I need some help choosing a High Powered Rifle - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

solo2020 · 09-12-2004, 01:53 PM

I live in California. This eliminates 1/2 of all the fairly inexpensive high powered rifles out in the market.

I'm looking at spening $200-$300 max for a decent high powered rifle. I know this seriously limits my choices. But I would not mind owning an older WWII rifle. Remember, I live in California, so I can't buy a Eastern European AK for $250 (WHICH SOME MID-WEST STATES HAVE !!!)

Kurtz · 09-12-2004, 02:33 PM

How high powered do you want? Are you counting 8mm mauser, .303 british, and 30-06, or are you looking for something bigger? And what do you plan on using it for?

Big Cholla · 09-12-2004, 04:22 PM

You leave a lot for us to guess. What do you want to accomplish with your new rifle? Do you have any physical limitations? What is your size? Are you recoil sensitive? How much accuracy do you need? Gun shops are a good source for reliable and accurate used rifles. War surplus rifles are very reliable, but not very accurate. Bolt action rifles are generally more accurate and reliable than semi-auto actions. The British SMLE bolt action is ugly but very accuate and reliable if the barrel is not fouled or damaged. You can hunt deer and hogs with it in complete confidence. The US Springfield is a better bolt action, but the used prices are out of sight now. Find a widow selling off her husband's guns and buy a Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage in a caliber suitable for your use.

After you have your "new to you" rifle, have a gunsmith check it out. Often, the actions are loose in the stock, the trigger has been messed with and/or the sights are loose or all three. Also, many people do not know how to clean a rifle barrel properly, so they don't! Get the gunsmith to show you the proper technique and the proper tools/chemicals. Barrel fouling is the primary cause of inaccuracy. I have bought many inaccurate rifles to find that the only problem was a copper fouled barrel.

kinsaj · 09-12-2004, 08:56 PM

I would go with a mauser or a good nagant with a scope if accuracy is more important. But dont get me wrong... my mauser is still VERY accurate, and I love it.

As Big Cholla said, more info would help.

solo2020 · 09-13-2004, 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big Cholla

You leave a lot for us to guess. What do you want to accomplish with your new rifle? Do you have any physical limitations? What is your size? Are you recoil sensitive? How much accuracy do you need?

I want to use the rifle for just general plinking. Something that can hit targets beyong 100 yards (which my .22 can't do).

Physical limitations - None, I'm about 5'11 200 lbs with a large build and not recoil sensitive (I love shooting the .44 Magnum and .45)

Accuracy - I'm not looking for sniper accuracy. But something that generally shoots well with iron sights would be nice.

Blistex · 09-13-2004, 02:48 AM

K-98 and Garand are my two fav's to shoot with ironsights. Both are very accurate and powerful.

Kurtz · 09-13-2004, 07:24 AM

The Garand is going to cost too much and the K-98 is going to be lacking in the accuracy department and have much more expensive ammo. If you are looking for MOA or lower accuracy at 100yds in that price range, I think you're gonna have problems finding anything.

tropple · 09-13-2004, 09:00 AM

SA's garand is $1348/78. It's pretty nice. But If I were going spend that much, I'd spend little more and get the M-1A. $1350 is a hell of a lot to spend for an M1 thumb.

There used to be a civilian marksmanship program that let you score a garand for $50, but I think they finally ran out.

I think your best bet is a serious perusal of shotgun news (http://www.shotgunnews.com/). I don't think you will be able to find a new semi-auto rifle in that price range, but you might find a new import bolt action.

Also, try a local gun dealer. A lot of gun shops take consignments and you might get lucky.

Big Cholla · 09-13-2004, 10:17 AM

Your only limitation is going to be initial price and then cost of the ammo. Military ammo for the 5.56mm round is dirt cheap and can be shot in rifles chambered for the .223 Rem. cartridge. You can purchase any of the following chambered for .223 Rem.: single shot, bolt action, semi-auto and even an over/under with a shotgun barrel/rifle barrel combo. What ever you select could be equiped with a nice peep sight for not much money. If you like the idea of the .44 mag or the .45 colt in a rifle, Winchester has chambered both in their Model 94 at times. They are faily accurate, but the ammo is very expensive unless you handload. Military .308 Win. (7.62mm) is also fairly cheap but still runs about twice of the 5.56mm rounds. There is a couple of arms importers that are rebarreling various military mausers to .308. They aren't great rifles, but aren't bad either. They usually come with good peep sights. As mentioned before, the British SMLE is a pretty good war surplus rifle if the barrel is OK and the ammo is about the same price as the military 7.62mm.

What ever you select, learn to clean the barrel properly and then keep it clean. Wear hearing protection and eye protection at all times. Learn the use of a sling while shooting. Find a friendly instructor and get some pointers. You will be surprised at how much a correct stance (shooting position), trigger control and sight alignment will do for your accuracy.

cuervo · 09-13-2004, 11:59 AM

CMP is alive and well, but Garand prices have gone up:
http://www.odcmp.com/

Not really specifying what you're looking for, a good hunting rifle for the money would be a Savage.

Looking for old US military, you <i>might</i> find a 1903 or 1917 for that price. K98s would be a good choice, too, if you don't mind shooting corrosive ammo since that is what most surplus 8mm will be.

tropple · 09-14-2004, 02:59 AM

Holy cow. I'll say. But even so, $500 for a very used Garand is still an okay price.

I noticed that the 1903's are only $400. Seems like a good deal if you're tough enough to plink with 30.06 ;-)

Blistex · 09-14-2004, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtz

K-98 is going to be lacking in the accuracy department and have much more expensive ammo.

The average K-98 in good condition will stand up well against any modern bolt action rifle. Hell pretty well every bold action rifle in the world is a deravitive of the K-98 in some way!

Saying that the K-98 isn't accurate is like a guy who drives a Neon saying that the McLaren F1 is slow!

Plus the US is full of cheap ammo for the K-98! Go to any gun show and pick ammo for $0.25 a round! There is still a huge assload of surplus stuff still avaliable, plus newer european ammo can still be had for under $0.50 a round.

Unless you were drunk at the time please don't post any more in this section of the forums since comments like that will only convince people that you're some Counterstrike goon who thinks he has a clue!

A testament to the ability of the K-98 was that the Israelis used them up until the early 90's as one of their primary sniper rifles. In 8mm and 7.62mm.

BoomTruck · 09-15-2004, 12:05 PM

Savage makes some fine rifles worth the money.

Now that I've said that, I'll wait for the Model 700 crowd to attack me.

Kurtz · 09-15-2004, 05:07 PM

Modern ammo is not widely available in 8mm mauser. It's just not. And it WILL be more expensive than comparable quality ammo in other calibers. And I didn't say it was inaccutate, I said it would be lacking. You can do much better, particularly in light of the fact that many (perhaps most) K-98s out there are in poor condition. Pitted bores are very common in surplus 98s, and their accuracy is not up to par with many other bolt-action rifles out there in the surplus world. Your post hurt my feelings, also.

solo2020 · 09-15-2004, 06:19 PM

A testament to the ability of the K-98 was that the Israelis used them up until the early 90's as one of their primary sniper rifles. In 8mm and 7.62mm.

Isn't it ironic as fuck that the Jewish amry would use a Nazi era rifle?

tropple · 09-16-2004, 03:35 AM

You can score a K-98 here:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...ser_Rifle.html

whocarz · 09-16-2004, 04:41 AM

I don't know if it's legal in Kalifornia, but the SKS is a good, cheap, reliable gun for plinking. You can pick up a Yugo SKS for about 100 bucks.

Kurtz · 09-16-2004, 04:58 AM

If it's a surplus rifle, you want to order it from someone you really trust or examine in closely before you buy it. Make sure that the bore condition is good and that the headspacing is safe.

And I'd be suprised if the Israiles (and yes, that is ironic as fuck) were using mismached rebuilt k-98s with a scope simply screwed onto the top. I'm sure they were only using the pick of the litter, then doing some accuracy work on them. Think of the German sniper variations of the k-98. Not exactly representive of the rest of the guns, were they? Our 1903s, same deal.

whocarz · 09-16-2004, 05:17 AM

I'm pretty sure that the Israelis used some WW2 German tanks and halftracks for their armored formations as well.

Blistex · 09-17-2004, 02:35 AM

WHAT!?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtz

Modern ammo is not widely available in 8mm mauser. It's just not.

Companies Currently manufacturing 8mm Mauser ammunition:
Winchester
Remmington
Federal
Igman
Mitchell
Conley
Hornady
PMC
Olympic
That's how many I could find in 15 seconds!

Quote:

And it WILL be more expensive than comparable quality ammo in other calibers.

CheaperThanDirt.com is selling surplus 8mm mauser ammo, 70 rounds for $4.29 ($0.06 a round).

Quote:

And I didn't say it was inaccutate, I said it would be lacking. You can do much better, particularly in light of the fact that many (perhaps most) K-98s out there are in poor condition. Pitted bores are very common in surplus 98s, and their accuracy is not up to par with many other bolt-action rifles out there in the surplus world.

http://www.mitchellsales.com/ Perfect condition bores avaliable here.
http://www.marstar.ca/ Perfect Bores here as well!

Both of these sites have thousands of German, swedish, and Yugoslavian mausers for sale! Every single one just as accurate as any bolt action rifle you will pick up off the shelf of you're local sporting goods store. Plus there are mausers for sale at pretty well every gun shop, gun show, and online gunboard. Thousands of shops, hundreds of stores, and dozens of sites. I'd love to see this statistic about the pitted K-98's since I've personally inspected over 40 and have yet to see one that's pitted or has any manner of bore/muzzle damage! People that own Milsurps treat them like pampered children.

For the love of god, stop acting like an expert in a subject you know nothing about!

tropple · 09-17-2004, 03:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurtz

And I'd be suprised if the Israiles (and yes, that is ironic as fuck) were using mismached rebuilt k-98s with a scope simply screwed onto the top. I'm sure they were only using the pick of the litter, then doing some accuracy work on them. Think of the German sniper variations of the k-98. Not exactly representive of the rest of the guns, were they? Our 1903s, same deal.

Huh? Kurtz, please stop. The K-98 will last forever. Rifles don't disintegrate. A rifle used for sniping won't suffer from headspacing or pitting problems as it may only have a few hundred rounds a year through it.

If you'd bothered to take a close look at that reservist in the pic, you'd see that that scope is not something just screwed on and mismatched.

The surplus weapons from a reputable dealer are checked. That's how the dealer remains reputable. Otherwise, he ends up out of business. This isn't like selling used cars to high school kids.

For your further edification:

edit: http://www.isayeret.com/weapons/sws/k98/k98.htm

and, edit:

Weapons and gear
Israeli police officers are obliged to carry personal firearm while in duty. This is because the Israeli police duties include also counter terror and each police officer must be able to supply emergency reaction in case of terrorist attack. Another reason is that there are threats of kidnapping officers by Palestinian terrorist groups such as Hamas or Fatah's Tanzim.
Each policeman is armed with a pistol (handgun) which he usually also carries home and off-duty. Also, each patrol car must have at least one long-arm (i.e rifle). Police volunteers are usually armed with M1 Carbine, which they return to the police's armory after they finish their duty (they do not take the rifle home). Volunteers who have gun license may use their own personal handgun as personal defence weapon for their police duty, in condition that the gun's type and ammunition is authorized by the police.
Heavy armaments such as assult rifle, sniper rifles and non-lethal weapon are assigned according to activity and not on personal basis.
MAGAV policemen, however, carry an M16 assult rifle as standart personal weapon and can carry it home while off-duty (like regular infantry on the Israeli Defence Forces.

Standart isssued rifles (non-combat):
* * M1 Carbine (also standart issued weapon of the MASHAZ - Civilian Guard)
* * M1A1 Carbine (modernized M1 Carbine with folding stock) *
* M1 Carbine bullpup
* * Magal (micro-Galil)

Standart issued assult rifle (combat): *
* M-16 assult rifle , Colt Commando , CAR15 , M4 Carbine * * Galil assult rifle

Sniper rifles
* * Mauser SP66
* * Mauser K98
* * M14 (rifle)
* * Galatz - Galil Tzalafim (Galil Sniper version)

creole king · 09-17-2004, 10:56 AM

Remington ADL 30-06 is a good entry level gun with lots of load variants. I picked one up a "mega-sports" store for $319. The scope is going to break your budget, but the gun will keep it's value more than a Remington 710 or Savage.

That said, I hear Savage makes some decent entry level rifles.

tropple · 09-17-2004, 11:02 AM

I like Remingtons. I have a lot of friends who used BDLs in the service. I had a M700 30-06 ADL a long time ago. Good, solid gun, but a real torture to fire before I added a recoil pad.

cd45 · 09-20-2004, 04:35 PM

I am going to piss off the whole group now. You might want to check out New England Firearms and H&R1871. They are different parts of the wame company. They make a very nice single shot rifle in any caliber that you could possibly want. They are inexpensive and well made. The rifle calibers come with a scope mount already on them, the pistol caliber rifles come with open sights. Check them out.

tropple · 09-21-2004, 03:14 AM

Pissed off? Why? I've never heard of anything wrong with H&R's weapons.

BoomTruck · 09-25-2004, 08:37 PM

Nothing at all wrong with an H&R. Well, maybe with their very light 10-gauge. (Ow. A lot.)

Oh, and please don't dismiss a Savage as an 'entry level' rifle. It tends to annoy us Savage owners.

arawn · 09-26-2004, 11:52 AM

Remington's 710 has a retail of just over $400 and comes with a premounted Bushnell scope.

I know this is a little more than you were planning to spend, but it looks like a lot of rifle for the money. It comes in 270, 7mm, 30-06, and 300WinMag.

Just an idea.

Later,
B.

Kodega · 09-27-2004, 08:06 PM

Mosin-Nagants tend to be cheap because there are literally millions of them. I've seen them go for as low as $80 at some gun shops. Can't say how good they are as I don't own one though.

09-12-2004, 01:53 PM	#1 (permalink)
solo2020 Tilted Location: Los Angeles	I need some help choosing a High Powered Rifle I live in California. This eliminates 1/2 of all the fairly inexpensive high powered rifles out in the market. I'm looking at spening $200-$300 max for a decent high powered rifle. I know this seriously limits my choices. But I would not mind owning an older WWII rifle. Remember, I live in California, so I can't buy a Eastern European AK for $250 (WHICH SOME MID-WEST STATES HAVE !!!)

09-12-2004, 08:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
kinsaj Psycho Location: somewhere out there	I would go with a mauser or a good nagant with a scope if accuracy is more important. But dont get me wrong... my mauser is still VERY accurate, and I love it. As Big Cholla said, more info would help. __________________ boom

09-13-2004, 09:00 AM	#8 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	SA's garand is $1348/78. It's pretty nice. But If I were going spend that much, I'd spend little more and get the M-1A. $1350 is a hell of a lot to spend for an M1 thumb. There used to be a civilian marksmanship program that let you score a garand for $50, but I think they finally ran out. I think your best bet is a serious perusal of shotgun news (http://www.shotgunnews.com/). I don't think you will be able to find a new semi-auto rifle in that price range, but you might find a new import bolt action. Also, try a local gun dealer. A lot of gun shops take consignments and you might get lucky. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-14-2004, 02:59 AM	#11 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	Holy cow. I'll say. But even so, $500 for a very used Garand is still an okay price. I noticed that the 1903's are only $400. Seems like a good deal if you're tough enough to plink with 30.06 ;-) __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-15-2004, 12:05 PM	#13 (permalink)
BoomTruck Insane Location: On a gravel road rough enought to knock fillings out of teeth.	Savage makes some fine rifles worth the money. Now that I've said that, I'll wait for the Model 700 crowd to attack me. __________________ Judge me all you want, but keep the verdict to yourself.

09-12-2004, 02:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
Kurtz Upright	How high powered do you want? Are you counting 8mm mauser, .303 british, and 30-06, or are you looking for something bigger? And what do you plan on using it for?

09-12-2004, 04:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
Big Cholla Upright Location: Las Vegas, Nevada	You leave a lot for us to guess. What do you want to accomplish with your new rifle? Do you have any physical limitations? What is your size? Are you recoil sensitive? How much accuracy do you need? Gun shops are a good source for reliable and accurate used rifles. War surplus rifles are very reliable, but not very accurate. Bolt action rifles are generally more accurate and reliable than semi-auto actions. The British SMLE bolt action is ugly but very accuate and reliable if the barrel is not fouled or damaged. You can hunt deer and hogs with it in complete confidence. The US Springfield is a better bolt action, but the used prices are out of sight now. Find a widow selling off her husband's guns and buy a Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage in a caliber suitable for your use. After you have your "new to you" rifle, have a gunsmith check it out. Often, the actions are loose in the stock, the trigger has been messed with and/or the sights are loose or all three. Also, many people do not know how to clean a rifle barrel properly, so they don't! Get the gunsmith to show you the proper technique and the proper tools/chemicals. Barrel fouling is the primary cause of inaccuracy. I have bought many inaccurate rifles to find that the only problem was a copper fouled barrel.

09-13-2004, 02:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Blistex Psycho Location: Tiger I Turret	K-98 and Garand are my two fav's to shoot with ironsights. Both are very accurate and powerful.

09-13-2004, 07:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
Kurtz Upright	The Garand is going to cost too much and the K-98 is going to be lacking in the accuracy department and have much more expensive ammo. If you are looking for MOA or lower accuracy at 100yds in that price range, I think you're gonna have problems finding anything.

09-13-2004, 10:17 AM	#9 (permalink)
Big Cholla Upright Location: Las Vegas, Nevada	Your only limitation is going to be initial price and then cost of the ammo. Military ammo for the 5.56mm round is dirt cheap and can be shot in rifles chambered for the .223 Rem. cartridge. You can purchase any of the following chambered for .223 Rem.: single shot, bolt action, semi-auto and even an over/under with a shotgun barrel/rifle barrel combo. What ever you select could be equiped with a nice peep sight for not much money. If you like the idea of the .44 mag or the .45 colt in a rifle, Winchester has chambered both in their Model 94 at times. They are faily accurate, but the ammo is very expensive unless you handload. Military .308 Win. (7.62mm) is also fairly cheap but still runs about twice of the 5.56mm rounds. There is a couple of arms importers that are rebarreling various military mausers to .308. They aren't great rifles, but aren't bad either. They usually come with good peep sights. As mentioned before, the British SMLE is a pretty good war surplus rifle if the barrel is OK and the ammo is about the same price as the military 7.62mm. What ever you select, learn to clean the barrel properly and then keep it clean. Wear hearing protection and eye protection at all times. Learn the use of a sling while shooting. Find a friendly instructor and get some pointers. You will be surprised at how much a correct stance (shooting position), trigger control and sight alignment will do for your accuracy.

09-13-2004, 11:59 AM	#10 (permalink)
cuervo Tilted Location: NC	CMP is alive and well, but Garand prices have gone up: http://www.odcmp.com/ Not really specifying what you're looking for, a good hunting rifle for the money would be a Savage. Looking for old US military, you <i>might</i> find a 1903 or 1917 for that price. K98s would be a good choice, too, if you don't mind shooting corrosive ammo since that is what most surplus 8mm will be.

09-15-2004, 05:07 PM	#14 (permalink)
Kurtz Upright	Modern ammo is not widely available in 8mm mauser. It's just not. And it WILL be more expensive than comparable quality ammo in other calibers. And I didn't say it was inaccutate, I said it would be lacking. You can do much better, particularly in light of the fact that many (perhaps most) K-98s out there are in poor condition. Pitted bores are very common in surplus 98s, and their accuracy is not up to par with many other bolt-action rifles out there in the surplus world. Your post hurt my feelings, also.

09-15-2004, 06:19 PM	#15 (permalink)
solo2020 Tilted Location: Los Angeles	A testament to the ability of the K-98 was that the Israelis used them up until the early 90's as one of their primary sniper rifles. In 8mm and 7.62mm. Isn't it ironic as fuck that the Jewish amry would use a Nazi era rifle?

09-16-2004, 03:35 AM	#16 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	You can score a K-98 here: http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/W...ser_Rifle.html __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-16-2004, 04:41 AM	#17 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	I don't know if it's legal in Kalifornia, but the SKS is a good, cheap, reliable gun for plinking. You can pick up a Yugo SKS for about 100 bucks. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

09-16-2004, 04:58 AM	#18 (permalink)
Kurtz Upright	If it's a surplus rifle, you want to order it from someone you really trust or examine in closely before you buy it. Make sure that the bore condition is good and that the headspacing is safe. And I'd be suprised if the Israiles (and yes, that is ironic as fuck) were using mismached rebuilt k-98s with a scope simply screwed onto the top. I'm sure they were only using the pick of the litter, then doing some accuracy work on them. Think of the German sniper variations of the k-98. Not exactly representive of the rest of the guns, were they? Our 1903s, same deal.

09-16-2004, 05:17 AM	#19 (permalink)
whocarz Jarhead Location: Colorado	I'm pretty sure that the Israelis used some WW2 German tanks and halftracks for their armored formations as well. __________________ If there exists anything mightier than destiny, then it is the courage to face destiny unflinchingly. -Geibel Despise not death, but welcome it, for nature wills it like all else. -Marcus Aurelius Come on, you sons of bitches! Do you want to live forever? -GySgt. Daniel J. "Dan" Daly

09-17-2004, 10:56 AM	#22 (permalink)
creole king Upright	Remington ADL 30-06 is a good entry level gun with lots of load variants. I picked one up a "mega-sports" store for $319. The scope is going to break your budget, but the gun will keep it's value more than a Remington 710 or Savage. That said, I hear Savage makes some decent entry level rifles.

09-17-2004, 11:02 AM	#23 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	I like Remingtons. I have a lot of friends who used BDLs in the service. I had a M700 30-06 ADL a long time ago. Good, solid gun, but a real torture to fire before I added a recoil pad. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-20-2004, 04:35 PM	#24 (permalink)
cd45 Upright	I am going to piss off the whole group now. You might want to check out New England Firearms and H&R1871. They are different parts of the wame company. They make a very nice single shot rifle in any caliber that you could possibly want. They are inexpensive and well made. The rifle calibers come with a scope mount already on them, the pistol caliber rifles come with open sights. Check them out.

09-21-2004, 03:14 AM	#25 (permalink)
tropple Junkie	Pissed off? Why? I've never heard of anything wrong with H&R's weapons. __________________ +++++++++++Boom!

09-25-2004, 08:37 PM	#26 (permalink)
BoomTruck Insane Location: On a gravel road rough enought to knock fillings out of teeth.	Nothing at all wrong with an H&R. Well, maybe with their very light 10-gauge. (Ow. A lot.) Oh, and please don't dismiss a Savage as an 'entry level' rifle. It tends to annoy us Savage owners. __________________ Judge me all you want, but keep the verdict to yourself.

09-26-2004, 11:52 AM	#27 (permalink)
arawn Upright Location: San Diego, CA	Remington's 710 has a retail of just over $400 and comes with a premounted Bushnell scope. I know this is a little more than you were planning to spend, but it looks like a lot of rifle for the money. It comes in 270, 7mm, 30-06, and 300WinMag. Just an idea. Later, B. __________________ JMJ Factory team San Diego, CA

09-27-2004, 08:06 PM	#28 (permalink)
Kodega Crazy	Mosin-Nagants tend to be cheap because there are literally millions of them. I've seen them go for as low as $80 at some gun shops. Can't say how good they are as I don't own one though.