SCA - Tilted Forum Project Discussion Community

CheeseButtons · 06-09-2004, 10:00 PM

Well I attended the local SCA park meet tonight. I haven't gone in like 2 years, but I was itchin for some sword play, so I got in touch w/ my old roomate in phoenix, and us 2 +his current roomate grabbed the shinai's and headed to the park. Got in some warm up time, I hadn't really fought anyone in a long time, so I am very rusty....I'm not that good to begin with. Anyways, took part in a little CTF melee's...which ended up frustrating me more than anything. A shinai is simply too short and too harsh of a weapon for this type of battle. The field is rulled by the pvc staffs. Plus when you hit too hard (against a weapon) with a shinai it is loud...and they frown on that. Fact is, you have to be forceful and aggressive against a staff bearer when all you have is a shinai. Not to mention the fact you aren't allowed to stab unless it has a padded tip. *sigh* perhaps I'll stick to 1 v 1 battles.

Dave

Moonduck · 06-10-2004, 11:09 AM

PVC staves? No loud contact? Where are you playing at?

Now, I've not been active for a few years, but my friends still are, and things have not changed hereabouts. The local/regional mentality is that any strike must be sufficient to have penetrated chainmail. From the work that the leading fighter in the overall region has done has produced the Bowling Ball Test. In this test, you put a bowling ball (pref 16lb) on top of a handy pell, and swat it. If it is sufficient to knock said bowling ball off the top of the pell, it is hard enough, generally, to punch chainmail. Not a scientific test by any stretch of the imagination, but it works.

Given this mentality, armorcraft is taken serious, with 14ga mild or 16ga stainless being the norm, and noone with any ability to feel pain wearing leather. Additionally, it means that fights are heavy and fairly rough, with the big guys generally doing better, the exception being the tall fellows what generate tremendous leverage via technique.

A good friend of mine, of mediocre ability like myself, moved from my area (SE VA) to Texas, and took up with the locals. When they had to move him from fighting against men-at-arm to squires, and then to their knights, they started to ask questions. They also thought he was silly for basing his choice of armour from the Borrow Bin on what was heaviest. Sure, he nearly collapsed from heat exhaustion his first day out, but boy did he kick much butt (yes, the fact that he didn't have his own armor should tell you that he wasn't a serious player).

We did not use PVC staves. They would not have stood up to local standards. Furniture-grade rattan was the order of the day, and no full-crank power shot, please. The half-crank shots that the guys what were good would use were sufficient enough to lift you up off the ground. Shinai weren't used unless you really were just training someone to use a two-hander, and it was done with gambeson only so that you could properly feel it. In actual play, it was more furniture grade rattan, 2.25"-2.5" diameter or so.

Upon reflection, it is a wonder no one gets hurt, and I boggle at why I played with these obviously insane people for as long as I did.

I do recall one day where we had some new-ish guy not wanting to call shots properly. I'd swatted him three times in the steel pot and he kept calling light. One of our squires was watching, and I could see him starting to grimace. I got over it after I gonged him solidly and he called light, only to leg me moderately hard. I went down to one knee as prescribed in such case, and were told to lay on. Frank, the squire, had a look of concern, as he saw me getting serious. Denius, the rhino-hider in question, starts to try and step over my guard, so I pull back and cranked him hard right across the side of his left thigh (downward angle to, mean of me). He fell to the ground hollering because I'd dished his 14ga wrap-plate on the backside of his thigh and it hurt an ickle bit. Dished his actual greave as well, and wrecked the buckles on his straps (who puts their buckles close to the plate? Stupid!)

I felt bad when they had to cut the straps to get it off of him. Fully expected to get bitched out for hammering him like that, but Frank's only comment was to tell him, "Next time, you might not want to say 'light' on those bell-ringers".

Lemme tell you, wearing 80lbs of steel and padding, and then swinging 7lbs of sword and 18lbs of shield, all the while some 300lb gorilla (like me) is trying to take your head off with a mildly padded poleaxe is good exercise! In the end, my favorite weapon was the axe. We had a galvanized rubber headed axe ona short rattan shaft. I caught some ribbing for using such a weedy looking weapon. The deal is that the first shot you take is a full power shot to the center of you opponents shield. When they feel that rubber axehead crash into the shield arm, and the arm is slammed into their body, they begin to be a bit nervous. You have to play more of a head-game when you give up as much weapon mobility to a swaord-wielder when you tote an axe. Fun though.

*showing his barbarian roots*

CheeseButtons · 06-10-2004, 08:54 PM

Hmm...well looks like you are about 100x more serious than me and my friends. We don't partake in any of the serious stuff. We just go to the end of the park with all the goth/nerd type people and form two lines of about 15 people each and fight. All light weaponry with usually little to no armor.

this is in Phoenix btw...or atenveldt as you may know it

krazykemist · 06-10-2004, 10:16 PM

With those weapons and little armor this sounds more like my LARP combat rather than SCA.

Fire · 06-10-2004, 11:47 PM

Hail and well met- I live here in Calontir, and tommorow morning will be meeting about 3000 scadians for the anual war of lillies- 9 days of field battles, parties every night, and booze- not a fighter myself, as the steel in my arm would realy fuck me if it was ever re broken, but I sell em swords and weapons and generally enjoy myself quite a bit...... just have to hope for good weather......

saw some boffer combat last year- not all that serious, but more fun than cracked ribs-

and me and my friends stick to boffers for just that reason....

Moonduck · 06-11-2004, 06:53 PM

Phoenix splins it, bro. I've been to phoenix and there is NO WAY IN HELL that you would find me in real armour in Phoenix. Rock on with your PVC staves too, as there is no way I would want some gorilla swinging a rattan staff at me when wearing no armour in Phoenix =)

And I never received nor gave any broken bones, nor did anyone I played with. There were quite a few deep bruises, and other soft tissue injuries, but nothing you couldn't shake off and come back next week from. Great group =)

CheeseButtons · 06-11-2004, 09:22 PM

My forearms have been killing me the last two days, haven't seen so much swordplay in a long time.
I do like the group stuff...there is a real sense of comradory (sp?), and everyone seems to be accepting. It's fun to be able to go out there and be a nerd and nobody laughs at you, unlike my roomates who scoff at my amusement of SCA.

Moonduck · 06-13-2004, 09:39 AM

Melees are so much fun! We rarely had enough folks show up for em, but when we did get 11-12 people at Fighte rPractice, there would always be shield wall practice =)

Great fun!

06-09-2004, 10:00 PM	#1 (permalink)
CheeseButtons Crazy Location: 1000 miles from nowhere	SCA Well I attended the local SCA park meet tonight. I haven't gone in like 2 years, but I was itchin for some sword play, so I got in touch w/ my old roomate in phoenix, and us 2 +his current roomate grabbed the shinai's and headed to the park. Got in some warm up time, I hadn't really fought anyone in a long time, so I am very rusty....I'm not that good to begin with. Anyways, took part in a little CTF melee's...which ended up frustrating me more than anything. A shinai is simply too short and too harsh of a weapon for this type of battle. The field is rulled by the pvc staffs. Plus when you hit too hard (against a weapon) with a shinai it is loud...and they frown on that. Fact is, you have to be forceful and aggressive against a staff bearer when all you have is a shinai. Not to mention the fact you aren't allowed to stab unless it has a padded tip. sigh perhaps I'll stick to 1 v 1 battles. Dave __________________ Sorrow is better than laughter, because a sad face is good for the heart. -Ecclesiastes 7:3

06-10-2004, 08:54 PM	#3 (permalink)
CheeseButtons Crazy Location: 1000 miles from nowhere	Hmm...well looks like you are about 100x more serious than me and my friends. We don't partake in any of the serious stuff. We just go to the end of the park with all the goth/nerd type people and form two lines of about 15 people each and fight. All light weaponry with usually little to no armor. this is in Phoenix btw...or atenveldt as you may know it __________________ Sorrow is better than laughter, because a sad face is good for the heart. -Ecclesiastes 7:3

06-10-2004, 10:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
krazykemist Psycho Location: New Orleans	With those weapons and little armor this sounds more like my LARP combat rather than SCA. __________________ "Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself." -- Tolstoy

06-10-2004, 11:47 PM	#5 (permalink)
Fire Warrior Smith Location: missouri	Hail and well met- I live here in Calontir, and tommorow morning will be meeting about 3000 scadians for the anual war of lillies- 9 days of field battles, parties every night, and booze- not a fighter myself, as the steel in my arm would realy fuck me if it was ever re broken, but I sell em swords and weapons and generally enjoy myself quite a bit...... just have to hope for good weather...... saw some boffer combat last year- not all that serious, but more fun than cracked ribs- and me and my friends stick to boffers for just that reason.... __________________ Thought the harder, Heart the bolder, Mood the more as our might lessens

06-11-2004, 09:22 PM	#7 (permalink)
CheeseButtons Crazy Location: 1000 miles from nowhere	My forearms have been killing me the last two days, haven't seen so much swordplay in a long time. I do like the group stuff...there is a real sense of comradory (sp?), and everyone seems to be accepting. It's fun to be able to go out there and be a nerd and nobody laughs at you, unlike my roomates who scoff at my amusement of SCA. __________________ Sorrow is better than laughter, because a sad face is good for the heart. -Ecclesiastes 7:3

06-10-2004, 11:09 AM	#2 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	PVC staves? No loud contact? Where are you playing at? Now, I've not been active for a few years, but my friends still are, and things have not changed hereabouts. The local/regional mentality is that any strike must be sufficient to have penetrated chainmail. From the work that the leading fighter in the overall region has done has produced the Bowling Ball Test. In this test, you put a bowling ball (pref 16lb) on top of a handy pell, and swat it. If it is sufficient to knock said bowling ball off the top of the pell, it is hard enough, generally, to punch chainmail. Not a scientific test by any stretch of the imagination, but it works. Given this mentality, armorcraft is taken serious, with 14ga mild or 16ga stainless being the norm, and noone with any ability to feel pain wearing leather. Additionally, it means that fights are heavy and fairly rough, with the big guys generally doing better, the exception being the tall fellows what generate tremendous leverage via technique. A good friend of mine, of mediocre ability like myself, moved from my area (SE VA) to Texas, and took up with the locals. When they had to move him from fighting against men-at-arm to squires, and then to their knights, they started to ask questions. They also thought he was silly for basing his choice of armour from the Borrow Bin on what was heaviest. Sure, he nearly collapsed from heat exhaustion his first day out, but boy did he kick much butt (yes, the fact that he didn't have his own armor should tell you that he wasn't a serious player). We did not use PVC staves. They would not have stood up to local standards. Furniture-grade rattan was the order of the day, and no full-crank power shot, please. The half-crank shots that the guys what were good would use were sufficient enough to lift you up off the ground. Shinai weren't used unless you really were just training someone to use a two-hander, and it was done with gambeson only so that you could properly feel it. In actual play, it was more furniture grade rattan, 2.25"-2.5" diameter or so. Upon reflection, it is a wonder no one gets hurt, and I boggle at why I played with these obviously insane people for as long as I did. I do recall one day where we had some new-ish guy not wanting to call shots properly. I'd swatted him three times in the steel pot and he kept calling light. One of our squires was watching, and I could see him starting to grimace. I got over it after I gonged him solidly and he called light, only to leg me moderately hard. I went down to one knee as prescribed in such case, and were told to lay on. Frank, the squire, had a look of concern, as he saw me getting serious. Denius, the rhino-hider in question, starts to try and step over my guard, so I pull back and cranked him hard right across the side of his left thigh (downward angle to, mean of me). He fell to the ground hollering because I'd dished his 14ga wrap-plate on the backside of his thigh and it hurt an ickle bit. Dished his actual greave as well, and wrecked the buckles on his straps (who puts their buckles close to the plate? Stupid!) I felt bad when they had to cut the straps to get it off of him. Fully expected to get bitched out for hammering him like that, but Frank's only comment was to tell him, "Next time, you might not want to say 'light' on those bell-ringers". Lemme tell you, wearing 80lbs of steel and padding, and then swinging 7lbs of sword and 18lbs of shield, all the while some 300lb gorilla (like me) is trying to take your head off with a mildly padded poleaxe is good exercise! In the end, my favorite weapon was the axe. We had a galvanized rubber headed axe ona short rattan shaft. I caught some ribbing for using such a weedy looking weapon. The deal is that the first shot you take is a full power shot to the center of you opponents shield. When they feel that rubber axehead crash into the shield arm, and the arm is slammed into their body, they begin to be a bit nervous. You have to play more of a head-game when you give up as much weapon mobility to a swaord-wielder when you tote an axe. Fun though. showing his barbarian roots

06-11-2004, 06:53 PM	#6 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Phoenix splins it, bro. I've been to phoenix and there is NO WAY IN HELL that you would find me in real armour in Phoenix. Rock on with your PVC staves too, as there is no way I would want some gorilla swinging a rattan staff at me when wearing no armour in Phoenix =) And I never received nor gave any broken bones, nor did anyone I played with. There were quite a few deep bruises, and other soft tissue injuries, but nothing you couldn't shake off and come back next week from. Great group =)

06-13-2004, 09:39 AM	#8 (permalink)
Moonduck Junkie Location: SE USA	Melees are so much fun! We rarely had enough folks show up for em, but when we did get 11-12 people at Fighte rPractice, there would always be shield wall practice =) Great fun!