ARTelevision

I'm thinking Mace and a handgun should be issued to teachers on the first day of school...
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Mother, sons charged with beating teacher unconscious after boy was suspended

Friday, June 6, 2003

NEWBURGH, N.Y. (AP) --

Police say a mother and her two sons beat a teacher unconscious at school with a desk and a chair because she had suspended the younger boy.

The teacher, who works in an alternative school program for troubled youth, had suspended the boy for spitting in her face and pushing her, police said.

Jamie Mereness, 34, and her 17-year-old son William Ramos, went with her 12-year-old son to the school Tuesday afternoon to confront the teacher, who was not identified, police said Thursday.

Police said Mereness, Ramos and the younger son choked and punched the teacher, then used a desk and a chair to beat her in a basement classroom, Detective Lt. Santo Centamore said. The alternative school program is held in a church.

Police said the victim's 11-year-old son was in the classroom at the time and ran to a pay phone across the street to call police, Centamore said. Mereness and her sons were gone when police arrived.

The victim was treated at St. Luke's Hospital for bruises on her face and neck and pain in her back, neck and arm, and released, Centamore said.

Mereness and both sons were arrested Wednesday and charged with felony burglary and assault. Mereness had not been assigned a lawyer Friday, and her phone number is not listed.

The 12-year-old will be charged in family court, said Assistant District Attorney John Geidel.
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It's not only useless to contact parents about misbehaving students, it's downright dangerous these days!

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WhoaitsZ

actually, i'm all for a teacher arming themselves. a lot of people look at me like I grew another eye on my forehead when i say this, but damn...... they need em.

"BWUAHAHHAAAAA. you gonna skip detention again Johnny?!?!? I don't think so, bitch!" bangbang

Slims

I think *some* teachers should be armed. But trying to force weapons on some of the teachers I have had in the past would be disastrous. They would be too scared to protect themselves, or too oblivious to keep track of the weapon. I think teachers should be allowed to have mace, and some should be allowed to get certified to have concealed firearms. Armed teachers in israel pretty much make a columbine-like incident impossible.

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Antagony

Now that's what I call "Motherly Love"!



....okay, it was a bad joke.

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SecretMethod70

I don't know about guns, but mace? Definitely. Nightstick? Sure.

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gov135

Children having children leads to problems? Shocking.

Teachers already are given goodies before the year starts. Latex gloves in case of cuts and scrapes comes to mind.

Maybe if paddling was reinstituted...

gibber71

Maybe we can have the teacher on a big computer screen in the classroom giving her lesson for the day.If the kid's wreck the screen,the parents pay. If the parents can't pay,they go to jail. The kid then works on a farm picking oranges or something until he or she learns to grow up and not make the same decisions as their asshole parents did. If they don't learn after that,that's what prison is for.

QuasiMojo

not MY johnny.


Fuck her
and fuck everyone like her.

There is no hope for someone who has children and STILL chooses to behave like this.

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phredgreen

i'm not comfortable with the idea of teachers being armed. i just don't think enough teachers (sorry if the following statement offends), especially women, have the confidence to properly use this equipment in a situation like this, and i also agree with greg in that keeping track of (or the failure to keep track of) such items in a possibly hostile classroom environment will only lead to more problems. i am comfortable with surveilance of classrooms via cameras prominently displayed in each room. if the cameras are destroyed, shame shame, they have the culprit on tape and they can send that kid to jail (or juvie or the orange farm or whatever). i also feel that more parents should be held accountable for their children's actions. the kid fucks up, the parent pays. refer to the "failing kids in florida" thread about my full view of our educational system's failures.

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guthmund

Cameras in the classroom are a very good idea. This way the students and the teachers can be held accountable without all the finger pointing bullshit.

I would be all for arming the teachers with mace, especially in high violence areas. It's ridiculous that we put some of the worst bottom of the bucket; just don't give a flip kids in a small overfilled classroom with one teacher (usually a woman; or at least the ones we hear about are) and expect her to keep the peace.

I bet a few well placed mace blasts would've stopped this punk bitch thug and his pathetic excuse for a parent. At least it would've bought her some time to get the hell out of there.

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seretogis

Instead of arming teachers, we should be dealing with trouble-makers and their bad parents.

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madsenj37

That is the problem with this PC world. All types of hitting get classified as abuse. A little punishment is different than constant abuse. I stole once as a kid and got the belt and I have respected my dad ever since and never get into trouble since. Kids need a little discipline and people need protection from undisciplined kids. Give the teachers mace, especially at troubled schools.

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vermin

Putting shock collars on the kids would be a better idea. One control button. One kid screws up, everyone gets shocked. Let the brats police each other.

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SparklingDot

I want to be a teacher. And I get scared hearing about all of the things that happen. My solution is to have a bouncer in each corner of the room at all times while I'm teaching. Their job will be to make sure none of the punks try anything.

The trick to it is to have the bouncers beat the living hell out of a decoy student on the first day. Scare the bejeezus out of them. Then have them do it periodically throughout the year (to decoys, but if you're lucky, a real student) to keep them in line. Just put it in small print somewhere in the syllabus, "If your student acts up during class, I reserve to have my bouncers beat the snot out of them." No one really reads the things anyways.

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splck

It's a sad world when it comes down to this kind of shit happening in schools.

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krwlz

Lets start by letting the elemantary school teachers smack the kids who need it....

Then the kids might no better by now.

BoCo

That's absolutely brilliant!

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Tom Thumb

Yeah, hilarity would ensue, especially whenever a teacher leaves his/her gun lying around by accident.

My vote's with the shock collars.

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Double D

Surveilance of the classrooms is a great idea, but considering that our schools are in the midst of cutting out or back on things like music, P.E., Special Ed (including gifted or accelerated) who's going to pay for this?

Phredgreen, I'm not offended, rather I marvel at your statement in re: women not having enough confidence to use a weapon when *attacked like this.* Wouldn't proper training put a woman on equal ground with a man, in the use of a deadly weapon? Or does our vast expertise in the use of an aeresol can make mace the only line of defense that we can handle effectively?

phredgreen

not at all, double, but i've found in my experience that most women who go into the teaching arena (i said most, jadzia, not all) aren't really the "alpha type" who wouldn't hesitate to bust out a can of mace or a taser or even as some people have suggested (but i completly don't approve of) a gun. with people like the ones described in the story above, if you hesitate for even a second to use whatever weapon/protection you have available, they <b>will</b> take advantage and use it against you... i'd hate to see us arm teachers and then start hearing stories about how the teachers' protection devices were used against them.
does that mean all women would become victims of their own protection? certainly not. i'd see alot of women who can successfully use these devices... but i see so many more who may hesitate for a moment or two and have that hesitation become their downfall in an attack like the one above.

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krwlz

Training might posibly put the person on equal ground as far as accuracy and shit. But the gumption to acually pull the trigger....I'm going to agree with phred, that is probably lacking in a lot of teachers, both sexes, but especialy female.

You can't teach the courage Phred is talking about.

Peetster

Mace and cameras would not have stopped what happened at Columbine. Armed teachers would have. I'd make it optional and require a gun awareness and safety class plus range instruction to be permitted.

ARTelevision

ok - my new opinion is:
a police person or armed guard in each classroom would be a better solution than arming teachers.

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phredgreen

but with the current (and perpetually ongoing) budget crisis that seems to face almost the entirety of our nation's schools, this is simply not feasible, art. i just don't see a happy solution to this problem unless people are willing to completely alter the way our schools are run and the curriculum that all schools should provide.

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ARTelevision

schools waste money on "educational" nonsense.
no education happens because students are undisciplined.

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krwlz

I am still for letting the teachers smack em round when they are little, teach the little bastards some repect before they get big enough to be a problem. Obviously the parents are failing miserably!

(and art, I am not trying to bait you...)

phredgreen

that's like saying police waste money on big-assed massive powerplanted cruisers... they could easily all buy geo metros and spend a fifth of what they spend for fueiling all thsoe big cars, but they don't because it's the norm out here...

ever see a european cop car? teeny little things, but they still get the job done, even when surrounded by mercadeses and bmw's and audis...

so does that mean american cops will change? no. they like the cars they drive.

so does that mean american education will change? no. they've become comfortable in the current system - to the point where it's affecting our children's educations.

i don't see any real change coming about for at least another generation, until my and the generation before my generation realize that our schools are pumping out too many kids that are grossly underprepared for the world, while our global neighbors are taking advantage of this. america was once a great nation, but we're quicly becoming the laughingstock of the world with the "quality" of our youth and the inevitable problems they're gonna face when they're presented wto the rest of the world as "our future"

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WhoaitsZ

i fear i made the mistake of some common sense left unsaid as 'givin'.

of course, phred. i agree. I don't see this an issue at all for arming every teacher. the thing is, some do need it. i think they should be provided with both martial arts and firearm training, if they wish to pack heat.

i'd never give anyone a gun if they were not experienced and with good reasoning. the point is for those teachers who can keep cool and calm (and most likely the most hated) should be able to defend themselves.


teaching at schools these day is reminding me of a zoo keeper going into a big room of apes with no training. its nt only a bad idea, that person probably will not make it out alive or unscathed at least.

i do, however, have problems with the very ideal i'm supporting when i think of our future... kids now having to learn under risk of being harmed (and don't readt hat statement as 'innocent children')... what will our kids have to do?

The best ideas I've seen are cameras. yes, the invade privacy. but its school. in school you are supposed to learn, not be dealing or making out or what have you. if you're in school, you should have no privacy.

as far as a guard in the classroom? no way. that would stress the teacher and pupils out too badly.

ARTelevision

Yeah phred, I wasn't worrying about the practical aspects of funding it.

I was just stating how the problems of kids out of control could be dealt with so education had a chance of occurring.

How to pay for that would require rethinking a failed system. You are right.

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Gortexfogg

Arming teachers is a good idea (with mace and stuff, not guns). But, education already has a tight budget in most states. Money redirected to purchase mace, security cameras, security personnel, and whatever else would take more money from education kids. And who knows what kinda of lawsuits might erupt when a teacher was allowed to smack a child...that's even more money gone.

krwlz

I think that american society is fucked....

darksparkles

maybe a little thing of mace, but not a handgun.

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WhoaitsZ

several thoughts exploded into my head while reading this:

well, considering the way our gov spends its money in the first place i have to (for the time being) simply say the money will be spent anyhow.

the thing that pissess me off is we're more than ready to spend billion on a defense system we don't need. We spend billions to help other countries (which i'm not saying is a bad thing if our kids come first). We spend billions on God only knows what goobly gosh...

though we have massive debt, the problem hasn't been 'lack of money' as much as 'having someone who can actually work with money".

until we get the Humanzee our of office, we're fucked...

i am in shock that someone (besides the Humanzee shrub dude) thinks our education system should be behind other issues with all the bullshit going on. this is why bullshit is going on. we're being ran by idiots.

debaser

Perhaps parents should be held responsible for the actions of their children instead...

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WhoaitsZ

no doubt........ but what about the kids who have shit for parents if they have any?

in theory you're right. but reality is most of them go home to nothing worth having.

Ashton

Just give them all Cattle Prods...... 11,000 volts of Discipline.

debaser

Very true. However, the risk of being punished for the actions of your child might just whip some parents into a semblence of careing. Who knows. Thank goodness I don't have kids (yet).

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JadziaDax

Don't I wish...

We, as teachers, can't even put a child in a corner to separate them from the rest of the class. Corporal punishment is illegal in most of the US (except in maybe some backwoods school districts where everyone's relative). If I so much as give a student detention, I'd better have a damned good reason. And what happens if the student doesn't show up? Give them another detention.. and they don't show up again, so what? Nothing happens.

Administration barely ever backs up the teacher in cases of discipline.

For those of you who don't know, I work with the most difficult of students that exist. I'm a high school math teacher in an "alternative" high school. "Alternative to what?" you may be asking. Alternative to jail and/or boot camp, that's what. Most of my students have spent plenty of time behind bars in juvies. Some are there now. And some will be going very shortly. My students are some of the most violent children I've ever seen.

Am I afraid of them? No. There is no reason to be. Keep a few things in mind when dealing with them or their parents/guardians, and you'll be ok. First and foremost, don't back them into a corner. They'll come out swinging. These kids are used to being on the streets and having to fight for themselves. Second, show them as much love as you possibly can. It's something they're not used to, and they will always respond kindly. And third, don't be afraid to show "tough love". Be strong and fair. They'll call you on any unfair action.

There is no reason for armed guards in each classroom. If a student is unruly and your disciplining doesn't work, go to your Administrator (chain of command you must follow). If your Administrator (Principal, Vice Principal, Head Teacher) doesn't give you the assistance that you need, take it over their heads. See the child study team, see the school psychiatrist, see the guidance counselor, see the school social worker, and even call your local youth services office. Never let that child intimidate you.

JStrider

well i really dont think theres an easy way to solve this... i think the mace definently sounds like a good idea... as for the handguns... well definently extensive training involved... and maybe like tranquilizers instead of bullets... just knock the kid out... and then get security...

also some kind of security system... like a silent alarm... teacher pushes a button.... which lights up her/his room on a map in the security room and 2 security officers are dispatched to the room... and security cameras are a good thing also... but all this would cost money... in an area where there is already not enough money...

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seretogis

Abandon the failed system, and instead invest money in something that works -- namely, private schools which reserve the right to use corporal punishment on the most wild students.

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seretogis - sieg heil
perfect little dream the kind that hurts the most, forgot how it feels well almost
no one to blame always the same, open my eyes wake up in flames