. Also have the thiefs make restitution and pay heavy fines of some multiple of what they stole.

I think sentencing should be a lot harder on the wealthy who steal instead of the other way around.

filtherton

I think it's a ridiculous sentence. 15 years? How many years did they guy running FEMA get? None? Who really fucked more shit up?

Toaster126

You need to share whatever it is that you are smoking, because it can't be legal. People don't get let out before 1 year when they are handed 15. And I would bet my bank account they definitely get probation afterwards.

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"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)

Gatorade Frost

I had a change of opinion on this.

They should be fined twice the amount of the cost of what they stole and have to work an extravagant amount of community service.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

Asuka{eve}

"The judge said he wanted to send a message"

That part get me the most.

I also think a hefty fine and community service would have been a much better service.

Gatorade Frost

To me it makes sense that a judge would want to send a message, I mean if you're in a state wide emergency there can be no tolerance for people looting expensive items that aren't necesseties. While it makes sense that a judge would want to do it, ultimately housing criminals for crimes like that will eventually prove to be less useful than hoped. Like it has been said, community service (chain gang style would be awesome) should have been necessary along with paying back the liquor store for the cost of what they tr ied to steal. Community service would be best, though, since being housed in jail provies food, a place to live, etc. If you have to do community service it takes up a lot of your time, you're doing good work in the process, and you're not being fed, housed and all of that.

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I got in a fight one time with a really big guy, and he said, "I'm going to mop the floor with your face." I said, "You'll be sorry." He said, "Oh, yeah? Why?" I said, "Well, you won't be able to get into the corners very well."
Emo Philips

MechCow

Punishment for crimes normally falls into a few broad categories. Rehabilitation, deterrent, isolation from the rest of the community and revenge. If we look at each of these characteristics and consider logically from this moment in time how we can make the best society (remembering we can't change the past with our ruling today) I think we'll find that this sentence is not fair.

- Rehabilitation
It is very unlikely that someone locked up for 15 years will come out and not steal again. More likely they will become institutionalized and learn newer ways to commit crimes and have a new angst towards society.

- Deterrent
Its very unlikely that anyone will think during a natural disaster that they may receive 15 years for their crime and better not commit it. Its not considered a very serious attack against social justice or something that is likely to cause great guilt out of citizens. People know that people still from each other every day. The message here is - don't get made an example of.

- Isolation from the community
There is no evidence that these people were dangerous. The reality is that many people who commit crimes of passion or take advantage of circumstances like this are also people who can be very productive members of society. We are taught at a very young age that there is good people and bad people, and its often much more convenient to take on this view than to seriously consider the human mind and how people really behave because that is complicated and asks questions we don't like to think about.

- Revenge
This decision is based on fear and outrage experienced by the community at large created by the media coverage of this event. It shows what happen when people control the courts as well as the government, rulings are based on mob mentality rather than criminology, psychology and evidence. The truth is the court system is very complicated and should be left up to professionals who have studied it but people are arrogant and believe they know what is best for themselves without any attempt to research it.

I know murderers who have received lesser sentences than this. I challenge anyone who supports this ruling to critically examine it and to provide evidence of why it is the best course of action for the community at large. In your evidence you should provide economic and social gains.

Remember that the average cost of keeping a prisoner for a year is $20 000. The true losers / suckers are the taxpayer - not only have they been hit by an inept system that breeds people who place no value on the community and steal from it at any opportunity, they then get hit by an inept justice system which costs a fortune and delivers no results. Only repeat offenders. It just costs so much to make you feel like you are safe - especially when you make no attempt to learn and critically evaluate the best way to achieve that.

I'm with the thieves. Your society is broken and corrupt and although I live within it and enjoy participating in it but I will continue to fight for against your fear and irrationality for a better tomorrow. In the words of the late great Bill Hicks "Go back to bed America. Your government is in control".

highthief

People make loads of cash (or some form of barter) when disaster strikes selling booze and drugs. You'd probably make more selling a couple bottles of liquor, usual cash value of $25, than you would selling computers after a hurricane.

The point is stealing to survive is one thing after a disaster, and something virtually everyone understands. Stealing for profit or entertainment, when all those around you are suffering, is the mark of low life pond scum. IMO, of course.

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Ustwo

While I don't know any murderers personally (at least that were caught) I think many of us who support this sort of thing would be far more likely to want the murderers to be harsher punished rather then lighter sentence be given because some murderer got less of one.

Arguing economics and gain in this situation is silly. The most economical law enforcement is the $1.25 a single bullet costs. Any system that is not based on physical punishment will be very uneconomical.

Being I do not believe in rehabilitation via the institution of prison itself society gains when such types are out of the general population.

Using a period of societal break down as an excuse for a personal crime spree shows you have very little value to society as a whole. The logical course of action would be to remove those individuals from society, only our compassion keeps this idea from reaching is very logical, economical and beneficial conclusion in the most direct manner.

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hulk

Consider this - a hobo rustles through your garbage before the garbo's take it from your verge. They take a half-empty bottle of wine. What's that worth, 10-15 years? I mean, that hobo sure didn't need that wine to survive. He might even barter it away for a hamburger, or something terrible. Why doesn't he get a job and get his lazy arse of welfare? He might be crazy from crack or mentally ill. No chance of rehab, so a bullet to the head must be the only option.

Seriously, are looters that much of a menace to society that you would have them removed from it entirely? We can all sit back here and judge those who lost everything in New Orleans, but these people were there, and they were the ones that lost everything. They would very probably get lesser sentences if they marched into the store with a gun and demanded all the money in the till. It's political showboating and those that got sentenced where nothing but pawns.

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pan6467

I agree and I believe, there should be more outrage over the difference in sentencings. Stealing is stealing is it not?

Now they do this to people stealing alcohol, what about those cops videotaped and shown on national television looting Wal-Mart?

If this had been a bownout/blackout, an earthquake where it's over and people could start working on recovering almost immediately, or any tragedy where it hits and it's over, I could understand.

However, this was not just a Cat. 5 hurricane but the ensuing floods were devestating to the point where they are still having issues and we may truly never know how many died because of this.

At first, I sat here and believed they deserved the sentences.... but the more I thought of the question and what I WOULD DO, the more I realized I couldn't have an honest answer. If I had been in that situation, would I have stolen liquor? That I doubt, but would I have stolen anything other than the necessities of life?...... I cannot answer that in all honesty and I pray to my God I will never have to find out.

To the people who believe this sentence is fair..... that's your belief and that's cool, but just ask yourself what would you do in that situation? If you can't honestly answer that question.... perhaps you need to rethink you view. For those of you who believe you will never be in that situation..... I have pity on you, for your ego and self righteousness will eventually catch up to you.

I will say how did this case come about, how did they catch these particular 3, when there were literally thousands doing the same thing? And wouldn't it be better to find the violent criminals that have risen NO homocide rate recently?

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I just love people who use the excuse "I use/do this because I LOVE the feeling/joy/happiness it brings me" and expect you to be ok with that as you watch them destroy their life blindly following. My response is, "I like to put forks in an eletrical socket, just LOVE that feeling, can't ever get enough of it, so will you let me put this copper fork in that electric socket?"

mandy

you have to ask yourself a question though...where does it stop? what stops people from doing the same thing over and over again? Lord forbid another catastrophic phenomena of it's nature should hit anywhere again?

like the article said, the judge was just wanting people to know that it's not O.K to do stuff like that and that if you did that is the punishment you shall recieve.

the buck has got to stop somewhere.

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Toaster126

I don't think it sets an example because people don't think they are going to be caught or haven't thought the action through completely to the conclusion. If you don't think you are going to be caught, then the alleged concequences have no meaning. For example, Texas is infamous for giving murderers the chair. Yet, people murder in TX all the time. Is it because they don't know that TX is easy with the death penalty, or is it because they didn't think things through all the way and\or didn't think they would get caught?

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"The truth is that our finest moments are most likely to occur when we are feeling deeply uncomfortable, unhappy, or unfulfilled. For it is only in such moments, propelled by our discomfort, that we are likely to step out of our ruts and start searching for different ways or truer answers." (M. Scott Peck)