cyrnel

Or the tip jars at drive-through coffee stands. That has to be about the strangest thing. Like paying for delivery twice. And I've done it. I've tipped these people. What was I thinking? (*slaps self*)

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xepherys

Well, I tip the Sbux people if I pay cash. First of all, it's not really their fault that their coffee costs $5/cup. It's also not their fault that I'm there spending so much money for coffee. Also, my wife used to be a shift manager at Sbux, so we counted on those tips for a brief period of time. If you have enough money to DRINK Starbucks coffee with any regularity... you have enough to tip them your change. *shrug* If not, you should probably get more coffee at Dunkin Donuts or 7-11 :-p (Actually, for those in the southwest, QT has pretty decent cheap coffee.... crazy!)

ShaniFaye

Can someone explain to me what someone at starbucks does thats any different that going to Dunkin Donuts? Why should someone who pours coffee at starbucks get a tip and someone at dunkin donuts not?

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stevo

good idea...

You have to tip strippers or they won't pay you any attention.

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kutulu

Nice fuzzy math. It's a three mile round trip. The federal government set the cost at 40.5 cents/mile. Therefore, he's LOSING 21.5 cents if it's only a $1 delivery charge. (acutally, since you rounded to 50 cents, he's losing almost 50 cents on your trip)

Maybe you don't believe that the actual cost is that high. Do you want numbers to back it up?

Car
$16,000
120,000 miles total life (at this point most cars turn to shit, which for someone who deliveres pizza full time is about every two years)
$0.13/mile

Insurance
$300.00/month (assuming he's under 25 and has a PERFECT record)
4,000 miles/month
$0.08/mile

Gas
$2.50/gallon
25 mpg
$0.10/mile

Maintenance
$1,400.00/year (16 oil changes at $25 each, tires every year, transmission service, brake job plus $300 extra for other shit. This is bare minimum. If you actually followed the guidelines in your manual it would a lot more)
48,000 miles/year
$0.03/mile

That's 34 cents per mile using very conservative numbers. You can easily double maintenance costs, increase insurance costs, and drop fuel economy to 20 miles per gallon.

You are located 1.45 miles away so it's a 2.9 mile round trip. Therefore it costs him 98.6 cents for the round trip. Damn I hope he doesn't spend that 1.4 cents all at the same place.

Remember, most places will go about 2-3 miles in each direction so the total round trip can be up to 8-12 miles if you live in the corner of the delivery area. Therefore, the cost can be up to $2.72 - $4.08 per trip. On those orders he's in the hole for $1.72 - $3.08 before he gets a "tip". For this reason, a delivery charge either needs to be assesed on a per mile basis (which is too difficult to do for each customer) or large enough to cover the average cost of delivery. Therefore, $2 is quite common now.

Have you read anything I wrote? It's his COST FOR DOING BUSINESS. Money that covers expenses (which is exactly what a delivery charge is) is NOT a tip. It doesn't do anything for him except make it so he's able to work.

These are things to think about when deciding what to tip. Obviously it's a big issue to you that someone should be able to make a living delivering food to you. Just pick it up yourself. You won't be bitter about having to pay anything extra and you won't be fucking up some driver's day.

cyrnel

They do a better job keeping rats & flies out of the pastry cabinets?

Seriously though, I agree. Tipping is engrained in society at many levels (exec bonuses, political contributions, payoffs) yet much exists without written rules and so can be difficult to understand. It's often associated with underhandedness: Unreported, untaxed, undocumented.

Kutulu, remember that people ordering are generally presented with advertising that says "free delivery" (or $1/2/3...) That's the expectation, along with an assumption that the merchant compensates the delivery people in some way. The reality is at the borders yet the consumer has to learn through nudging or word-of-mouth.

I would be more comfortable if ads said something like "be sure to tip the delivery dude. We don't pay squat." Won't happen though, so just as with in-restaurant food service, establishments will continue to pay the minimum to attract people who assume their next paycheck is based on charity. And we have to pay or risk "bonus toppings." Is doesn't surprise me people are often resistant to the concept.

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kutulu

I think the idea of people fucking with food is blown way out of proportion. I worked at one pizzaria for 7 years and another for 9 months and I never heard anything about that from anyone. I've hung out with serves for a long time as well and never heard of them doing anything either.

soccerchamp76

Kutulu, I mean no disrespect to you, so let's keep the comments on a friendly discussion please. And this is not the general tipping thread, just pizza delivery. There is another thread on where to tip.

My main point is that Papa John's does not explicitly state how they pay their drivers, how much they pay, and if they receive the delivery charge money. I am positive that these variables change from chain to chain, but it would nice to know.

As somebody mentioned above, quite bluntly, if the store posted a sign that says, "Please tip, we don't pay our driver's squat", that would let the customer know that the driver will be screwed on a miniscule tip.

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xepherys

It's a matter of a few things. First, tips, if given, are generally based on a percentage of your total bill. This goes back to the whole, if you don't want to tip someone, cook at home or serve yourself. *shrug* It just makes sense. This means that a tip on a $1.25 cup of coffee, versus a $4.25 cup of coffee are fairly different. When I go to Sbux I usually get an iced triple grande vanilla latte... with tax it's roughly $4.33. I usually give them the $0.67. It's not a lot of money, and frankly again if I can't afford to give them 67 cents, I really shouldn't be spending $4 on coffee when i can brew it at home for a mere fraction of the price.

As for the ingrained tipping in the US... it's part of how we operate. In Singapore, servers don't expect tips, but they also get paid decently by the establishments (even international chains such as The Hard Rock Cafe). In the US, if you are in a tipped position, you have a seperate minimum wage (mine was $2.62 when minimum wage was $5.25). It's expected that you get tipped and that is how you balance your income. If servers made $5.25/hour, it'd be a bit (but not much) different. I doubt many pizza delivery guys make more than minimum wage, if that.

Again, it's an expected part of the transaction, if you are too poor or cheap to give a tip, you should not be lazy and cook/feed/serve yourself. It makes perfect sense to me.

maleficent

the problem with tipping at starbucks, is that it's pretty well documented that starbucks employees are not underpaid. they are well compensated for the work they do and some have benefits available to them... There is no reason for them to be begging for tips, other than the fact that they can...

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snowy

Here in Oregon, servers make a minimum $7.50 an hour. There are a number of states in the West where tipping doesn't lower the minimum wage. When I worked in a restaurant as a cook, we got a share of the tips, and I usually made $20 for a lunch shift and anywhere from $40-80 on a dinner shift. Good money, given that I was also paid $8.18 an hour.

But yes, consumers should be aware of which states do change their minimum wage for servers. Otherwise you're seriously impacting how much someone takes home with a bad tip.

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Cynthetiq

Also in Singapore the guys at McDonald's get pissed off when you take your tray and throw it away. They also have people to take the parking ticket out of the machine and hand it to you. Elevator operators for push button elevators... Door openers for electronic automatic doors....

and by that last part, then you should be tipping the Dunkin' Donuts guy too.

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stevo

Exactly, because they can. If all it takes is writing "TIPS" on a piece of paper and taping it to a jar for an extra $20, then more power to them. It's not like they hand you a bill with a gratuity________ for you to fill in. Its all optional, really, if management doesn't have a problem with it, I dont' see why someone wouldn't do that.

/jack

That delivery charge doesn't count as a tip.

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Rodney

I made minimum wage back in '74, $2.00/hour as I recall -- working at a Straw Hat Pizza store, in fact, though we didn't deliver. As an 18- or 20-year-old who was still carried on the parents' health insurance, you could just about live on 2/hr if you got a cheap basement apartment or shared a two-bedroom apartment with somebody else.

If that $2/hour minimum wage had kept up with inflation (according to a handy inflation calculator), it would be $8.32 an hour today, more or less. I doubt that many pizza delivery drivers -- or a whole lot of fast food people in general -- get that much. But that's what you'd need to live as well as we did 30 years ago. What's the federal minimum now, $5.75? That's a joke.

Whether you're talking pizza delivery drivers or any other food service type, I can tell you one thing: the rise of the tip jar came with the fall of the minimum wage. As the minimum wage fell farther and farther behind inflation, those tip jars grew more and more numerous. That is a fact. From that, you can draw your own conclusions and judgments.

xepherys

Actually, the minimum wage is a federally set standard, though some states may make it higher, the standard is the federal minimum wage (and no state can make it lower).

I don't see simply having a tip jar out as "begging". *shrug*

Well, sure you should, but instead of $0.60 it'll be maybe $0.20. *shrug* I have no problem with that.

Toaster126

STRIPPERS! I totally forgot about strippers. If you don't tip them, they will cause trouble, and the meat axes minding the place will decide you should leave.

Also, waiters\esses in KS make $2.13 an hour.

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SteelyLoins

[QUOTE=kutulu]Not if you ever want your food on time again...






I have a philosophical difference with that. I know you were joking (sort of), but I consider tipping to be akin to blackmail.

What if the philosophy spreads? Tip the cable guy or he won't show up next time to fix your cable? Tip your doctor or he won't write you a prescription? Tip the guy at the gym for giving you a towel that's clean? Tip the guy at the movie rental place for renting you a non-scratched DVD?

I'd prefer to know the up-front, out-the-door price on my goods and services, even if it's higher, and dispense with the additional reward system for the person to do his job properly.

Now if we could just do the same for our elected representatives. (Oops, politics.)

Lasereth

I tip the pizza guy because like Kutulu said, there's hidden charges that you don't even think about, like the overall cost of actually driving around your town. I tip $3-5 for any pizza delivery I request. At my school club meetings, we get 10 pizzas in the big parties, and I tip $20. They're <I>Driving</I> to your house to bring your lazy ass food, risking crashing their car or getting a ticket, not to mention having to put up with pets, mean dogs, etc. just so you can stuff your face. They deserve something besides the crap wages they get at the pizza place.

Same with waiters and waitresses -- my mom worked in restaurants for most of her life and the average wage is $2.00 an hour. My mom has received PLENTY of negative paychecks (she owes the place money) for taking a break between a shift and eating a salad or something. Waiters and waitresses do NOT make standard salary "plus" tip. No, they make CRAP salary, plus tip. They depend on your tip as their salary.

Now, if the pizza guy or the waitresses ever act rude or deliver poor service, then a small (or no) tip is necessary. If they did their job (fill your drink in a reasonable amount of time, get the pizza there in a quality condition) then they deserve a nice tip.

Oh, and if your food or pizza gets to your house late, 90% of the time it's not the driver or the waiter's fault. They don't make the food so why should they be penalized by getting no tip? Think about these things next time you're about to walk out a restaurant without leaving a tip because your food took longer than expected. Was it <B>really</B> the waitresses fault that you didn't get your food on time?

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shalafi

I worked for the loca papa johns a couple years ago for a few months and still keep in touch with some of the managers. When I was there drivers made minimum wage (I think it was $5.something at the time) and got a per order gas fee that varied with gas price ($.80 per order when i was there). That was before the delivery charges were started. Last I heard they had upped the per order to 1.10 for rising gas prices. The delivery charge being added didn't alter the way the drivers get paid by the store. It just offset the stores costs for paying the drivers.


The following isn't directed at anyone in particular. Just throwing it out there.

At the above rate if you live 3 miles from the restraunt and tip $2 the driver is netting ~$.70 for taking your pizza out of the oven, boxing it, cutting it, making sure you have the propper sauces/pepperoncinis/drinks/etc, and bringing it to your door. How much effort would you go to for $.70?

soccerchamp76

For all the lazy comments, I attend a University and I have no car. Therefore I am unable to drive to pick up an order. Delivery fast-food is a college necessity. The main point was that Papa John's has kept increasing the delivery charge without informing the customer of A) increasing the charge and B) letting the customer know where the money is going.

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Brian Griffin: Ah, if my memory serves me, this is the physics department.
Chris Griffin: That would explain all the gravity.

The_Jazz

Just a heads up to all of our delivery drivers out there (in the US anyway) - if you are using your personal vehicle to make deliveries (which is usually the case), your auto insurance probably does not cover that use unless you specifically get permission from your insurance carrier. You probably heard all about that at your orientation (hopefully), but it never hurts to check. The last thing you want is to get into a small-ish accident with someone who's pissed off and not have your insurance pay up. Your employer should have coverage for them and you if its a big enough accident, but if it's only a few thousand dollars in damage and no one's hurt, you could have a problem.

/threadjack

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Sp0rAdiC

I'm going to be delivering for Dominos this summer, I'll be between my first and second year at college. I don't think there's any delivery fee, and I'll be paid $6.25 an hour (Minimum wage here is $7.25) and I'll get paid $0.25 per mile driven. I'm curious to see how my town tips, I'm hoping it'll be good, but I'm trying not to get my hopes up. So... tip your delivery driver!