BCD

Unlike probably many of you guys, I was not raised around guns. Over the past few years, I've purchased a shotgun for the occasional sporting clays outing or when asked to go turkey hunting and obtained my CCW permit and purchased an HK USP Compact to go with it. Just recently I purchased a Bushmaster XM-15 M4 and hope to add a 50 cal. rifle next. As it comes to gun safety, I've essentially learned from watching my more experienced friends.

The question I have is, when and how should I introduce my kids to guns and, specifically, gun safety? My kids are 5 and under, so it hasn't been an issue quite yet but it is on the horizon. Also, how do you guys with kids store your weapons?

Thanks.

P.S. Sorry if my boner in the avatar is distracting. Most of my posting is in the sex-related forums, where the avatar is a bit more appropriate.

Suave

Hey man, you're in the land of the phallic symbol. It's as fitting here as the sex forums.

I know a few people introduce their children as young as 5, and I recommend starting early, but not necessarily with real guns. Start with the important concepts at a young age, then work them up through toy guns to airguns and so forth. I probably wouldn't introduce a real firearm to any kid under the age of 10.

Best way to store the weapons would be in a locked gun cabinet I suppose.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

cuervo

I would work to dissolve any mystery regarding guns. I'm not saying to leave them out and around the house, but take one, unloaded and verified twice, and sit down with a kid and let them hold it and point it and pull the trigger.

Do this every now and then while expressing the concepts of not pointing at someone or yourself, don't touch it if you see it leaving out, come get you, etc...

As Suave stated, maybe get an airgun for the first shots, but it wouldn't hurt to go to the range with a .22 eventually.

Again, the big stress is to remove the aura of "if it's bad, it must be good" about guns and show that they are a tool that can be dangerous if used incorrectly but good when used correctly.

Store most items in a big safe for thief protection. If you have a gun for house protection, you can buy a small safe with a keypad-combination or finger-combination lock for quicker access.

SirLance

1. Storage: locked cabinet with a trigger lock on each weapon. (If you are concerned about defending yourself or your family in the case of an emergency, you should practice unlocking and loading a weapon. You'll be suprised at how fast you can become prepared in an emergency.)

2. Safety: Have you had any firearms training yourself? You should probably get some. As a first step, make contact with a local gun club and see if they have or can point you to some firearms instruction. Most people who instruct adults also have special programs for kids, as well.

Whether you like it or not, your kids will be exposed to firearms at some point in their lives. Your best defense is to do exactly what you contemplate doing, teach them firearm safety.

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The_Dunedan

1: I started learning a 3-1/2 years old, on an old Savage-Stevens .22 rifle my Mom found at a yard-sale. It is NEVER too early! The earlier they start, the quicker good gunhandling will become instinctive. Take 'em early, take 'em often. .22 ammo is cheap and plentiful, and it's a great way to spend time with your kids.

2: Have a routine. Have a set "drill" for every shooting outing, so that your kids get used to doing things the right way more quickly.

3: Any deviation from safe gunhandling, and the day is OVER. No questions, no excuses. This usually only has to happen once before the kid gets the hint that this is really serious shit. If it takes more than one such termination ( combined with a look that'll strip the paint off walls from you ) then your child is not ready to be around guns.

4: As for the "lock 'em all up!" suggestion above; this won't be needed if your kids are properly gunproofed. Locking up ones' guns is a good idea ( to protect from theft ) but expecting that a trigger-lock will keep a 5-year-old from playing with a gun is just plain silly. If your kid isn't adequately gunproofed, they -will- find a way to fiddle with your weapons, even if it takes years. The lure of "forbidden fruit" is extremely strong, and this kind of over-reaction sends a VERY strong "forbidden fruit" message. Trigger-locks can also cause some guns ( 1st-Gen Glocks, the S&W Sigma series ) to FIRE when dropped, if improperly stored. They also increase your "lead time" in a self-defense situation to several seconds at -best-, seconds which you might not have.

5: I personally would suggest that you start 'em on a .22, as I was. Too many kids have the idea that BB-guns are simply a slightly-more-adult "toy" and treat them as such. You do NOT want them getting these ideas!! A .22 has some noise to it, which if nothing else will get it into their heads that the potential for serious injury or death exists. That sudden, sharp CRACK!!! tends to get their attention.
5b: I'd also suggest shooting a watermelon or honeydew on your first time out. Trust me, this will make a BIG impression. If you hunt, take them small-game hunting with you, this works even better.

MSD

step 1: Load your pistol (.45 is good for this demo) with Hydra Shoks.
step 2: Walk (if there's a safe way to do it at an outdoor range) with the child to the 50-yard line and allow the child to place a watermelon there. While walking back, mention that this is half a football field.
step 3: After the range is safe and clear, apply ear protection, apply eye protection, aim, and fire.
step 4: Explain to the child that a bullet will hit a person with the same a mount of force as the watermelon.
step 5: Take out a towel and wipe watermelon chunks/juice from yourself and the child.
step 6 (if the child is old enough): Allow the child to fire at the watermelon. Anything else would be cruel

moosenose

My baby started teething on her first real loaded gun (Condition 3, with me supporting it while I held her too, so yes, it was safe) at 4 months old.

Tactical Tupperware is great!

IMHO, waiting until 5 years old is WAY too late to start them.

moosenose

Anybody who stores a self-defense gun like that DESERVES to get raped. It's a hell of a lot more difficult to unlock a gun and load it at 4 am with somebody breaking into your house than it is at 2pm when "practicing".

/sings "Soy, un Perdidor!" for them

Suave

Nonsense. :P I wasn't started on even an air rifle until probably 8-10 years old, and I'm the most responsible person around firearms that I know, barring my dad.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

moosenose

You prolly didn't grow up in a house where the contents of the gunsafes were worth more than the house and land are.

8-10 years old is WAY too late if the kids are going to be around guns from Day 1.

Suave

Well no, but my dad does own 2-3 rifles and 3 shotguns.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

moosenose

I have that many loaded guns in my bathroom. We live in different worlds, and have different training requirements.

Suave

I'm afraid to ask why. :P Yes I suppose the requirements are different, since it is not legal to store firearms loaded here.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

moosenose

We sometimes have groundhogs and raccoons that come through the crawlspace which leads into the bathroom behind the shower.

As a concession to practicality, we only leave stainless guns in the bathroom.

If it's not legal to store loaded guns there, how can they be used for defense? An unloaded gun is at best a brick or a club.

Suave

Defence shmefence. The proper usage of firearms up here is either plinking or hunting. Defence with one is very rare (unless you're a cop). I do have a half dozen knives and a pool cue in my room though.

__________________
"Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions." - Albert Einstein

"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something." - Plato

MSD

They're required to be locked at all times if loaded in the house. I find that half a turn of the lock screw using a key JB-Welded into the lock does the trick. At the moment, I have shells clipped to the wall of my closet 6 inches from the gun, so I don't even have to lock it. I know how to safely handle loaded firearms, I took great care to train my brother on firearm safety, beginnig with airguns and now with a real gun, and if my mom ever discovers that I do own a gun, she'll be fine since she was the captain of her college rifle team and has told a number of stories in which the fact that people followed safety guidelines prevented any injury or damage to anything other than the foam ceiling of the shooting range. She has, however, adopted a puzzling anti-gun stance that I believe comes more from unfamiliarity (hasn't handled a real gun since college) than anything else.

moosenose

My mother was an anti-gun hippy that wouldn't let me play with "war toys", which is why I grew up to be a Class 3 arms dealer. Over time, as she saw that I didn't actually either kill myself or go to jail, she mellowed out, to the point that I taught her to shoot and got her a CCW permit.

squirrelyburt

Right or wrong, I had my kids shooting at around 5 yrs old. I held the shotgun or rifle while they wrapped their arms around the stock and pulled the trigger. I keep loaded guns in the house, I also allow the boys to aske me when they want to shoot. I hunt, and bring home dead things. They know what a gun can do, they kill. The way I see it, I answer two questions, what guns do and what they are like.

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GM2

At about age 7 or 8, my dad and I would occasionally go out and fire off a few rounds from his .22 rifle. He taught me good safety rules, and I've used them ever since.

He also pointed out to me where the gun was, and where he kept the bullets. He made it clear that if I touched either of them without his being there, he would know it, and that he would whip the tar out of me immediately thereafter. I remember it made a big impression on me, so I never touched either of em.

I think the most important thing is that you teach kids that weapons are acceptable only if properly used and every safety rule is always observed.

hrdwareguy

The NRA has an Eddie Eagle program for teaching gun safety. As a parent, you can get an "evaluation" copy of the prgogram for free. If you don't have much or any gun training yourself, it might be worth taking a look at. The Eddie Eagle program is sponsored by the NRA however it does not mention the NRA or try and teach kinds guns are good or bad, it just teaches safety by means of "leave it alone, leave the area, tell an adult".

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BCD

Man, I knew I came to the right place. Thanks for the advice. I recently rejoined the NRA (I was pissed at them for endorsing a Democrat with a very average voting record on gun owners' rights over a Republican, ex-Special Forces West Point grad who I supported in our local congressional elections; what made matters worse is that my numerous calls to the local legislative liason for the NRA to discuss the matter were not returned), so I might order some of the Eddie the Eagle material. Although I think the more effective way will be to: (i) take him shooting (so he can see first-hand that these aren't toys and that they can kill you), (ii) threaten to beat the snot out of him if he ever touches the weapons w/o my permission, and (iii) as he grows up continue to instill safe gun handling .

I'm still torn about whether I should keep my weapons locked up in gun safes. Conventional wisdom suggests that you absolutely do. However, as a kid, home safes fascinated the hell out of me and I was powerless to NOT try to break into them. And try as you might, you will have to write the combination or put the key somewhere, which a determined and snoopy kid (like I was) will always find - no matter how good the hiding spot. Even after working with a kid on gun safety, I think he might be more likely to mess around with a gun if it is locked up in a "forbidden" manner than if the gun was simply placed somewhere less "sexy" (e.g., in a closet on a shelf).

lefty8080

Check out your local sportsmans clubs. Since joining my local club, I have received my NRA Range Safety Officer and Shotgun instructor ratings. I will train in rifle and pistol education this fall. Our club has JR trap and JR rifle programs. These programs are FREE to children. We teach them gun safety and we let them shoot trap and rifles (in the respective programs). Now, not only is there no cost, we provide use of a gun, ammo and targets. They can shoot every week through out the summer, and we have even sponsored some kids that showed promise in statewide events. This is made possible by grants from the NRA. The NRA spends ALOT of money teaching safe gun handling, and has developed some very fine programs. There is bound to be one in your area.

WillyPete

Look at it from a kid's point of view.
If your dad had a gun and you knew and told your friend whose dad didn't have one, what are the chances you'd feel the need to take it out and show your friend.

At an age where responsible decision making is limited, chances are you would.
Same as if you'd sneak a swim in the locked pool when mom and dad weren't home or riding your buddy's big brother's off road bike during a boring summer day.

Teaching respect for YOUR property would be the first step to avoid this by also teaching the child that you respect THEIR property.

I saw a good show on discovery last night about Masamune, the japanese swordsmith.
His swords, made in medieval times still fetch around 1/2 a million dollars.
He is held in religious regard by modern smiths.
The interesting part was where the one japanese guy demonstrated the cutting strokes and use of the sword.
Prior to drawing each sword he raised it respectfully in both hands, holding it horizontally at head height. He then offered honour and respect to it by a tip of the head.
He would do the same when sheathing it, before placing it back on the rack.

In this day and age I found it marvellous that someone could still use the old code and thought that it was a very practical and useful attitude to have.
With the west's fascination with and easy access to all types of firearms compared to that of a Katana, it's easy to see why we have lost respect for weapons.

Now I'm not advocating we bow to the rifle before pulling it out of the case, but similar attitudes can be used prior to teaching a child about weapons in order to distil respect and the correct mindset before using them.

How about, before opening the weapon safe, to sit facing them, even kneeling to place yourself on even terms, and recite the basic rules that you are about to follow whilst handling the firearm?
Remind them that it is first and foremost a device intended to take a life, whether animal or another human's in defence of oneself.

Having been an instructor in the Airforce in So. africa and having had to take many young guys at the age of about 18 to weapon ranges, it's easy to see that our media and entertainment has a lot to answer for in western males' attitude towards firearms.

I've even made mistakes, nothing fatal or serious, that could have been averted had I shown the proper respect to the 'code' of the weapon.
Mistakes such as trusting myself with a loaded weapon when there was no need for one. Not that I would have let it out of my sight or been careless with it, but that if there is no need to carry one, don't. But that's a personal view on certain situations.

Johnny Pyro

Yeah, just a tad bit distracting.

__________________
"From delusion lead me to truth, from darkness lead me to light, from death lead me to eternal life. - Sheriff John Wydell

BCD

That is a pretty cool idea that I think will hit home with him. Thanks.