Rapier reccomendations - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

Baron Opal · 11-26-2004, 03:56 AM

I'm looking for a nice swept hilt rapier with dagger. I won't be able to afford it for a while, but I figure that if I do my research now, I can get on the waiting list. Does anyone know of good smiths or companies that make usable swords?

WillyPete · 11-26-2004, 04:12 AM

A good starting place:
http://therionarms.com/links.shtml

Theatrical, collectors, re-enactment/SCA and training links to all armour and weapons.

The_Dunedan · 11-26-2004, 07:43 PM

Museum Repilicas Ltd. is a good start. ( www.museumreplicas.com )
For more ornate, slightly more expensive, and better-made weapons, try Arms and Armor. ( www.armor.com )

These are both excellent companies: well-made weapons without paying several thousand dollars to a custom smith. MRL is frequented by the Asoociation for Rennesance Martial Arts; these guys do a lot of live-steel ( rebated edges ) sparring and test-cutting, so their weapons have to be able to take quite a bit of abuse. Both companies also base their entire collections around existing examples or archetypes developed by Ewart Oakshott.

Fire · 11-27-2004, 12:21 AM

Hi all- I love threads like these, mostly because I run a (small) sword company- we do our own work, and also sell a lot of the major brands-of the more affordable factory brands, Paul chen's hanwei forge puts out fairly good rapiers, and most are available with matching daggers, also, Hanwei sells replacement blades so if you beat one to shit on stage or in practice you can get a new one, whereas museum replicas does not offer this luxury- I sell both brands, but for that reason alone recommend hanwei to the majority of my customers MRL doea a good job, but is also slightly more expensive on average and if you are going to do any choreographed work or practice, it will beat em up QUICK....- for small shop high end blades, I have heard good things about Alchem swords, and also arms and armor- few custom guys make rapiers- its kind of specialized , and tempering a long, thin, slender blade can be a cast iron bitch-

Moonduck · 12-01-2004, 04:58 PM

I keep hearing so much good stuff about Paul Chen. I wish I had a shop like yours nearby, Fire, so I could heft a Paul Chen blade. I positively refuse to buy a sword without touching it first.

Case in point was MRL's black Schiavona, beautiful sword. I happened to be in Atlanta and went by MRL. They brought one out, and I couldn't even grasp it properly. The handle was too short for my hand by almost a half an inch. Shame too, as I'd have bought it right then otherwise. By the same token, I've looked at swords that I wouldn't give a second glance to, but when I picked them up, everything changed.

Course I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a sword for myself. I always intend to, but when it comes to purchase time, there's always a mass weapon in the stands whispering to me. Damned axes, maces, and hammers....

im2smrt4u · 12-01-2004, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire

Hi all- I love threads like these, mostly because I run a (small) sword company- we do our own work, and also sell a lot of the major brands-of the more affordable factory brands, Paul chen's hanwei forge puts out fairly good rapiers, and most are available with matching daggers, also, Hanwei sells replacement blades so if you beat one to shit on stage or in practice you can get a new one, whereas museum replicas does not offer this luxury- I sell both brands, but for that reason alone recommend hanwei to the majority of my customers MRL doea a good job, but is also slightly more expensive on average and if you are going to do any choreographed work or practice, it will beat em up QUICK....- for small shop high end blades, I have heard good things about Alchem swords, and also arms and armor- few custom guys make rapiers- its kind of specialized , and tempering a long, thin, slender blade can be a cast iron bitch-

My friend and someone he knows train with (or used to anyway) rapiers and my friend had a Hanwei and the other guy had a Museum Replicas. My friend said he was taking chunks out of the MR with the Hanwei!

Fire · 12-02-2004, 06:36 PM

yeah, MRL tempers to a lot lower rockwell than PC, or so it seems,- and in general I like PC better for feel, and really overall I give em higher marks-on the other hand you get more variety with MRL, and the higher temper on PC blades means that in the event of a blade failure rather than bend or take deep nicks they tend to snap- but that seems to be a rare occurance at best, and generally requires abuse to happen.........Moonduck- I've been eying their silver schiavona and have held off cause of my experience with their Celt longsword - bad news for anyone with even above average hands- I could not even use it, luckily a very small framed witch bought it for ritual- same problem with their damascus steel viking sword- could of sold it a few times if I had more customers under 5'5" ...they need to take hand size into considderation- even if the originals had small handles, they were made for people of the time who used them, and apparently we are bigger......

The_Dunedan · 12-02-2004, 08:06 PM

That's why I stick with A&A myself. MRL's pieces are all direct copies of existing weapons or archetypes...from periods when the average grown Man was between 5'5 and 5'10, as opposed to our 5'10 to 6'2. Bigger people = bigger hands.

Moonduck · 12-03-2004, 01:03 PM

The Irish-hilted Claymore they made is gorgeous and properly sized. A buddy of mine recently remarried and his wife bought it for him as a wedding present. Every man in the room was instantly, poisonously jealous, and every woman hated his new wife instantly as they all knew they'd been outclassed in the wedding present category.

As far the hand-size thing is concerned, how accurate is that? We'ren't the Vikings and other Norsemen regarded as giants in their time, making them at least closer to modern size? For that matter, I can remember an exhibition of Mongolian artifacts at the Smithsonian many years ago, and one item that I'll never forget was a goatkin undershirt. I'm a big boy at 5'11" and about 300lbs, and you could've fit two of me inside that shirt, and it wasn't built for a fat man. The guy wearing it had to have had shoulders as wide as a Mack Truck.

I'm not arguing that the historical swords aren't designed for smaller hands, but some swords I would think would be larger. Course in my case, it doesn't matter what period I look at at, I have large hands even for my size. Guess it's another reason why I like the mass weapons so much. No grip issues generally.

Fire · 12-04-2004, 02:42 AM

the norse were giants in their time, but that aint saying a lot- from graves and from the ships we have found, as well as from the size of certain artifacts they were still considerably smaller than us..... and that of course goes for hand size as well- dont get me wrong though, some of the problem can be chalked up to people trying to use a weapon the wrong way- a viking sword is not a rapier, and cannot used as such- and a lot of people start their sword use carear with fencing and kendo- a good basis, and it works for a lot of different weapons ( i.e. if you can fence and are versed in kendo you can easily figgure out a lot of different weapons in a short time)
but some weapons- in particular viking swords and the roman gladius come to mind- just dont work as intuitively- this tends to skew a lot of peoples view on balance and grip imho

11-26-2004, 03:56 AM	#1 (permalink)
Baron Opal Crazy Location: Oregon	Rapier reccomendations I'm looking for a nice swept hilt rapier with dagger. I won't be able to afford it for a while, but I figure that if I do my research now, I can get on the waiting list. Does anyone know of good smiths or companies that make usable swords?

11-27-2004, 12:21 AM	#4 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	Hi all- I love threads like these, mostly because I run a (small) sword company- we do our own work, and also sell a lot of the major brands-of the more affordable factory brands, Paul chen's hanwei forge puts out fairly good rapiers, and most are available with matching daggers, also, Hanwei sells replacement blades so if you beat one to shit on stage or in practice you can get a new one, whereas museum replicas does not offer this luxury- I sell both brands, but for that reason alone recommend hanwei to the majority of my customers MRL doea a good job, but is also slightly more expensive on average and if you are going to do any choreographed work or practice, it will beat em up QUICK....- for small shop high end blades, I have heard good things about Alchem swords, and also arms and armor- few custom guys make rapiers- its kind of specialized , and tempering a long, thin, slender blade can be a cast iron bitch- __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-02-2004, 06:36 PM	#7 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	yeah, MRL tempers to a lot lower rockwell than PC, or so it seems,- and in general I like PC better for feel, and really overall I give em higher marks-on the other hand you get more variety with MRL, and the higher temper on PC blades means that in the event of a blade failure rather than bend or take deep nicks they tend to snap- but that seems to be a rare occurance at best, and generally requires abuse to happen.........Moonduck- I've been eying their silver schiavona and have held off cause of my experience with their Celt longsword - bad news for anyone with even above average hands- I could not even use it, luckily a very small framed witch bought it for ritual- same problem with their damascus steel viking sword- could of sold it a few times if I had more customers under 5'5" ...they need to take hand size into considderation- even if the originals had small handles, they were made for people of the time who used them, and apparently we are bigger...... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

12-03-2004, 01:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	The Irish-hilted Claymore they made is gorgeous and properly sized. A buddy of mine recently remarried and his wife bought it for him as a wedding present. Every man in the room was instantly, poisonously jealous, and every woman hated his new wife instantly as they all knew they'd been outclassed in the wedding present category. As far the hand-size thing is concerned, how accurate is that? We'ren't the Vikings and other Norsemen regarded as giants in their time, making them at least closer to modern size? For that matter, I can remember an exhibition of Mongolian artifacts at the Smithsonian many years ago, and one item that I'll never forget was a goatkin undershirt. I'm a big boy at 5'11" and about 300lbs, and you could've fit two of me inside that shirt, and it wasn't built for a fat man. The guy wearing it had to have had shoulders as wide as a Mack Truck. I'm not arguing that the historical swords aren't designed for smaller hands, but some swords I would think would be larger. Course in my case, it doesn't matter what period I look at at, I have large hands even for my size. Guess it's another reason why I like the mass weapons so much. No grip issues generally. Last edited by Moonduck; 12-03-2004 at 01:07 PM..

12-04-2004, 02:42 AM	#10 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	the norse were giants in their time, but that aint saying a lot- from graves and from the ships we have found, as well as from the size of certain artifacts they were still considerably smaller than us..... and that of course goes for hand size as well- dont get me wrong though, some of the problem can be chalked up to people trying to use a weapon the wrong way- a viking sword is not a rapier, and cannot used as such- and a lot of people start their sword use carear with fencing and kendo- a good basis, and it works for a lot of different weapons ( i.e. if you can fence and are versed in kendo you can easily figgure out a lot of different weapons in a short time) but some weapons- in particular viking swords and the roman gladius come to mind- just dont work as intuitively- this tends to skew a lot of peoples view on balance and grip imho __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

11-26-2004, 04:12 AM	#2 (permalink)
WillyPete Addict	A good starting place: http://therionarms.com/links.shtml Theatrical, collectors, re-enactment/SCA and training links to all armour and weapons.

11-26-2004, 07:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	Museum Repilicas Ltd. is a good start. ( www.museumreplicas.com ) For more ornate, slightly more expensive, and better-made weapons, try Arms and Armor. ( www.armor.com ) These are both excellent companies: well-made weapons without paying several thousand dollars to a custom smith. MRL is frequented by the Asoociation for Rennesance Martial Arts; these guys do a lot of live-steel ( rebated edges ) sparring and test-cutting, so their weapons have to be able to take quite a bit of abuse. Both companies also base their entire collections around existing examples or archetypes developed by Ewart Oakshott.

12-01-2004, 04:58 PM	#5 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	I keep hearing so much good stuff about Paul Chen. I wish I had a shop like yours nearby, Fire, so I could heft a Paul Chen blade. I positively refuse to buy a sword without touching it first. Case in point was MRL's black Schiavona, beautiful sword. I happened to be in Atlanta and went by MRL. They brought one out, and I couldn't even grasp it properly. The handle was too short for my hand by almost a half an inch. Shame too, as I'd have bought it right then otherwise. By the same token, I've looked at swords that I wouldn't give a second glance to, but when I picked them up, everything changed. Course I couldn't tell you the last time I bought a sword for myself. I always intend to, but when it comes to purchase time, there's always a mass weapon in the stands whispering to me. Damned axes, maces, and hammers....

12-02-2004, 08:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
The_Dunedan Junkie	That's why I stick with A&A myself. MRL's pieces are all direct copies of existing weapons or archetypes...from periods when the average grown Man was between 5'5 and 5'10, as opposed to our 5'10 to 6'2. Bigger people = bigger hands.